Regina Doherty (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion regarding arrangements for the sittings of the House on Tuesday, 25 October, and, Wednesday, 26 October 2022, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 2, Private Members' business, Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2020 – Second Stage (resumed), to be taken at 1.15 p.m., to conclude after 20 minutes and not withstanding Standing Order 45, the Minister is to be allocated a further contribution of four minutes prior to the response by the proposer; and No. 3, Private Members' business, Civil Registration (Amendment) (Certificate of Life) Bill 2022 – Second Stage, to be taken at 1.45 p.m., with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed two hours.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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We support the Order of Business, naturally. I will begin by welcoming the announcement by the Central Bank that it will change its mortgage lending rules for the first time to relax the restrictions on how much money people can borrow in order to finance a house purchase. We must all be conscious of not burdening people with too much debt but we accept that we need to loosen up some more money for people who are desperately trying to buy houses at present. As the Leader knows, from January 2023 first-time buyers will be able to borrow up to four times their salaries for a mortgage. It was about three and a half times. It should be noted that the Central Bank stated that separated or divorced people may now be considered first-time buyers as part of a fresh start policy - this is has been an issue for politicians up and down the country - as long as they no longer have an interest in their former properties. I welcome that as well. This proposal will bring new life to the construction industry, especially in regard to those badly needed and absolutely necessary houses. A number of major construction companies intend to up the ante of their building programmes from January 2023, which is good news. With the pandemic and the situation in Ukraine, businesses, particularly those in construction, have had difficulty getting off the ground properly. I welcome that news and hope it will be of benefit to the many people who are currently trying to get on the property ladder.

We should also acknowledge, as I am sure the Leader will, the amazing performance of the Irish ladies' boxing team in the European championships. At this stage it has seven bronze medals, which has never been done before by any boxing team - male or female. Some of those medals will hopefully turn silver and gold. It is an extraordinary feat by any country, especially a little island like Ireland, that we have people like Aoife O'Rourke from my county of Roscommon, Kellie Harrington, Caitlin Fryers, Amy Broadhurst, Christina Desmond, Michaela Walsh and Shannon Sweeney. They have all brought glory to Ireland in this championship and it is not over yet. It is fantastic and I am sure all Members, including the Leader and the Cathaoirleach, will join me in congratulating them in a major way.

Finally I will address an issue that has been ongoing for some time. I ask that every avenue be explored to ensure the €1,000 payment to people, particularly those who worked in nursing homes during the pandemic, is paid without further delay. I accept that issues have arisen that probably no one foresaw, but it is extraordinary that 46,000 people who worked in nursing homes are still waiting for the payment. It is everyone's wish that we get the payment over the line as quickly as possible.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I concur with Senator Murphy in congratulating the boxers on a fantastic achievement.

I ask that the Minister of State at the Department of Health with responsibility for mental health and older people, Deputy Butler, come to the House to discuss the ongoing issues in nursing homes and care of the elderly. The Home and Community Care Ireland annual conference today will hear that six in ten people are concerned about how they will be cared for in old age. It is a worrying and startling figure. I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is doing a tremendously good job and has gained a welcome increase in the budget as regards the amount of money available, but Nursing Homes Ireland has told us that 16 nursing homes have closed in the past year, with 450 beds lost. It is a complete failure of the system if 450 beds are lost or 16 nursing homes are closed. I would like to have a debate with the Minister of State about the matter because a society is judged by how we look after our elderly at their time of most particular need. I know we want to keep people at home as long as possible and that is the overarching philosophy and principal of Government policy but it requires community intervention and a radical change of policy in how we look after people. We have made changes to the fair deal scheme and that is welcome but we should be looking at and doing other things as well.

I also ask that we invite the Minister for the Environment, Climate Action and Communications to the House to discuss the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, report that revealed that only 51% of Ireland's sewage is treated to EU standards to protect the environment. The European average, according to the EPA, is 90% and if we are to have a discussion about the European Union water framework, it is important we have that debate with the Minister as a matter of urgency. It is worrying to see this. When Noel Dempsey was the Minister a big sewerage treatment plant was built in Dublin, which was meant to be the pathway and panacea for everything, and suddenly today we see that only 51% is treated. It is important to hold those debates as a matter of urgency.

I congratulate the Cathaoirleach on the visit of the President of Portugal yesterday. It was great to have him in the Chamber. It illustrates the importance of this House and I commend the Cathaoirleach on that.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Buttimer and all the colleagues who were here for his visit and his signing of the visitors' book in the Reading Room.Diplomacy, like politics, is a contact sport and the new friendship group, which is being led by Senators from across all of the parties here, will ensure that we engage with our Portuguese colleagues and continue to work with them on the issues of Brexit. Without the support of countries like Portugal, we would not be in the situation we are today in respect of the issues of borders on this island. I call Senator Keogan to speak now, please.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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I thank the Chairman. "Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is forcing Ireland to rethink its long tradition of military neutrality." This is not the conjecture of some online theorist, or the fear-mongering of a political radical, but it is a quote from our Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs. Speaking last week he said that public opinion may not be ready but he thought that a citizens’ assembly might take a look at the question with a view to amending the national stance of non-membership of military alliances. This is shocking stuff. Ireland’s military neutrality has its origins in the birth of the State, making it as time-honoured a fixture of our international identity as is possible. That would be a drift towards its erasure, or for it to be steered behind the cover of a foreign conflict is unconscionable.

The vast majority of Irish people correctly hold our neutrality in high esteem and I for one do not want to sit and watch that being cynically undermined by concerted efforts in the service of supernational interests. Some proponents of a more hands-on approach to war may feel as if our neutrality has us sitting on the sidelines when we could be helping. Nothing could be further from the truth. The sustained neutrality of countries such as Ireland allow us to be highly trusted brokers of peace on the international stage and to lead by example in that regard.

In other news, the intense public scrutiny of the European Commission’s deal to purchase up to 1.8 billion Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine doses is now being matched by official scrutiny. The European Public Prosecutor's Office, EPPO, has confirmed that it has an ongoing investigation into the acquisition of Covid-19 vaccines in the EU. The European Court of Auditors has already found that a joint negotiation team was not involved in striking the Pfizer vaccine deal, in direct violation of a previously agreed protocol. Allegations have been levelled at Pfizer’s CEO negotiating the contract through text messages with the Commission’s President, where this will see his product dominate the EU’s vaccine portfolio until the end of 2023. These texts have since been deleted. He must have studied the Irish school of diplomatic politics.

The European Court of Auditors established that Dr. von der Leyen had intervened in early talks with Pfizer and had sidelined the usual negotiating teams to personally hash out a preliminary deal. Further information was sought from the Commission on this but, however, none was forthcoming. We are not expected to hear anything more until the investigators themselves offer more clarity on the matter, or journalists do it for them. Some millions of eyes are now on the European Commission and I am sure that we are all looking forward to what will be seen. I thank the Chairman.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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This is a very serious matter because since I have become a Senator, we have had a great opportunity with a thing we called Commencement matters, but the way that Commencement matters went this morning, I wonder if there is any point in them. I asked a very clear question of the Minister for Education around school transport and to ask what will the school transport section of the Department of Education do to rectify the situation with school transport issues and, in particular, the route from Inagh to Ennis. The answer I received was appalling. It was completely pointless, a waste of time and told me everything we already know about the increase in numbers. It is not just the Inagh route, which has been running for 50 years, but many schools have been affected by this. Perhaps this is because it is a rural issue and that the people working in the school transport section of the Department are in cities, where they have great transport options, but 57 children were left at the side of the road last Tuesday and, nine days later, nothing has happened.

I asked a very clear question as to what the Department was going to do. The Commencement matter was accepted by the Cathaoirleach, a Minister of State who did not have anything to do with the Minister for Education came into the Chamber, which I suppose is the way these things are, but the reply was condescending, patronising and absolutely useless. Not only was it disappointing to me, I felt deeply disappointed by it and I question the whole idea of Commencement matters, but this was also the case for the parents and the students. How disappointed they must feel with this completely useless response.

It is great that we have free school transport but it seems that the Department has done nothing about increasing the quantity of qualified bus drivers or the number of school buses that are available. Now we have a case where there are thousands of students and their parents all over Ireland in absolute chaos about how to get to school. Many of these children live 16 km to 17 km from school. Their parents are at work and cannot drive them there or afford to drive them because of the cost of petrol. This is a very serious issue which affects thousands of pupils.

I understand how this was such a great idea, because there was significant demand, but did the Department not know there was going to be a big demand? This was a very clear question and I ask the Cathaoirleach to perhaps go back to all of the Ministers to explain to them the concept of Commencement matters where, if Members are asking a question, they want an answer to that question and not a three-page spiel about something that is not answering the question at all. Otherwise, as Senators, we are wasting our time coming in here for Commencement matters.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senator for her contribution. If the Senator would like to write into the Seanad Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight, she would be more than welcome to do so. We have no control over what Ministers say when they come into the Chamber.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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Can the Cathaoirleach do so as Cathaoirleach or do I have to do that?

Regina Doherty (Fine Gael)
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I will do that.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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Okay, the Leader will do it.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can write to me.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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Okay.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Colleagues have raised the fact that they have put in Commencement matters and the question that is answered is not the question that was asked.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Garvey is correct in that the Senator may receive a tome of context but sometimes the answer is not given at all. We are Government Seanad Members, but it is as frustrating for us as well.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Our next speaker is Senator Boyhan. Senators are being called as they are here.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I raise two issues. One is related to the “Prime Time” programme on O’Connell Street in Dublin city. What a shame and a disgrace it is. This is not about laying the blame on anybody. I circulated a small memo this morning to all Dublin city councillors of all political parties. Within ten minutes I received seven or eight responses at least. In two or three cases they said that we did not need another task force for Dublin city; we need resources, responsibility and accountability.

Clearly, in Dublin City Council, it is in the interest of its executive and elected members to run a good city but it is the capital of the country and a city. To see the deprivation, the vandalism, the violence, and the taking of drugs openly on the street, is a shame. Although alarmed as I am, I am around long enough, as are we all, and we understand the social as well as the economic consequences in our city and we have to recognise that there are underlying issues. We are talking about people, circumstance, disadvantage and a whole range of issues. This is a holistic approach. Yes, it is about rebuilding and maintaining the fabric of our city but it is also about addressing why so many vulnerable people are on the edges, hanging around at night. Have they no place to go? There is a social dimension here, which is important. It is too easy to be critical and to say that it needs to be cleaned up. It needs to be cleaned up but the underlying issue is around the social issues of disadvantage, why people are there, and congregating there. I would like to feed into that issue.

It is important. We have asked before and we need a comprehensive debate about local government, on which I believe we are all agreed. Matched with that is local government funding. At a time when the citizens’ assembly is now doing its final report which will come before the Oireachtas, where we are talking about a mayor for Dublin, we need to look at the bigger issue of governance for everywhere, but particularly in Dublin city on this issue. A multifaceted approach and response is needed. Perhaps at some time we could have a debate, in particular on Dublin, but about local government generally as well.

Finally, I renew my call for a debate on agriculture at some time in the future in the Seanad. I thank the Cathaoirleach.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I highlight to the House today the plight of workers in the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre, the services of which I am sure many Members have availed. I, for one, am all in favour of the modal shift and of getting people out of their cars, on to public transport, using pedestrianisation and cycling, when possible but we know that the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre is steeped in corruption in respect of where it was located. It was supposed to be-----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should be careful in her comments.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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What happened with the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre, I believe, is well documented as to why it was built beside a motorway and not in the community where it was supposed to be, which would have made it accessible by foot to many members of the community. Staff in Liffey Valley Shopping Centre have suddenly been informed that they must now park in an overflow car park at a cost of €2.50 a day. Not only that, but the public can also park in that same overflow car park, which creates capacity issues causing great stress to the workers. In addition, there are only 550 car parking spaces for over 2,000 members of staff. The car parking could cost staff up to €600 per year and these changes are to come into operation on Monday.To put it in perspective, €600 per year will wipe out the energy credit the workers are due to get. It is effectively a pay cut for the staff in Liffey Valley. Senators may have seen that the workers were out protesting at the weekend. I express my solidarity with each and every one of them. This seems an outrageously costly change for staff. The reason given by management for the change was a decision to shift towards more sustainable modes of transport, but that just does not add up. The infrastructure is not there. It is coming but the location of the shopping centre is problematic for people trying to get to it. As we face cost-of-living increases, the workers are now going to be charged just to go to work. The management of Liffey Valley needs to review the change and continue to talk to staff, unions and tenants because staff at the centre should not be out of pocket because of these changes.

I have seen some commentary whereby people have stated that it is only €2.50, but that is still €2.50 out of your pay cheque just to get to work. Also, most of the workers are not able to get into that overflow car park. One worker was saying that the car park is full from morning-time, and workers may be on late shifts. Parking then costs €12.50 per day. Thus it will cost workers €12.50 per day to go to work. I reiterate my solidarity with the Liffey Valley workers. As I said, I am all in favour of a modal shift but you cannot just bring in something overnight when workers do not have an alternative, especially those who work late.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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This is a rare occasion. I would like to comment on Senator Garvey's contribution. I was there this morning. The response read out by the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke, was a disgrace. It was a very appropriate question. As that question has been asked on school transportation and given the way the rules of the Seanad work, it will be six months before we can go back into that circle. We got a bluff of an answer. We have kids who want to get a school bus and we have a Minister of State who did not answer the question. We are going to have to find another way to deal with this because what happened here, when you look at the blacks, was frightening. The Department did not look at the question, did not deal with it and now it has blanked off the situation for the next six months. I am not putting the Cathaoirleach on the spot but it is his responsibility to ensure that we get fair play. We were wronged this morning. Schoolchildren all over Ireland were wronged. I had parents watching the response. The phones lit up like Christmas because of what happened here. We need to have a fair process in place so we can get a decent response to questions.

What happened here was just unbelievable. I have been here since 2016 and have never heard a response like it. Senator Garvey can write in but the Cathaoirleach has a responsibility to protect us from what happened here. I cannot happen again. The school transport issue has not gone away. There are kids in west Cork today who do not have a school bus and they have no ability to get tickets at the moment because we cannot get a response.

Regina Doherty (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I cannot raise this issue for the next six months because of the bluff we got earlier. Do we need to go suspending Standing Orders? Do we need to put down motions? I am not sure where to go next, but the kids of west Cork deserve better, the kids of Ireland deserve better and to be perfectly honest this House deserves better than what we got this morning. I put it to the Cathaoirleach that he needs to intervene directly with the senior Minister and come back to us next week, because we cannot have this. If we do, there is no point in putting down Commencement matters.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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As politicians, we often give out about our health services. I went out for a run this morning, tripped, fell on my face - I am fine, though it is not obvious - and ended up in the Mater Hospital. I give huge thanks to all the staff in the Mater's emergency department. They are just tremendous given what they deal with and we are very lucky to have them and everybody who works in our health service.

I also wish to address the commentary that has been going on all week about O'Connell Street. It is our country's main street and our capital's main street. It is a street I walk on almost every day. I would take offence at and be insulted by the commentary if it was not so ignorant and ill-informed. That O'Connell Street has its problems is indisputable - and there is scope for improvement - but I do not accept the narrow characterisation of it that has been articulated by others. I am not going to repeat the ill-informed and wholly inappropriate language that was used. I invite the Deputy who spoke in the Dáil to come to O'Connell Street with me, spend a day and walk around. I also invite the Minister, who has put such a high level of dependency and people in need of additional services concentrated in this one tiny area.

A big part of the dereliction element of O'Connell Street is the Moore Street site that runs from Henry Street all the way up to Parnell Street on the western side of O'Connell Street. The State owns Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street. I am hoarse from raising this matter in the House, as the Cathaoirleach knows. I have tabled multiple Commencement matters on it. Just before the summer break, I tabled one and got a commitment from the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, OPW, that works would commence on the national monument within weeks. In fact, I was told it would be in three to four weeks. The OPW is yet to commence those works. It is October and will soon be November. I would appreciate it if the Leader asked the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW to give us a date for commencement of works on a commemorative centre at the national monument. She might also ask the Minister of State with responsibility for drugs and the Minister for Justice to engage with the city council and local gardaí to address the issues that exist. O'Connell Street is about more than those issues. It is our main thoroughfare, there is beautiful architecture on it and we must all champion it and work with stakeholders to bring it up to its former glory.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I again raise Shannon Heritage and the matter of what exactly is happening with it and with the funding requested by Clare County Council. It has been going on and on and there are many workers in Shannon Heritage who are very uncertain of what their future holds. There should be some way of having a debate or even statements on the future of Shannon Heritage because of its importance to the tourism offering in County Clare. There is major potential for growth. All that is required is the financial commitment from Government to upgrade the sites. It would complement the Cliffs of Moher visitor experience greatly if we had upgraded Bunratty and Craggaunowen visitor experiences. This issue has been going on and on but we are coming towards the end of the year now. Marketing plans and budgets are being put in place for 2023 yet Clare County Council does not know whether it is coming or going with respect to what it is to do or what its role will be with Shannon Heritage.

We should also have a debate on flooding with the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW, Deputy O'Donovan. A great deal of money has been spent on flood relief schemes and coastal protection in County Clare. In Lahinch alone, something like €12 million has been spent over the past few years on coastal protection. Money has been spent in Ennis. South-east Clare has always been a challenge but there are many other parts of the country that are worried, having seen the inclement weather of the last week or so. It is an important issue we need to be regularly updated on. We need to know what the plans are for the next few years. It would be a debate many Members would find interesting. The people who watch us, especially those who live in areas where there is the constant threat of flooding, would be very interested in an update from the Minister of State.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Leader to respond.

Regina Doherty (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and colleagues. Senator Conway wants two debates. One is specific to a small number of Members but it is extremely important because all the Members from his area have raised on numerous occasions the funding for the transfer of the heritage sites to the county council. Clearly, there is no response that is satisfactory to the Members, so I will see if I can organise statements for 60 minutes on it. The Senator is also looking for a debate on flooding. I will talk to the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW and see if we can get him to come back.

God bless Senator Fitzpatrick; I wish her a speedy recovery because she looks like she did a serious amount of damage to her face on her run this morning. She commended the staff in the Mater Hospital who looked after her. She is also looking for a response from the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW on the matter of works on Moore Street that have been due for commencement for a long time now. Senators Lombard and Garvey both raised the response on school transport received earlier from the Minister of State. I did not have the chance to read it. Following the Order of Business, I will look at the response. More important, I will write to the Chair of the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight, who is the Cathaoirleach, to discuss the matter. To be honest, that does not get us the answers we need. While discussions took place earlier, I contacted my office. I am scheduling statements on school transport for 60 minutes next week. The schedule Senators have received will have to be amended and I will add 60 minutes to it. I have been told the Minister is not available, but somebody needs to be available to discuss this on behalf of the hundreds, if not thousands, of children who do not have school transport. It is coming up to the end of October. We need answers, and we need them now. On the basis of that, we can go down the route of complaining to the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight and change Standing Orders. Alternatively,we can go down the route of giving the Minister an opportunity to send someone to speak on her behalf, if she cannot come to the House, and provide substantive and qualitative answers next week as to when children in the communities we represent who do not have school bus transport will receive it. I will arrange that for next week and send Senators a copy of the letter.

Senator Boylan stood in solidarity with the workers of Liffey Valley. It is the most ham-fisted attempt to try to get people onto bikes and buses that I have ever seen in my life. I support the Senator in raising the issue today. I am not sure if there is anything we can do. If the House thinks there is anything we can do collectively as a body, Senators can speak to me afterwards and we can certainly do it. It has made a hames of something that should have been good, had some thought and planning been put into it.

Senator Boyhan asked for a debate on local government funding and governance. In fairness, he has asked for that debate a number of times and the request has gone in. I will remind the Minister of it once again. Equally as important, he asked for a debate on agriculture, which I will organise in the next couple of weeks.

Senator Keogan spoke about statements made, one assumes, on behalf of Irish citizens by one of our Ministers of State. I do not believe they represent the views of the vast majority. I am all for transparency in conversations and having open discussions, but we should not make assumptions about what Irish people think. The assumption one might make is far more in line with the views of people. On the same note, I am glad that Ursula von der Leyen made decisions, albeit that they were not as transparent as they could have been, a couple of years ago when the European Union was fighting for vaccines for its citizens. Obviously, those discussions and transparency will come into play once the investigation is finished.

Senator Buttimer asked for a debate on nursing home closures, in particular in respect of the care of older people in the future. More people are getting older today than was the case in generations gone by. It is a timely debate that is needed. The Minister is not available at the moment, but as soon as she is I will book her in. The Senator also asked for a debate on the EPA report released this morning.

Senator Eugene Murphy welcomed the Central Bank changes, in particular the policy for people who have separated or divorced, which will give them the capacity to buy houses.

Senators Murphy and Buttimer wished continued success to our Irish ladies boxing team, and I do the same on behalf of everybody in the House. The ladies are punching above their weight in all sports, boxing in particular, for the past while. We wish them continued success and thank them for the joy they give us.