Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, to the House.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I am very glad to get an opportunity to speak about this topic of the deposit return scheme. It is a concept that has potential to enable an entirely new way that people look at packaging and create new, positive habits for our country. It is a gateway to an entirely new way of consuming goods and re-imagining the concept of packaging.I am sure that some of us remember running around as children and lifting any glass bottles that we could find in order to sell them back to the shops to earn enough money to eat our weight in Macaroon Bars, Clove Drops and cough sweets. I have wonderful memories of picking bottles out of ditches, cleaning them and bringing them back to my local shop where Mrs. Barry, who is now deceased, would take control of the transaction and look after us very eager and sugar deprived children. That model, irrespective of the motives back then, is very similar to the circular economy that we need to incorporate into our lives. The Minister of State will agree with me that we need to design products that will last. This country needs a drinks deposit returns scheme that is as ambitious as possible. I will understand if the a scheme is introduced in a phased way but I urge that targets are set for each phase and that we legislate for the targets. I stress that there needs to be clear timelines to include glass, carton packaging and the move towards a digital deposit returns scheme, DRS, thus enabling the model to be expanded into a reuse model. The DRS should use a variable fee that includes all of the materials. Such an scheme would be a powerful tool to improve recycling rates and make consumers think twice about the environmental impact of the product that they buy.

I hope that the scheme has a variable rate fee and that containers are allocated a deposit value based on the size. A flat-rate model or fixed fee could apply to all beverage containers. Recently I met representatives of the Aluminium Packaging Recycling Organisation Ireland, ALUPRO, who highlighted that research shows that the possibility would cause an unfair advantage for plastic bottles as many consumers would be unwilling to pay extra upfront in terms of the flat rate for, say, a 24-can multi-pack compared with the far cheaper 2 litre bottle. We should acknowledge that packaging is not worthless or should not be seen as waste. We need to move towards a scheme of a deposit return for packaging for the reuse model and only use the linear single-use recyclable model in the most limited circumstances. There will still be a need for single-use plastics but we need to reduce where practicable and always incentivise companies to change to better products. Ireland is a small nation and has a huge opportunity to make its economy one of the best examples of a circular economy. I am incredibly ambitious for this deposit returns scheme. I want this Government to be bold and ambitious too. People want a modern, accessible and wide-ranging scheme.

Recently I had an interesting meeting with representatives of the Alliance for Beverage Cartons and the Environment or ACE Ireland and we discussed this topic. ACE Ireland believes that a digital or smart deposit returns scheme should be examined alongside the conventional return to retail scheme. A digital DRS would ultimately prove a more flexible and adaptable system for widening the scope of acceptable materials. In order for there to be less waste we need to enable people to change. A digital system would result in a more user-friendly system where customers could access a scheme through placing materials in their mixed dry recycling bins that are collected at the kerbside. A digital DRS could also remove the burden on consumers who store used packaging materials in their homes and return them in bulk to shops or supermarkets during their next visit. I want people to change but we need that help. We need to make recycling easy. We need to incentivise, encourage, create opportunities and create ways to access a new-age circular economy in Ireland. We can do that by using modern and ever upgrading technology to provide a DR scheme. I know that such developments cannot happen overnight but we can do it in the next five years if we are really ambitious to provide such a scheme.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I congratulate the Senator on her enterprising childhood. The equivalent in my area was to gather and sell frogs, which were sold to the European market.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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The poor frogs.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The Senator is correct and her questions are excellent. Many people remember, with some nostalgia, that they could get money back for bottles. Just like the Senator I recall going to the local pub before I was of an age where I was allowed in and returning bottles and getting money for them. It was a clear link and reduced the amount of litter on the ground. People understand the concept. They know that a DRS is good and has worked in the past. A lot of principles within the circular economy involve a return to practices that our parents would have engaged in such as repairing clothes, shoes, etc.

On the specific point of a digital returns scheme, this is something that we have looked at and the industry has lobbied for same.With that in mind, the regulations we issued allow for a digital returns scheme. It is possible within those regulations to allow for variable pricing. I understand the benefits that can come from offering different amounts of money depending on how recyclable a product is. I can see the advantages.

The challenge for me is that such a scheme, as far as I am aware, is not commercially operating anywhere. I am bringing in a scheme which will operate for 5 million people in one go. I need to bring in something I know will work. I know the industry has carried out a pilot scheme in one area, which is a good first step. There were 200 people involved but I am bringing in a scheme for 5 million people.

The programme for Government marked a turning point in how Ireland approaches waste management and the circular economy. Instead of narrowly focusing on how we treat and dispose of the waste we produce, the Government is committed to building a circular economy where waste is minimised, economic growth decoupled from resource consumption and the value of goods and materials retained in our economy for as long as possible.

Reforming our use of plastic is one of the key measures outlined in the Waste Action Plan for a Circular Economy. Tackling our excessive use of single-use plastics is an urgent priority here and across the EU. Under the 2019 single-use plastics directive, Ireland must achieve a collection target of 90% recycling for plastic bottles by 2029, with an interim target of 77% by 2025. A report prepared for my Department concluded that a deposit return scheme, DRS, is the only feasible way to achieve the required levels of performance under the single-use plastics directive.

In September 2020, the Waste Action Plan for a Circular Economy set out a roadmap for the introduction of a deposit return scheme in the third quarter of 2022. To deliver on this objective, a public consultation on the design options of such a DRS was completed in 2020 and a working group of Department officials and stakeholders was established to discuss the implementation of the scheme. The group met on a number of occasions and, arising from these discussions, a second public consultation focusing on the preferred model was completed early in 2021. The preferred model that emerged is based on a return to retailer in respect of plastic bottles and aluminium drinks cans. The beverage industry will fund and operate the scheme.

The separate collection DRS regulations 2021 give effect to the outcome of this policy development. They were published in November and provide the framework for the approval of a scheme operator.

The regulations introduce a requirement on producers to establish a DRS or to appoint a body to operate it on their behalf. The deposit return scheme will apply to beverage bottles manufactured from polyethylene terephthalate, PET, with a capacity of up to 3 l and beverage containers manufactured from aluminium or steel with a capacity of up to 3 l. They also introduce an application and approval process for the appointment of an approved body to operate the scheme, set out the functions to be carried out by such an approved body, the obligations required of producers, retailers and return points and make provisions relating to the deposit to be paid.

While these regulations represent a significant milestone in the introduction of a DRS, some important issues remain to be addressed in further regulations. Some technical and transitional matters required further considerations, including planning exemptions for DRS infrastructure and VAT matters and the level of the deposit zero rated in the November 2021 regulations, enforcement arrangements and some limited exemptions.

The next milestone in the project is the appointment of an approved body to operate the scheme. I understand from industry representatives that in recent weeks a company was incorporated which will design and propose a deposit return scheme for my approval. While industry has noted that the timeframe for introduction of quarter 3 of 2022 is ambitious, my Department is monitoring progress closely.

I have allowed further time to consider the level at which a deposit should be set and to consider matters such as whether the deposit should be variable and what provisions should apply to beverage containers sold as part of a multipack. Senator McGreehan raised this issue and I take her point. However, I will introduce further regulations prior to the introduction of the scheme to establish, among other things, the level of deposit for the materials to be collected.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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As the saying goes, I have a dream. I have a dream that our waste and packaging will not be perceived as waste, rather as a valuable part of our economy for which there is always a use. We spend substantial amounts on picking up waste. Councils' resources are stretched by picking up rubbish. It is not rubbish, however, but a valuable product that we should always utilise.

The Minister of State has the support of Fianna Fáil in pushing for a reuse model for packaging throughout the commercial and small business sector, with incentives and support to make it possible for consumers to change over. He will have buy-in from all consumers and businesses.

I want to hold on to the wind of change and make sure we succeed, in the lifetime of this Government, in bringing in a positive, worthwhile and proper circular economy.I want to hold onto that and make sure that we succeed in bringing in a really positive and worthwhile proper circular economy within the lifetime of this Government. I really look forward to it. It is a hobby horse of mine. I am a great champion of it.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I can hear the Senator's enthusiasm. I have to give the Department credit for doing a lot of work, before I was appointed, in engaging with the industry. I refer not just to the people making bottles, but to the retailers themselves. They were making sure that it would not be a scheme that would work in theory but not in practice or something that people would be against. Part of that involved bringing retailers to meet their equivalents in other countries where the scheme had been running for decades and allowing one supermarket owner to say directly to another what happens in practice, how the scheme works and how it can be made work.

Last week, I was in Spain for St. Patrick's Day and I visited the person who is in charge of setting up the scheme in Spain, which is facing the same issues as we are although it is not as far down the road as we are. Engagement is the most important part so that we do not bring in a scheme that works in theory but not in practice. We have the industry, the retailers and the public on side.

The Senator mentioned littering during the pandemic. One would wake up in the morning and find the remains of picnics. When the bars were closed, people, and not just young people, were leaving large quantities of cans and bottles in fields. That is not going to happen when they are worth money. Nobody is going to leave cash on the ground. It will be an immediate solution to that problem. I expect the Tidy Towns groups will find that not only will there be much less to pick up, but that what they do pick up will be worth money.