Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Before I move on to my main topic, I want to take this opportunity to commend the Minister for all her work in education. A lot of it is done early in the morning and late at night, and I often text the Minister with a problem and she always gets back to me. It is generally recognised that, through the most difficult period many of us have seen in our lives, she has acted in a fantastic manner and given great leadership. Having somebody doing the leaving certificate in our own home, I know that the moves she made to help are very much appreciated by students and parents throughout the country.

I want to deal with the issue of the records of the Land Commission. The Land Commission was created in 1881, originally as a rent fixing commission. Of course, it was then given responsibility for the distribution of farm land in most of Ireland. It was a 32-county organisation but, after independence, the records of Northern Ireland were separated and the records in the Republic are now held in Portlaoise. In 1885, the Ashbourne land Act allowed the commission to break up estates and facilitate tenant purchase. The Land Commission oversaw the transfer of 13.5 million acres of land, an extraordinary amount of land.

I believe a pathway could be found to perhaps get access to some of those records, for good reasons. All history records, wherever they are, will contain good stories and bad stories.This is an untapped resource. If there were greater access to the records, which are very limited in the Republic, it would generate great interest in our culture and history and promote tourism. Not only would the opening of some of the records for each county give us great insight into how things were done but there would also be a massive benefit, even in terms of employment. It would really show us how population movement occurred during the times in question and how getting Irish Land Commission land led to the formation of villages and towns.

My information is that there are in excess of 50,000 boxes of records held at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine buildings in Portlaoise. As the Minister probably knows, there are two components, namely a records branch and an administrative branch. Based on the research I have done, there could be up to 100,000 maps and 50,000 boxes in the records branch. There are more than 70,000 items in the administrative branch.

I am interested in how the breaking up of the big estates happened and the difference it made. It would be really fantastic if we could consider a pathway towards opening up the records further. I understand there are GDPR issues and that there are probably controversial issues also but I believe much of the information would be very good to have available and would be of great benefit to society.

It is important to point out that there is greater access to the records in Northern Ireland and that there has not been any great difficulty there. We could consider making some changes in this regard. There is a lot of work to be done on the archives by historians. I would like the Minister to take this on board, raise the matter with her Government colleagues and see whether some progress can be made on it. I thank her for being present to deal with this query.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator. I am commenting on behalf of my colleague the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, who, due to a prior commitment, is unable to be here. For the record, I will read his response.

He has made inquiries into the matter. The position is that there are no immediate plans to make the 8 million or so records of the former Irish Land Commission generally available to the public for research purposes or otherwise as they are still working documents. While the question specifically refers to records from the period 1870 to 1921, it is not feasible to separate out those records as they were lodged by reference to the estate to which they relate and not by date. Any given estate file could hold records covering the entire period of operation of the Irish Land Commission.

When the commission ceased functioning in 1992, its work was unfinished. The Department was charged with completing the work of the commission and, as such, the commission's records are still working documents, accessed by departmental staff daily. While officials in the Department are aware of the interest of the public, historians and genealogists in obtaining access to the vast depository of documents relating to the former Irish Land Commission, opening up access to these files cannot be considered until appropriate measures are undertaken to minimise potential damage from routine handling. The records, which are stored as a departmental facility in Portlaoise, exist in paper format only and are fragile. Some date back as far as the late 1800s and comprise a resource that would be irreplaceable if damaged. To maintain them, it is essential that they be handled and stored appropriately.

While limited access has been granted to researchers on application, on a case-by-case basis, the office does not provide a research facility as the provision of such a service would require much greater resources than those currently available. Wider access will be a matter for consideration when the completion of the work of the former Irish Land Commission is at a more advanced stage. However, the Department is examining the possibility of digitising certain key search aids, which will enable electronic searches to be carried out by members of the public to ascertain whether specific records exist. This work is at an early stage and a process of internal consultation between legal services, IT and the procurement division is taking place.

Furthermore, the Department has signed a memorandum of understanding with Trinity College Dublin on the Beyond 2022 project, which has undertaken an initial scoping of the pre-1922 Irish Land Commission records. That project is working to recreate the records lost in the destruction of the Public Records Office of Ireland at the Four Courts in 1922.

Eugene Murphy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My thanks to the Minister for bringing that reply to the House. It is an acknowledgement that something is happening, and that is to be welcomed. I have to accept there are some working documents in place that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine cannot release, but I imagine we could consider releasing some of the material in some areas.

I am talking about the records in the context of a fantastic tourism, history and heritage building in our area, the National Famine Museum in Strokestown. When things get back to some normality I intend to invite the Minister there. A local businessman, Mr. Callery, bought it some years back and he saved so many records. It is amazing how it has led to a tourism product that, before Covid-19, was bringing in 70,000 people to our town and area. There is a major beneficial effect from this. I would like to see the matter developed further. I appreciate there are difficulties, as I mentioned earlier, but it is good to get an answer that something is happening.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My thanks to the Senator for his kind remarks at the outset. I acknowledge and appreciate that this is a matter close to his heart. I acknowledge the bona fides with which he brings such a proposal. As he outlined, it has particular scope and benefit by reference to local historians, genealogy, researchers, diaspora tourism and so on.

As he will appreciate from the relevant Minister's notes, it is a work in progress. As he said, there are positive indications that there is forward planning, including in the digitisation of records. In itself this would be a considerable advancement. Steps are being taken, in the longer term rather than the shorter term, to advance this, as the Senator indicated.

Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you again Minister for your commitment in the House.