Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. She may or may not be aware that the governing authority of the University of Limerick at a recent meeting failed to appoint a chancellor as set out in legislation. That is a pretty serious situation. To the best of my knowledge it is the first time it has happened in the history of the State and certainly under the new legislation.

There is a requirement in law that two thirds of the governing authority voting must ratify a name that is put forward. It is not as if a number of names are put forward. Only one name is put forward but it requires a two thirds majority of the authority. The candidate put forward failed to reach the two thirds majority. That leaves the university without a chancellor. It is a really important university in the region I come from. About 1,800 people work there and it has more than 17,000 students. It is a university that has grown in stature internationally and in its capacity to meet the needs of students not just in the region but throughout the country. The university has had its issues and difficulties over the years but it has been operating really well. This issue I raise is a blight and stain on the character of the university and is something which needs to be resolved quickly.

I am concerned, based on conversations I have had with people in the university, that there is an effort now being made, which would seem bizarre in the extreme, to revisit the decision that was made by the governing authority, that somehow the same name may be put back before the committee, and that a level of intense lobbying will begin to try to browbeat people who made, in good judgment, a decision not to appoint the individual concerned. There is some history that has been alluded to by a former Member of this House, Shane Ross, about the appointment of the same individual to another board of the State where there was intense lobbying, up to and including telephone calls to the Taoiseach at the time, Leo Varadkar, to secure a particular position for that individual. There is real concern among members of the authority and staff of the university that the same will apply here, that a level of behind-the-scenes lobbying, cajoling and jostling will be deployed to achieve this position for the individual concerned. That would be wrong.

The concern at the moment is that there is still one individual to be appointed externally by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. I understand there is a process under way through the Public Appointments Service, PAS, but the Minister will be the final arbiter of that. The concern of some within the university is that the Minister and Government will be lobbied to appoint somebody who will be favourably disposed towards the person who has already been rejected. That would be wrong. I want an assurance from the Minister of State that will not happen.

A decision has been taken by the governing authority not to appoint the individual concerned. In my view, it would be appropriate that all sides would move on and accept the wishes of the people concerned, and that there would be no attempt to cajole, jostle or try to find another way around this. That would not be in the best interests of the university or of a cohesive approach at board level. The board needs to come together around an individual in whom it has faith and trust for the benefit of the university. The sooner that happens, the better, and I am interested in hearing what the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has to say on this matter.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for raising this issue and for his contribution. Both the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, are in the Dáil Chamber this morning for oral questions and have asked me to take this matter on their behalf.

The University of Limerick advised the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science that the university's new governing authority took office on 1 October in compliance with the Higher Education Authority Act 2022. The university further advised that the governing authority held its first meeting on 8 October and, under the terms of the legislation, appointed an external member as interim chairperson pending the appointment of the chairperson.

Under the Universities Act 1997, there is a requirement for a majority vote of at least two thirds of the members of the governing authority to elect the chairperson. The Department understands that the required two thirds majority was not attained. In accordance with legislative provisions, it is a matter for the University of Limerick to appoint the chancellor of the university. The Minister of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has no role in the appointment of the chairperson of a governing authority in a university.

The University of Limerick has corresponded with the Minister to advise that the interim chairperson remains in position and that the governing authority will continue to exercise its statutory and governance functions regarding the university pending the appointment of the chairperson. It is really important to state again that the Minister has no role whatsoever in this process. The Minister is legally prohibited from intervening.

The Department understands the University of Limerick has appointed 18 of the 19 governing authority members. A Public Appointments Service process is currently in progress for the selection of the vacant ministerial nominee.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for the comprehensive response, but I am concerned about one line, which says it is really important to state the Minister has no role whatsoever in this process. The Minister has a role in appointing three people who are being assessed by the Public Appointments Service.The Minister will select those nominees. One of them will be appointed immediately and two will be appointed at a later stage. The person he appoints could ultimately be the decider of that battle.

I want the Minister to confirm he will appoint an entirely independent person and will not be open to external interference or lobbying of the kind that went on in the past in respect of the same individual and another board, up to and including calls to the then Taoiseach. Shane Ross alludes to it in his recently published book. He alludes to the pressure he was put under to appoint this individual to another State board. People from the university have expressed to me their deep concerns regarding the potential for external interference in the process of appointing the next individual to the board, in the knowledge that the person in question would come with riding instructions. That is a real fear that is not based on superstition but, rather, on recent facts relating to another board but the same individual. I accept that the Minister of State is not in a position to give this commitment, but I want the Minister and the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, to outline a clear and direct position to the effect that they will not be open to external interference in the appointment of an independent person to the board and will not countenance any level of interference that might materialise.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for raising this matter. In accordance with legislative provisions, it is a matter for the University of Limerick to appoint its chancellor. That is not the main issue the Senator is raising. The requirement for a majority vote of at least two thirds of the members of the governing authority to elect the chairperson is not new. It has been in place since 1997 under the Universities Act, with no previous issues identified. The legislation also sets out that a governing authority shall regulate, by standing orders or otherwise, its procedure and business. The Government cannot and would not wish to intervene in such matters. The legislation is clear on this matter. The Minister expects an update from the university in due course.

On the point raised by the Senator in respect of nine other external members, three of whom are to be nominated by the Minister, a Public Appointments Service process is currently in progress for the selection of ministerial nominees. One nominee will fill the immediate vacancy and the two remaining nominees will be appointed when the term of office of the current nominees ends on 31 March 2024. The assessment meeting is scheduled for next week.