Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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This is not the first time that I have raised the issue of the Energy Charter Treaty with the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth. I would like to tease out today some of the issues around the news that the Government is going to install 2,000 MW of thermal generation capacity. The International Energy Agency have forecast that if governments are serious about achieving the climate targets, then there can be no new oil, gas or coal development. Here we are, however, a few months later and the Government are proposing to build several new gas-fired power plants.

My first concern, and I would like to hear assurances from the Minister of State on this, is the proposal to open up these gas-powered plants and how it leaves citizens liable to compensation claims under the Energy Charter Treaty. These generation facilities will have the protection of the investor-state dispute mechanism within the Energy Charter Treaty, which allows the companies to sue governments for taking climate action and to claim very significant compensation in special corporate courts with little oversight. That is compensation money that could be spent on a just transition and will make decarbonisation much more expensive for citizens.

There are concerning parallels between the situation we find ourselves in currently around energy security and that of the Dutch in 2007 and 2009. In 2007 the Dutch found they were over-reliant on gas and were facing rising energy prices. In a bid to bring down the cost of energy for households, they invited coal-powered plants to set up in the Netherlands. There was the successful Urgenda climate court case, with which I am sure, as a Green Party member, the Minister of State would be very familiar. The Dutch Government was told it had to do more to be compliant with the Paris Agreement and to bring down its emissions. The easiest thing for it to do was, of course, to tackle the dirtiest industry, which is the coal-fired power plants. The Dutch Government said it was going to phase out those coal-fired power plants by 2030 and is now facing a €2.4 billion compensation claim from RWE - which, interestingly, is investing in our offshore wind in Ireland - and Uniper.

What risk analysis has the Government carried out on these gas-fired power plants? If these are temporary gas-fired power plants, how are we going to ensure we are not then liable for compensation claims when we choose to phase out these gas companies?I would like assurances from the Minister of State as to the duration of the contract they are being offered in the public procurement process. We are being told that these generators will be used as little as possible and that they are there as an emergency backup. What sort of commitment are we giving to investors and those in the business of making profits in terms of their income? We are telling them that we want them to set up here but the gas-fired power plants may never be powered up. What sort of financial incentives are the investors being offered? That does not seem like a very good investment. If we are serious about decarbonisation, will there be a stipulation in the public procurement contract that the infrastructure will be capable of taking hydrogen and that it should be mandated to transition to the use of green hydrogen?

Finally, as with waste, the key issue is reducing demand for energy. That should be our starting point in respect of renewable energy and all of that. It should be about reducing the amount of energy we need in the first place. We all know that the reason we have the gas-fired power plants is data centres. The EirGrid CEO left us in no doubt because he said the quiet bit out loud when he was speaking at an event for the data centre lobby. He said that the reason this proposition has come out is EirGrid cannot its customers connected with sufficient electricity in the near term. It is as simple as that. He said that the proposition is designed fundamentally to try to give clients and critical FDI coming into the country a way to continue to grow their business. That contradicts completely the hierarchy of energy use. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State's response.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The programme for Government commits Ireland to an average 7% per annum reduction in overall greenhouse gas emissions from 2021 to 2030, a 51% reduction over the decade, and to achieving net-zero emissions by 2050. To contribute to the achievement of these targets, the Government has committed that up to 80% of electricity consumption will come from renewable sources by 2030 on a pathway to net-zero emissions. It is vital that as Ireland transitions to a low- and then a zero-carbon electricity system, security of electricity supply is also maintained. Much of the existing high-emitting conventional generation is expected to cease operation over the coming years. This capacity will need to be replaced by generation that provides the same support and backup capability, but is also flexible, thus enabling it to support high levels of generation from wind and solar. For instance, such generation may need to increase and decrease output quickly in response to changes in output from renewable generation.

The national development plan, NDP, and the Climate Action Plan 2021 set out the need to develop approximately 2,000 MW of new gas-fired generation to ensure security of supply and underpin Ireland's increased target of up to 80% of electricity demand to come from renewable sources by 2030. Last week, the Government approved and published a policy statement on the security of electricity supply that sets out that the development of new conventional generation is a national priority and should be permitted and supported to ensure security of electricity supply and support the growth of renewable electricity generation.

The second point that the Senator raised relates to the Energy Charter Treaty. The treaty is a political declaration on international energy co-operation with 53 signatories and contracting parties that entered into legal force in 1998. The treaty's provisions focus on four broad areas: the protection of foreign investments and the protection against key non-commercial risks; non-discriminatory conditions for trade in energy materials, products and energy-related equipment based on WTO rules and provisions to ensure reliable cross-border energy transit flows through pipelines, grids and other means of transportation; the resolution of disputes between the participating states, and in the case of investments, between investors and host states; and the promotion of energy efficiency and attempts to minimise the environmental impact of energy production and use.

The treaty is designed to promote energy security through the operation of more open and competitive energy markets while respecting the principles of sustainable development and sovereignty over energy resources. Negotiations to modernise the treaty are under way, led by the European Commission, reforming the protections to carbon-intensive energy infrastructure. I look forward to the discussion.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I am not reassured at all, with all due respect to the Minister of State. The question concerns what these gas-fired power plant companies being told when they are set up here. Are they being given a deadline and being told this is a short-term investment?Most of these large infrastructure projects would have a lifespan of 30 or 40 years. What assurances have they been given or what have they been told? What financial guarantees have they been given that this is going to be a secure investment if we are being told that we might not actually need them to switch on at all?

On the modernisation of the treaty, would the Minister of State tell us if a deadline has been set for the modernisation process? Currently it is going nowhere, or so it seems from all reports. Unanimity is required for changes, but Japan has said it does not want any changes. Six EU countries are calling for the EU to leave as a bloc because the treaty is unreformable and cannot be reformed. It is not compliant with the Paris Agreement. The EU's proposals as part of the modernisation process would not make it Paris-compliant. Is there a deadline for the modernisation process by which we just cut our losses and get out? What commitments have been given to these gas-fired power plants about the timeframe and how often they would be used?

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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It is interesting that the Senator raised the possibility of being sued by another country. The Senator raised RWE as an example. A recent European Court of Justice ruling decided that countries within the EU cannot sue other EU member states under the Energy Charter Treaty.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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It is being ignored by the tribunals.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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These cases between EU member states are excluded as a result of that.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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They are not. The tribunals are proceeding. That is the fact.

Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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The Minister of State without interruption, please.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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It is a judgment from the European Court of Justice.

On the question of whether the 2 GW of power we are commissioning will be covered by the Energy Charter Treaty, it depends on which countries win the contracts to build them. Those contracts have not been agreed or specified, so the terms are not known. I take the Senator's point on how long it is going to last. We need 2 GW of power by 2030, but they are long-lasting pieces of infrastructure. Of course, as the Senator will understand, they are not designed to run all of the time. They are not for base load, they are for peaking power and for emergency times when power is needed, so there may be more capacity but less gas actually being burned.

Of course risk assessments will be carried out. The chance of being sued by an investor will be considered as part of the risk assessment when the contracts are drawn up under procurement.