Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the Minister of State turning up. I also appreciate that this issue is not within his remit. He is the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, OPW, whereas I am trying to progress a matter of special education. The Minister of State has a great knowledge of west Cork, though, given he has family in Bandon and other parts of west Cork, so he will understand what I am about to discuss, namely, a special school for the west Cork catchment area. A special school for autistic children is an issue that we need to progress, if possible.

West Cork is an exceptionally large area and we have a significant network of autism spectrum disorder, ASD, classrooms in the majority of primary schools. These have been helpful and appropriate to the needs of the majority of children. Unfortunately, a small minority of children need to attend special schools. The nearest special school to the people I have been speaking to is in Cork city. Six-, seven- and eight-year-olds are getting on a bus in Skibbereen, travelling for more than two hours to reach that special school and travelling for the same amount of time coming home. That we are stuck with such a scenario is unbelievable.

A special school for autistic children is a matter that we have been trying to progress for the past six or seven years in particular. There has been movement on special schools in other parts of the county. For example, Rochestown saw a new special school open in recent months and the plans for a special school in Carrigtwohill in east Cork are welcome. However, a special school for autistic children in west Cork is an issue that we must progress. There is a considerable level of need within the area. Of the more than 1,000 people involved, 60 or 70 children need to attend a special school. Parents feel that their lives are being put on hold because of the lack of such a school. It comes down to basic stuff. For example, not only is there the issue of the hours spent travelling every day, but the children's friends do not attend their birthday parties because their friends live three hours away and will not make the effort to come. These kids' ability to socialise with their friends is being taken away. Their parents are worn out. When their kids come home, they are wrecked and physically fit for nothing only to lie on the couch for an hour or two because of the amount of travelling involved.

The needs of the kids, parents and communities are not being addressed by the current model, which has left children on buses and in taxis for hours every day. It kills the entire community and the environment in which these kids are living. We need the Minister to meet the children, parents and a trustee so that we can work together on progressing this project and have a special school in west Cork. The benefits of this are obvious and the level of need is significant. If we get everyone together around the table, we will be able to provide a special space so that children do not have to spend hours in cars going nowhere.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I apologise to Senator O'Loughlin. I am not sure what happened at the start.

A priority for the Government is to ensure that all children have an appropriate school place and that the necessary supports are provided to our schools to cater for children with special educational needs. It is important to remember that the vast majority of children with special education needs are supported in attending mainstream classes with their peers. To support children with more complex needs, though, the Department will spend in excess of €2.6 billion this year on providing additional teaching and care for them. In 2023, the Department has increased the number of teacher and special needs assistant, SNA, posts and there will be an additional 686 teachers and a further 1,100 SNAs. For the first time ever, we will have more than 19,000 teachers working in special education and more than 20,000 SNAs, together with almost 40,000 qualified and committed people in our schools who are focused exclusively on supporting children with special educational needs.

The National Council for Special Education, NCSE, has responsibility for co-ordinating provision for children across the country.Over the past three years the Department and the NCSE have introduced a number of strategic initiatives to provide sufficient mainstream classes and special school places. These initiatives are bearing fruit with more than 600 special classes sanctioned at primary level, almost 300 sanctioned at post-primary level and five new special schools established over the past three years. On 12 April the Minister announced the establishment of two further special schools as part of a comprehensive update of enhanced education provision - as the Senator referred to, they are in Carrigtwohill in east Cork and in Dublin 7 - for the 2023-24 school year. Along with the two new special schools, the Department has also confirmed that 218 new special classes - 126 at primary level and 92 at post-primary level - have been sanctioned by the NCSE for the 2023-24 school year, with more to be confirmed over the coming weeks. Some 45 of the 218 special classes sanctioned by the NCSE are in County Cork, 29 at primary level and 16 at post-primary level. These new classes are being established in schools across the city and county, including in west Cork. They will bring the total number of special classes in County Cork to 466, 329 at primary level and 137 at post-primary level.

The Senator referenced the issue of establishing a new special school in west Cork. While I am not a Minister of State in the Department of Education, I want to assure him that the Department and the NCSE will continue to monitor and review the need for special schools and the expansion of existing ones over the coming months and years. The Minister is conscious that some students are travelling too far to access a special school or class placement. This is a key consideration when we decide to establish a new special school or expand its services.

I take note of the points made by Senator Lombard. As somebody who is very familiar with the terrain of west Cork, I know there are problems with using a naked population ratio to establish any kind of service in some of the more remote parts of the country. If you compare flat territory that does not have peninsulas, mountains or water to places with lush green fields and roads laid out in straight lines, you may as well be comparing apples with pineapples. They are two totally different things. The Senator is right about the terrain and the geographical impediment. As a teacher, I probably know this better than some. The impediments some people have to endure in order to fulfil the access their child needs to gain a successful education are disproportionate in some cases. The points raised by the Senator are valid.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I think the Minister of State knows it better than most.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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We are looking at more than 60 kids who could potentially go to a special school in west Cork. Unfortunately, the majority of them are travelling more than two hours in a car or bus. Some of them are travelling more than four hours in a car or bus. It just does not work for these families, these kids and these communities. The need for the geography element to be taken into consideration is huge. If we just consider population, it is always going to work against us. Geographical impediments are our biggest issue. I firmly believe we need to have a round-table discussion. We need to bring together the Minister, maybe a trustee and the actual groups to hammer out a project to make sure these children have the ability to go to school in an appropriate manner. Two hours each way on a bus is not appropriate. I welcome the Minister of State's comments, particularly those at the end of his speech. The geographical impediment of what we are seeing at the moment is literally killing the family environment, and destroying any social fabric these poor kids have.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I have a fair few family members in west Cork. Even though Cork is an adjoining county to my own county, I would be in Dublin faster than I would be down to see some of them. The distances are not only great, but they are complicated. I can only imagine what it must be like to be the parent of a young child from Baltimore, Ballydehob, Schull, Goleen, Bantry or any of the places on the Beara Peninsula or the Sheep's Head Peninsula. It must be difficult. A compelling case has been made for the inclusion of geographical impediments. It cannot just be determined on the basis of a population of 210,000 or 147,000. I mean no disrespect to the Senator from County Kildare, but there is no comparison between a population base of 147,000 in County Kildare or County Limerick and a population base of 147,000 in west Cork. I will pass on to the Department of Education the geographical impediments raised by the Senator.