Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I remind Members that under new procedures approved by the House, the combined speeches of the proposer and seconder should not exceed 16 minutes and all other Senators should not exceed six minutes. Before I call Senator Warfield, I welcome to the Public Gallery Mr. Edmund Lynch, Mr. Martin Barnes and Mr. Kieran Rose, who have done an enormous amount of work on this issue. I thank them and welcome them most sincerely. I also welcome members of the Dublin Pride team who are here today. I thank them for being here and for all their work in advocacy.

This is a special day for many of us in this Chamber as we welcome back the father of the House and hero to so many of us. Senator Norris is very welcome back.

Today's business is very important and, as Cathaoirleach, I will not pre-empt or get involved in the debate. However, it is important on the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia, IDAHOBITDay, that we have this debate. I will echo other Members of the Seanad who spoke earlier about the events leading up to this motion and to IDAHOBITDayby reminding us all that regardless of who we are, we are all born free and equal in terms of dignity and rights. Today, hate and prejudice have no place in our society. As Cathaoirleach of the Seanad, I am proud of the father of the House, who has fought so valiantly for generations to give all of us a better life. We owe Senator Norris a debt of gratitude.

Fintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann:

acknowledges:

- the historic 30th anniversary of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993, signed into law on 7th July, 1993, that decriminalised male homosexuality and introduced an equal age of consent;

- the 40th anniversary of both the ‘March from Liberty Hall to Fairview Park’ and the 40th anniversary of the Dublin LGBTQ Pride parade in June 1983;

- the 50th anniversary of the Sexual Liberation Movement, established in Trinity College in October 1973;

further acknowledges:

- the Dáil and Seanad motion of apology in 2018 to those convicted under the laws repealed in the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993;

- the Programme for Government commitment to ‘introduce a scheme for the expunging of criminal records for gay men convicted of historical offences’;

commends:

- the pioneering role of the Gay Liberation Society, established in Belfast in 1972;

- the advocacy of such foundational groups as the Northern Irish Gay Rights Association, the Irish Gay Rights Movement, National Gay Federation, Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, Liberation for Irish Lesbians, Cork Gay Collective, Dublin Lesbian and Gay Men's Collective and Galway Gay Collective, in advancing necessary public discourse on equality and anti-discrimination legislation;

- the bravery and steadfastness of those who pursued criminal and constitutional reform across the island of Ireland;

- the solidarity of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association and its individual member organisations in their decades-long advocacy of legislative reform in Ireland;

recognises:

- there is a global movement towards decriminalising homosexuality as the number of countries that criminalise consensual same-sex acts has decreased from 113 in 1990 to 64 in 2023;

- the bravery and steadfastness of LGBTQI activists and organisations that continue to demand human rights protections and campaign for the decriminalisation of homosexuality and transgender identity, despite threats to their safety and lives;

and calls for:

- the immediate introduction of legislation and a scheme that would disregard the criminal records of gay men convicted of historical offences in Ireland.

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí Seanad Éireann. I am grateful to my Sinn Féin colleagues for their encouragement and support in dedicating our Private Members' time to this important motion. As the Cathaoirleach said, today is International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia.

Friends, there is movement and progress right across the world towards decriminalisation of homosexuality and transgender identity. The number of countries that criminalise consensual intimacy between men has gone down from 113 countries in 1990, of which Ireland was one. Today, 64 countries still criminalise consensual same-sex intimacy. We salute the bravery and steadfastness of LGBTQI activists and organisations across the world and send our solidarity to those who pursue human rights protections and who campaign for the decriminalisation of homosexuality and transgender identity despite threats to their lives and safety. We send particular solidarity to those who live in the 11 countries where the penalty for sex between men is death. Those countries are Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen, Somalia, the United Arab Emirates, Brunei, Nigeria, Mauritania and Pakistan. We know that many of the laws criminalising homosexuality around the world have their origin in the archaic laws of the western colonial powers. We know that story.

It gives me great pleasure to mark a year of significant anniversaries as we approach a half century of LGBT civil rights in Ireland. This year marks the 30th anniversary of the Fairview Park march, at the time the largest protest in Ireland, against a culture of endemic violence towards women and gay men. The march from Liberty Hall to Fairview Park took place when an already put-upon community was effectively told a gay man's life had no value after the killers of Declan Flynn were left to walk free.

Next month, we will mark the 40th anniversary of the Dublin Pride parade, an event that grew from ten people protesting outside the Department of Justice in 1974 to 200 brave women and men joyously reclaiming the streets in June 1983. That Dublin Pride parade took place a few months after the anger and trauma of the Fairview Park march. Contrast that with today, when tens of thousands of people will participate in Dublin Pride on 24 June, making it the largest parade on the island of Ireland after the St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin. It is my pleasure to welcome members of the Dublin Pride team to Seanad Éireann today. They are very welcome.

As the march progresses through the city this year, we will recall the moment on that day 30 years ago when the Oireachtas introduced the new Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, finally consigning the Victorian British legislation to the rubbish bin of history. That new law not only introduced a common age of consent but set in train a raft of progressive anti-discrimination and equality legislation, including the far-reaching Equal Status Act 2000 and, more recently, legislation for marriage equality and gender recognition.

In marking the 30th anniversary of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, I will take a moment to acknowledge the individuals and NGOs that spent decades, many of them lonely and hostile decades, advocating for legislative change, engaging with Irish society on the need for change, and getting us, Ireland, to the point where we can rightfully say that we are beneficiaries of a new, modern and more caring social dispensation. The work of these activists and organisations would have counted for less if they had not been inspired and motivated by the historic and heroic work undertaken by Jeffrey Dudgeon in Belfast and David Norris in Dublin, and their respective teams. It is impossible to overstate the bravery and the personal and financial risks and sacrifices that both of those men made as they sued, respectively, the British and Irish Governments. Senator Norris and Mr. Dudgeon forced reluctant administrations, both North and South, to repeal discriminatory legislation around consensual sexual intimacy.

In this year of anniversaries, I salute the small group of trailblazers who met in Dublin's Trinity College in 1973, establishing the short-lived but enormously influential Sexual Liberation Movement that mobilised for systemic change on a range of issues, including reproductive rights, access to contraceptives, better sexual healthcare and gay law reform, to name but a few pressing intersectional concerns of that group. Senator Norris was, of course, at that first meeting, as was Mr. Edmund Lynch, who is here in the Gallery. I acknowledge Mr. Lynch and all those who met in building No. 5 in the front square of Trinity College in October of that year. Mr. Lynch is very welcome and I thank him for his service.

Sinn Féin today calls on the Government to honour its commitment to disregard the criminal records of gay men who were convicted of historical offences prior to the decriminalisation of homosexuality. In the last term, the then Senator Ged Nash proposed the Convictions for Certain Sexual Offences (Apology and Exoneration) Bill 2016. I commend him and the work of the Labour Party group, including Mr. Karl Hayden and others.

I will take a moment to welcome Mr. Kieran Rose to the Seanad. He was active from 1979 to 1980. We all know Mr. Rose well, from the origins of the Cork Gay Collective to today's activism on the LGBT restorative justice campaign. I also acknowledge Mr. Martin Barnes, the founder of Tell-A-Friend in 1974, 50 years ago next year.

The programme for Government includes a commitment to introduce a scheme for the expunging of criminal records for gay men convicted of historical offences. In 2018, on the 25th anniversary of decriminalisation, the Taoiseach issued an apology to the LGBT community on behalf of the State and subsequently the Department of Justice set up a working group to examine the disregard of convictions for certain qualifying offences related to consensual sexual activity between men. The report of the working group is imminent and it is absolutely necessary that the Government drafts this legislation now.I am calling for a clear timeline to be set out for the introduction of the legislation and a scheme that would disregard the historical convictions. The law is repealed, but the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 was discriminatory. It was contrary to human dignity and it infringed on people's right to privacy, to say the least.

We welcome the Government's commitment to work on this issue. Men's lives were upended by imprisonment, not unlike our own Oscar Wilde, who left prison in his early 40s a broken man. The move to formally disregard criminal convictions will come too late for many, especially those no longer with us. However, it is important to reclaim the dignity and humanity of those imprisoned men, for themselves as much as for their surviving families. These families were forced to carry the burden of shame, taboo and criminality that attached to homosexuality in all its forms before decriminalisation. Law reform and the proactive approach taken by a small band of legislators in both Houses of the Oireachtas signalled something more than just improving the lot of our LGBT citizens. It sent a signal about the type of caring, inclusive society we want to live in, and in which we want our children to grow up.

While we enact new anti-discrimination and equality legislation, we remember that affording rights to our minorities is not a zero-sum game, but a positive statement about the confident, caring and outward looking society that most of us want Ireland to be.

As we shine a light on 50 years of LGBT activism, we can be proud of the distance we have travelled in building that confident and caring society. We should be mindful that progress is rarely linear, as witnessed by recent transphobic and homophobic assaults, and the murder of two gay men in Sligo last year. It is clear that there are urgent conversations to be had around social inclusion, healthcare and education. I commend the individuals and NGOs in society that continue to progress those conversations.

Time is of the essence now to introduce this legislation and a scheme to disregard these convictions. This is a commitment the Government has made and that it should honour. It is also crucial that a process of memorialisation and commemoration should begin to recognise the wider harms of these laws.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. I commend my colleague, Senator Warfield, on tabling this Private Members' motion in the Seanad. We sometimes reflect on how far we have come as a country in terms of rights. I recently listened to the "Inside the Crime" podcast and it brought back just how different a country Ireland was in the 1970s and 1980s. The podcast covered the murder of Charles Self. I was struck by the fact that the Garda, rather than focusing on who took the life of that man focused instead on his diary and the influential people who were named in it. They used the information to have leverage and to out people to their families. In 1982, with the murder of Declan Flynn and the response of Mr. Justice Seán Gannon, who said that no element of correction was required for the five young men who were involved in his murder because they came from good homes. That shows how society viewed those in the LGBT community at the time. Their lives were not worth as much as everybody else's. We know from history that the death of Declan Flynn and others who died before him led to a movement of anger among the community, the members of which felt that enough was enough and it was time to fight back. We saw the protest march from Liberty Hall to Fairview Park, which subsequently led to the first Dublin Pride event.

It is important that while we recognise that we have moved on as a country and a society in many ways, we should never be complacent. Anti-queer violence is on the rise again. The year 2022 was one of the most dangerous years in Ireland for the LGBT community. We saw numerous violent attacks against friends and family members. As recently as today, Members of this House raised the awful video of a young 14-year-old who was attacked for being gay. This is a sad reminder that rights are always won, they are never given to us. We must constantly fight to retain them because there will always be a backlash when rights are progressed. We can never become complacent about how hard-fought they were by hose who went before us to ensure that the people who came after them do not have to suffer the same way as they did.

It is also important to note that not only have we seen violent attacks increase, we have also seen targeted campaigns against high profile LGBT people. There was a time when gay and lesbian politicians were not open about their sexuality but, thankfully, that is no longer the case. However, it is concerning to see politicians in this House and in the Dáil, including those who hold ministerial office, being targeted by people who seek to undo all that has been achieved over the past 30 years. We can never let that happen. We must stand united so that we never go back to those dark days. It is right to recognise that the apology from the Taoiseach in 2018 was very welcome. It was very important to set out a State apology, but we now need to deliver on the commitment in the programme for Government to disregard the criminal records of the gay men who were convicted of historic offences. That is important for the men who were convicted and their families. As Senator Warfield stated, some of them are no longer with us.

It is important that we, as policymakers, stand together. When we see a backlash against rights and when people try to bring us back to those dark days, we must send out a clear message to those involved that we will not accept it and that we will not bend or bow to their cause. Disregarding the convictions of the men to whom the motion refers would send a very strong message to the effect that Ireland is never going back there, but also that the members of our LGBT community are our friends, our family members and our loved ones. They are loved and accepted and they will never have to go through what happened in the past.

I commend Senator Warfield on bringing forward this motion. We can never ever be complacent. We all have a duty to make sure that we never go back to those dark days of the 1970s and 1980s.

Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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Well said.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of back to the House. I commend Senator Warfield and his party colleagues on bringing forward this very worthwhile motion. I extend a céad míle fáilte to the guests we have in the Chamber this afternoon for this very important discussion.

Fianna Fáil fully supports this motion. I welcome this very important discussion. I am very proud that my party has a long and proud history of campaigning for LGBTQI+ rights, from the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1993 by the then Minister for Justice, Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, to, more recently, the delivery of civil partnerships in 2010. The party is very proud of that record.

The criminalisation of consensual sexual acts between men in Ireland came into effect prior to the foundation of the State. I was shocked to learn recently that it is estimated that 1,690 men were subject to criminal proceedings under the law between 1950 and 1993, with the majority of convictions taking place in the early 1970s, which is not that long ago. These criminal proceedings resulted in imprisonment, the paying of fines or even psychiatric attention.

This criminalisation is now widely and rightly recognised as an affront to human dignity. The generational harm that was caused by the Victorian-era laws that criminalised sexual acts between men continues to impact negatively on many people's lives even today. While we cannot undo the harm inflicted on people who were discriminated against for simply being themselves, Fianna Fáil supports this motion and will continue with the healing process.

As Senator Warfield outlined, this motion will achieve the commitments in the programme for Government and the Justice Plan 2023 to put in place a scheme to disregard the convictions of people convicted of consensual same-sex activity prior to decriminalisation.Such positive action for disregarding the convictions is already under way. The working group has a good bit of work done in this regard and I welcome that.

As 2023 marks the 30th anniversary of the decriminalisation of consensual sexual acts between men in Ireland, we will continue the defence of LGBTQ+ rights. This motion will go some way to restoring the dignity of the people affected. It will address a significant historical injustice as well as sending a strong signal to that community that we all support them and are very much behind them.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am sorry not to have been in the House much recently but my cancer has come back and is in my lung. However, that has not stopped me enjoying life thoroughly, particularly on a beautiful day like this. I commend Senator Warfield strongly on his initiative in putting this motion before the House. It is an excellent thing to have done.

I had not realised it was 30 years. I am not good on anniversaries as I do not think backwards. Rather, I tend to think forward in life. I would like to recognise, as others have done, my colleague and friend Edmund Lynch, who is in the Gallery. I would also like to recognise Martin Barnes, who I have not seen for some time, and the others. Mention has been made of my old pal, Jeff Dudgeon, and I would like to say that our two cases were quite different because in his case there was a raid for drugs and coincidentally they came across a diary in which there were notations about homosexual encounters and so on and so forth. It was only accidental that they came across him and started to prosecute him. He then went straight across to Strasbourg, but I did not. My case was deliberately and politically planned. It was an attempt to drag the question of homosexuality out of the darkness, shadows and shade and place it as a matter deserving of proper political respect and attention.

In the case, I had good legal advice. I mention Garrett Sheehan, who was a remarkable solicitor. I think he is now a judge but perhaps he is retired. I mention Garrett Cooney. We chose Mr. Cooney because he was a conservative Roman Catholic and we thought this was exactly the kind of person we want to attack from inside. Garrett Cooney got up on the first day and said that his client, Mr. Norris, was a congenital and irreversible homosexual. Well that was news to me but I said that whatever it takes let us roll with it. The next day the morning newspapers said that when he opened his case in the High Court, Mr. Garrett Cooney, senior counsel, told the court that he was an irreversible and congenital homosexual. Garrett went crackers and demanded a retraction so the next day the headline said that Garrett Cooney had stated he was not a homosexual, and everybody was enjoying this over their breakfast marmalade and saying that whatever about that his eyes were close together. There was a lot of fun involved in those things. I could go on about it but there is no point in doing so.

I am honoured to have been associated with moves which lead to greater happiness for many young men in Ireland, and that is a great achievement. I would also like to pay sincere tribute to Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, who was a Minister at the time. Thank God it was a woman. I do not think a man would have had the balls for it to be honest and I do not think they would have faced up to it. Máire Geoghegan-Quinn was approached by a Fine Gael backroom girl called Phil Moore, whose husband had a radio shop up at the top of Grafton Street or Kildare Street. Their son Dermot was gay and she went and spoke to Máire Geoghegan-Quinn as one mother to another and that sold it, which was great.

I would like to express my gratitude to the people of Ireland. I have always felt the people of Ireland were decent, civilised and tolerant and so they proved to be. This was not an Irish law when it was introduced. It was the Labouchere amendment under which Oscar Wilde was convicted. It was introduced in the late 19th century as an adjunct to a Bill. It was never discussed in the House of Commons and it was introduced after midnight. Now it is gone and thank God for that. We will not mourn its passing.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I have the unenviable task of following an incredible contribution from Senator Norris. What a privilege it is to serve in this House alongside someone who has fought for so long for equal rights, since he was first elected to this House in 1987 and in his academic career before that. I would also like to thank my colleagues in Sinn Féin for bringing forward this motion and to acknowledge my Louth colleague, Deputy Nash, who built a lot on this in the last term of the Seanad, bringing forward a Bill to push this. I commend Deputy Nash on that.

As has been mentioned already, this is a Government commitment, it is in the programme for Government, it is something all sides of this House can agree on and it is something that all sides in this House and in the Dáil want to see enacted as quickly as possible. We are past the 50% stage of this Government, we have a substantial programme for Government and we have a number of commitments we want to make but this is an important commitment that we need to get across the line as quickly as possible.

I understand that the Minister without Portfolio, Deputy McEntee, established a working group between people within the Department and members of An Garda Síochána to establish what type of records need to be expunged. Naturally, given the length of time we are looking at, some historical records are not available. That working group met in June 2021 and has met subsequently. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State could give us an update on that working group, what it is doing and what are its timelines. When does the Minister of State expect to be able to inform both Houses of the Oireachtas when the working groups conclusions will come forward so that we can get this commitment in our programme for Government achieved and over the line?

I would also like to apologise for Senator Ward, who is our party's justice spokesperson, who cannot be here so I am happy to fill in for him. As I said, this is a good debate and I thank Senator Warfield and Sinn Féin for moving it forward. It is an important debate and one on which I am proud to contribute.

Annie Hoey (Labour)
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I thank Sinn Féin for bringing this motion. Tá fáilte roimh mo chara agus mo chomrádaí, Deputy Nash. Tá fáilte mhór roimh na daoine san Áiléar Poiblí, the activists, advocates and agitators from the LGBTQ community, spanning many decades. It is great to have them all in the House for this. I welcome and applaud Sinn Féin Senators, particularly my colleague, Senator Warfield, for introducing this motion in the Chamber.

The 30th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality is fast approaching and these past 30 years have been a surefooted march towards greater acceptance of and equality towards LGBTQ people. However, we cannot ignore the damage, shame and criminalisation that LGBTQ people faced before 7 July 1993, particularly in those laws that criminalised gay and bisexual men. Without going on too much of a 32-county and anti-imperialist rant, we inherited those laws from Britain. They were draconian laws that applied to sexual acts between consenting men and we are still feeling the repercussions of those colonial laws. We need only look at some of the African states which are tightening up and making even more drastic laws, some of which include the death penalty, for people existing as they are as two consenting adults.

As has been mentioned, my Labour Party colleague, Deputy Nash, previously introduced legislation in the Seanad: "to provide for an apology to and exoneration of persons convicted of consensual same-sex sexual acts, on the grounds that prosecutions for such offences were improperly discriminatory, contrary to human dignity and in breach of personal privacy and autonomy". I want to take a moment to acknowledge him and my LGBT comrades in the Labour Party who, for a long time, campaigned for a better Ireland for people like me in which to grow up. I was only five years-old when those laws were repealed.It seems strange to me even to think that I was alive at a time when it was a criminal act to do such a thing. Of course, we obviously have to acknowledge some of the trailblazers in this House. They include Senator David Norris whose personal courage and, in the words of Deputy Nash, sheer bloody-mindedness at times, helped us to usher in legislative change and change to societal attitudes and opinions.

In 2018, on the 25th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality, the then Taoiseach issued an apology to the LGBTQI+ community on behalf of the State. I am also aware that the Minister for Justice has held a public consultation on the scheme to disregard historical convictions of gay and bisexual men in November last year. We are very keen to see the results of that working group. I am hoping to see them in the summer and certainly not later than the autumn.

We will have the opportunity to discuss legislation for a scheme that would disregard the criminal records of gay men convicted of historical offences. That Bill should be published in the autumn but we will also need to ensure it provides the widest possible coverage to include the range of laws utilised by the State to prosecute and convict men for having sex with men, which had the additional effect of oppressing the wider LGBTQI+ community in Ireland. We must also recognise the work of the working group made up in part of members of the LGBTQI+ community with expertise in law and LGBTQI+ equality.

Disregarding the criminal records of gay men convicted of historical offences is obviously of great importance. We can never really fully understand the damage that was done to gay and bisexual men, in particular, but also the LGBTQI+ community as a whole. The culture of fear and shame created by these laws had an effect that persisted long after the decriminalisation of homosexuality. While no scheme can fully undo the hurt caused by the Victorian era laws, we must have a scheme which assists in the healing process for those affected by these laws. I know this relates in particular to those who were convicted but we also need to have consideration for those who were prosecuted but not convicted. A great many people were prosecuted but there was not enough evidence to convict them, whatever that evidence may have looked like, and many arrests were made without prosecutions. While we are looking at a disregard scheme here, we also need to consider what a restorative justice programme might look like. Whether that is funding for community groups or something similar, such a programme will be important going forward, not just for those who were convicted but for those who were wrongfully arrested and faced that prospect.

As I have said, Ireland has made very significant strides in LGBTQI+ rights in recent years but we cannot underestimate the dark cloud of the stigma that those laws created, which still looms today and forms a prejudice of homophobia and transphobia. Today is the International Day against Homophobia, Biphobia, and Transphobia and we have all seen or, if not, heard about a dreadful video circulating online at the moment of a young student in Navan who was beaten, it is assumed, because he was a member of the LGBTQI+ community. I do not think any of us will get out of our minds the sight of him crawling out from underneath a crowd as they kicked and punched him. I said earlier today that I hope the full force of our Garda resources and the school, which is easily identifiable, will be brought to bear on this case and the young man in question will have the support, love and community he needs going forward.

I will take a moment to reflect. I was struck by Senator Norris's use of the words that they campaigned for greater happiness. Is there no better thing that we can do as a society for the marginalised and the people who have been affected and downtrodden, whether that is through laws, prejudice or discrimination, than to campaign for greater happiness. Every person wants to be happy. We think of marriage equality day and the happiness that spread through Ireland then and the happiness that members of the trans community felt when we brought in gender recognition which allowed them to live their true lives as their authentic selves, just by believing them. As such, I commend Senator David Norris on all of the work he has done to bringing greater happiness.

I thank Sinn Féin for bringing this motion which I hope will undo some of the wrongs of the past. I very much look forward to the working group report and finally being able to exonerate those who were wrongly convicted and to remember those who were arrested but not convicted. I hope we find a way forward to achieve justice for them too.

Lynn Ruane (Independent)
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I stress how welcome this motion is and express the Civil Engagement Group’s full support for it. I do not want to endlessly repeat comments that have been made so I will echo the gratitude expressed to those people who, over decades, brought us to this point, although I will not namecheck them all again.

The motion has many different strands about the history of criminalisation of gay men in Ireland, the history of protest against LGBTQI+ oppression, and more. I want to highlight how the criminalisation of gay men was just one dimension of the larger conservative othering and suppression of queerness and gay men which was expressed in law but also in social stigma, religious dogma, erasure in terms of health provision and so on.

One connection I would like to make between these various strands is to highlight how the criminalisation of gay sex contributed directly to the AIDS crisis of the 1980s and 1990s. Dr. Nina Holmes, writing in the Irish Examinerin recent years, highlighted that the health education efforts directed at the gay community in Ireland were inhibited by the status of male homosexuality activity until decriminalisation. It was left to grassroots organisations to put themselves at risk to get information out there. It is notable that Ireland’s first AIDS pamphlet was issued not by the Department of Health but by the independent group, Gay Health Action, in 1985. The criminalisation of gay men and gay sex prevented the sharing of public health information which could have saved lives but it also helped to provide a moral cover or alibi for the failure to respond to the AIDS crisis.

This is where the blaming rhetoric came in. It was not until 1987 that the Irish Government launched its own AIDS awareness campaign and, unsurprisingly, it advocated abstinence as a solution. “AIDS Don't Bring It Home” and “Casual sex spreads AIDS” were the slogans. It is important to remind everyone that people living with HIV are now thankfully able to live long and healthy lives. Modern medication can reduce the virus in the bloodstream to undetectable levels such that people living with HIV can have unprotected sex with their partners without ever passing on the virus. Perhaps it is also time to consider a State apology for the atrocious response to the AIDS crisis in the 1980s and 1990s.

I also bring to the attention of the House the role that Ireland can and should play on LGBTQI+ issues internationally where criminalisation, oppression and persecution persists in other jurisdictions. In Uganda, members of parliament recently passed a controversial Bill which will make homosexual acts punishable by death. Last summer, three men were sentenced to death by stoning in a Sharia law court in northern Nigeria after they had been convicted of engaging in homosexuality. We must condemn these actions as a House in the strongest terms and we must also use our diplomatic influence to end the persecution of LGBTQI+ people around the world. I would welcome updates from the Minister about the work being undertaken internationally by the State in this respect through our diplomatic and multilateral channels.

I will conclude by weaving some threads between criminalisation and oppression and also between the past and the present day. It is deeply disturbing to see attacks globally on trans people at present. We need to historicise this and realise that the attacks on trans people’s social and legal rights are interwoven in exactly the same way that social oppression of gay men was interwoven with their ultimate criminalisation. In order to make the act of gay sex illegal, gay sex had to be socially smeared. Groups worked to infect society with a paranoia and a fear around gay sex to stigmatise it, including falsely associating it with paedophilia. Rhetorical efforts like these helped to create and maintain criminalisation or to remove legal rights in different places all around the world. We are now seeing a similar dynamic play out in the present day with our other LGBTQI+ friends and peers where people are creating a similar paranoia about the physicality of trans people. Concerted efforts are being made to see trans people as threatening and to generate unfounded paranoia about what bathrooms they use or what lockers they share. To make it very clear, we are seeing the exact same dynamic play out. We have also seen trans people being accused of being paedophiles or sexually deviant, just like gay men were. In the past couple of years, we have seen the far right accusing trans organisations of grooming and the spreading of totally unfounded conspiracies about these organisations.

Just like a manufactured moral panic was historically used to create and maintain a criminalisation around gay men, we are now seeing a similar moral panic being used to try to remove the legal rights of trans people. We are seeing certain groups attempting to use this manufactured hysteria to justify pushback against our self-identification laws in Ireland. We cannot lose the thread of history here. It is beyond time that we right historical wrongs against gay men. If we do not learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it. It is crucial, therefore, that we learn lessons by looking back and understanding how society allowed this social contagion of fear and hatred towards gay men to spread.When preparing for today's speech I was thinking of Foucault's work on madness and crime and punishment. Again, it was the words of Senator Norris on happiness that reminded me of Foucault and I will finish by quoting him.

Sexuality is a part of our behaviour. It's part of our world freedom. Sexuality is something that we ourselves create. It is our own creation, and much more than the discovery of a secret side of our desire. We have to understand that with our desires go new forms of relationships, new forms of love, new forms of creation. Sex is not a fatality; it's a possibly for creative life. It's not enough to affirm that we are gay but we must also create a gay life.

Those words capture Senator Norris's statement about fighting for happiness.

Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome all our guests who have taken the time to be here today. I commend in particular my colleague and comrade, Senator Warfield, on bringing this very important motion to the Seanad. As has been pointed out, next month marks the 30th anniversary of the introduction of the 1993 Act which decriminalised homosexuality. It is worth reflecting that at least 940 men were convicted of homosexual acts in Ireland under the awful legislation in place before that. It is high time those criminal records were disregarded alongside that legislation. It is a pity it has taken 30 years to get to this point but we very much welcome the work the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has done to bring about public consultation and promises of legislation to expunge or disregard those offences. I very much look forward to the Minister of State's response because I am sure he will give us a clear timeline for when this legislation will be brought forward and passed.

As someone who grew up in Ireland in the 1980s, I believe it is worth taking a minute to think about the impact the horrendous British legislation had on so many people for so many decades in respect of their employment and their ability to live a life here in Ireland. I took the time to read some excerpts from a book by Diarmaid Ferriter, Occasions of Sin. It details some of the horrific circumstances in which gay men found themselves. In one case in Kildare in 1927, a man was lured by a detective, compromised by that detective and then convicted. Professor Ferriter details a famous case in Tullow in which a garda found two young men in a compromising situation and then managed to get a whole host of names of other people. As a result, 20 men were convicted in one case in the small town of Tullow, County Carlow. The impact of that was that lives were ruined. Some of these men were married.

I mention the 1980s because my honest recollection, from going to school in a vocational school on the Meath side of the Meath-Westmeath-Cavan border, was that homosexuality was a complete no-go at that time. It was completely outside the Pale. I recall a friend of mine in school. I never knew he was gay. He left the country, as so many did during the 1980s, because he obviously did not feel he had any space to come out and be who he was. He headed off and started a new life elsewhere. I am sure that was the case for many thousands of people.

It is great to reflect on the progress we have made, and we really have made great progress in terms of marriage equality and gender recognition. As previous speakers have done, however, I will reflect on what happens elsewhere. There has been a very welcome trend towards decriminalisation of homosexuality, with almost 50 countries decriminalising since the beginning of the 1990s. According to my notes, there are still 67 countries which currently expressly criminalise same-sex sexual activity. LGBTIQ people still face discrimination, harassment, persecution, incarceration or even murder or the death penalty in many parts of the world. I will break that down. Thirty-two countries in Africa criminalise LGBT people in some form. In the Americas six countries, all Caribbean, criminalise sexual activity between people of the same sex. In Asia 23 countries, the majority of which are in the Middle East, criminalise LGBT people. In the Pacific seven countries criminalise consensual same-sex sexual activities. The punishments in these countries vary, but it is frightening that there are still 11 countries where the death penalty can be someone's punishment for being gay.

As I have mentioned previously in this Chamber, we do trade missions to some of these countries, including Saudi Arabia. We saw the horrific sportswashing in Qatar during the World Cup. I do not know how we do those trade missions when, unfortunately, our Governments do not mention during these trade missions the horrific laws on the death penalty for being gay, for example, in Saudi Arabia. We need to be aware of that.

During my time in the Council of Europe, I have seen representatives from Poland and Hungary very openly taking a stance that is very discriminatory. We know that only a couple of years ago there were LGBT-free zones in Poland. That is not in the 1980s or the 1890s; that was in 2020. We know that a raft of anti-LGBT legislation has been passed in Hungary. I can tell the House about some of the shrill voices I hear on the Council of Europe from these far-right parties, the likes of Vox in Spain and the Swedish Liberals. These parties will bring back hatred and discrimination and worse if they get their way. That is what we see at the moment.

One of the things that worries me - and I do not want to finish on a depressing note - is that it appears that some parties of the centre-right are willing to do deals with these parties. There is a real prospect that the People's Party in Spain will join a coalition with Vox at the end of this year if they get the votes. To me, that is beyond the Pale because these parties represent hatred and the sort of prejudice we have spent the past 30 years moving away from. It is important we make that clear call today that all of us - and it is very clear to me that everyone in this Chamber shares that common ground of believing in progress, individual rights and freedoms - make sure that none of our sister parties anywhere across Europe have anything to do with a return of the far right.

Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Like others, I thank the Sinn Féin group, in particular my friend and colleague, Senator Warfield, for bringing forward this motion.

I am a gay man. I am proud of that fact. It shapes who I am. It is not my entire personality but it is an important part of who I am. Thirty years ago, however, when homosexuality was being decriminalised I was very unsure of my identity. As a teenager, I was a criminal simply because I chose to express my love or feelings for somebody else.

It is important we recognise trailblazers such as Senator Norris and those who at the time fought and went against the tide by expressing the desire that a very simple human right, the right to express love, would be recognised by the State. Tributes have been paid to Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, and she did fight against the political tide, including, in fairness, in my party, in which there were conservatives.

Our politics has changed enormously since then. In every political party and none there are now people who openly identify as LGBTQ. We disagree on political issues but on the pursuit of gay rights, there is common cause and common agreement, and we see that in this House. Within my party, the levels of support I have received and our LGBTQ caucus has received have been phenomenal. I say this to the Minister of State, even though we are both based in Wexford and we have political rivalry. As everyone knows, political rivalry internally within a party can be greater but I will tell the House that the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, has done a hell of a lot to fight homophobia, racism and discrimination, not only as an elected representative but also as a Minister of State. It is so good that we see so many members of the community standing for election and involved in political parties. Senator Warfield and I were fortunate that we were both cathaoirligh of our respective local authorities in 2014 and 2015.It is great to see one of my party colleagues, Councillor Emma Murphy, as the first openly lesbian chair of a local authority, namely, South Dublin County Council. There are so many examples of people who are getting involved in politics. It is not about their sexuality; their sexuality does not define them. We have made enormous progress on all of those issues. However, we still have to remember those hundreds of men who, simply because they chose to define themselves as gay or even in some cases where they were not gay but there was trumped up evidence against them, ended up with convictions. This is a matter of urgency. It is committed to in the programme for Government and has cross-party support. It will have an easy passage through these Houses. It is important that we move on it as quickly as possible.

There are other areas where we have made progress. I am happy in respect of sex education. In the past, anything to do with being homosexual or LGBT was either taught as being wrong or was completely ignored. Whereas now, it is being taught in an age appropriate way. There is much more access to healthcare for members of the LGBT community. I accept that there is a great deal more to do. However, we have come a long way from the campaigns that Senator Ruane spoke about.

We have challenges within this country about how the trans community is being treated. We have challenges in rural areas because a lot of the support services in such areas are not as strong as in some of those in the cities. Unfortunately, we continue to hear about homophobic attacks. This morning, we talked about that attack in Meath and those men in Sligo who have been killed. A friend of mine told me at the weekend that he was simply walking home on O’Connell Street and he had abuse shouted at him. I agree with Senator Norris. The overwhelming majority of people in Ireland are decent and will not tolerate anything like this. However, there is a small fringe that is very dangerous and we need to take them on.

I also agree with Senator Gavan. The European Union is about a union of values. I do not believe that the European Union can rightly point out what is happening in parts of Africa, the Middle East and other places while there are questions around countries within the EU and how they treat not just the LGBT community but women and other minorities.

We have much to celebrate. As colleagues have said, we have come a long way. We will not be able to change the past. In this motion, we recognise the contribution of so many people who have fought along the way, but we also need to ensure that those against whom the State took horrible actions are recognised and that any criminal records are expunged.

I thank my colleague, Senator Robbie Gallagher, who has been strong in supporting this issue within our party. I commend the motion. I ask the Minister of State, when responding, to share the urgency of finally addressing this issue.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank Senator Warfield and the other Sinn Féin Senators for tabling this motion, which is timely and important motion. I welcome our friends and guests into this House. Seanad Éireann is an important place. I thank them for their advocacy and work. I particularly want to welcome Martin Barnes, a neighbour of mine for many years. It is great to see him here and everybody else who has been an advocate.

Many previous speakers mentioned Declan Flynn. In 1982, Declan Flynn was murdered in Fairview Park, his only crime that he was a gay man. He was brutally attacked by five young men who set out, to use their words, to “queer bash”, a common activity that was happening all around Dublin at the time, in every street and park, despite what people might have said. He died after being given a horrific beating. Afterward, many young people then in up in a society that feared and hated homosexuality. When Declan was murdered, I was only 21. I had just returned from Greece, having lived there for a period. I remember particularly that summer and that year. When you were a young man of 21, particularly if you have travelled on the Continent and come back from Greece having had a pretty good time, you suddenly wondered what Ireland was all about. Declan’s murder had a profound effect on many people. In many ways, it was a catalyst for change. If anything positive came out of what happened, it was that catalyst for change.

Another date that many of us in this House will never forget is 22 May 2015. It was the day of the marriage equality referendum. I like to use the phrase “marriage equality referendum”. I left this House one evening a year ago after a debate and somebody stopped me and told me that they thought I got it wrong. The told me equality does not come with marriage and that I did not understand the significance of the meaning of marriage. I challenged that particular politician and had a meaningful debate with them. It is about equality. It was marriage equality and the marriage equality referendum. It was also 33 years after Declan Flynn’s death. The park bench close to where Declan was killed in Fairview Park in Dublin that day was covered with flowers, notes and many memories of him. There was a huge outpouring of emotion on many of those notes, and many were covered in our social media. There was talk of love and even forgiveness. People left messages of forgiveness. One thing was clear. There was a solidarity and remembrance of Declan Flynn 33 years later on 22 May 2015.

I, and many of us, think of Declan and those who paved the way for change, justice and reform. We remember the inspiring example of our Independent Senator David Norris, who brought his own case for decriminalisation all the way to the Supreme Court, and his determination and pursuit of equality and justice. It is important that he was here today. I know it was very special for him to be here. Many were generous in their acknowledgements of him and his enormous work. I am very proud to serve on the Independent benches in Seanad Éireann and I was greatly honoured when Senator Norris nominated me to contest the Seanad elections. That was one of the greatest honours of my political career in this House.

As we discuss these issues and have this debate, it is important that we acknowledge our indebtedness to Europe. In 1988, the European Court of Human Rights decided in favour of Senator Norris’s landmark case that created the impetus and provided the momentum to change our laws. Europe has been good to us in terms of social justice and equality issues. Senator Malcolm Byrne referred to and has always acknowledged that. We need to be thankful for Europe, its courts and its institutions in the context of our debate today. As Senator Norris does, we should acknowledge that he did not take his legal challenge in Europe on his own. A dozen men who could not be named took the case with him. We will always be grateful to them and to his counsel at the time, our former Senator and former President Mary Robinson, for the important role that she played.

I want to pay a special tribute to unknown heroes, to the friends of many of the people who are sitting in the Public Gallery today and to the thousands of people whose names we did not know and may never know who were criminalised or convicted before 1993. Many of them have passed away. May they rest in peace.

There is always more to do in promoting justice and equality on the island of Ireland and around the world, such as by tackling homophobia and bullying in our schools and workplaces and advocating for improved sexual health.

It is important that the Government honour the commitments it made to disregard the criminal records of gay men who were convicted of historic offences prior to the decriminalisation of homosexuality. The programme for Government includes that commitment and contains the phrase “introduce a scheme for the expunging of criminal records of gay men convicted of historical offences”. I believe the Government will honour that commitment, and I hope that this evening we will be given a timeline for what it proposes to do. I commend Sinn Féin on its use of Private Members' time in respect of this matter, and I commend the motion to the House.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I thank Senator Warfield and Sinn Féin for introducing this motion. I welcome the commitment in the programme for Government to deal with the matter to which it relates. I look forward to the Minister of State's response on the timeline to deliver on that commitment. I presume there will be all-party across the Chamber for Senator Warfield's motion.

The year 1993 seems like an age ago. I suppose it is, to a degree. It is still part of what we would have referred to as modern Ireland and was a time of great hope. Yet it seems like it was a different period. The work of those advocates, politicians and all the people like Senator Norris who took cases to prescribe rights for gay and LGBT people is to be commended.

One can look back at high-profile cases in the UK such as that relating to Alan Turing. He was a hero for what he did in the context of decoding during the Second World War, and yet he was criminalised as a gay man and underwent an amount of brutal and savage treatment at the hands of authorities before he died. His conviction was eventually expunged by either Gordon Brown's Government or that of Tony Blair. Certainly, we need to do the same here. It is long overdue. It would be another step forward in normalising, if you like, people who are gay and people in the LGBT community.

I also condemn what has been seen and circulated on social media today in relation to what was, one has to assume, a homophobic attack in County Meath. I thought we were over that sort of bullshit to be honest. I thought we were over that sort of targeting of people for their sexuality. The fact that it is still going on, particularly with school kids, is disgraceful. I do not know sometimes. I have always been of the view that you live and let live; let people live their own lives. This sort of targeting is disgraceful. That case will take its own course with the school authorities and with An Garda Síochána.

This is a timely motion. I look forward to the Minister of State's response and to the Government's timeline for delivering on the commitment in the programme for Government. There are many people who, unfortunately, have gone to their graves having been criminalised. In their memory, and for those who are perhaps still alive, it is right that they receive justice regarding their sexuality.

Annie Hoey (Labour)
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I do not see any other Senators looking to come in, so I invite the Minister of State to respond.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I want the acknowledge the presence of Senator Norris, who is here today, despite his ill health, for all of his fellow campaigners and organisers. I acknowledge the hard work and dedicated advocacy that they put in over many years towards the fight for equality. I wish Senator Norris strength and a speedy recovery from his illness. I acknowledge his political career, which has been dedicated - to use his own words here today - to the greater happiness of others.

I also join in condemning attacks on anybody in the LGBT community or any hate motivated attacks. Such attacks deserve total condemnation.

I thank Sinn Féin for tabling this motion for a very important scheme related to the disregard of criminal convictions for consensual activity between men, the development of which has been a focus for this Government. While the motion coincides with and recognises a number of important anniversaries that fall this year, it relates to a matter which the Government and my Department have already been progressing for some time and which will come to conclusion in the very near future.

At the outset, I acknowledge the relentless march of progress instigated by civil society that has been undertaken by many groups highlighted in the motion and others to make Ireland the more open and accepting society it is today. It is widely acknowledged that the previous offences on the Statute Book of this State, which criminalise consensual sexual activity between men, are considered to have been particularly discriminatory, contrary to human dignity and an infringement of the right to privacy and self-autonomy. Those laws caused multiple harms to those directly and indirectly affected, namely men who engaged in consensual same-sex activities, and to their families and friends. Furthermore, the law significantly hindered progress towards equality for the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and intersex community.

Thankfully, those discriminatory laws were abolished by the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993, introduced by the then Minister for Justice Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, after 130 years of their being on the Statute Book since the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 was first introduced. The damage caused by these laws has had a clearly negative impact on the lives of too many people. Criminalisation was an affront to human dignity and a significant historic injustice. While it is not possible to undo the hurt inflicted on people who were discriminated against simply for being themselves, the sincere wish is that we can contribute to the healing process.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to putting in place a scheme to disregard the convictions of people convicted of consensual same-sex activity prior to decriminalisation. Our working group was established and met 11 times between June 2021 and May 2023 and discussed this matter in considerable detail. The group conducted extensive research on disregard schemes in multiple common law jurisdictions, such as Australia, Canada, England, Wales, Scotland, and New Zealand, to inform a best practice approach to developing recommendations in an Irish context. It received advice from the Office of the Attorney General on a number of key issues, particularly regarding the determination of offences and qualifying standard. It received input from the Department of Defence on relevant convictions under military law to help inform a recommendation on offences that would be included in the disregard scheme. It identified the availability and quality of records held by An Garda Síochána and other State agencies, included through the commissioning of a legal historian. The group held a public consultation to receive submissions on a number of key issues from affected persons and representative groups to inform its final recommendations, and sought to address a number of complex legal and records-related issues in order to make recommendations with the stated goal of designing a disregard scheme that is accessible and as effective as possible in law.

The final meeting of the working group occurred on 5 May. I understand from my officials that as all recommendations are now agreed, a report is currently being finalised. Once the final report and recommendations of the working group have been published, my Department will progress to the legislative drafting process and the introduction of a scheme to disregard relevant criminal convictions. The Government's ultimate desire is that the scheme will be as effective and as accessible as possible in order that we can exonerate those impacted by the outdated laws to which I refer and address some of the lingering harms of the past. In doing so, we continue to acknowledge the brave advocacy of those groups and individuals, dating back 50 years and more, who fought for criminal and constitutional reform in Ireland.

The impending disregard scheme will be another important step towards addressing the immeasurable individual harm that has been done to generations of gay and bisexual men and to their loved ones, a harm that is still felt today, while demonstrating once more that we are willing to revisit and confront uncomfortable aspects of our past. The Government is committed to implementing the disregard scheme, and important progress is outlined in the Justice Plan 2023. While I do not have a specific timeline at this point, I can assure the House that it is a priority for the Minister, Deputy McEntee. The Government welcomes the support of Sinn Féin for this work and thanks the party for the motion tabled here today.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the opportunity to come in for a moment. I was at a meeting of the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight, which is obviously relevant to the House in a big way. It would be out of order not to attend that.

I will say a few brief words. First, I congratulate Senator Warfield and his Sinn Féin colleagues on bringing forward the motion. It is timely and important and will have unanimous support. It is a privilege to lend my own support to it.

I acknowledge the presence of Senator Norris today.I did not hear any of the previous speeches but I assume Senator Norris was applauded in a general way. He is very much the hero in the background today. When it was neither profitable nor popular, as the country expression goes, Senator Norris was saying these things and advocating in this way. He showed great courage in that regard.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Browne, whom I know from his dealings in another area is a reforming Minister. I have a personal interest in the issue of gambling and he has been extraordinarily responsive in that regard. That is not the issue under debate today but I know he will respond.

I salute the NGOs, including the various gay rights organisations. I will not go through the organisations listed here but they merit salutation for their work in the background. No more than Senator Norris, they were working when it was less popular and much more difficult.

Before I speak to the motion, I make the point that the seminal event of which we in Ireland can be very proud, one which distinguishes us in many ways and says much about our European values and our values in every respect, is that we were at the avant-garde and the front of adopting marriage equality with such enthusiasm and in such numbers nationally. We can be very proud of that as a people and as a House. It is no harm to clap ourselves on the back in respect of that significant achievement and advance. It obviated many other things and was a wonderful development. Fair is fair in these matters. In her day, the former Minister, Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, was very courageous. She was ahead of the curve on this and merits acknowledgement today.

I support the motion. We are a civilised people and have learned over time that we should adopt the principle of live and let live. When people wish to live according to their personal preference and give expression to their personal sexuality, that should be the case. Nobody should be curbed in any of these matters other than when it infringes on others, and that is certainly not the case here. The motion is important. The dignity of every person should be recognised. Everyone's right to existence, self-expression, personal fulfilment and their own dignity and self-importance is a core value that we should acknowledge.

The motion calls for "the immediate introduction of legislation and a scheme that would disregard the criminal records of gay men convicted of historical offences in Ireland."That is a very good proposal and I know the Minister was affirmative in his response. It is fundamental and a sine qua nonfor closure, which is a great contemporary word. It would represent significant closure on a bleak, dark and sad past. That should be very much the case and that legislation should be advanced as soon as possible to proceed unanimously and efficiently through the Houses of the Oireachtas.

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on the motion, which has my support. There are other Senators waiting to come in. When I think of society here at the time I was born and what this country was then, it is wonderful to see to where we have now progressed to in these areas. I am glad to have lived to see that day.

Michael McDowell (Independent)
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Like Senator O'Reilly, I was involved in a lengthy meeting of the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight and, therefore, missed the earlier part of the debate, much to my regret. I note what Senator Norris said and wish him well. I join other Members in saluting everything he has done in the past to end the injustice against gay men of more than a century, going back to the 1880s, and the criminalisation of their private lives.

In legal terms, the mere fact that a Bill is passed by the Oireachtas repealing a law does not clear convictions under that law. There are a load of constitutional complications. Members may recall the occasion when the law relating to unlawful sex with a minor was condemned by the Supreme Court and the court came back to say that did not mean that everyone who was convicted under that law would get out of jail. There is that dimension to the issue - that simply repealing a law does not effectively clean the slate. Even if the Supreme Court had condemned the previous law as unconstitutional when it had that opportunity - it is a pity it never did so - that would not have cleaned the slate either as things stand.

In the context of a scheme to right what was wrong, the presidential power of pardon is sometimes misunderstood. There is New Zealand case law to the effect that a pardon removes the conviction in its entirety. All this arose in the context of the IRA and what should or should not happen to its members when I was Minister, as well as when I was Attorney General. There is English theory to the effect that a pardon does not wipe out the conviction in its entirety. The preferable view, however, is that a presidential pardon has the effect of completely eliminating the conviction and its consequence for whoever was wrongly convicted. We should go as far as we possibly can, using every approach to say that what was wrong will be put right and that people whose records now appear to show criminal convictions should stand completely equal to every other person who has never been convicted of a criminal offence. There should be an acknowledgement in the form of a pardon, statutory scheme or whatever other measure, or a combination of them all, to put right what was wrong.

It was not until the 1880s that certain forms of what was then referred to as gross indecency between male persons were actually criminalised. Prior to that, only one form of sexual activity between gay men was criminalised. The Labouchere amendment, as it was called, should never have been enacted by the Westminster Parliament for these islands at the time. That is obvious, especially in light of the gross hypocrisy at the heart of it. Certain well connected persons could ignore that law with impunity whereas people who were vulnerable were socially disgraced, prosecuted and imprisoned. We only have to think of the shocking end to the life of Alan Turing to see just how appalling that law was. Following the tiny incident for which he was convicted, the efforts of the English magistracy to chemically castrate him and his subsequent suicide is a sad reflection in retrospect, especially given that he, in collaboration with others, saved democracy and freedom and the world from tyranny.

I am sorry I missed the early portion of the debate on this important topic. I thank those who proposed the motion for our consideration.The Government should make a real effort to do everything to expunge the injustice that was done and to symbolise by any possible legal and constitutional means the complete cancellation of the facts of those injustices and their consequences so that everyone who stands still tainted by a criminal conviction is declared to be entirely innocent and be regarded in the law as though none of those facts had ever been proven against them in prosecution, still less being punished for what they were.

Fintan Warfield (Sinn Fein)
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On the issue of "expunging" versus "disregarding", it was considered in the progress report of the working group. One of its members, Kieran Rose, who is a member of the community, is here. "Expunging" means to destroy completely or to remove completely. A different approach, such as "disregard", would allow records not to be removed or destroyed but available to researchers and historians. For that reason, the working group will strongly recommend "disregard" rather than expunging or destruction and I support that. When I talk about historians, I am conscious that one of the people who helped me to prepare this motion and with listing the various groups over the years is Tonie Walsh, who I know is watching on in Türkiye. I know he would love to be here to help. Tonie was president of NXF, the National LGBT Federation, from 1984-8 when it was a co-litigant with Senator Norris.

I wanted to say in my first contribution while Senator Norris was here that I know he cofounded the National Gay Federation and in 1979 advanced a personal loan to help open the Hirschfeld Centre, one of the first of its kind in the world and the second attempt at a community centre in Dublin for lesbian and gay men.

I thank all the speakers who have expressed their support. There has been a lot of talk about homophobia and particularly today when we have seen scenes online. What do we tell people all the time? We tell them to be themselves but so many people fashion personas that they think others will like and admire. When you come to accept yourself you are on your own ground and you are stronger and more resilient. Homophobia does not just affect LGBT people; it affects absolutely everyone. It polices everyone’s behaviour. It can result in everyone moderating their behaviour. People who are not gay can endure the most sustained and bruising homophobia, particularly in our schools. That is why homophobic bullying should be tackled to ensure that every child can be safe in school. Homophobia is about policing the boundaries of masculinity so if you have long hair then “that’s gay”; if you are physically weak then “that’s gay” or if you wear makeup, "that's gay". None of these things make you gay. Homophobia affects everyone whether gay or straight. It should be tackled head on.

The widest possible scheme is needed here and should be accessible and effective as the Minister said. I welcome the insight. I regret that we do not have a greater indication of the timeline for the legislation but I hope it will be in the autumn schedule because if not it will be under real pressure in this Government term. The intent of this motion is to show that the Opposition and all of us in this Parliament are keenly watching this issue and we want to see a disregard scheme that is open as widely as possible and that is accessible and effective.