Seanad debates

Thursday, 19 April 2018

10:30 am

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for taking this debate. The issue is about St. Thomas's special school in Clonshaugh. It is a small school, with a small enrolment, and a school that nobody really believes has a future, although that is not the issue at question here. It is a school where, through circumstance, all the pupils enrolled are Traveller boys. A decision was reached recently and communicated to the patron of the school that it is to close with immediate effect in June, not to be phased out over a number of years.

I do not believe in segregated education and do not think many people do. I do not believe boys should be separated from girls. I do not believe children of different religions should be separated from each other in schools. I do not believe children from families with financial advantage should be separated from children from families without that financial advantage and I certainly do not believe that Travellers should be educated separately from other children. However, there is a way of changing that.

If this school is to close, and the principal, the staff and the school community appreciate the need for that to happen, then it should be done in a compassionate manner. There is a handful of young men in the senior cycle of the school, or approaching the senior cycle, who would be severely affected by this closure. I do not know if the Minister of State can remember when he was 16 but I remember when I was 16. If we had been told we had to leave the school we were in to go to another school, it would have been pretty difficult for us to do that, and we are not members of a much-discriminated against minority. We are also not members of a minority that has a tradition of having difficulty in progressing in mainstream, formal education.

The issue here is that there are a number of young men who do not really see themselves staying in education if this rug is pulled from under them. The issue in St. Thomas's is not that the school should not close; I think everybody believes it should close. The issue is that it should be done with compassion and understanding for the young men who it will affect most profoundly, namely, the young men in fifth year and in third year. I could understand if the school was told not to take any more students in September. I could also understand if the Department said it would do this over the course of a year or two years, particularly for those young men who will face the leaving certificate next year. Despite the best will in the world, what will happen as a result of this situation is that young men who were going to do their leaving certificate in a year or two years will now not do it. Understanding that the school has to close, what I need to know from the Minister of State is that it can be done over two years to allow these young men to continue in their education in St. Thomas's and to allow a calm and compassionate transition for other students to other educational facilities.

We are not asking for the world. We are not asking to reverse the decision. We are just asking that the decision be phased, rather than immediate. For a school to be told in April that it is to close in June is, I would contest, very unusual. I do not think a school of a different character would get a message in April that it is closing in June for good. That is the message from the school community. These are vulnerable young people, they are in mainstream education and they are doing their best. I would ask that the Department would give them that small bit of leeway, not to close the doors of the school overnight, but to do it over a more prolonged period.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am taking this debate on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton. I wish to apologise on his behalf that he cannot be present due to a prior commitment to visit two schools with An Taoiseach. I will make sure to convey to him the matters raised in this debate. He is very familiar with this situation but I understand the importance of raising it today and he understands that too. He just could not make it and I think Senator Ó Ríordáin understands that.

Education provision on an inclusive basis is a fundamental principle of our education and training system. Ensuring every child is supported and given the opportunity to reach his or her full potential is a key priority for this Government and the Department of Education and Skills is committed to improving educational outcomes for members of the Traveller and Roma communities. As Senator Ó Ríordáin will be aware, St. Thomas’s is a school with special school designation dating from a period when separate education provision for members of the Traveller community was the norm. The phasing out of segregated education provision for Traveller children began in 2006 in accordance with Government policy which was developed in consultation with Traveller representative groups. Senator Ó Ríordáin acknowledged that was the right decision to make.

St. Thomas’s is currently the only remaining education centre in the country catering for Traveller boys. Segregating Traveller children from mainstream children is not positive for Traveller children, the Traveller community or for society. The agreed process for the phasing out of Traveller only provision was that new enrolments to such provision would cease in September 2008 and closure would be achieved when the current pupil cohort had left the school in question. This did not happen in the case of St. Thomas’s and I accept what the Senator said that this debate is about phasing it out. That process started and was agreed back in 2008.

Officials of the Department of Education and Skills have been engaging with the patron of the school for many years to progress the transfer of its student cohort to the mainstream school system in line with agreed national policy.It is important to note that, as with all schools under private patronage, the decision relating to school closure, amalgamation etc. rests with the patron. As a result of the most recent engagement during the current school year, the Department has come to the view that the arrangements for and delivery of education provision at the school are no longer appropriate to meet the educational needs of the current student cohort. This view has been communicated to the patron of the school together with a proposal that relevant supports for the current enrolment would transfer to the mainstream school system.

In order to ensure a smooth and effective transition of provision for students, officials of the Department are engaging with the school patron and the educational welfare services of Tusla with regard to future education provision for the current student cohort in St. Thomas's school. Tusla's educational welfare services are available to work with parents to source school places for the current pupil cohort, including three students at leaving certificate level who would be due to sit exams in 2019. The Department of Education and Skills will continue to engage with both the patron and the educational welfare services of Tulsa regarding arrangements for the future education provision for the pupil cohort.

The Senator may wish to note that current overall policy on Traveller education is being progressed within the framework of National Traveller and Roma Inclusion Strategy 2017-2021. The strategy has a particular emphasis on improving Traveller engagement with education and the Department of Education and Skills is currently working with relevant Departments and agencies and Traveller representative groups to implement relevant actions aimed at improving education outcomes for all Travellers, including the current student cohort of St Thomas's school. I hope this brings some clarity to the matter. Maybe the Senator might take it on board.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I listened to the Minister of State's reply. I appreciate that the intention of the Department is to promote integration. I believe in that and look forward to the day when we have more Travellers in the teaching profession and as role models in the educational sphere. My fear is that in years to come, there will be three, four, five or six young men who will point to the closure of the school as the reason they do not have a leaving certificate. Tusla and the Department will do their best to help these students transition to another mainstream setting but my fear is that for the want of a bit of leeway - a year or two - in allowing the students to stay in their current setting, the educational system could lose them completely. I again ask the Minister of State to pass on my concerns to the Minister and the Department about these young men, the danger presented by the immediate closure of the school and the message that sends to them. Nobody is arguing - I certainly do not - that Traveller-only schools or educational settings are the way to go. They are not. They are not healthy or progressive but I suggest that phasing in this closure is in the best interests of those young men, which must surely be our collective goal.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Again, I understand the issue raised by the Senator, namely, phasing and dealing with it appropriately but I must point out that the phasing arrangement began in 2008, which is nearly ten years ago. It was agreed national policy. A lot of time has been given to this school. Part of the difficulty was that in 2015, St. Thomas's school expanded its provision to cater for leaving certificate students without prior notification to, consultation with or approval of the Department. As the school made a formal request to the Department in April 2017 for additional teaching resources to support this unapproved provision, there is a bit of history here. All involved with the Department and the agencies have been trying to manage this to ensure the best educational outcome for the students in recognition of national policy, which has been phased in over nearly a ten-year period. A decision was made 12 years ago so a lot of time has been given here. A decision was made that it might not be the best outcome for the three students to continue in the leaving certificate year and do their examinations in 2019 in that school setting. That has been communicated and there is ongoing discussion but there has been a genuine effort by the Department, together with Tusla and all the services, to make sure the best outcomes for those students are achieved and to make sure they are given appropriate provision. The Senator needs to look at what has happened over the past year when he talks about phasing. I think he is being a little unfair to suggest there has been no proper phasing or that it has not been approached sensitively. I think it has been approached sensitively and it is now a matter of making the final decision that is best for the students. The Department will do this in conjunction with all the local services.