Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for facilitating this Commencement debate and the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, for attending. The building belonging to the Technological University, TU, of Dublin on the Lower Rathmines Road has been vacated because of the university's relocation to the Grangegorman campus. Space is now available to the Department of Education in the substantial buildings and prefabs on the former TU Dublin site.A proposal to temporarily accommodate the Harcourt Terrace Educate Together school within the main building vacated by the Technological University Dublin, TU Dublin, has been made by the Department, with a site visit undertaken by the Educate Together school principal last week. Rathmines College of Further Education, which is located in Rathmines Town Hall directly across the road, has been experiencing a severe shortage of classroom space for some time, and has requested that space be allocated on a long-term basis within the main building, which has been designed for third level education and was originally part of the College of Commerce there. Facilities in that main building include steep staircases and limited basement toilets, making the building less suitable for the needs of primary school children, in terms of health and safety requirements, and make it more suitable for third level students. A number of prefab buildings, including a kitchen and staff area and a general purpose room, and access to outdoor yard areas, indicate that the prefabs may be a more suitable temporary location for the Educate Together school community while it awaits the completion of its new Harcourt Terrace school in two years' time. Rathmines College of Further Education is in need of classroom space for its more than 700 students who are cramped in the current facilities in the Rathmines Town Hall.

A move would allow for the restoration of the stunning but disused 19th century Rathmines concert hall inside the town hall building. That amenity could be brought back into use as a civic, cultural and educational amenity for the whole community. I and other representatives in the area have formed a group called the Friends of Rathmines Town Hall, and we have been working on the possibility of the restoration of the concert hall there. The town hall and the former DIT conservatory of music buildings were visited by the Minister of State with responsibility for heritage, Deputy Malcolm Noonan, and his officials in the last two weeks. The Minister of State's Department seems enthusiastic that the project be realised with co-operation between his Department, the Department of Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, and in the first instance the Department of Education. I fully appreciate that there is a short-term need for accommodation at the Rathmines campus, and I fully appreciate that restoration of the concert hall in the Rathmines Town Hall building will take time, but I ask that the Departments in question, and especially the Minister of State's Department and the Department of the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Simon Harris, would look at the needs of Rathmines College of Further Education and facilitate the sharing of the space, which has now been vacated by the Technological University Dublin, and that all interests can be progressed in parallel so the Rathmines College of Further Education can have the classrooms and other facilities it so vitally needs at this stage. I am interested to hear what the Minister of State has to say about this.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator McDowell for the question. The Senator will be aware that in April 2018, a 600 pupil post-primary school that will act as a regional solution for the Dublin 2 and Dublin 4 school planning area was announced. In 2019, my Department acquired the former Dublin Institute of Technology Rathmines building to accommodate this post-primary school. This post-primary school was originally to open in 2021 but for various reasons, including that the additional residential development has not yet materialised, the opening has been deferred. Nevertheless, the future requirement for the school remains and the Department is currently planning for the provision of the required accommodation at this location. When the Department acquired the property, it was leased back to TU Dublin, which originally owned the building. TU Dublin vacated the building in February 2020 on its move to its new campus at Grangegorman. In February 2021, the Department entered a short-term lease with City of Dublin Education and Training Board, CDETB, for it to lease the building from February 2021 to the end of June 2021. At the time, the Department advised the CDETB that it could not commit to a longer lease as it was unclear if the building would be required to meet school needs for the 2021-2022 school year. The Department indicated that should the building not be required for use as a school for that year the Department would be open to extension of the lease for a further 12 months.

The Senator will be aware that each year my Department has to make arrangements for temporary accommodation for schools where delivery of the permanent solution for the school may not be available for the upcoming school year. A number of schools are being looked at in this regard across the south Dublin area. Following a review of school requirements for the 2021-2022 school year and the development schedule for the Harold's Cross site it was concluded that there would be insufficient room for the Harcourt Terrace school to remain on the site for the 2021-2022 school year. The Rathmines building was identified as a temporary location for the Harcourt Terrace Educate Together national school for the next number of years pending the development of their permanent at school at Harcourt Terrace. Unfortunately, no alternative suitable facilities could be identified in the area for the Harcourt Terrace Educate Together national school.

The Department reviewed the facilities in the Rathmines building to identify how best it could be used and whether it could support the co-location of a number of entities. Following this assessment, however, it was identified that the building had a number of severe limitations, in particular the limited number of toilets and the location of toilets within the building. Unfortunately, the layout of the building does not support the subdividing of the building for use by different users where there would be a need to separate those users, as would be the case if primary school-aged pupils were to share the building with adult students who would attend a college of further education. While there are a number of modular units located in a yard attached to the building, the primary school pupils would be using this yard as a play area. Again, it would not appropriate to have primary-aged pupils and adult students sharing the one area.

I note what the Senator has said about the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, visiting the building recently, and I note the Senator's proposals to the Ministers, Deputies Catherine Martin and Simon Harris. I appreciate the difficult circumstances faced by the Rathmines College of Further Education around the space available to it and the capacity it has. The Senator referred to the cramped facilities and I will bring this to the attention of the Minister, Deputy Foley, as well as the other Ministers.

Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I am grateful to the Minister of State for explaining the present situation. I am not suggesting that anything permanent be done in the short term. What is not generally known among the citizens of Dublin is that in the old Rathmines Town Hall there was an auditorium that could accommodate some 2,000 people, which was before fire safety. It was a big concert hall that was used as a cinema and as a public meeting space and the like. Due to constraints in the past 20 years the College of Commerce in Rathmines, or its predecessor, put in a series of what are effectively prefab subdivisions on the ground floor of this substantial auditorium. If one can imagine the area of the auditorium, please consider the area of this Chamber where we now sit. Imagine where the Acting Chairperson is now sitting and this ground floor being covered in prefab internal structures, and the space above just left as a void. That is the situation that exists in Rathmines Town Hall. It is a real tragedy that it ever happened. I have looked at the former DIT technical institute building in Rathmines. There are serious limitations around toilet accommodation no matter who uses it, because it is in a basement and so on. I fully appreciate that the Minister has plans to build a second level school in the area. The interests of all these educational institutions and the local community can be looked at together and in the round. It would be a huge advantage for a school such as the one proposed to be built on this site, to have a major performing space for its purposes also. I ask that the Minister of State would keep an open mind on the matter and that irreversible decisions should not be made on silo thinking. There is a broader local interest to be taken into account between a number of very valuable educational institutions.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator McDowell for his comments. It is important that there is no silo thinking, especially when we are talking about education. The Senator appreciates the fact that an Educate Together national school will go into the old Rathmines DIT site from August, and that eventually a post-primary school will go in there also. There is no other place to put these particular schools, and this is the plan from the Department of Education's perspective. A collaborative aspect that would involve all the different Departments, including those overseen by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, and the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who the Senator said is enthusiastic about the performance space aspect, can be considered. It also applies to the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin. It is a real shame when an establishment such as the Rathmines College of Further Education does not have sufficient capacity and is limited. There must be a way to work towards a solution and if everybody puts their minds together, something fruitful could come out of it.