Seanad debates

Thursday, 2 December 2021

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Further and Higher Education

10:30 am

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister, Deputy Harris, to the House.

Photo of John McGahonJohn McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming to the House. I know he is extremely busy. It shows his commitment to Dundalk Institute of Technology, DkIT, and the Dundalk region. It has been very disheartening to see all of these technical universities, TUs, starting up yet Dundalk is not there. The reason is very well known. I am not here today to cast blame on individuals as to why we are not at that standard. I am here to try to find a way forward with the Minister for the future of DkIT and higher education in the north east. There are a couple of key questions I am hoping to get some clarity on from today's debate. The first concerns section 38. This legislative provision was originally made to allow for an IT to join an existing TU. One of the fears I have is that the Department never really envisaged section 38 having to be used for a considerable time. The concept was that TUs are a really good thing and every IT in the country would want to be getting on board. For reasons outlined previously, DkIT has been slow to grasp that nettle. I am hoping for clarity from the Minister or from the HEA that the procedures behind section 38 are in place and when an application comes in from DkIT for a TU, the Minister and his Department will be standing ready and willing to assist DkIT in joining up with a TU.

When we live in an era of misinformation and sound bites it is disingenuous for politicians anywhere to try to suggest that DkIT could be a stand-alone university. There is no such thing as stand-alone universities in the legislation. The TUs are combinations of ITs, not stand-alone universities. We have to be very clear about it in Dundalk as well. To be blunt, 4,000 students is not the critical mass for a stand-alone university. It is totally disingenuous to suggest otherwise and doing so demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the whole process.

On the shared island funding, with Dundalk a Border town, a fear may exist that we might miss out on any potential funding from the shared island unit, which might go to TUs, and that DkIT could be left behind until it joins a TU. It would be great to get confirmation from the Minister that while DkIT is in this transitional stage before it joins a TU, it will not be overlooked for any shared island funding from the shared island unit.

I would like to take the opportunity to praise the Minister for the work he has done on this. He has met Oireachtas Members from counties Louth, Meath, Cavan and Monaghan so many times over the last year. He has met stakeholders involved with DkIT and has been able to meet me at any stage to discuss DkIT. I thank him for that. I would like to invite him to DkIT at some stage in the next couple of months, early in the new year. This would allow him to meet stakeholders directly, see the campus for himself, and have people who are involved with everyday life in DkIT outline their ambitions and where they see it going with the TU.

I would really appreciate some clarity on section 38, on how DkIT will never really be able to be a stand-alone university and how it is disingenuous to suggest it could be, on the shared island funding, and on the Minister perhaps coming to DkIT at some stage in the future.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for tabling this important debate today about Dundalk IT and crucially about ensuring we have a technological university for the north east of the country. I also thank the Senator for keeping this item on the political agenda and for all the engagement and discussions we have had on it. Let me be really clear. The north east is not going to be left behind. The Government, my Department and I are absolutely committed to ensuring that the north east has a technological university or is part of a technological university. The north east needs a technological university for a whole load of reasons, including access to university status within the region. It also needs one in terms of balanced regional development and ensuring people can invest in the region. From an investment point of view, a rural Ireland and regional development point of view, a Border point of view and an educational point of view, this needs to happen.

We all know the reason it has not happened to date. We are not going to get into that today other than to note it is a statement of fact that no Minister has an ability to create a technological university without an application being submitted, and rightly so. I will be extraordinarily happy to receive an application in respect of DkIT becoming part of the technological universities. I fully recognise and value the very important contribution of Dundalk Institute of Technology. I want to thank everybody in DkIT for what they are doing. It is continuing to make a very significant and positive impact in the north east, in Dundalk and Louth and throughout the region. In order to achieve further progress, I remain strongly committed to enabling the institute's participation within a multi-campus technological university. It is now, as the Senator said, one of only two institutes of technology not part of a technological university and not in the process of development of becoming one.

If we had been having this discussion a couple of months ago, we would be in a very different place. I am pleased to say we are in a position to report significant progress. Dundalk IT has published its vision earlier this year, which states that it wants to become a dynamic, accessible, student-centred campus within a multi-campus regional TU. A stand-alone university is not its vision, nor is it legally possible. This is its vision. Every politician and stakeholder in Dundalk needs to get on board with this. Dundalk IT, the staff, students, governing body and management team, have come together and put out this vision for what they want. This, in and of itself, marks meaningful progress on the proposed trajectory towards achieving TU status.

I am delighted to say also that the elaboration of this vision provides certainty and should enable staff, students and wider stakeholders to be assured of the direction of travel of their organisation. The debate over what will happen and where we want DkIT to go is kind of over. Once that strategic vision of all stakeholders in DkIT was published, we had that certainty.

I am pleased to report that the institute has put in place a structure to drive on this project. There is a project team, a steering group and a lot of really good work going on. I am also very pleased to say that we are now providing Exchequer funding. Even though it is not yet a TU, we are providing funding through the technological university transformation fund. We are putting our money where our mouth is in terms of advancing this agenda. That fund is administered by the Higher Education Authority.

In addition to the funding, we have now provided a dedicated special expert adviser to DkIT to drive this project. This has been key to delivering technological universities in my experience. I thank Dr. Ruaidhrí Neavyn for the work he is doing providing technical knowledge and advice to the institute. I understand as recently as yesterday that this work is going well. Funding is in place. An expert adviser is in place. A shared vision is in place.Let us visit DkIT, and let us also meet stakeholders more broadly in the economic and societal set-up of the north east. We are going to get there, but we need those in the region to prepare by determining how they can harness what could be a real powerhouse for growth and education.

Photo of John McGahonJohn McGahon (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for that. That is exactly the kind of clear sense and thinking I was hoping to get from this debate. I very much appreciate it.

It is important that the Minister has outlined the concept of a stand-alone university. It is not legally possible, nor is it even part of the strategic vision of the people involved in DkIT. It is clear, in black and white, that they want to be part of a technological university. The Minister mentioned Dr. Ruaidhrí Neavyn, the expert adviser. It is important that we are already assisting in the transition towards a technological university. In this whole debate, I took heart most from the Minister's clear commitment that once an application comes straight from DkIT to his ministerial desk, he will be ready and willing to approve it and start the process officially. I very much look forward to welcoming him to DkIT in the near future.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator McGahon. When people look back on 2021, they will see it as a very significant year for making progress for the north east in respect of education, including higher education and the future of DkIT. It will be the year in which there was an agreed plan based on the vision, in which funding was put in place and in which the expert adviser was appointed.

I should have said in my comments on section 38 that there will be no blockages in my Department or the HEA in progressing any application that comes forward. In fairness to the HEA, it has a really good track record on this. It has had a very busy year of assessing technological university applications. I thank it for that.

My final point echoes the important point the Senator made on the shared island fund. I will be spending Sunday and Monday in the North having conversations about greater collaboration. There may be no institutes better positioned than those in Letterkenny and Dundalk to engage in cross-Border collaboration and co-operation. I am looking forward to having a conversation, when I visit Queen's, on interim measures that may be capable of being put in place to ensure greater student mobility north and south of the Border. The shared island fund, administered by the Department of the Taoiseach, is available for all collaborations. DkIT will not in any way miss out at this transition point. I really look forward to 2022. We can make a lot of progress for DkIT and the north east.

Sitting suspended at 11.23 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.