Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House and I thank him for taking this debate.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I welcome our guests in the Gallery and they are all very welcome. I would never judge anyone for their mileage because I live in a county that is only 10 km by 10 km, so I understand that some have a greater challenge than me.

Having regard to the continued rise in electricity prices, I am pleased to commend the Electricity Costs (Domestic Electricity Accounts) Emergency Measures and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2022 to the House. I shall open this debate by setting the broader context for the action to be taken on foot of this legislation, which will establish an electricity costs emergency benefit scheme II under which a total of €550 will be paid to each of 2.2 million domestic electricity accounts in three payments between November of this year and April of next year at an estimated cost to the Exchequer of €1.2 billion.

Everyone in this House will be only too well aware of the impacts we are seeing from the continued and unprecedented rises in the cost of energy driven in a very large part by the volatility in international gas markets caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The steep increases in gas prices brought about by the invasion are also leading to windfall gains for some energy companies across Europe, especially those companies involved in the production of fossil fuels and those who produce energy at a much lower cost than the cost of gas.

On 30 September, the Council of Energy Ministers agreed the EU Council regulation on an emergency intervention to address high energy prices and windfall gains. The headline measures agreed include a voluntary overall reduction target of 10% of gross electricity consumption and a mandatory reduction target of 5% of the electricity consumption during peak hours; a temporary solidarity contribution based on taxable profits for fossil fuel production and oil refining; and a cap on market revenues of for specific technologies in the electricity sector which have not seen significant increases in costs, so that includes wind and solar. This is known as the windfall tax. Estimates of the potential revenues that may be realised from a solidarity payment and from a windfall tax are currently being prepared by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. Estimates will depend on policy choices related to the flexibilities that are set out in the regulation and will depend on the wholesale gas price over the coming months. The cap on market revenues must be implemented by the start of December and the solidarity contribution must be implemented by the end of December.

The Government is keenly aware of the impact of this volatility on consumers as a household electricity bill has now increased from an estimated annual average of €1,006 in January 2021 to €2,020 in October 2022. In the face of an impact on this scale, the big advantage of this scheme is that it uses the meter point registration number, MPRN, to identify accounts and ensure payments are made directly and automatically to those accounts without the need for means testing, application or approval. This meant that, under the first scheme, payments could be made directly to 2,138,939 domestic electricity accounts or over 99.36% of all eligible accounts, including pay as you go.

It is important to be clear that this scheme is just one part of a much wider package that includes targeted measures. Particularly important in this context is the €400 lump sum for recipients of the fuel allowance. This is in addition to the €924 people entitled to the allowance receive over the winter and goes along with the broadening of the threshold for this benefit.

I will now outline the Bill's subject matter and how the scheme will operate. The Bill provides for the establishment of a scheme for the purpose of making the electricity cost emergency benefit payments of €183.49 to domestic electricity accounts to be paid in each of the November-December 2022, January-February 2023 and March-April 2023 billing cycles. The moneys for the scheme will be allocated by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas. The amount will not exceed €1.211 billion. This figure makes provision for 2.2 million domestic electricity accounts. The Commission for the Regulation of Utilities, CRU, will provide oversight of the scheme. It will put in place administrative and operational arrangements to ensure ESB Networks - ESBN - and suppliers perform their functions under the scheme. It will be operated by the distribution system operator, ESB Networks and electricity suppliers.

The Minister, Deputy Ryan, will provide, under regulations, for a date, to be known as the relevant date, on which the distribution system operator will calculate the total number of domestic electricity accounts in the State, based on MPRNs. ESBN will notify the Minister of this number, which will allow the estimation and necessary allocation of moneys for the scheme. On the effective dates for each payment period, which will also be set out in regulations, ESBN will notify each electricity supplier of the assigned MPRN for each domestic electricity account they supply and the amount of money they will transfer to them for the purposes of the scheme. The Minister will set out in regulations the payment periods within which ESBN will transfer the funds to suppliers for the sole purpose of making payments under the scheme. Following receipt of these funds, suppliers will then, within the payment periods set out in this Act, credit each domestic electricity account held with it on the effective date with a payment of €183.49. Suppliers and ESBN are required to repay any moneys received by them which have not been used for the purposes of the scheme.

I will provide a section-by-section summary of the Bill, which has 13 sections. Section 1 is a standard provision which provides for definitions, while section 2 provides for the establishment of the scheme. It provides for the allocation of the moneys for the scheme, up to €1.211 billion, by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

Section 3 provides the basis for the transfer by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, to the distribution system operator of the moneys for the operation of the scheme. This will be paid to domestic accounts in three payments of €183.49, excluding VAT.

Sections 4 and 5 provide for the functions of the distribution system operator and suppliers, respectively, for the purposes of the operation of the scheme. Section 6 provides for the amendment of section 9 of the Electricity Regulation Act to create the oversight functions for the CRU.

Section 7 deals with an amendment to the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997. This amendment is to exempt the electricity costs emergency benefit payment from income tax.

Section 8 provides for the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to make regulations, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, for the purposes of the Act. Section 9 provides that the distribution system operator and electricity suppliers shall bear their own expenses.

Section 10 provides for a drafting amendment to section 34 of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 to include specific reference to the relevant market participants registration framework established under Part IIIA of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999, in the context of terms for connection to and use of transmission or distribution systems, to make it clear that relevant market participants can enter into

Section 11 provides for the amendment of section 35 of the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927 to include specific reference to the relevant market participants registration framework established under Part IIIA of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999, to make it clear that relevant market participants can sell electricity or supply electricity for sale.

Section 12 amends the National Oil Reserves Agency Act 2007 to provide for a reduction in the petroleum product levy, which is more commonly known as the NORA levy. The NORA levy is a charge of 2 cent per litre applied to most petroleum products sold in the market for the purpose of funding the operations of the National Oil Reserves Agency and the climate action fund. The levy will now be reduced to a nominal amount. The reduction will come into effect from 12 October to offset the carbon tax increase on petrol and diesel road fuels which will apply from that date. It will remain in place until the end of February 2023. It should be noted that NORA has a significant financial reserve and that this temporary levy reduction will not impact on its ability to carry out its functions in the event of the occurrence of an oil emergency.

Section 13 contains standard provisions concerning the Short Title and commencement of the Act.

I have outlined the main provisions of this emergency measures Bill.I have also provided detail on each section, which I hope will be of assistance to Senators. I look forward to an informed and meaningful debate and to working constructively with Senators on all sides of the House.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House and look forward to the swift passage of the Bill. It is important legislation that attempts, in so far as possible, to address the crisis many families and individuals will face over the coming months. We all are aware of the spiralling cost of gas, the impact it is having on the electricity market and how that permeates down to each individual household. To some extent, the potential crisis is masked at the moment by the reasonably good weather we have had. Therefore, many homes have not had to increase the heat in their homes, as they often would at this time of year.

This Bill is a pre-emptive strike by the Government and is particularly welcome. It builds on the previous scheme, recognising there were some gaps in the system. Having read the Minister of State's speech and some of the background notes, I see an effort is being made to address the situation of Traveller families who had difficulties accessing the previous scheme because of the way in which their meters were appointed and funded through local authorities, albeit that they ended up paying the charges anyway. We must address that. I understand also, as the Minister of State might confirm in his concluding remarks, that there is an effort to assist the small number of individuals who are in rental accommodation and operating off a bulk meter through a landlord. While I understand an effort is to be made to ensure they get the compensation, I hope it is not just a case of the €200 being spread among up to ten, 15 or 20 people. It should not just be an allocation of €200 per meter but an allocation based on the number of individuals using that meter. The quantum of money must be linked to the number of units rather than just to the meter. I ask the Minister of State to consider that.

There was a haste by some to comment on the approach of the Government in attempting to resolve the difficulties people are suffering. The notion of a blanket cap on the cost of energy from the different suppliers has been bandied around by some to give the impression the Government is not targeting energy producers. The reality is that such a measure has to be done at European level. I see from some within both the media and politics a sort of lazy approach in suggesting a cap can be put on what energy companies may charge. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Many people have been led to believe prices can somehow be capped and the energy companies will carry the can. The reality is very different. What would ultimately happen, as is happening in the UK, is the Government would have to plug the gap between the cost to the companies and the price at which they might be forced to sell. This would give no incentive whatsoever to the people who are making an effort to reduce their energy consumption and would have a negative effect in that regard.

Contrary to what some have put forward, those with a very large energy usage, including those who are particularly well off and use vast amounts of electricity, would benefit most. That is the reality. I was in the company of Michael O'Leary when he said he does not need the €600, which I am sure he does not. If we were to cap the price at which electricity is charged and the Government were to subvent the energy companies, it is people like Michael O'Leary - I do not mean to single him out in particular; I am referring generally to individuals who use large amounts of electricity - who would benefit the most. The Government's measure is a progressive approach to assisting those most in need and is to be welcomed.

I listened with interest around the time of the budget to the arguments from Government members that the measures now in place are very much to address what can be perceived as the potential increase in costs, but there is no certainty in this regard. There are fluctuations in the price of oil and gas on a daily basis. From the time one gets up in the morning until one goes to bed, prices increase significantly. The Government indicated, and I hope it follows through on it, that moneys will be kept in reserve to enable it to intervene again should the market require it. That is important. I heard some politicians on budget day being critical of the Government for not being able to give certainty around the cost of energy. We are in a war situation, with the prices fluctuating on the market on a daily basis. Of course no certainty can be given as to where international prices will be in the next few hours, let alone over the coming months. The most important aspect that needs to be highlighted is the commitment by the Government, in so far as it can give such a commitment on behalf of the taxpayer, to retain some moneys that can be provided early next year if that is necessary. The Minister of State might comment on this in his concluding remarks.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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The Minister of State is welcome. I am glad the Bill, which I welcome, is before the House. It allows for money to be put back into households around the country and it will be received gladly. This is a technical Bill to establish the new electricity credit scheme. The big question in the minds of many leading up to the Bill and when the scheme was announced in the budget is whether households that are on pay-as-you-go arrangements with their energy supplier will be included in the scheme and benefit from it. It was a relief to hear the Minister of State laying out last Tuesday that the scheme will include customers with pay-as-you-go meters and will help them, alongside bill-pay customers, with their electricity costs.

I understand the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, has been in communication with the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications on the difficulty in paying any additional credits to pay-as-you-go customers due to the inability of the metering system to provide the data to identify those people. Will the Minister of State advise the House as to whether that issue has been resolved and, if so, by what mechanism will pay-as-you-go energy consumers receive moneys under the scheme? We cannot have a situation whereby households utilising those meters have to go begging for their credits. It cannot be that the onus is on them to ask for credits when the meter is running out.

There were calls on Tuesday in the Lower House for the fees for switching from pay-as-you-go arrangements to bill pay to be eliminated for everybody. The Minister of State stated: "It is free for people to change from what are sometimes known as hardship meters to a bill-pay option." We must ensure this is the case for all energy providers. I urge all 350,000 householders who are currently using a pay-as-you-go meter to switch to bill pay for the next few months, providing it is free to do so, if it would serve to streamline the receipt of the energy credits provided under the scheme. That wold be worthwhile. These are the most vulnerable energy customers. They have already paid €100 to get the meter in and they pay a higher rate than bill-pay customers. The latter pay 43.27 cent per kilowatt, while the former pay 46.23 cent. Pay-as-you-go customers are being hit all the time and it is absolutely crucial to get the credits to them.

I welcome and support the Bill. However, it is not as if we did not see this issue coming down the line. I would like to hear the Government's plan for energy supply in the medium term. What are we to do before the Minister's army of wind turbines is standing tall? The curtailment of fossil fuel energy production in order to reach climate objectives prior to the establishment of a viable sustainable alternative is a policy of utter foolishness. As always, it is the people who pay the price. We must be realistic about the timeline for developing our green energy infrastructure. We cannot stand by and watch people suffering in the meantime. I would very much appreciate the Minister of State's thoughts on this.

On the comments that have been made regarding the war, our country is neutral and we have always been known as peacemakers. I urge those in power in the State, whether it be the Taoiseach or the Minister for Defence, to try to get people around the table to stop this war.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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Before calling the next speaker, I welcome our visitors from Skibbereen Community School to the Seanad. I congratulate them on their sustainability project and wish them the very best of luck in their work. They are joined by Deputies Michael Collins and Christopher O'Sullivan, who are also very welcome.

Niall Ó Donnghaile (Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. A Bill very similar to this one was debated in February. At the time, Sinn Féin tabled amendments removing the references to it being a once-off measure. We knew, as did every expert and the dogs in the street, that this crisis was not going away and certainly was not going to be fixed by a one-off payment. Here we are with more legislation being rushed through the Houses. Once again, the approach of the Opposition has been vindicated. Maybe this time the Minister of State will listen to the Opposition and adopt our amendments.

There are several problems with the design of the electricity rebate. People with holiday homes lying idle for most of the year will now get even more money to help keep the lights on. The most recent census identified 61,204 holiday homes in the State. It is outrageous these vacant holiday homes have still not been excluded from this scheme. On top of the previous €200, they will now get another €600. That is a total of almost €50 million of taxpayers' money to keep the lights on in the second homes of predominantly well-off individuals. There are a further 166,752 vacant homes receiving €600. That is a further €100 million going where it is not exactly needed. It is shameful the Government has not found a way to exclude these homes in the eight months since the scheme was first legislated for. The Government likes to claim this is an emergency and there is no time to tailor the measures. That might have flown the last time but it cannot be trotted out this time around.

The Government likes to say there is a certain fairness in treating each home the same by giving each electricity meter €600. That is not really true when homes are not evenly distributed through society. A millionaire with five homes is getting five times the help compared with an ordinary working-class family struggling to make ends meet in a rented apartment. How can the Government try to tell us that is fair or universal? We have a number of amendments seeking to exclude vacant homes and holiday homes. We have chosen a method put forward by the Central Statistics Office, CSO. The CSO’s analysis of metered electricity consumption found that electricity consumption can be used as an indirect indicator of vacant and holiday dwellings. Houses that use very little are likely to be empty. This measure would exclude 130,266 ESB meters from receiving the rebate. That would mean €69 million euro could be saved by the Exchequer. The Government has continually dismissed amendments aimed at targeting this measure to those who need it on the grounds that it would slow down the roll-out. Nothing in this amendment delays the proposed timeline. This could simply and quickly be applied by ESB Networks and suppliers.

There were issues with Travellers on halting sites being excluded from the original payment. We are led to believe that approximately 1,000 Traveller households in local authority accommodation were excluded from the original payment. Will the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications work with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to devise a way to reach these homes with future supports? It is simply not good enough, eight months after the original scheme, for the Government to say it is looking into it. What does that tell Traveller families about the priorities of this Government? Some of these households are living in extreme energy poverty already and need immediate assistance. "We are working on it" is not going to cut it. The Minister needs to give a commitment that these families will receive the full €600 this winter on top of the €200 they did not get originally.

Pay-as-you-go customers are another category of households that are let down by this Bill. There are 346,000 households using prepay meters in this State. They face higher tariffs, higher standing charges, and people on low incomes are offered no protection against cut-offs. The Minister, Deputy Ryan, had the brass neck to go on "Morning Ireland" today and laud these meters’ so-called efficiency. That efficiency comes from people self-disconnecting and not feeding the meter. The "efficiency" is them going without light and heat.

Sinn Féin has made its position clear. We believe an electricity price cap is needed this winter to give households certainty. We need to reduce electricity prices back to pre-crisis levels and cap them. Regarding what Senator Dooley said, price caps have been introduced right across Europe but this Government has chosen a different path of giving three energy credits this winter. Although we disagree with this approach, we will support the Bill because the €550 in electricity credits will still help offset some costs for people this winter. We will support this Bill but hold firm to the position that reducing electricity prices to pre-crisis levels and capping them at that cost this winter is a far better solution and would give households much greater certainty. Let us do that instead.

Marie Sherlock (Labour)
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As we all know, more than 900,000 households are facing into fuel poverty this winter. Fuel poverty has been a permanent feature of this country through good times and now through bad. The choices facing this State, particularly when the public finances are in such a remarkably healthy situation, raise very serious questions about the extent to which the State is willing to go the extra mile to help those households in fuel poverty. It is not even that they have a minor difficulty in paying their bills; this is actual poverty. We very much believe the State has been found wanting in that regard. People will of course welcome the three instalments of €183, but when that is set against the €2,000 increase in average energy bills over the past 18 months and the projection that that will further increase by €1,200, that support is really in the ha'penny place.

I have heard the Minister of State talk about the increase in the fuel allowance threshold. That is all very welcome but there are thousands of households in this country that should be entitled to the fuel allowance but are not because of their circumstances. Perhaps there is somebody else in the home, or they are marginally over the increased threshold, or they are not in receipt of the social welfare payment that would make them eligible.

While we will support this Bill, we believe serious changes need to be introduced to it. I refer in particular to situations where tenants are in rented accommodation where the landlord pays the utility bill. We need to ensure it is the tenants who benefit, that they do not lose out and can share in that payment from the State towards those who are paying the utility bill. The landlord is effectively just passing on that utility bill to the tenants, but if they are the person with the MPRN, then they will only pocket the payment. The second issue is that not all renters are covered by this Bill. Licences are the main form of tenant agreement in co-living spaces or for short-term leases. We need all renters to be included in this Bill.

The other key issue, which has been referred to, is the outrageous fact that some households may benefit on the double from this payment. This needs to be targeted at households that actually need the payment. Those with holiday homes or other homes that happen to have a live MPRN should not be benefiting. There has been insufficient effort on the part of the Government to try to control that.

While we need to get people through this winter, and I accept we will have to have once-off measures, my main interest is the permanent fix. The Government has acknowledged that €28 billion needs to be spent this decade to retrofit 500,000 homes to a B2 standard. Yet the Government is only stumping up €8 billion of that. The budget only provided for an additional 10,000 houses to be retrofitted next year on top of what was retrofitted this year. The ambition to get to that 500,000 target is far off track. The money being put into retrofitting is far from sufficient and the waiting times at the moment are simply disgraceful. It is taking 26 months to access retrofitting under the better energy, warmer homes scheme. We are talking today about the once-off measures to get people through the winter, but we also need to hear from the Minister of State about the permanent fix. We know from many of the energy experts, and we can see it ourselves in the energy sector, that prices are not going to retreat to where they were at the start of this year or last year. They are going to remain at elevated levels.That will have a significant impact on households, particularly considering the difference between heating a two- or three-bedroom apartment with a building energy rating of F or G and a similar unit with a rating of B2. The difference can be up to €3,500 per year. My figures are from before the energy crisis. They are obviously a lot worse now and may get worse again in the future. Therefore, we need to hear from the Government about the permanent fix.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. I support this Bill, as do all Members, despite the criticism, as far as I can understand. That is good because we need to move forward on this. I welcome the energy credits and accept everything is not perfect, but if one were to go down the road of separating customers with holiday homes from others, the credit would, according to the experts and others, be a long time coming to those who desperately need it.

Although everybody said the credit was not enough, nobody referred to the benefits of the fuel allowance. For example, it has now been announced that there will be a €400 top-up to the fuel allowance on 14 November, on top of the approximately €500 already being paid. The income threshold for the fuel allowance will increase by €80 from €120 to €200 in January 2023. For people aged over 70, the threshold will increase in January 2023 to €500 for a single person and €1,000 for a couple. The disablement benefit and half-rate carer's allowance will be disregarded in the means test for the fuel allowance in January 2023. It is only fair, if one gives one side of the argument, to give the other side too. A genuine effort is being made by the Government to acknowledge and support people who would be in difficulty without its support. There will be six, seven or maybe eight different payments to people in the coming weeks to help them. That is only right. It is only right that the Government use the taxpayers' money it has collected to help people with their heating bills throughout the winter.

I do not agree at all with the capping of the energy prices because we are in a no-man's-land. The UK is going to be in real trouble over this. It has cost it £120 billion already. What will happen come January or February if it experiences the same kind of crisis? It will be a disaster for it. We will be moving to collect the windfall tax, which I hope will be redistributed, if necessary, to the domestic and business customers who need an allowance because of rising energy prices.

I accept this is a most difficult situation for many people, but, in all fairness, one has to agree that the Government has moved on it. When I speak to members of the general public, they clearly say the Government is making an effort.

Let me refer to a vital point about spending all the money on the announcement of the budget. I believe Senator Dooley referred to it. There is €6 billion, and the Government has made it quite clear that if it is necessary in the new year to support people with electricity bills, it will be available. The Minister of State might confirm this. I am confident that the Government is on top of this and making the right moves to bring this country through a very difficult period. It is not just a crisis in this country.

Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I will be brief because I have several amendments that will give me an opportunity to discuss the specific issues.

As said by others, it is right to recognise that many households are facing an emergency regarding energy costs but I believe more could and should be done to ensure that while we address the energy crisis, we also address the associated crisis, namely the climate crisis, and the transition we need. We do not have the luxury of a single crisis but need to move forward in ways that act on both.

While supplementing bills may go some way towards assisting as an interim measure, the real problem concerns the bills, the extent of their escalation and the fact that we see profiteering. We need to use other measures. In this regard, some members of the Government have advocated a proper and substantial windfall tax on the major profits in this area. We argued at EU level in favour of proper separation of gas prices and electricity prices, which would allow for a different cap and threshold to be set in terms of electricity prices. If that measure were applied properly, it could be really useful in making renewable energy very affordable and making it the affordable option.

I will not be able to make financial amendments to the Bill, but I believe in actively supporting the transition from dependency on gas-fired central heating, on which Ireland is highly dependent, towards more use of electricity. One of the ways in which we could do that is not by supplementing bills, almost regardless of the form of energy being billed, but by having really targeted additional measures that help people to make the transition.

Standing charges comprise a major issue. It is a genuine problem if people are being told to manage their energy, switch and be efficient while at the same time having their standing charges increased. There does not seem to be a willingness to regulate. In this regard, I refer to our talk about capping the price or, at a minimum, capping the standing charges so they will not increase incrementally. We know the position on the regressive move in May regarding the low-cost standing charge. When representatives of the CRU appeared before the climate committee, they pointed out the position on those who benefited from the lower standing charge. There may be an issue with those with holiday homes and so forth but there are other ways to tackle that. There was also an issue with people with an A-rated house or those who produce their own solar power. They benefited from a lower standing charge, which was a great incentive, but it was removed and the standard rate was applied to them. Therefore, instead of incentivising the transition, we are penalising it. In this regard, we need many other measures not just to help people to pay the bills but also to tackle the runaway escalation and really help people to make the transition.

When considering electricity usage and all the very difficult decisions made on it and energy use, we need to revisit and strengthen the discussion we have been trying to have for two years on data centres and the fact that Ireland's electricity demand over the past five years has increased by 9%. By comparison, the average change in demand in other EU countries has been 0%. Meanwhile, I believe the data centres' demand has increased by over 200%. Therefore, we are really looking at large energy users escalating their use of electricity massively, thereby having a disproportionate impact on our electricity market. We should be considering targeted measures to discourage this form of electricity usage specifically.

We talked about demand reduction but all we have got from the regulators consistently was demand management. This is not demand reduction; it is about determining the time of day the demand might arise. This is not the same as seeking to reduce demand overall. These are related issues. I am raising them to highlight that we have a wider issue concerning electricity and energy usage that extends beyond the measures in this Bill. It is appropriate to raise them because, if we do not, will be applying Band-Aids time and again and not fixing the underlying problem.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I want to make a brief comment. It would be remiss of me not to do so. I very much welcome this Bill. I spoke to the Minister of State previously about how we are wasting so much wind energy produced in this country by not utilising it. It is important to do so. I put it to the Minister of State and the officials who are present from the Department that one way of utilising the energy is through EnergyCloud, which involves a ready-to-go mechanism and is a cost-neutral way to provide energy to the most vulnerable in the community.I now call the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Ossian Smyth, who has eight minutes.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I thank the Acting Chairperson and the Senators for their comments. I listened closely to what they had to say. It was a useful debate. Even though we all agree we want to go ahead with this legislation and realise the urgency there, useful contributions have been made by all Members about how we should proceed for the coming months and what is going to happen in the spring because this problem is not going to go away in the short term. There are longer-term problems as well, as Senator Keogan pointed out.

I will start by addressing that question about what is coming next in the spring. I confirm that the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Ryan, has committed to reviewing the situation in the spring. Many of the measures that were introduced in the budget are timed to run out at the end of February. The course of the war will determine some of this and we are committing, as a Government, to review that.

There are also questions about the pay-as-you-go customers. I confirm that transfers from pay-as-you-go hardship meters to bill pay are free for all utility suppliers. I encourage anybody in that situation - anybody who is a vulnerable customer, whether medically or financially vulnerable - to transfer to bill pay as soon as possible. It is a more appropriate measure. Not everybody on a pay-as-you-go meter is there because of energy poverty. I have a pay-as-you-go meter because I prefer to track my energy use in that way. Senator Keogan asked whether the transfers to pay-as-you-go meters will be made. I confirm the payment of €200 arrived in my account earlier this year and I expect the same mechanism and transfer will happen again this year.

Senator Keogan referred tangentially to the energy security review and asked what is going to happen to protect our country from energy shocks and to promote our energy sovereignty. In that regard, the energy security review has completed and has produced its list of recommendations. They are out for public consultation this month and I suggest that anybody who is interested should comment on the options that are there. We are looking at them all with an open mind. Senator Keogan also called for peace and requested that we all sit down for talks, with which I absolutely agree.

A number of Senators referred to the price cap policy that is being pursued in the UK, for example. The decision on this was that we would transfer money directly to citizens' electricity accounts. We will give it directly to the people using electricity in their domestic accounts. We will treat businesses in a different way. We will bring is a scheme, similar to the pandemic support scheme, which will look at businesses previous energy use and at the increase in their costs and will then compensate them for that change to try to ensure those businesses stay viable and do not shut down.

To return to domestic and to the citizen perspective, if a person has an electricity bill, they will find a credit on that bill directly to help them. The alternative was to bring in a cap which really consists of a subsidy to energy companies, whereby we guarantee the price will never go above a certain level, regardless what the international price of gas is, which of course means we are entering into an unconstrained financial guarantee and that is something we did a decade ago and is not something we are rushing to do again. We have the benefit of the experience of seeing how price caps are working in other jurisdictions and I would say that it is not going well. We are not really inclined to move towards price caps.

I turn to the comments of Senator Sherlock. The Senator asked about the quantum and if this was a large enough approach. There is €2.5 billion in cost-of-living measures in this budget and that adds to the €2.5 billion from the last budget. That is the measure and, as I said, it is to be reviewed again in the spring. It is an exceptionally large amount of money but it is an exceptional crisis and it is for a period of time. Senator Sherlock pointed out that people get missed by targeted payments. We have a range of targeting payments - there at least eight I can think of that are to help with the energy crisis - and some people get missed by those. Someone might not qualify for a particular payment or a long-term payment. If you are a single parent and you have a job, you do not get the welfare payments. That is the reason we have universal payments. That is the reason this Bill will provide for one of the universal payments as it pays money to everybody. As Senator Dooley pointed out, it is unlike a price cap which pays you more money the more you use - in other words, it is the opposite of a targeting payment and it directs and targets money towards those who use more electricity. If you are heating your swimming pool, if you are washing all your cars at the weekend, if you are using giant qualities of electricity, you get more money if the price is capped. Unlike that, we-----

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
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The taxpayer pays for it.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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That is why we have targeted and welfare payments but some people get missed, so we need some universal payments as well. We have the experience of that with child benefit. We have three universal payments, or three universal subsidies that are going through. The first is the direct payment of €600 is provided for in this Bill. The next one is the change in the PSO levy. The PSO levy used to be a tax on people's bills of €51 but this time it will be a credit of €89. That is equivalent to €140 per customer, which will directly help people. There is also the reduction in VAT from 13.5% to 9%. There is the €400 lump sum payment for fuel allowance recipients; the €200 lump sum payment for pensioners and people with a disability getting the living alone allowance; a €500 cost-of-living lump sum payment to all families getting working family payment; a double payment of child benefit to support all families with children; a €500 cost-of-living payment for people receiving carers support grant, which will be paid in November; a €500 lump sum cost-of-living disability support grant, which will be paid to all those receiving a long-term disability grant; a double welfare payment for those on long-term payments at Christmas; and a double payment in the autumn before that. Those are the targeted payments to reach people and they are going to have a significant effect but they will be kept under review.

Other than just paying people money, which obviously is not a long-term strategy, what are we doing to make sure we can reduce our energy use as a country while at the same time being able to heat our homes and provide ourselves with electricity in the future, so that we are not dependent on Russia or the Middle East to run our country? We need that independence and sovereignty. More than ever, people are coming to me to say they want wind farms built out faster, and not because of climate action but because they feel our country's independence is compromised by our dependence on Russia and the Middle East and we need to do this as fast as we can. That is the reason we are going to build out 7 GW of wind power and hydrogen, 5.5 GW of solar and 5.7 TW hours of anaerobic digestion. These are absolutely critical and they are needed more than ever. There is huge support for that from private enterprise which wants to invest in those areas and the general public supports that.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
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Now.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.