Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party)
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I really wish I was not in the Chamber this morning raising this issue. It is a bit ridiculous at this stage. I have stood on the picket lines with schools secretaries. They are the beating heart of schools. They found it really difficult to leave their workplace and go out on the picket lines. They were delighted that they reached a pay deal with the support of Fórsa and yet here we are, a year later, and they still have not seen a penny. I spoke to a school secretary this morning who said the secretaries were watching increases for other people in their schools coming across their desks while they are getting nothing. I really want an answer this morning. When are school secretaries going to see the pay? When are they going to see the back pay? Do they have security this summer that they are not going to be left without pay for the entire summer again? It would be disgraceful if we were to come back and say that these school secretaries, who are key members of our school's staff, are going to have to wait until September with no job security over the summer months. Not only that, but pensions for school secretaries were not included in the pay deal. This morning I spoke to a school secretary who has been employed for 23 years and has no pension coming to her. When we look at the amount of money coming into the State, is it any wonder that schools are struggling when it comes to leadership and people taking up positions if we are treating the most important members of our staff in the education system in this way? It is over to the Minister at this stage. I hope that this is the end and not the start of the conversation. We were all on picket lines coming up to the last general election. It is nearly three years later and we have not seen a penny.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator O'Reilly for tabling this Commencement matter which I will be taking on behalf of the Minister for Education.

As the Senator will be aware, a very significant agreement was reached after extensive engagement between the Department of Education and Fórsa in relation to the terms and conditions of grant-funded school secretaries. The agreement provides for significant improvements in the terms and conditions of school secretaries. Fórsa recommended a package of measures to its members and a ballot resulted in 95% agreement in favour. Since then, in conjunction with Fórsa, work to implement this agreement has been ongoing in the Department. As part of the agreement, the Department is progressing the establishment of essential payroll services for school secretaries. The implementation of the agreement and the establishment of the central payroll service require data to be collected and analysed in order for each individual school secretary to be paid.

Last year, the Department issued Circular 36/2022 to schools in which it outlined how the agreement is to be implemented. This includes a requirement that as part of the first phase of implementation of the agreement, schools had to, by the end of September 2022, calculate the initial assimilation rate of pay and annual leave entitlement and offer it to each individual secretary working in the school. Entry into new pay arrangements is voluntary for existing members of staff. Where a secretary chose to move to the new terms and conditions, then the school was to pay the new rate of pay from September 2022. Following this initial process, a survey issued from the payroll division of the Department to all schools on 7 November 2022, seeking details of the offers made by the schools to their secretaries and any other information required to bring a secretary onto the payroll service. This survey closed in December and there was a high response rate. Based on the returns received, nearly 2,850 secretaries have accepted the offer made by their schools in line with the methodology set out in the circular. A small number of schools have yet to respond to the survey and the Department is following up with these.

The next phases of implementation which the Department is now progressing include the calculation of back pay to September 2021 as per the agreement; the payment of that back pay to individuals via the current grant process; the incorporation of national pay increases and increments into pay rates; and the annualisation of pay rates for secretaries who do not wish to apply for social protection benefits during school closures.

Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party)
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There is nothing new in this response. I still have no clarity on what will happen to the school secretaries this summer. That is really their main concern at this point. In addition, I do not want to get started on circulars and the way the Department deals with schools. The Minister of State is saying a small number of schools have not responded. It may be voluntary for school secretaries to take up this pay deal, but surely to God it cannot be voluntary for schools to send out a survey to find out what their school secretaries want out of this. I accept that the Minister of State is here on behalf of the Minister for Education, but I need to be assured that she will not allow even one school to fail to respond to this survey. Will the Minister of State voluntarily come back to the House and to me to say what will happen this summer in relation to these school secretaries? It does not make any sense to me that it would take nearly two years to get a payroll system up and running for school secretaries and yet we can have pay rises for people at a drop of a hat when it comes to politicians and other people in the public service.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I will relay Senator O'Reilly's comments to the Minister, Deputy Foley. I was a teacher and ironically, it is the school secretaries who will in most cases do the replies to the Department with respect to circulars. Everybody knows the value of the work they do and I saw it at first hand. The Senator's points are well made and I will ask the Minister to reply to her directly.