Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson. To clarify, I am sharing time with Senator Carrigy so do we have four minutes each?

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senators have two minutes each.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Nice try.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I tried my best but what can you do?

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should have known with a Kerryman in the Chair.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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Indeed. You cannot get around a Kerryman.

The Minister is very much aware of this important issue. Senator Carrigy and I tabled this Commencement matter to seek clarity about the new forestry programme. There has been significant worry in the industry, especially in the past two or three years, about afforestation rates and how we can move the sector forward. Unfortunately, the afforestation rate is at an all-time low and restoring confidence in the forestry sector has been a major issue for many of us. This new forestry programme is an important part of that and aims to get confidence back into the system. We need clarity regarding afforestation rates for 2023 and up to 2027 in order that people on the ground know what they can do.

We had hoped the new scheme would be announced around the time of the National Ploughing Championships and it would give an indication of what would be in the scheme so people could start planning. Unfortunately, that has not happened and we do not have an indication of the contents of the scheme. The timeline of the scheme is also a major issue. There are rumours it will be launched in January. We are now hearing from the rumour brigade that it may not happen until February, March, April or May. We need clarity that it will be launched in January and the rates, grants and premiums will be confirmed so the entire industry can have clarity.

Legacy licences are also an issue. I believe they will never be acted on because the majority of the licenceholders have moved on to other farming enterprises and may never get involved in the forestry sector.

It appears likely we will have a large cohort of foresters with nothing to do for the next six, eight or 12 months until the licensing scheme under the new programme is put in place. The knock-on effect is that we could have people left with no jobs and plants destroyed. I heard of such cases last week. It would be helpful if the Minister could provide clarity on these issues.

Micheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson and the Minister for taking this important Commencement matter. I am speaking on behalf of farmers in my local community in Longford-Westmeath. I have met the chair of the forestry committee of the Irish Farmers' Association, IFA, and individual landowners who are looking for certainty and want to plant in future. I have spoken to Glennon Brothers, one of the biggest companies in this country which also operates abroad. It provides timber products throughout Ireland and the UK and is responsible for hundreds of jobs in my community in Longford and also in Cork. It also has a factory in Scotland. Glennon Brothers is looking for certainty that the company will have a future. I cannot understand why we do not have clarity about the funding available to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to move the new forestry programme forward. As Senator Lombard stated, it was our understanding that this scheme would be ready for the National Ploughing Championships and we now hear it might not be ready until April or May. We are looking for certainty on behalf of the landowners who want to plant their land. We want to increase the amount of land we plant, yet we cannot tell the people who are considering planting what the grants or premiums will be with any certainty. Individual landowners will make alternative decisions with their land.

I ask the Minister to provide clarity on whether the Department for Public Expenditure and Reform has allocated funding to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine for a scheme to be put in place. Will he also confirm that we will hear what those premiums and grants are sooner rather than later? April 2023 is far too late; we need this now.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson and Senators Lombard and Carrigy. I welcome the opportunity to address this issue in the Seanad. The Minister of State, Senator Hackett, is otherwise engaged and could not be here. I am happy to address the matter.

We want to be in a position to ensure people have clarity about the new rates before the start of January in order that they can plan and afforestation will proceed. The programme will be 100% funded by the Exchequer, as has been the case for previous forestry programmes. It is not co-funded by the European Commission. It is all national funding and the payment of the grants and premiums is an integral part of the programme and vital to encourage an increase in afforestation over the coming decade.Before I deal with the issue of the approval of this funding, it is worth reflecting on the efforts to date to design a shared vision for forestry in Ireland, which of course informs the new programme. Following extensive engagement and consultation, Ireland has, for the first time, a Shared National Vision for Trees and Forests, which was published on 12 September 2022. This shared national vision is ambitious and calls for an expansion of multifunctional and diverse forests, delivering multiple benefits for climate, nature, wood production, water quality, people, the economy and rural development. The overarching statement of this vision provides for:

The right trees in the right places for the right reasons with the right management supporting a clean, healthy and well protected environment and a sustainable economy and society.

With due consideration given to the shared national vision, a new forest strategy to 2030 has also been developed, which is underpinning a new forestry programme that will run from early 2023 to late 2027. The strategy's implementation plan comprises a list of actions and measures, including the forestry programme for the period, which will be the main implementation vehicle for the forest strategy in the immediate to short term.

The forestry programme is subject to an ongoing strategic environmental assessment and appropriate assessment process. As part of this process, it is currently out for public consultation. Together with the draft forest strategy and associated environmental reports, the draft forestry programme was published on my Department's website last week and will be open for public consultation until 29 November 2022. This means that stakeholders and interested parties will be aware of the measures and schemes being proposed under the next programme and will have an opportunity to submit any feedback they may have. I encourage anyone with an interest in the future of forestry to participate in this consultation. Once the public consultation process has been completed, the submissions received will be considered in the finalisation of the programme.

I acknowledge that the draft programme, as published, does not include the proposed changes to grant and premium rates. I am aware of the need to make these details available at the earliest opportunity. Having secured an additional €12 million in budget 2023 for forestry to reach a total budget of €112 million, my Department is engaged in detailed and ongoing discussions with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform around the entire funding package for the new programme, particularly regarding the new grant and premium rates. Once we get approval for the new grants and premium rates from that Department, we will make them known. This will be on the understanding that they will be subject to securing state aid approval from the European Commission.

It is my intention to introduce a programme which will deliver for society, landowners and the forestry sector in Ireland. A comprehensive and well-subscribed forestry programme has the potential to deliver lasting benefits for climate change, biodiversity, wood production, water quality, economic development and quality of life. I am hopeful that once the programme is launched, public and private actors will support it to realise its ambition.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for his response. Our original intention was to table this Commencement matter and seek a response from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, before it was changed, because we believe there is an issue here that we need clarified by that Department concerning the rates of payment and timelines for this programme. Reading the report, it is clear that approval must be given to the proposal first by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It then goes to the European Commission and can then be launched. I think this is the timeline being proposed.

We are weeks away from Christmas, and mid-term is next week. I am genuinely concerned that we need to get clarity on this scheme. We have no timelines and no indication when it is going to begin. The people we spoke to told us about job losses and a lack of confidence in the sector. The last thing we need now is for January 2023 to arrive without this programme having been announced. That would be a disaster for the entire industry. I am genuinely concerned in this regard. I emphasise the need for urgency here. Perhaps the Minister might be able to provide us with some timelines concerning when he proposes to launch the scheme.

Micheál Carrigy (Fine Gael)
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Following on from Senator Lombard's comments, I am also concerned about this matter. We are hearing about job losses, a lack of confidence, no timelines and blockages. We need certainty, as do the people in this industry considering laying off employees and the landowners contemplating alternatives. Otherwise, we are not going to hit the ambitious targets we have set out for afforestation.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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We will be giving this certainty. The situation now is that the strategy has been published.A public consultation is ongoing and will be completed by the end of November. We have not yet published information on the grant aids and premiums that will be in place from January 2023. We are finalising those with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. What is clear is that they will be attractive and higher than the outgoing scheme. The engagement we are having is about the size of the overall funding over the course of the programme and, therefore, how strong the rates can be. We want to give that clarity in advance of January.

The new programme will start in January. I know it is proving to be a challenge because people are reluctant to start planting before the new programme comes in as they know the rates are likely to increase. However, it will be a strong and good story for the sector. We need to instil confidence and drive it on. We want people to plant. We want new afforestation to drive on from January. We will give clarity in advance of January as to the rate. Like everything, it will be subject to state aid approval and needs approval from the Commission. We cannot give a black-and-white answer and a 100% guarantee, but we expect approval to come.

Once we can provide clarity on the rates we are planning to set, people will know and understand the system. The rates will be higher. I advise people who are thinking about applying to plan and work ahead on the basis that the rates will be published in advance of January and they should plan to be in a position to do that work. We need to increase our afforestation rates. It is a massive priority for the Government and we will back it financially to drive it on.

We have worked hard to address the backlog in licensing, which is undermining confidence. The backlog is reducing every week and we are driving it down. We are almost at the stage of equilibrium. We want new afforestation applications in particular and we will back that with grant rates. We will try to provide clarity on what they will be as soon as possible, and certainly in advance of 1 January 2023.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his time and giving such full answers. I omitted Senator Carrigy's final contribution. I beg his pardon.