Fiona O'Loughlin (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, to the Chamber.

Marie Sherlock (Labour)
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I warmly welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to the House and thank her for taking the time to be here today. I had hoped the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth would have been here but I understand there are other commitments. I acknowledge efforts he made in response to matters we raised with him last year. I want to be fair to him about those efforts with the national childcare scheme and in particular the eligibility for after-school hours.

Today's question relates to the alarming loss of early childhood care and education, ECCE, places this September. In one area in Stoneybatter, an urban village in Dublin 7, there will be a loss of 55 ECCE places this September. This is across two services, the Donard/Glen community play group and Creative Kids & Co. It is an enormous loss to any community, particularly when we know there is massive demand for ECCE places right across the country and in Dublin at this point.

Both closures relate to changes happening within the primary schools in which they are located, and these are good changes. That is to be welcomed. It is important to say we accept that those who run preschools located in primary schools know there is uncertainty hanging over them every year.The licence is renewed every September on a ten-month basis. Nonetheless there are very serious questions now about forward planning and co-ordination between the Department of Education and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth when changes are made with regard to school buildings.

To be frank, the Department of Education has made decisions on ASD units without really looking at what is happening within those school buildings. We have to ask if the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is going to stand by and see the loss of 55 ECCE places within one very small area of Dublin. I have no doubt that is replicated right across the country. Creative Kids & Co. was informed at the start of the year that it would potentially not have its licence renewed. It started the search process then. The person who runs that service runs two others so she knows what she is doing. She cannot find anywhere for love nor money in terms of trying to locate her ECCE service in another part of Dublin 7. Cost does not even come into it. It is about finding an appropriate place. Because we rightfully have these services so highly regulated, it makes it all the harder to find an appropriate location. There is an onus and responsibility on the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to ensure that appropriate locations are made available.

The Donard community play group was told that its licence would end in December 2022 and it would be extended on a monthly rolling basis. Because of changes by the Department of Education the group was told only last week that it will have nowhere as of this September. The heartbreaking thing about this is that there are a number of kids in both services who have additional needs. The irony for these children, who were due to go into their second year of ECCE, is that when they get to primary school in September 2023 they will have fantastic services in place but they will have nothing in the 12 months between September 2022 and September 2023. Weeks and months matter in children's lives, particularly those children who have additional needs. There are serious questions here for the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth about what it is going to do to put in place secure, sustainable locations for ECCE schemes that effectively have to close overnight.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I want to begin by apologising on behalf of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, who would have liked to have been here but he is delayed. I am going to read his script but I have taken a note of what the Senator mentioned in respect of Donard community play group and Creative Kids & Co.

I thank Senator Sherlock for raising this issue and for offering the opportunity to respond. I regret to hear that early learning and childcare services are being displaced from school premises although I can appreciate the position of the schools in needing to prioritise the establishment of early intervention classes. The Department of Education guidelines on the use of school buildings outside of school hours guides schools in the use of school facilities for other services, including early learning and childcare services. The guidelines are clear that the issue is a matter for the property owners, taking into consideration the needs of the school staff and students. The guidelines also require that any licence should include a term that the use of the facility or portion of the site covered by the licence must cease should it be required for school provision.

Government is aware of the challenges that can face an early learning and childcare service if it unexpectedly loses its premises. The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has an effective process in place to support providers in such circumstances. The Department provides the majority of funding to the early learning and childcare sector, primarily to the ECCE programme and the national childcare scheme and, from September, through a core funding scheme. However, it does not directly operate or manage early learning or childcare services.

These services are provided as for-profit or non-profit services and are either privately owned or operated by community organisations. While decisions about the day-to-day running of such services, including choice of location, any contracts or leases for premises and any decision to close is ultimately a matter for the provider, the Department can provide support in a number of ways to services that face losing their premises.Support to find alternative accommodation is available to all services, both private and community, from the local city and county childcare committee, CCC. The CCCs have engaged with services that were losing their premises and have provided assistance to identify alternative premises. The local CCC should be the first point of contact for any service seeking support.

Parents whose children are attending a service that may be due to close can contact their CCC for assistance in locating an alternative early learning and childcare place for their child. A recent survey of early learning and childcare services showed significant unused capacity for early childhood care and education, ECCE, places. CCCs can share this information with parents.

The Department oversees a case management process through its city and childcare committees and Pobal, which work together to provide support to early learning and childcare services experiencing difficulties. Case management assistance can include specialist advice and support appropriate to individual circumstances. Financial support may also be accessed through the case management process following a financial assessment. This support is currently available to community services to assist with operational costs associated with a sudden need to move premises.

From autumn, a new strand of the sustainability fund connected with core funding will operate. It will be open to both private and community providers that are in contract for core funding. As with previous strands of the sustainability fund, it will focus on operational and financial supports to assist services manage their immediate difficulties and transition to sustainability. Any early learning and childcare services that are at risk of losing their premises in a school or elsewhere are encouraged to contact the local city or county childcare committee as soon as possible.

I know what I have just said is of little comfort to the Senator because, at the end of the day, there are 55 spaces in a particular area that will not be available on 1 September unless the service finds a premises. It is incumbent on the city and county childcare committee to assist both providers to find alternative accommodation.

Marie Sherlock (Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for reading that reply. The statement of the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth that it has an effective process in place to support providers is simply not true. To say that the buck should be passed to the city and county childcare committees is simply unacceptable. The question here is not about the day-to-day costs; it is about undertaking a lease in a new facility. The providers to which I refer, one of which is a community provider, do not have a hope of finding an alternative location. I would say to the Department there is a real issue here because we are depending on people setting up a preschool out of the goodness of their hearts, either as a community facility or a for-profit facility. If there is an issue with the lease, that service disappears overnight. That is not good enough in 21st century Ireland. I know the Minister of State will relay that message back to the Department. The detail we have here is not good enough in terms of ensuring we have secure and sustainable locations for preschool education.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the pressing need for schools to ensure there is sufficient accommodation for children with additional needs. I also appreciate the importance of early intervention. Indeed, substantial and significant developments have been made in the early learning and childcare sector to ensure children with additional needs have full access to the ECCE programme through the access and inclusion model, AIM. The Senator has unearthed a serious issue that requires the Department of Education and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to sit down in conjunction with the city and county childcare committees to identify alternative locations to support both providers, be they private or community. Those families need that support and the reassurance the service will be available in their area in September.