Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House to take this matter. When I tabled this Commencement matter prior to Easter, I was reflecting a frustration as I have been continuously raising this issue about the pension scheme for community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors, along with others, for quite some time but I am glad that we now see that we have had progress over this weekend. I hope that a deal will be in place. I understand that SIPTU will be considering the matter today.

I thank my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath. I have been plaguing him about this issue for quite a while. I commend Deputy McGrath on his work to try to get a deal over the line, along with the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, and the Minister, Deputy Humphreys.

Also, SIPTU needs to be thanked for all of its work on behalf of the workers concerned. This was a long-running campaign and, hopefully, it will reach fruition. Most importantly, the community employment supervisors and assistant supervisors themselves need to be thanked.In Wexford, I am thinking of Colette, Rita, Helen, Margot and many others who have battled for a long time on this issue. We have to acknowledge the enormously valuable service that community employment, CE, schemes provide within our communities, particularly the training and support they provide to participants who are, in many cases, long-term unemployed, as well as the fact the schemes represent enormous value for money. As we come out of this pandemic, these schemes will be more important than ever. We will need an economic recovery but we will also need a community and social recovery, and in that context, CE schemes must be part of any Government strategy.

This deal has been a long time coming. As the Minister of State knows, the Labour Court recommendation dates from 2008. The reason we have industrial relations machinery in this country is to try to avoid disputes, and while I accept there can be problems with implementing recommendations, it is not acceptable that it has taken 13 years, effectively, to get to a stage where we now have a deal. In 2008 the Labour Court found against the funding agency, namely, the State, rather than any of the nominal employers, that is, the voluntary organisations concerned. It does not make sense that where the State 100% determines the terms and conditions of CE supervisors and expects them to act effectively as case officers on behalf of scheme participants, it would then seek to deny it is the employer. The approach that was taken on this until recently was wrong.

I have a number of questions about the deal that was announced at the weekend and I hope clarity can be provided. Clarity is certainly needed if we are looking at a gratuity lump sum. What are the tax implications of that? That issue must be considered. Will it be possible for those who are still employed as CE supervisors or assistant supervisors to roll the redress lump sum into an existing pension fund? Current supervisors will get the lump sum but will that be used in future as part of the pension fund? It is important we have clarity on this but I am very happy it now seems we have a deal on the table. After 13 long years, we have finally seen progress and for that I am grateful.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator for consistently raising this matter.

Community employment, CE, is the largest employment activation and training programme administered by the Department of Social Protection. One of its main objectives is to provide work experience and targeted training interventions for long-term unemployed people to assist them to find new jobs. The CE programme is delivered by independent CE sponsoring authorities that receive public funding. The total expenditure for CE in 2020 was €341 million, while the budget for CE in 2021 is €362 million. There are currently 865 CE schemes in operation with 19,315 participants and 1,291 supervisors. CE schemes provide a range of services, including meals on wheels, social and healthcare, and all schemes provide valuable services to local communities and many have been particularly important over the past year in particular. CE scheme participants and supervisors are employees of the independent CE sponsoring authorities and the Department provides funding for participants and supervisors payroll. The Department is not the employer of CE participants or supervisors.

For several years CE supervisors and assistant supervisors have been seeking, through their union representatives, the allocation of Exchequer funding to implement the 2008 Labour Court recommendation relating to the provision of a pension scheme for CE supervisors who are employed by CE schemes. The issue of CE supervisors' pension provision was considered by a community sector high-level group chaired by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in 2017. A detailed scoping exercise was carried out with input from the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES, on the potential costs of providing Exchequer support for the establishment of such a pension scheme for employees across the community and voluntary sector and not just for CE supervisors. This exercise estimated a significant potential cost to the State, depending on the numbers involved, if it covered all employees in this sector. This explains the complex and difficult context in which we are seeking to resolve the specific CE supervisor pension issue and accounts for the time taken to get to where we are today. In particular, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform had to have regard to any potential Exchequer exposure associated with dealing with the specific issue relating solely to CE supervisors arising from the Labour Court recommendation. Any proposal to resolve this specific issue can and will only apply to CE supervisors and assistant supervisors. In this context, officials from the Department and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform held discussions on proposals to progress and resolve this issue over the past number of months while having regard to the wider budgetary framework. Officials from the Department also held discussions with unions representing CE supervisors and assistant supervisors during the same period.

I am very pleased to report there was a successful outcome to discussions between both Departments late last week. On Friday last, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Michael McGrath, and my colleague, the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Humphreys, reached agreement in principle on proposals to resolve this issue. This includes a financial package. This is a significant step forward and I thank all those involved in getting us to this stage.

The next step is for these proposals to be put to the trade unions representing CE supervisors and assistant supervisors. This will be done today. It would be premature to go into further details of what is proposed in advance of these plans being put to the unions but the Senator may rest assured the matter will be progressed without delay in order to bring this long-standing issue to a satisfactory conclusion.

Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I appreciate that agreement must be reached with the trade unions, which will consider the matter today. It will be important that there is, as I said, clarity around the tax implications and what will happen for those who continue to be in place. I am happy that this looks like the end of a very long journey for nearly 1,300 supervisors and assistant supervisors who are impacted by this. I ask - I know the Minister of State is personally committed to this - that as part of our recovery, we seek to rebuild our communities. We must look at ways of strengthening CE schemes around the country and rebuilding communities. This has been a very difficult period for everyone, as the Minister of State acknowledges. CE schemes play a vital role and supervisors and assistant supervisors provide leadership roles within them.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I absolutely agree with the Senator on the role CE schemes will hopefully play going forward. Last year, 3,000 additional CE places were announced in the July stimulus. We have been putting out feelers about the levels of interest in them and the levels are good. Schemes such as community employment will play a central part in bringing communities back from where we have been over the last 12 months.

I formally acknowledge the valuable and dedicated service of CE supervisors provide in running CE schemes and delivering locally based community service, while providing a valuable training and development opportunity to the long-term unemployed, often to those who are furthest removed from the labour market.

It should be noted that, where possible and in compliance with public health guidelines, a significant number of CE schemes have continued to operate throughout the various levels of Covid-19 public health restrictions. I am aware that schemes have been delivering essential services in their local communities throughout the current public health restrictions and that other schemes have been involved in delivering health and social care services as well. I sincerely thank those involved for what they have been doing over the last 12 to 14 months.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for coming in to respond to this matter. I also thank Senator Byrne. The CE scheme in my home town of Kenmare is vital. I have been involved in the running of the scheme for many years. Prior to that, the great Fr. Michael Murphy ran the scheme in Kenmare and did it so efficiently that we won the Tidy Towns gold medal in 2001. We were delighted with that but it was only achievable because of the CE scheme and the great work of those involved. Mr. Noel Crowley is currently running the scheme as a supervisor and finding it very difficult. Nonetheless, he and all the other supervisors around the country greatly appreciate the implementation of the report by the Labour Court.