Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Deputy James Browne, back after his address to the United Nations. He is most welcome.

Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I raise the issue of the strike taking place today by the Medical Laboratory Scientists Association, MLSA. It is their second week of industrial action. These workers are essential to the health service. Unfortunately, last week, as a result of just one day of strike action, 14,000 outpatient appointments were cancelled. Now these workers have had to embark on a second week of industrial action.

To be frank, I am at a complete loss as to how the Government has let this situation arise. The Minister of State knows full well that this dispute goes back 20 years. The HSE concedes that the dispute is just and that the expert report of 2001 made it clear there should be pay parity for these workers. There is a 20% drop-off rate in this area and 20% of positions for these specialist essential workers are unfilled. They cannot fill the vacancies.

A ballot for strike action was carried out last November, with 98% support. It is unbelievable that, knowing all of this, nothing worthwhile has been done by the Government. Instead of dealing with this dispute and the real issues involved, that is, justice for pay, career progression and the worrying shortfall in these expert workers because so many of them are leaving the industry or simply will not join it, the Government has done nothing. The Minister for Health has seen this coming down the tracks for months and instead of doing something about it, we are now into a second week of industrial disputes, with a further three days next week pending.

I have met these workers and their representatives and it is very clear that they did not want to go on strike. They made that absolutely clear to me. This is the last thing they wanted to do. They spent two and a half years in fruitless negotiations with this Government. Unfortunately, it is characteristic of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael governments that they do not understand industrial relations. How can it make sense to allow this dispute to continue, rather than resolve it? Terry Casey, the general secretary of the MLSA said, "Since last week’s action neither the HSE nor the Department of Health have come to us with a meaningful proposal, or invitation to talks, that could address the issues involved".That is an absolutely shocking statement. The Minister of State can see the chaos that has ensued. I had a number of calls this morning from people in Limerick asking me why their outpatient appointments have been cancelled. Let me be clear: they are not criticising the workers on strike - the outpatients get it. They are criticising the Government for allowing this to happen, for not dealing with the issues, for not listening to the workers and for not having the conversation that, clearly, still has not happened between the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I want to be very clear about where the blockage is. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is blocking moves to ensure pay parity for these workers. It is very clear that these disputes will cost us, through the HSE, an absolute fortune. It makes no financial sense and, in terms of justice for the workers, it makes no sense either. The Government has been derelict in its duty - those are the only words I can use - in allowing this dispute to drag on for more than 20 years. The workers have been waiting for pay parity and nothing has happened for them. There have been two and a half years of completely fruitless talks. The Minister of State has an opportunity to say something meaningful in his response. If he does that, the dispute could be called off tomorrow and we could get the workers back to work, which is where they want to be.

My colleagues were at the picket line in Limerick this morning and they spoke at first hand to the workers there. They are exasperated with the Government for not listening and not responding. The Minister of State has an opportunity now to please say something worthwhile and give us a clear indication that meaningful talks that will lead to a resolution of the dispute are available and should happen straight away.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge and pay tribute to the dedication, professionalism, and commitment of all medical scientists throughout the country. Medical scientists perform a valued and vital role within our health service. Their drive and determination have been key components in our management of the Covid-19 pandemic. During the pandemic, they were at the front line of the response providing a crucial role in testing. This role has not gone unnoticed.

The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, is acutely aware of the ongoing and long-standing claim for pay parity between medical scientists and clinical biochemists. Health management has been engaging with the Medical Laboratory Scientist Association, MLSA, on these issues at the Workplace Relations Commission, under the terms of the current public service agreement, Building Momentum. As the MLSA is part of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, it is bound by the terms of the agreement for the remainder of its lifetime. Building Momentum includes the process of sectoral bargaining to deal with all outstanding claims across the public sector. The bargaining fund equates to 1% of basic pensionable pay for each bargaining unit set up under the agreement. Under Building Momentum, sectoral bargaining is the sole mechanism through which the MLSA can advance its claim. The MLSA requested and was facilitated with its own bargaining unit in the sectoral bargaining process in order to progress its claim for pay parity. As such, the MLSA has at its disposal a fund equivalent to 1% of basic pay of all medical scientists.

While this fund is insufficient to fully resolve its long-standing claims, it can partially resolve the claim and the remainder could be addressed in a future public service agreement, as per the terms of Building Momentum. As previously stated, the MLSA and health management, in consultation with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, have been engaged in talks in recent months with the aim of finding a way to advance the claim through the sectoral bargaining process. Several options for moving medical scientists to the biochemist scale, within the fund available, were explored during these talks. These included options that would partially resolve the claim within this agreement but, to date, none has been accepted. Any options that were put on the table were taken seriously and respectfully by both sides, and were discussed, costed, and verified by the HSE, the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in good faith.

The Public Service Agreement Group, PSAG, comprising union and Civil Service representatives, with an independent chair, met on 11 May to consider the MLSA's claim and proposed strike action. It recommended that the matter be immediately referred to the WRC and that industrial peace be maintained in the meantime. Health management met with the MLSA under the auspices of the WRC on 17 May, but, unfortunately, no resolution was reached. While the MLSA agreed to engage at the WRC, it did not lift its industrial action, which is a breach of Building Momentum. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, is very disappointed that the strike action has proceeded despite it being precluded under the agreement. The Minister recognises the significant disruption caused by the strike and the impact it is having on the health service. Health management is committed to continuing engagement with the MLSA, while acknowledging that all parties must adhere to the provisions allowed for under Building Momentum and to resolve any disputes within the framework of the current agreement.

Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response, although I have to say it is just a standard textbook response which means nothing to the workers involved in this dispute. It is quite outrageous for the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, to say he is disappointed that the strike action has proceeded. With all due respect the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, is completely missing the point. These workers have had 20 years of trying to get pay justice and they have been ignored at every turn. They were clear last week when they said they did not want to undertake this action and that all they wanted were meaningful negotiations. I quoted Terry Casey to the Minister of State and he said they have not had any meaningful negotiations and yet we have this statement that the Minister for Health is disappointed. He is missing the point. The people of Ireland are disappointed in the Minister for Health and in this Government. This dispute should never have been let happen. It was clear and the Government had six months to fix this since the strike ballot, on top of the 20 years governments have already had, and it has come up with nothing. A creative solution is entirely within the grasp of this Government but it needs the active involvement of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It is clear from the Minister of State's response that the Minister for Health has failed to get that commitment. That is why this strike is proceeding. What hope will the Government offer the people of Ireland next week when it comes to further industrial action? There is nothing in the speech the Minister of State has given here to offer any hope of a resolution to these workers or to the people desperately waiting for health appointments. It is not good enough.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Again, the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, is disappointed the MLSA has initiated strike action. Its vital role and presence in clinical settings across the country was suspended last week, causing disruption across the health service. Its decision to strike was contrary to its commitment under Building Momentum, which states that parties to Building Momentum agree that the industrial peace will be maintained within the lifetime of the agreement. The Minister has outlined that the Department of Health is bound by the existing pay agreement, Building Momentum, which clearly states that sectoral bargaining is the only mechanism for addressing outstanding claims within the lifetime of the agreement. I assure the Senator that the health service management, in association with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, remain committed to engaging with the MLSA. I reiterate how significant its presence is across the health service and the Minister for Health will continue to engage with the MLSA and make every effort to ensure a resolution is found as soon as possible.