Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, for coming into the House in relation to the issue of the mother and baby homes. Many Senators would have met Ms Sheila O'Byrne, who has been outside the gates of Leinster House on many occasions on this issue. She was in St. Patrick's on the Navan Road. She is a passionate advocate for the rights of people, such as herself, who were in those institutions and a voice that, like many others, must be heard.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. I thank the Minister for coming into the House. This is an important issue to my constituents, his constituents and survivors all over the world.

When the Minister came into the House in October of this year, he brought forward legislation to prevent the destruction of the records and the database from the commission of investigation. My colleague and I supported that legislation because we thought it was critically important that the database and records that had been assembled by the commission of investigation in the course of five years' work, detailing the history over 75 years, 18 institutions and more than 70,000 individuals, mothers and babies, would be protected and an unredacted form would be kept.

I asked the Minister at the time to take action, and I appreciate that he did, to ensure that the database and the records would be protected and that a complete version of it would be kept in the Department. I also sought guarantees around access to the personal data for the survivors and their children, that there would be an anonymised index published and that the Minister would champion the establishment of an archive in Sean McDermott Street.

I asked for the Minister to come to the House today in order that he could update the House on how survivors and their children will get access to their personal records. How will witnesses who gave testimony to the commission get access to their transcripts? How will information on the unmarked graves of those babies be made available?

Finally, the Minister might update us, if he can, on the Government's position on establishing an archive on Sean McDermott Street. It would be informative. Most importantly, what I am looking for an update on the Government's work to protect the records and the databases and, most critically, to give the survivors and their families access to their personal information to reclaim their identities, to know who they are, to end this terrible pain and shame and to bring this really dark period in our history into the daylight.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for coming into the House. As Senator Fitzpatrick said, this is a really important issue. We all have cried a tear and listened to many of the survivors in this country and the adoptees of those survivors who lived in the mother and baby homes. There are a few things I will mention that continue on from what Senator Fitzpatrick was saying. Tusla has stated in the media over the past couple of days that it fears it does not have sufficient staff to deal with the complex work that has emerged from even an initial assessment of the database. We now have a protected database. We have a report coming out that will raise hurt, fear and anxiety among survivors and I hope that we can, for the want of a better word, take an holistic approach to this. We need to look after these women and adoptees. We must prioritise them for mental health supports. Women who do not want to be found must have their privacy protected. I have spoken to women who fear that their past is going to be brought back in front of them and they do not want that because they have left the past behind. There is a balancing of rights issue there, as we have previously spoken about in committee.

I also want to make sure that we have no ambiguity as to the process, what is going to happen to this database and how these survivors and adoptees are going to find out about their past. The timelines and formalities around requesting information must be clear. We must make sure that these women and adoptees are looked after because it is going to be hard on all parties and they need minding, looking after, care and consideration.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank both Senators for giving me the opportunity to provide an update on some of these matters. As they know, I received the report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes on 30 October. As Senator Fitzpatrick mentioned, the report has been years in the making and survivors want to see it published soon. I share that wish. It is important that this report be published so that all of us can collectively understand better the experiences of the women who were in mother and baby homes and the experiences of the children who were born there.

Once the Government has given approval for publication of the report, I will engage directly with former residents as key stakeholders who are central to these issues and provide them with the details of the report and the proposed next steps. I am acutely conscious of the anticipation experienced by former residents and their families awaiting the publication of this report and I reassure Senators that there will be no undue delay in bringing the report forward for publication.

I have already been in direct contact with a considerable number of former residents by telephone and, in line with commitments already in place in this regard, my Department will make contact directly with former residents through existing communication channels to inform them of these matters before they are brought into the public domain. There is already a dedicated telephone information line available within my Department. Those details are available on the Department's website for people seeking further information on related matters. Once the publication is announced, these details will be widely advertised on various platforms to again inform key stakeholders of the details. There is also a telephone line already available for people seeking details of counselling support available to those affected by these issues. All of these numbers have been provided to former residents and their supporters and will be publicised on the websites of my Department and the HSE. My officials have liaised with the national counselling service to ensure that capacity is primed to respond to any increased demand for the service which may arise on foot of publication of the report, both during office hours and in respect of an out-of-hours service.

I want to be as clear as possible on the matter of records. The archive of the commission of investigation is still in the commission's possession. The Government's intention is to publish the commission's report as soon as possible. As such, the archive will not be transferred to my Department prior to the publication of the report. This means that I will not be able to provide copies of personal data to survivors in advance of receiving the archive. The archive will be transferred to my Department by 28 February next, as provided for in the legislation. Thereafter, my Department will be able to process subject access requests from people who want access to their records. My Department is working intensively to ensure that it is properly resourced to handle subject access requests and can provide people with as much personal data as possible.

I cannot make an absolute commitment that the Department will be able to provide unredacted records in all cases. As we discussed during the debates, the right to personal data under Article 15 of the general data protection regulation, GDPR, is not absolute. Release of personal data must not adversely affect the rights and freedoms of others, and this test must always be applied when considering whether to release personal data. It is a legal requirement to apply this test in each case and in some circumstances, this is likely to mean that certain records may be redacted or partly redacted.

In all my engagements on the commission's records, I have always been clear that applying GDPR will not resolve all issues around access to information. This issue underlines the importance of enacting robust information and tracing legislation. I have given a commitment in this regard to bring forward fresh proposals on information and tracing next year. The intention is that the legislation will support individuals to access more information than is currently accessible to them under GDPR or the Freedom of Information Act. I am committed to this legislation to ensure that we can provide people with the identity information they need, with the necessary wraparound supports for all involved. I will meet with my officials about the specific legislation later today and look forward to working with all Senators in advancing the legislation.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The two Senators have a minute between them to respond.

Mary Fitzpatrick (Fianna Fail)
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I will be brief if I only have 30 seconds. I thank the Minister for his reply. It is welcome that the free phone telephone numbers are there and that supports are being put in place. I am going to move briefly to the final part of the Minister's statement which related to the information and tracing legislation. He flagged that when he came before the committee in October. It is a priority for the Government and I hope it is legislation that will be progressed in the first half of next year, if at all possible. I appreciate that I did not flag this in advance but if the Minister and his colleagues in government could raise the issue of the archive and Sean McDermott Street, it would be a welcome development in terms of the general issue - not so much for the individual survivors but for history's sake and the State's reparation.

Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. It is reassuring that there will be adequate supports and that he has ensured that the counselling services have upped their capacities. I reiterate the care and consideration that is needed. These women have been through horrendous abuse. Their children have been torn from them and their lives were changed forever. The Minister must remember that when he takes any action.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I absolutely agree. I acknowledged during the debates on the database legislation that I had not done enough to engage with survivors. Since then, I have had approximately 40 calls with survivors, individuals and representative groups, which has given me a much greater perspective on the individual harm that was initially done in the mother and baby homes and how the treatment by the State over the years has magnified that harm. I am conscious of those issues and the need to bring forward legislation. It is an absolute priority for me and my officials and I are meeting about it today. I will be engaging in the first place with the Attorney General to talk about the specifics of the legislation and the need to have it focused on GDPR. That will be the linchpin for this piece of legislation and hopefully it will avoid some of the constitutional difficulties on which we touched during previous debates that have blocked progress on this matter.

I will, at all times, be working with Senators and Deputies because we all know that we need to get this right. I am very much looking forward to working with everybody to get a resolution for the women and children who were in these institutions.