Micheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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In recent months, the Joint Committee on Autism, of which I am Chairperson, has been meeting with parents' groups from all over the country. A theme that keeps coming up is the lack of therapy services. When we drill down into that issue, we find there are more than 800 posts that are fully funded by the Government across all therapy services, including speech and language, occupational therapy and psychology, but which are not filled because we do not have qualified people available to take up the jobs within the HSE. The reality is that children are suffering.

I will give an example. At the Phoenix Centre in my home county of Longford, there was a period during the summer when only 3.8 posts were filled across the services to cover a county with a population of more than 45,000 people. There was a half-post for a speech and language therapist to look after children and schools. More than 230,000 children were on a waiting list for assessment of needs and more than 700 were waiting for services. The future looks very bleak because we do not have the people coming through the system to take up these posts. As I said, the posts are fully funded by the Government, which is important to acknowledge.

There must be an increase in the number of positions in third level colleges to train people to fill the posts across the services. There are only 100 places on occupational therapy courses between all the colleges in the country. A certain percentage of graduates will go abroad and another percentage will go into private practice. That leaves a narrow group of people to work within the HSE. We must increase dramatically the number of places in colleges and put graduate programmes in place. Otherwise, children will continue to suffer by not getting the services they need and deserve.

If we want to give children in this country an equal opportunity in life, we must ensure they can access these services at a young age. I recently visited a national school in my area, St. Joseph's National School in Longford, where I met parents who are massively concerned about these services. We need to take serious action to address the problem. The HSE has neglected forward planning in this area.

Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State with responsibility for disability services, Deputy Rabbitte, has described community healthcare organisation, CHO, 9, which covers Dublin West, as the most challenging of all areas when it comes to implementing reforms under the progressing disability services, PDS, programme. The children's disability network team, CDNT, in my area either cannot give a timeframe for when a child will be seen or it is saying it could take up to three years. In October, the Minister of State advised me there were 96 posts to fill across CHO 9 in speech and language therapy, occupational therapy and psychology. That represented an improvement from having 50% of posts filled to a 74% rate of posts filled. This week, I checked the figures for Dublin West. In Blanchardstown CDNT, 23% of the whole-time equivalent positions are unfilled. In Blakestown, the figure is 44%, and it is 48% in Cabra. An additional 29 whole-time equivalent staff are needed.

I do not need to tell the Minister of State the impact this has on families and schools. We saw it in the reports yesterday from the National Principals Forum, detailing principals' lack of confidence in the ability of the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, to provide for children with additional educational needs. There are periods when there are no special educational needs organisers, SENOs, or National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, psychologists appointed to individual schools. We have seen a delay in the reinstatement of therapies in special schools because the CDNTs are overwhelmed. Money is being thrown at this problem but when qualified people are just not there to fill the posts, we have another problem. An additional factor is that there are people who do not want to work for the HSE.

I commend the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, on his vision for transforming third level education. He is blowing up the pathways for learners to give them better opportunities and address skills shortages. He is putting a working group, a hub and new courses behind this strategy. Provision for training in therapies must be part of that effort. Another point to consider is that people's ability to find their purpose in life should not be based only on the points they get in the leaving certificate examination. There are many people, including parents, who have experience of these issues. Some of them have a vocation later in life to work in these areas. There should be the possibility to transfer from courses that offer some foundational experience.

In the case of psychology, 28% of posts in CDNTs are unfilled. The Psychological Society of Ireland has stated that another 322 psychologists are needed in the context of workforce planning. We need those places to be filled. The Minister is delivering them in medicine but they are also needed across clinical services, counselling and educational psychology. We must address the inequity in funding in those areas.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I thank the Senators for raising this matter. I am taking it on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, who are unable to be here.

The Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science is committed to engaging with all Departments and industry representative bodies to support them in their workforce planning needs. Officials meet regularly with colleagues in other Departments on workforce planning, particularly the Departments of Health, Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, and Education. This collaboration is vital. The Department stands ready to help others articulate their workforce needs and to establish whether increased provision is required.

In regard to therapy disciplines, a joined-up approach with the Departments of Health, Education and Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is necessary to determine system-level demand in any given discipline. Officials have met with the relevant Departments to discuss the requirements in the disability-related therapy teams. Ongoing engagements are planned to progress this work. Officials from the Department were also represented on the interdepartmental working group tasked with developing an action plan for disability services. The Department will work with the HSE and the Departments of Health and Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to progress actions arising out of the plan. The provision of healthcare through the therapies area is complex and involves many different parts of the system. The availability of appropriate placements and placement supports is a key enabler of this expansion. Engagement with the relevant Departments on these issues is ongoing.

When increasing capacity in any area of the education system, it is vital it is done in a sustainable way that maintains the high quality for which our education system is known.Earlier this year, the Minister, Deputy Harris, published Funding the Future, the Department's ambitious policy to address funding issues in the higher education sector, improve the quality of programmes and learning outcomes, and reduce the cost of education to students and their families.

Five priority strands of work were identified in the funding and reform framework one of which, specifically relates to driving skills and engagement, with a particular focus on essential public services. Work on these pillars of reform is being addressed through the Funding the Future reform and implementation group, which is chaired by the Minister, Deputy Harris, and its associated subgroups, led by co-chairs Professor Tom Collins and Professor Anne Looney.

The Higher Education Authority recently sought expressions of interest from higher education institutions interested in building capacity in dentistry, pharmacy, medicine, nursing and veterinary from academic year 2024-2025 or 2025-2026. This process was designed to respond swiftly to national skills needs and expressions of interest were sought from institutions with capability to expand existing courses in these areas. Crucially, the HEA has indicated that it hopes to run a further expression of interest in respect of therapy disciplines next year.

Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
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We know that we need to increase capacity in the areas of therapy and psychology. It is not just good for the children and people who need the service but blowing up those pathways will also allow entry to people who did not see that this was a path they might want to take when they were sitting the leaving certificate. There are major opportunities. I ask the Minister of State to bring back to the Minister the point that we want to see therapies as part of opening up opportunities and pathways for people. We must deliver therapies. It is an urgent situation and we need absolute focus and clarity on delivering these positions in our communities for these families.

Micheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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I concur with the Senator's comments. This is an issue we have raised with the Minister, Deputy Harris, and we compliment him and the Government for the investment in the third level education. However, I am slightly disappointed with the Minister of State's answer, to be quite honest. We have done expressions of interest in other areas, including dentistry and pharmacy, for the academic years of 2024-2025 or 2025-2026 yet we have not sought expressions of interest in respect of therapies. We are hoping to do so next year. Hope is not good enough, to be quite honest. This must happen soon. These places must be in place for the academic year 2023-2024. The situation is extremely serious and we want to give some sort of hope to parents and families that this can be addressed. It needs to be addressed in the academic year 2023-2024. Hope, I am afraid, is not good enough. It is not acceptable. This must be put in place.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I genuinely believe the Senators have hit on a crucial issue. The Minister, Deputy Harris, is committed and has made clear that planning for current and future public sector skills needs is a priority for his Department. Officials will continue to engage across Departments to progress the important area of workforce planning. I agree with the Senators' point about the HEA. We could all do with a little more information about the plan for expressions of interest in respect of therapies. It is worth pushing.