Mark Wall (Labour)
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The Minister is very welcome to the House this afternoon. This is one of the biggest issues, if not the biggest issue apart from housing, that I have received representations on in my office over the past couple of weeks. I am sure colleagues are in the same boat. The issue is parents are seeing their children left at the side of the road; that is the bottom line. Whether we like it or not, that is what is happening throughout south Kildare and its bordering counties of Laois and Offaly. I will relay two quick quotations from parents because they reflect what is happening. The first states: "I have been refused bus tickets that we have had over the last number of years, we now are left with no option but to pay €60 per week for taxis , other than that I will have to give up work". The second parent states:

I have been on to the bus provider last week and yesterday again. The bus goes by our gate everyday with 5 - 6 empty seats in the morning. [There are more in the afternoon because some parents go and drive to school to collect their children]. The bus holds 33 kids but the bus operator has not received any numbers or names from bus eireann, so cannot tell me if the bus is actually full or not [because he has not received that information].

This is what is going on. Nobody knows how many spaces are available. Nobody knows what is going on. Why can we not allow people aged over 70 to drive buses? We need solutions.

Aisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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The school transport system is vital for tens of thousands of families across the country. This is especially so in rural areas and I am sure in the Minister's own constituency as well, where there is just no other choice. He will be very aware of that. In areas of east Galway and Roscommon around Ahascragh, Kilconnell, Ballyforan and Dysart, we do not have a myriad of transport options. There is no Luas or train line running through these towns. I have been at public meetings in Ballygar and Mountbellew and parents are in despair; it is a lifeline.

Making it free was a wonderful initiative. It has brought in 44,000 students and families who are benefiting and has reduced the cost of transport for families.My understanding is that with 122,000 tickets issued out of 130,000 applications, there is a shortfall of 8,000 travel tickets. Based on an average journey of ten km - two return journeys a day means a 40 km daily total - I estimate that if we issued those 8,000 tickets, we could take 320,000 km per day of family journeys off country roads. I ask the Minister to imagine the amount of emissions reduction and the savings on fuels this would mean for these families. I put it to her that we need action now for these families.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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It is unprecedented that five Senators are speaking about the same Commencement matter. I have never seen it before in my time in the Oireachtas. Realistically, I have 172 or 173 kids on to me from west Cork at the moment. The majority of them had school tickets last year but because of the change in the scheme, they have been effectively thrown off the bus. These are working families who are trying to live their daily lives and their routine has been taken away from them. To compound that, I have spoken to a parent whose child is availing of the school bus scheme this year for the first time. She is caught for the Wednesday afternoon collection, so the child uses the bus service once a week. This means that on the other nine journeys, the seats are empty. The system is broken. We need to put a budget in place to make sure we can cater for all kids and not leave thousands of children at the crossroads without school transportation. We need a new system in place because it is chaos at the moment.

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister, Deputy Foley. Like other speakers, I look forward to the day when all schoolchildren will be collected and we will not be having questions about concessionary tickets. I welcome the initiative that the Minister introduced here as a first step along that journey. Unfortunately, the unprecedented take-up on this scheme has resulted in children who have school transport tickets every year not getting tickets. I know one particular family whose child is now doing the leaving certificate and has had a ticket for her six years in secondary school, and this is the first year that they have not been able to get a ticket for her. Many parents are working and are under stress to keep things going. The last thing they need at the moment is to have to deal with this problem. It is estimated that 1,800 children in counties Monaghan, Cavan and Louth do not have a school bus ticket at present. I know the Minister is working hard on this issue. I look forward to being told what the plans are to address it.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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Everything we are talking about today is an unintended consequence of what was a good policy. The unintended consequence is that children who received concessionary tickets for the last number of years, and eligible tickets in some cases, now do not have a seat on the bus. I know of between 50 and 60 children in County Louth from villages such as Ravensdale, Castlebellingham, Annagassan, Collon and Ardee who are all trying to get into Dundalk, Drogheda and Dunleer, but do not have tickets for those buses. The buses are leaving each day half full because the people who have received tickets do not need them or are not using them. As the last speaker here, I ask the Minister on behalf of the parents of those students in County Louth to set out what the plan is to fix this.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy Foley, for taking time out of her busy schedule to come before the Seanad.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Senators for raising these matters. Before I address the specific issues raised, I will provide an outline of the significant extent of the school transport scheme which provides transport on a daily basis for tens of thousands of children across the country to mainstream and special education settings. The purpose of the school transport scheme is, having regard to available resources, to support the transport to and from school of children who reside remote from their nearest school. In July 2022, the Government announced funding for the waiving of school transport scheme fees for the 2020-23 school year as part of an extraordinary package of cost-of-living measures. This measure has saved families up to €650 per year.

School transport ticket registration for the 2022-23 year closed on 29 July, by which time almost 130,000 applications or registrations were received for mainstream school transport. This figure includes 44,299 new applications, as well as rollovers from the previous school year. This indicates the very strong level of demand for tickets. Some 124,000 tickets for the mainstream scheme alone have already been issued to applicants. At the start of the last school year, approximately 103,000 children were carried on mainstream school transport services. Therefore, approximately 21,000 additional places have already been created free of charge. There has been an increase in tickets allocated across all counties. We are continuing to process applications and to issue tickets as soon as extra buses and drivers are sourced and become available to provide transport to the higher numbers qualifying for the service.However, regrettably the unprecedented numbers of new applications for the upcoming school year have led to some delays in issuing tickets.

The normal eligibility criteria of the scheme still apply and tickets continue to be allocated in line with these criteria. Pupils at primary level are eligible where they live no less than 3.2 km from their nearest primary school. At post-primary level, students who live no less than 4.8 km from and are attending their nearest or next-nearest post-primary school are eligible. Any pupils who do not meet these criteria are deemed not eligible, or otherwise known as concessionary applicants, and are allocated a ticket, as has been previously the case, based on the availability of a seat when all eligible children have been catered for.

In line with normal practice, all eligible children who completed the application and ticket registration process on time for the 2022-23 school year will be accommodated on school transport services where such services are in operation.

In addition, pending completion of the outcome of the full review of the school transport scheme, temporary alleviation measures at post-primary level continue for the 2022-23 school year. As I previously outlined, these measures will provide transport for students who are attending their next-nearest post-primary school.

With regard to the review of the school transport scheme, the Department commenced a review in February 2021. The review is being conducted with a view to examining the current scheme and how it currently operates, its broader effectiveness and sustainability and that it adequately supports the provision of services to students and their families.

The review encompasses the school transport scheme for children with special educational needs also. The review of the primary and post-primary school transport schemes will examine each element of the schemes and includes eligibility criteria, trends, costs, cost drivers and overall effectiveness in meeting the objectives of the schemes. The review will also examine the potential for integration of different strands of the scheme and a more co-ordinated approach with other Departments that also use transport services.

Wider considerations relating to operation of the scheme are taking place in the current phase of the review. As part of the current phase of the review, the technical working group has undertaken extensive consultation, including running a public survey for parents, guardians and students who use the service and those who do not use the service but who would like to. These engagements have yielded extensive data for consideration. The group has also consulted a broad array of stakeholders, including schools, special education interest groups, industry representatives and other Departments.

While work on the review was impacted somewhat by the challenges of the pandemic and the impact of the current conflict in Ukraine, it is anticipated that the final phases of the review will be completed shortly, with recommendations on the future operation of the Department's school transport scheme. The steering group will continue to report to me on an interim basis as regards the progress of the review.

John McGahon (Fine Gael)
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All previous eligibility criteria in normal years should go out the window because the floodgates have been opened. By allowing every child in the country to avail of free school transport, the Minister can no longer maintain the same eligibility criteria. We told every child in the country we will provide free school transport without even bothering to prepare by providing for extra buses.

The demand is not unprecedented. When the Cabinet decided in June or July to provide free school transport, the Government should have said we had better get more bus drivers and buses before proceeding to give free school transport. That is clear and obvious. We cannot apply the same rules and eligibility criteria. We cannot give free school transport to everyone in the country and then say we are sorry but we do not have enough buses. What is the plan?

Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her response.

I respectfully ask the Department officials to expedite the review as much as possible. It is important that it is comprehensive. I look forward to the outcome but there is a sense of urgency with it because we need to get our house in order for next year.

Some operators tell me there are issues with regard to solutions. There is a particular issue with the buses and another issue getting people to drive them. I could be working for a private operator taking schoolchildren to a football match and back to school again.If I were to work for Bus Éireann, however, I would not be able to drive those same children home to their mums and dads in the evening or to collect them in the morning. That does not make sense.

I have spoken to operators who say of the tendering system that the quality of the buses in use needs to be taken into consideration and that it should not be the cheapest tender in this instance that wins the award because there are issues with payments for drivers. That needs to be reflected in the tenders if we are to have a bus service going forward.

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I might be wrong, but I think the review was started in February 2021. This issue is not about the review of how the transportation system will work for schools. The issue is that there was a change and we had a mass of people come on board looking for the scheme. Because of that, people who were always on the bus have been thrown off the bus. That is my problem. I am aware of hundreds of kids in west Cork who have been eligible to ride the bus for four or five years and are now thrown off it because the criteria have changed. As a result, we need an urgent budget put in place to accommodate the people who have been left behind. We have left thousands behind, hundreds of them in west Cork. The distances involved are quite amazing. I am talking about places like Belgooly and Riverstick all the way to Rossmore. I had a meeting in Rossmore a few weeks ago at which we heard that 28 children were on the bus last year but are off it this year. That is because of the change that was made.

This is therefore not about the review. It is about the next ten days and about what we can do to make sure we have a budget to accommodate the children we left behind.

Aisling Dolan (Fine Gael)
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I know that the Minister is very much aware that there is pure frustration among families and parents about this issue. There is no space or capacity on the buses. Suddenly, everyone has learnt about the criteria in respect of full eligible tickets and concessionary tickets. There have been last minute notice emails. There is the communications side of things and the family portal. Children have been left on the side of the road. I heard from a mother working at Portiuncula Hospital who had to leave the hospital to come out and pick up a child left at the side of the road. Is this the fault of bus drivers? No. Is it the fault of inspectors? No. We need to be smarter about how we use the resources at hand. This is an issue because it is affecting rural Ireland more than city centres, where there are so many other choices. We do not have taxis to bring people from A to B. That does not exist. Yes, maybe if one is in the town centre, one can get a taxi, but one cannot do so out in rural areas. I know that this is a huge issue for the Minister as well. Let us be smarter about using our resources. Let us use the budget allocation for private contractors. Let us take into account their extra fuel costs. Let us take the individual travel off the road and reduce emissions. Let us make things safer and let us help rural Ireland.

Mark Wall (Labour)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. We cannot wait for reviews. Colleagues have said that. As for the example I gave the Minister of the incident involving the child, she is a special needs child. I did not say that in my initial contribution. She is losing school days because she cannot get to school, but the school bus is going past her door with five to six empty seats on it. We need to contact those operators and ask them how many people are on their buses and how many spare spaces they have. We need to ensure that those over 70 years of age can drive our buses.

Local Link has a huge part to play in this as well. In my area a great Local Link service was announced and we asked if it could go at 4.15 p.m. to accommodate schools. The answer was "No" because it has to go at 4 p.m. Now those who could accommodate themselves on Local Link cannot do so. It is a matter of joined-up thinking but it has to happen now. Children are on the side of the road. Parents are handing in their notice. This is an urgent issue, and everyone in this House knows it. The Government needs to act.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to be clear, and it is important to note, that when the announcement was made, it was made in respect of those who avail of the school transport system and are eligible for it. There was no change of criteria in that respect. It was made very clear that the announcement was for those who were eligible for the school transport scheme.

It is significant to note the numbers. This time last year we had 103,000 tickets issued and students availing of the system. At this point we have 124,000 availing of the school transport system, and availing of it free of charge, so it has been a considerable cost-of-living measure for many families, for many of them amounting to €650.

I referred to the review because it was specifically referred to in the questions put to me as part of the Commencement matter. The review is ongoing and is charged with looking at eligibility, so there may well be an opportunity going forward to change eligibility, but there was nothing about changed eligibility in the announcement.I do not for one minute underestimate any of the difficulties for the families in accessing the school transport system. It is for that reason that I initiated the review in the first instance.

Where there are specific challenges, we continue to work through them. It is fair to say that there have been challenges in terms of additional buses and drivers, but excellent work is going on there and those who are eligible are being catered for. Where there is scope to do otherwise, as we have seen previously where there is additional capacity as a consequence of those eligible being catered for, which will continue going forward, then there will be provision made going forward.

I continue to look at every possible avenue that we have. I continue to look at resources, including in discussions with the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, with regard to it going forward. It is a significant achievement that 124,000 children are availing of free transport at this point.

I specifically wish to reference a question that was raised in terms of special education. There should be no issue there. I would appreciate if the Senator would share the details of that case with me because there should not be an issue when it comes to special education.