Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I know it is not exactly his role, but I suppose he is here to bring the message back. I will not attack him personally.

The recently-broadcast television programme highlighting the lack of transparency in local authorities was shocking. It must be frustrating for the people of Ireland, whose only say in local authorities is voting for their local county councillor, because there is this other tier in the council, removed from the public representatives, that has been put there by people who were not chosen by the people, yet who are there to run the county for the people of the county. We need to look at that and see what we can do to improve it to give people faith in their local civil servants and make sure there is a bridge between people on the ground in their communities who know what is needed and wanted and the people making the decisions on how money should be spent and what the priorities are in the county.

I would be interested to hear if, even if there was no “RTÉ Investigates” report, this is something perhaps that the Minister was looking at anyway. I know there has been work and discussions on looking at local authorities and how they operate and their decision-making. It is not clear from local authority to local authority what the decision-making process is. Who gets to decide the county's priority? Is it this one golden egg that will make the council a load of money in one place, is it coming from the communities themselves, saying what they need and want, is it just based on Fáilte Ireland giving local authorities money for a certain project so that is what they will do, or is it the case where there is money for something so that is what they will do?

We have public participation network, PPNs, that I would love seeing more of because they bring in people from communities into the council. I do not know how valued they are in their respective local authorities. I cannot criticise any or all local authorities because there is no consistency. If there is no consistency, that should be based on the fact that they represent the people of that county. That is only reason there should be inconsistencies, otherwise there should be good community development workers in each county who reach out to communities, listen to what is needed by them, and then bring that back into the local authority, with that then becoming a priority for the local authority.

Some counties have a climate, biodiversity, heritage or sustainable transport officers, and some have none of those. Some have them but do not really value them. The inconsistency across the State is quite worrying in some ways because, at the end of the day, local authorities have much responsibility. They are the closest to the people who live in our societies and have opinions and desires.

We need to look at the fact there is no participation in how the budget is spent because it is decided behind closed doors.There is no democratic participation. Live streaming of council meetings is hit and miss - some do it and some will never do it. Why is that not par for the course? With live streaming, there is nothing to hide. We have to look at democratising local government a lot more.

Even with regard to the PPNs, with the best will in the world, they are not given much of a platform and many community groups are not engaged with them either. I would love to see community development workers going out to communities and holding public meetings. There is this fear of holding public meetings. We used to be great for public meetings long ago and it was the best thing. Yes, there was war and there were fights, but maybe it is okay to express ourselves. Sometimes all people want is to be listened to, and they can then accept that, for the community as a whole, this is a more important thing. However, we cannot be dictated to by where the funding is or what some random individual in one local authority has as a priority for themselves and their mission. We need to see consistency in representation.

It is hard for the councillors in some ways because they are picked by the people so it is all their fault if something is not happening. However, they are not the big decision-makers in the local authorities and we know that. It would be good to see us looking at how we can make people have more faith in local authority decision-making and at how the councillors themselves can be more involved. That would be more democratic and more inclusive and would mean communities are being listened to and are influencing the decisions made by local authorities.

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Garvey for raising a very important issue and a very important point. I was a member of Roscommon County Council from 1999 to 2003, before the dual mandate ended. The dual mandate change had a purpose because we were in Dublin trying to be at all of the various meetings, from the county enterprise board to the vocational education committee, VEC, to the regional authorities, and it simply was not sustainable. However, the current system does lose that kind of work on the ground, which is where the local authority members are very important. They get elected by the community and they work with all of the various communities.

The Senator rightly referred to the PPN. I did not realise the nature of the responsibilities and the work schedule. If people are elected to the local authority, they have a responsibility and, while I will not call it power, they have a workload to deliver for their community but also for the county and the country. Senator Garvey also talked about the live streaming of council meetings, which some councils do, and it is open and transparent.

The “RTÉ Investigates” programme was critical of the level of accountability and transparency within the local government system, citing a number of specific cases in local authorities to back up its claims. It is somewhat ironic that, in doing so, RTÉ relied to a significant extent on the work and findings of the Local Government Audit Service, LGAS. In fact, the majority of the cases highlighted in the programme were taken from LGAS audit reports, which are published annually, and management letters issued to local authorities in the course of the annual audit. The reporting of these audit issues illustrates the positive impact the LGAS has on systems and procedures in local authorities.

The programme also highlighted instances where disciplinary proceedings were pursued by local authorities against members of staff and reports referred to An Garda Síochána for investigation. It is correct that details of such cases would not be put in the public domain for reasons of natural justice, but also in case doing so would prejudice the Garda investigation.

It is important to bear in mind that local authorities are entirely independent corporate entities. They have a constitutional basis, and Article 28A of the Constitution recognises the role of local government in providing a forum for the democratic representation of communities and in exercising and performing powers conferred by law. Like the board of directors of a public company, an elected council’s key role is the governance and oversight of their local authority, including in regard to audit practices and holding the chief executive and his or her officials to account. These functions are set down in law. Elected councils and councillors take this oversight and governance role very seriously. The Association of Irish Local Government, AILG, and local authorities work hard to ensure that councillors are equipped and trained to fulfil this vital role. Some of the cases highlighted by RTÉ were debated and agreed by majority resolution of the elected council. In those cases, this was the appropriate forum for those issues to be addressed.

We should recognise that the Local Government Reform Act 2014 introduced significant improvements in local government accountability arrangements and further strengthened governance in local authorities. The Act reinforced the operation of audit committees in local authorities and established the National Oversight and Audit Commission, NOAC. Audit committees review financial and budgetary reporting practices and procedures within the local authority. They also review any audited financial statement, auditor’s report or auditor’s special report in regard to the local authority and assess actions taken by the chief executive in response. The NOAC is the national independent oversight body for the local government sector. The NOAC’s functions cover all local authority activities and involve the scrutiny of performance generally and financial performance specifically, as well as supporting best practice. Both the NOAC and the Local Government Audit Service have had periodic attendance at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

Róisín Garvey (Green Party)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. It is great that he acknowledged the Local Government Audit Service but, first, who knew that was even there and, second, who has time to check it up? We do not want to create a way of keeping an eye on the local authority. It is not like that. What we need is for people to have trust in the local authority in order that they do not have to find time to check the auditing services to see what they are up to. For me, what is important is that we know what local authorities are doing. I am not criticising Clare County Council, which does a lot of good work, as do many local authorities, but we need people to feel that those working in the local authorities, especially the decision-makers at the top, are doing so with the will of the people. That is their job. They are civil servants and they are there to serve civil society. It is a matter of seeing how that is happening and how the decision-making is being done. This is to make sure they represent what people's needs and wants are in the locality, as opposed to them spending €7.8 million on this one thing they have decided will make them a load of money, while people are trying to campaign for one pedestrian crossing, one public seat or one playground. Surely that kind of stuff should be standard and expected of the local authorities.

Frank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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As we look to the future, there are a number of important local government reforms and policy initiatives under way which will further enhance local democracy and accountability. During the summer session, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage expects to publish a Bill providing for a directly-elected mayor with executive functions for Limerick City and County Council. The Bill will also provide for the possibility of plebiscites on directly-elected mayors with executive functions in other local authorities. The Dublin Citizens’ Assembly, which is to consider the type of directly-elected mayor and local government structures best suited for Dublin, will begin its work in April. In 2021, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage commenced a review of Putting People First - Action Programme for Effective Local Government in order to assess the implementation of the 2014 reforms across the local government sector. An assessment of municipal districts to determine the improvements required to enhance their operation is also under way.

I thank Senator Garvey for raising this issue. Councils and councillors take oversight issues very seriously. I understand that, over the years, the Association of Irish Local Government has been working hard to ensure that councillors are equipped and trained to fulfil this vital role.