Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Heydon, to the House.

Barry Ward (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is welcome and I thank him for taking this. I know the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is indisposed this morning, but he is aware of this issue. In 2014, as the Minister of State, Deputy Heydon, will also be aware, the Local Government Reform Act was passed. It abolished town councils throughout Ireland. That is probably a debate for another day, but when the town councils were abolished, they were replaced with a different decision-making structure, which was done through municipal districts. They exist in every county, except Dublin, because there were no town councils in any of the four Dublin local authorities, except for Balbriggan, where the town council was abolished and not replaced. There were no town councils in the Galway City Council or Cork City Council areas either. None of those six local authorities, therefore, got municipal districts.

It is a problem for the six local authorities - Dublin City Council, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, South Dublin County Council, Fingal County Council, Galway City Council and Cork City Council - because decisions cannot be devolved to municipal districts and, therefore, every decision has to be made by the full council. This is a major block to the efficiency of decision-making within the local authority. If one was in Kildare County Council, for example, there is a municipal district in Athy and the decision can be made at a local level to do something and the full council has the power to devolve certain decision-making powers to Athy municipal district. That makes sense because rather than the councillors in Athy having to go back to the full Kildare County Council to ratify a decision, they can make that decision locally where they have the expertise, knowledge, local stakeholders, etc. That cannot be done in Dún Laoghaire, for example.

Within the local authorities such as Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, there are area committees. These are important committees that sit for four hours per month, twice a month, on the first and third Mondays. There are two area committees within Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, with Dún Laoghaire on one side and Dundrum on the other. However,, if the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown area committee decides to do something, they have to go back to the full council to make a decision on it, which means that there is further debate on it. There is a possibility that the area committee will be overturned by the council, although it is uncommon. Whatever happens, the few hours that the council has to meet every month is bound up in discussing matters that could have been decided at the area committee but because the area committee is not a municipal district committee, it cannot make those decisions. It seems that when the 2014 Act was passed, there was a gap in what was put in place to fill the places of town councils around the country, but not in these six local authorities. It means that decision-making is not streamlined in urban local authorities such as in Dublin, Cork and Galway. The reality is, therefore, that it restricts the ability of councillors to do the work, and it takes away time allocated to the overall council's business every month.

I am asking for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to actively look at putting municipal districts into those six local authorities to replace the area committees. It is an efficiency measure, it is a fairness measure and it is also a subsidiarity measure. It will allow decisions to be made at the most local level possible and, to my mind, it makes absolute sense. I am hoping the Department will be well-minded about that decision.

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising what is an important issue. He articulated it in terms that I can understand. When he started referencing Kildare and municipal districts, I could see the benefit of municipal districts and how they have worked well to streamline the decision-making process, so I can understand his frustration.

On behalf of my colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy O’Donnell, and the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, I wish to provide an update on the issue to the House. Unfortunately, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is unavailable to take this commencement matter. The system of municipal districts for sub-county decision-making was introduced, as the Senator knows, in the Local Government Reform Act. These reforms provided for the dissolution of 80 town councils and the establishment of 95 municipal districts. This was intended to address anomalies of the previous town council system, such as the lack of sub-county governance in rural areas and in larger towns without town council status. Municipal districts were also designed to improve integration between towns and hinterlands. Municipal districts were not introduced in the four Dublin local authorities or for Cork or Galway city councils, because the new system replaced town councils and aimed to extend sub-county governance to rural areas.

Introducing this system in urban local authorities would represent an additional element of local administration at variance with the aim of rationalisation and efficiency underpinning the reform programme. Instead, local area committees operate in a similar manner to municipal districts, notwithstanding the points the Senator raised regarding the difference between both of them.

I am informed that extensive consultation on municipal districts and area committees took place with the local government sector throughout 2021 and into 2022. From this process, a circular on best practice on the operation of municipal districts issued to local authorities at the end of 2022. It makes recommendations on the performance of reserved functions; modes of delivering services to the public and greater highlighting of these; promoting economic, social and cultural regeneration; development of their rural towns and hinterlands; enhanced training and development opportunities for members; and logistical arrangements to allow for the smooth operation of municipal districts.

A survey of elected members and local authority executives sought views on the operation of area committees and was followed by a series of workshops with elected members, officials and representative bodies to get more in-depth feedback. Further engagement will follow to progress matters raised and examine options to further enhance local government. The programme for Government established a citizens’ assembly to consider a directly elected mayor for Dublin, as the Senator will be aware. The assembly reported last month. Once considered by Government, the report will be passed to the Oireachtas and will be further considered by a joint Oireachtas committee, which will provide views to the Houses for debate. I understand that detailed consideration of the report has commenced within the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

Finally, the forthcoming local government (directly elected mayor) Bill 2023 will, inter alia, provide for the holding of plebiscites for a directly elected mayor of the administrative area of any local authority. Each of these processes could have a fundamental impact on the structures of local government and would, therefore, inform any future changes in respect of area committees or municipal districts, which would have to be considered.

Barry Ward (Fine Gael)
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I regret that the Minister of State has been given an answer to read out that substantially does not address the issue I have raised. Not only do area committees operate in a similar manner to municipal districts, they do exactly the same work.They do it without recognition for the status of that committee, without recognition for the chair of that committee and without the power to make decisions. It is desperately wasteful. All the chat about directly elected mayors is fine but it is entirely separate to the issue I am raising.

I do not understand why the Department cannot bring this forward. It is not something that needs to go to a citizen’s assembly or that requires significant consultation. It is a matter that can be fixed legislatively and if needs be, I will bring forward a Bill on it. The reality is that there are six local authorities around Ireland that do not get to do their business in an efficient way because the Department has hamstrung them by denying them the opportunity to have municipal districts. Will the Department respond to that, not with talk about directly elected mayors but with answers that will deliver for local communities in urban local authorities in Dublin, Galway and Cork?

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the points the Senator made and I accept his frustration in that regard. In each of the Dublin local authorities and on Cork and Galway city councils, where area committees exist, decisions can be made in local areas but, as he pointed out, those decisions have to then be brought forward to the council for further discussion. He made his point well on subsidiarity. We know about area committees and recommendations in practice. No more than when a local matter is discussed at full council, councils tend to look to local area representatives for their views and that tends to inform the view. However, that leaves it open to issues where someone in the north of a county such as Kildare could vote a certain way against a decision that impacts people in the south of the county, and that would not be particularly fair.

I understand the concern the Senator has about bringing that back and I will bring back the points where he outlined how he feels it is not efficient. The response I have tells me there has been a lot of consultation and I take that on board but the system of local area committees is similar to municipal districts and provides for local issues to be addressed in an efficient and effective way. Any change to the operation of area committees must consider the type of directly elected mayor and local government structures best suited to Dublin and other cities in the future. I know that is not the response the Senator wants to hear and I know he believes those are two separate things but that is the point and I will bring back to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, the views articulated today.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Before I go on to the next speaker I would like to welcome the students from Shanganamore National School in Athy. They are welcome, along with their teachers, and I hope they enjoy their visit to Leinster House.

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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We even gave an obligatory mention to Athy because they are here.