Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, for coming to the House. I am a bit disappointed that the Minister for Education and Skills is not here but I understand he is busy. I have a very serious issue to raise this morning which relates to my home town of Carlow. Two nights ago I met with very concerned subcontractors in Carlow who had worked on the construction of Tyndall College and the college of further education on the outskirts of Carlow town. Some subcontractors were there also from some of the six other schools that were built by the same group.

I remember the day the sod was turned on this multi-million euro investment in the Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board, Carlow campus. It was a great day for local jobs and the local economy. This investment promised a much needed new post-primary school for 1,000 students and a new 1,000 place facility for the Carlow Institute of Further Education and Training on the Kilkenny Road, with a shared sports hall and accompanying fitness room at a cost of around €30 million. They revealed an exciting target date for completion of September 2017, but in May 2018 there is no school and good workers are down in pay and out of a job. Because Sammon went into examinership the business cannot continue trading and the High Court protection of creditors means debts cannot be enforced before the appointment of an examiner. The contractors are small businesses, many of whom are family businesses, with entire families depending on their wages. They cannot absorb the losses.

I have previously been in contact with the Minister on the issue but I was not happy with his response to my parliamentary question. When Carillion collapsed earlier this year the company it hired in Ireland, namely, Sammon, went into examinership and the contractors were not paid. They deserve good pay for good work. They worked hard and they should not have lost out. The Minister for Education and Skills told me that Sammon was paid what was due under its contract. He also told me that the payment of the subcontractors is a matter for themselves and that he could not intervene. Why should they be out of pocket for the work that was done in good faith?

I wish to ask the Minister questions on behalf of the contractors. How much time remains in the examinership period for the Sammon Group? Currently, the process protects Sammon from having to pay what is due to the contractors. The contractors have also asked me to find out exactly how much has been paid to the Sammon Group by Carillion for each school, and specifically, Tyndall College in Carlow, which is in my area. Schools all around the country are idle and unfinished. Parents and students wonder if they will ever see the doors of those fabulous facilities open. The students, staff, parents and management deserve answers. They deserve the schools they were promised.

What is the status of Tyndall College and the college of further education and training? I understand a tender went out. If it is processed will the contractors lose out? They were promised pay and work and now they have neither. The contractors are in an awkward position. They did the work, they got their certification but they did not get paid, yet Revenue seeks to be paid and they have no money to pay it. Could the Minister intervene? A special fund should be provided to pay contractors. I am very annoyed that this situation has been allowed to drag on for months.There are subcontractors out there who need to pay bills. They have families, they have mortgages and they have not been paid. A subcontractor or contractor who has to apply for a C2 certificate has to pay Revenue and cannot tender for other projects without that certificate. The schools are built on lands owned by the State, which is paid for out of taxpayers' money. The Minister has a duty to ensure that these subcontractors get paid. Will the Minister meet with the subcontractors? When a major contractor does not pay its subcontractors, there should be legislation barring it from tendering for further projects. I am very disappointed to be standing here while many subcontractors I know - and whose families I know - are not being paid, which is very upsetting for them.

Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this matter. Unfortunately, the Minister for Education and Skills is unavailable this morning and he has asked me to respond on his behalf. I welcome the opportunity to inform the Seanad of the current position regarding the examinership of Sammon and with respect to payments under the schools bundle 5 public private partnership, PPP, contract.

As the Senator will be aware, examinership is a process in Irish law whereby the protection of the court is obtained to assist in the survival of a company. The Sammon Group petitioned the High Court on 5 April last to enter into examinership. The application was successful. The matter came before the High Court again on 16 April last and an examiner was appointed for an initial period of 35 days. The examiner will next be before the High Court on 8 May when he can request an extension of up to 70 days if he still believes there is a realistic chance that a restructuring of the Sammon Group can occur. This is the up-to-date position with the examinership as the Department of Education and Skills understands it.

The Senator will be aware that the schools bundle 5 PPP project encompasses five school buildings and one further education college across four sites in Bray, Wexford, Kells and Carlow. The programme will provide for two new education facilities in Carlow: Tyndall College will obtain a 1,000 pupil new post-primary building and Carlow Institute of Further Education will be provided with a new further education college building providing capacity for up to 1,000 students. The buildings are being provided under a PPP contract between the Department of Education and Skills and the company Inspiredspaces. Under this contract, Inspiredspaces is responsible for the design, build, finance and maintenance of the buildings in exchange for which it will receive a monthly unitary charge payment from the Department once the buildings are operational. The National Development Finance Agency, NDFA, which is part of the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, led the procurement of the project on behalf of the Department and is monitoring the delivery phase.

On the private side of the PPP arrangement, Inspiredspaces had a construction works contract with Carillion Construction Limited. Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited was, in turn, subcontracted by Carillion Construction Limited to carry out the building work. Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited then entered into further subcontracts with various contractors and suppliers. Carillion Construction Limited went into liquidation in January. As a consequence of this, the construction works contract relating to the PPP project is being retendered. The tender process in this respect is being undertaken by the Dutch Infrastructure Fund, DIF, on behalf of Inspiredspaces and this is ongoing. It is important to note that Inspiredspaces is not in liquidation. DIF is a shareholder in Inspiredspaces and represents it in that context.

I will now deal with the specific question in respect of payments to Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited. Under the PPP structure, responsibility for payments to Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited lay with Carillion Construction Limited. In its progress report to the NDFA at the end of December 2017, Inspiredspaces provided confirmation from Carillion Construction Limited that Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited had been paid in full in accordance with their subcontract to that point and that there were no issues arising. The amount due and paid to that point was €85.3 million, out of a total contract sum of €87 million. As all six buildings are being delivered under one PPP contract, the Department does not have visibility on how much specifically was paid by Carillion Construction Limited to Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited in respect of works at Tyndall College, Carlow. The Department of Education and Skills will only commence unitary charge payments to Inspiredspaces once the school buildings are operational. The only payment made to Inspiredspaces to date is €4.4 million, primarily for off-site works that were completed in accordance with the project agreement.

Ultimately, the Department of Education and Skills is not party to the construction or other subcontracts relating to the schools bundle 5 PPP project and does not have any authority to intervene in same. The Department will continue to liaise closely with the NDFA regarding the completion works for the schools bundle 5 PPP project, which is our priority. In that regard, officials from the Department are keeping management representatives of relevant schools informed of developments. School principals and chairs of boards of management have also attended a number of meetings with the Department and NDFA officials at which they have been fully briefed on developments. DIF has targeted, and is working towards, the delivery of all school buildings by the coming school year.

I will return to some of the issues the Senator raised after she has spoken.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I will allow a brief supplementary.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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Having heard the Minister of State's reply, I am not better off than I was in the aftermath of having a parliamentary question on the matter tabled to the Minister for Education and Skills on my behalf. It is good to know that the responsibility for payment to Sammon Contracting Ireland Limited lay with Carillion Construction Limited but the subcontractors are seeking a meeting with the NDFA and we will be working on that. When people have done work and are awaiting payments that will protect their livelihoods and those of their families and that enable them to pay their mortgages but where no one is accountable, it is a very serious matter. They do the work and obtain their certificates but they do not get paid. That does not make sense and it does not matter who has to intervene. There has to be accountability regarding the subcontractors who have done their work and who need their money in order to survive. Putting the blame on one party or another is not good enough. The Minister of State mentioned DIF, the NDFA, etc., but what about the students waiting to go into the schools? I am not happy with the answer and I will not let this go. I will seek to meet with the Minister again.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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There is a legal process involved.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I know that.

Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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I understand the Senator's concerns about this.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The response suggests that there will be further court cases.

Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have dealt with issues relating to subcontractors in my own role. A chain of command needs to be put in place. In light of the concerns raised by the Senator, however, I will bring this back to the Minister. He is really sorry that he cannot be here today but I will make sure that a response is given to the Senator in person.