Barry Ward (Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire, an Teachta Harris, as ucht teacht isteach chun an cheist seo a fhreagairt. This is a question about coroners. As the Minister knows, the coronial service falls under his Department. It is an important service that provides answers to families and friends regarding a particular death. It also provides important measures for people to prevent similar deaths occurring. Many people do not know about the Coroner Service because, thank God, they have not had to deal with it. It is hoped that as few people as possible have to deal with it but when unexpected deaths occur, it falls to the coroner to step in. That could be a death in hospital or in custody, be it a mental health institution, prison or Garda station, a death from an accident or a death at home in unexplained circumstances. It is great we have a service that is independent and inquisitorial rather than adversarial, which helps to bring answers to us.

I work a lot with the Coroner Service in my other role. I know Dr. Myra Cullinane and many other coroners throughout the country who do excellent work in the circumstances they have to deal with. They are always dealing with somebody who is grieving in those cases, so it is a difficult job to do. Coroners are also under enormous and increasing pressure, especially in the aftermath of Covid, as we continue, including after long Covid, to have a slight increase in the number of deaths. As regards Dublin in particular, we recently passed legislation in this House that dealt with deputy coroners and provided for a greater spread of coronial capacity in the Dublin area. That is welcome.

There are other areas, however, where the Department needs to make provision. One of those relates to the city morgue and the number of pathologists available to conduct post-mortem examinations. Such examinations can be ordered by the coroner under section 33 of the relevant Act. The point is that in many cases, a post-mortem is required to establish the medical cause of death or the medical circumstances that actually led to the death, quite apart from the circumstances that may have caused the person to be deceased. Where there are not enough pathologists, there is a delay in the post-mortems that occur. Within the city morgue, I am aware of delays in that regard that are impactful both on the coronial service and, perhaps more importantly, the families of deceased people.

In Ireland, we generally deal with death quite well. We have a healthy attitude to it and we celebrate the life of the person who has died. Funerals in Ireland are important gatherings for communities, families and friends to say goodbye to a loved one. Sometimes, however, if there is a delay in the coronial process because of a lack of a pathologist and it takes longer for a post mortem take place, there is a huge delay in getting the remains of that person back to the family and the undertaker. I am aware, for example, that the representative bodies for funeral directors in Ireland are at their wits' end regarding some of the delays they have to face in getting mortal remains back so families can have that celebration. As I said, it is an important opportunity for families to say goodbye, celebrate the life of the person and allow them all to have some kind of closure in respect of it. It is desperately unfair if there is a situation where that process is so delayed that it takes away from it. We are not talking about days but weeks and, in some cases, longer because of delays relating to post-mortem examinations etc.

The reason I raise this issue is to ask the Minister to make greater provision, especially for the city morgue in Dublin and pathology services for post-mortem examinations, to ensure that we do not have delays and that bodies are returned to families and funeral directors in good time. This is necessary to allow undertakers to do the job they do and to allow families to have the celebration they need to have in order to gather closure and move on to deal with the loss they have suffered.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this important matter and for the opportunity it provides me to supply what I hope are some useful updates to the House on the issues he raised.

The Coroner Service is a network of coroners in districts throughout our country. As the Senator reminded us, coroners are independent, quasi-judicial officials whose function is to investigate sudden and unexplained deaths so that a death certificate can issue. This is an important public service to the living and, in particular, to the next of kin and friends of the deceased. I am very conscious of the point made by the Senator that it is often a function that needs to be carried out to enable the grieving process to advance, and enable the family and funeral gathering to take place. It is, therefore, important we thank our coroners for the work they do and support them. Coroners not only provide closure for those bereaved but also perform a wider public service because they can identify through their work matters of public health and safety concerns.

The Dublin district mortuary, DDM, is the responsibility of the Dublin senior coroner. This person is obviously an independent statutory officer. Neither I nor my Department have any role in that quasi-judicial coronial function. However, my Department has been responsible, as the Senator reminded us, for supporting the work of the Dublin district coroner’s office, including the DDM, in finance, staffing, administration and so on since 1 January 2018. Three additional temporary coroners have recently been appointed to facilitate what is a significant workload in the Dublin district. My Department has also facilitated the opening of two new Coroner's Courts in the Richmond Education and Event Centre, Dublin 7. This move is intended to increase the number of inquests that can be held annually and will support the Coroner Service in Dublin by continuing to provide independent and compassionate death investigation for families and the wider community.

I acknowledge that timeframes for the release of remains to families can vary. They are dependent on a number of factors, including the number of deceased persons who are cared for at the mortuary at any given time. This is somewhat unpredictable and can peak on occasion. It is certainly my intention, and that of my Department and the team in the DDM, to ensure that waiting times for post mortems are kept to a minimum. We are extremely conscious of the extraordinarily sensitive and vulnerable time at which these issues arise. If someone has already lost a loved one, they will desperately want the remains back so they can grieve the person with dignity and, as the Senator said, in the Irish traditions we practise relatively well in this country.

Waiting times for post mortems are influenced by a number of factors, including the following. In the Dublin district, a number of hospitals have withdrawn provision of pathology services for coroners' post mortems. This has put an increased pressure on the DDM in respect of body storage and post mortems. It is increasingly challenging to secure the services of histopathologists to carry out coroner-directed post mortems. In response to this challenge, my Department has now established a standing committee on the provision of coroner-directed post mortems. The DDM is staffed by a team of professional, committed and dedicated anatomical pathology technicians, APTs. The recruitment environment for APTs is challenging at present. In order to ensure the DDM is adequately resourced, officials in my Department have secured the services of two locums and are in the process of securing another. In an attempt to address the challenges in recruiting APTs, a trainee programme was launched in 2021 with two trainees now appointed. My officials are currently seeking to appoint new trainee APTs to generate a pipeline of staff into the future. I will also inform the Senator that officials are currently engaged in a process of recruiting a full-time mortuary manager this year.

I hope the Senator will take from my answer that a number of actions are under way to try to ensure we can keep waiting times to a minimum. I accept much more work needs to be done in this area. I will certainly ensure it continues to receive a focus.

Barry Ward (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. I take it from his answer that a number of matters are in train, which is very welcome. I also noted what he said about new coroners acting in Dublin to relieve the burden on the senior coroner. In fact, in many respects, it is astonishing we waited until the past few years to put them in place. I attended some of the inquests in the Richmond centre, which are absolutely welcome. Of course, as the Minister acknowledged, there is no point in having extra coroners if there is a delay earlier in the process. If we are not getting through the pathological services associated with post-mortem examinations and that is not being done, the inquest cannot take place if we do not have that medical report.

I acknowledge what the Minister said. I also acknowledge that fewer pathologists are available than we would like. If hospital services are not available, so be it, but I hope the Minister will take on board that, especially in Dublin, there is a particular pressure. With the number of deaths that occur in Dublin in hospitals etc., it is important we ensure families and people who work in this area are equipped with what they need to arrive at a point where they can gather closure in respect of a death.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I fully acknowledge that. It is very important that the Senator has highlighted and raised this issue.It is a sensitive and important matter which requires constant focus and attention. He is right that for this process to work seamlessly and efficiently requires all parts of the pipeline to work effectively. This is not in any way a criticism of the health service or hospitals. As the Senator highlighted, it may well be down to a lack of pathologists. However, the issue of hospitals withdrawing provision of pathology services has increased the challenges in terms of the pipeline working efficiently from examination to inquest. We are acutely aware of the impact delays in conducting post mortems can have on bereaved people and the team in the DDM engages with families of loved ones daily. They are at the front line talking to people in real time and trying to work through these situations in what can be quite a difficult environment. Officials in my Department will continue to do everything possible to ensure post mortems are performed in the Dublin district mortuary in as timely a matter as possible. I will continue to keep Senator Ward updated.