Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach's office for choosing this Commencement debate. I welcome the Minister of State to the Chamber. As the Minister of State is aware, the education and training boards, ETBs, came into being in 2013 and will celebrate ten years in existence on 1 July 2023. They follow on from the vocational educational committees, VECs. In total they have about 32,000 staff throughout the country, with a spend in excess of €2 billion. I take this opportunity to congratulate a colleague in County Galway, Councillor Michael "Moegie" Maher, on becoming president of the Education and Training Boards Ireland, ETBI, recently. He will be in that position for the next two years. The ETBs are a major provider of educational services at second and third level. In County Galway there is a huge array of colleges, including Galway Technical Institute, Galway Community College, Clarin College, Coláiste an Chreagáin and post-primary schools including Coláiste an Eachréidh, Coláiste Bhaile Chláir, Coláiste Cholmcille, Coláiste na bPiarsach, Coláiste na Coiribe, Coláiste Naomh Éinne, Coláiste Naomh Eoin, Coláiste Naomh Feichín and Merlin College in Galway city as well, and recently, a couple of community national schools. Galway-Roscommon ETB has a footprint across the city and counties of Galway and Roscommon.

Déanann Bord Oideachais agus Oiliúna na Gaillimhe agus Ros Comáin sárobair ar son an oideachais in iar-bhunscoileanna, i gcoláistí breisoideachais agus, le níos déanaí, i scoileanna náisiúnta pobail trasna an dá chontae. Tá sé ag lorg solúbthachta agus neamhspleáchais maidir le cúrsaí earcaíochta laistigh den fhoireann a bhí aige roimh an moratóir.

Flexibility and independence are things that ETBs had in the past and they wish to have again in the future for more efficient management of their affairs. A report commissioned by then Minister for Education, Michael Woods, in October 2000 by Sean Cromien suggested VECs at the time would benefit from greater independence and autonomy in that this would reduce the need for recourse to the Department on issues which would normally expect to be within the remit of the chief executive and there was considerable scope for delegation in the vocational education sector. On the requirement for the Minister for Education to approve individual teacher appointments in VECs, he said this appeared to be unnecessary.

This is a problem. For example, for small issues, if a staff member has to go out on maternity leave, the board has to get permission from the parent Department to sanction and allow that. If a staff member needs or wishes to go on a career break, equally, the board does not have that delegated authority within the ETB. It has to get permission from the Department of Education. If there is a critical illness, there is no independence or autonomy within the ETB. It has to go back to the parent department. This seems unnecessary. It is about managing the resources that are sanctioned within the ETB. There is a headline figure or a whole-time equivalent, within, for example, Galway-Roscommon ETB. It is not about seeking independence to go over that; that is a different matter. It is about managing the resources within the allocation of staffing. It is about the chief executive being able to know he or she can replace someone who goes on maternity leave or a career break or that there is a pathway to progression for somebody, that the chief executive knows that if a grade 7 staff member leaves, that person will be replaced.That is what we are asking for.

Mark Wall (Labour)
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I thank Senator Kyne. I invite the Minister of State to respond.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I thank the Chair and Senator Kyne. The Minister for Education has asked me to answer this question about staffing arrangements for ETBs on her behalf. As Senator Kyne may be aware, the arrangements for the allocation of teaching posts and the allocation of special needs assistants in all schools, including ETB schools, are set down in various circulars issued by the Department of Education. As regards such posts, schools and ETBs have autonomy in the recruitment and replacement of staff within the agreed and approved staffing allocation granted to the school in question and subject to relevant procedures and criteria set out in circulars from the Department. The Department also provides each ETB with an administrative and maintenance staffing allocation and an associated pay budget to support its individual ETB schools and head office. It is the responsibility of each ETB to recruit and manage staffing levels within this allocation, including the assignment of such staff to the different functional areas of the ETB in accordance with the needs and priorities of the organisation. In line with the general position across the public sector, every ETB must operate within overall approved staffing and pay budgets for its administrative and maintenance staff. ETBs have discretion to temporarily employ a substitute for existing ancillary staff in schools who are temporarily absent due to sick leave and so on, where the temporary absence would otherwise result in either no secretary, no caretaker or no cleaner being in the school on the days in question, and where the ETB can fund the temporary employment of the substitute from its existing pay budget for non-teaching staff.

However, ETBs are required to seek prior approval from the Department for new posts or to replace existing sanctioned administrative and maintenance posts on a temporary or permanent basis. In considering such requests, the Department will consider factors such as the particular circumstances and needs arising for the ETB concerned, and will also have regard to the affordability of the post, or replacement post where applicable, within the administrative and maintenance pay budget of the ETB itself, and within the relevant pay budget for the ETB sector as a whole. I can confirm that over recent years the Department has, as resources permitted, granted a significant number of additional administrative and maintenance posts to the ETB sector. In the period since 2015, the Department has increased the number of approved posts in head offices by 29% across all sectors. I can also confirm that the vast majority of replacement head office administrative posts sought by ETBs are granted by the Department. For example, since 2017, 85% of such requests have been granted. The Department remains fully committed to supporting ETBs and will continue to work closely with individual ETBs and with the sector collectively to ensure they are adequately resourced to deliver their very important work.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for the response from the Department. The Department states in the response that in the period since 2015, it has increased the number of approved posts in head offices by 29% across the sector. Of course that is because of the lifting of the moratorium so they are getting back to where they were. The point is that the ETBs had this autonomy and independence in the past. It was taken away from them during the financial crisis and the moratorium, and they wish to see it relaxed and to get it back. Why is it necessary for an ETB to have to go to the Department for permission to replace somebody going on maternity leave or on a career break or somebody who is out with a serious illness? That is the question that has not been answered in the Department's reply. Could I ask the Minister of State to go back to the Minister for Education to get those questions answered in relation to restoring the autonomy that the ETBs once had?

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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My understanding is that the ETBs, and I was a board member of the Dublin and Dún Laoghaire ETB in the past, have autonomy and independence in hiring staff and choosing how they spend their staff budget and so on. The problem arises when they are hiring a replacement staff member whose pay is additional to the budget that has already been allocated. As the Senator is shaking his head, I may have that wrong.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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That is not what we are being told.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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When somebody is on long-term sick leave, for example, and an additional person needs to be hired, there is an increase in the budget costs and the ETB is required to go back to the Department to seek sanction. The Department's view on this is that it is approving 85% of applications in that situation. I suppose the intention is for the ETBs to live within their budgets, not to exceed the amounts of money allocated in the budget at the start of the year, and to stay within the fiscal prudence envelope. I can pass on Senator Kyne's concerns to the Minister and he can ask me outside this forum if he has any clarifications he wishes to put to me.