Seanad debates

Tuesday, 16 May 2017

Commencement Matters

Fire Safety Regulations

2:30 pm

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to the House to discuss an important concern which he shares with me. Many public representatives are concerned we are living in a city full of what are in effect tinder boxes and that fire regulations need to be strengthened or reflected upon. The fire safety of buildings constructed in the past 20 years is raising much concern for residents and their representatives.

There is a particular difficulty in that when questions are raised about the fire safety of houses or an apartment block in an individual estate, there is a reluctance among residents to use the normal engagement process with their public representatives, with councils or with the media because they are terrified the value of their properties will collapse. They are stuck in a bind of wanting to do something about the fire safety concerns around the places in which they live. They are also worried that the obvious resolution mechanisms they would normally go through are closed off from them because they do not want hurt the value of their properties. This is completely understandable.

We are coming to the conclusion that we need a dedicated agency where people can make confidential reports about fire safety concerns. In turn, these can be dealt with on a confidential basis to bypass this issue about the value of properties being undermined. In many of these cases, the issues can be rectified without any reputational damage to the properties in question as well as the significant investment people have made in them. The last thing we need is where people make a determination about the value of their property versus the value of their lives and those of their families, taking a risk their home will never go on fire. We cannot have them deciding that, because the mortgage on the property is so huge and debilitating to their quality of life, they take a risk on the property’s fire safety.

This is an issue that has been going during the lifetime of for several Governments. The former Minister with responsibility for the environment commissioned a report after five houses in the Millfield Manor estate in Newbridge, County Kildare, were completely destroyed by fire in less than half an hour.I understand that this report has been completed and that the current Minister is in possession of it. I am anxious to know what the report contains.

This matter relates to the overall general standard of fire safety throughout the country. Fire safety is the responsibility of the local authorities, but the level of resources varies from council to council. The responses of councils also vary. It is the responsibility of the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government to oversee this issue and ensure that there is a mechanism in place whereby people can raise their concerns and by means of which we can conduct an effective audit of all construction carried out in the past 20 years, when regulations were not as tightly controlled in respect of dwellings where people's lives are at risk. We all know of individual apartment blocks in our localities and constituencies that are fire hazards. The risks exist but the residents are terrified of raising concerns about them lest the value of their properties collapses.

I appreciate the Leas-Chathaoirleach's patience in allowing me to put my point of view. This is a serious issue and I know the Minister of State will appreciate that. I look forward to his response.

Photo of Eoghan MurphyEoghan Murphy (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this. As he has outlined, it is a serious issue.

The Building Control Acts 1990 to 2014 set out a clear statutory framework for construction activity. The 1990 Act provides for the making of building regulations and building control regulations to protect the health, safety and welfare of people in and around buildings. The Second Schedule of the Building Regulations 1997, as amended, sets out the statutory minimum performance requirements for the construction of new buildings. In particular, Part B of the Building Regulations 1997, as amended, sets out the legal requirements relating to fire safety in respect of new buildings and in respect of existing buildings undergoing works involving an extension, material alteration or a material change of use. The requirements under Part B represent the national statutory minimum standards of fire safety provision applicable to the construction of new buildings, including dwellings.

Under the Building Control Acts 1990 to 2014, primary responsibility for compliance with the requirements of the building regulations rests with the designers, builders and owners of buildings. Enforcement of the building regulations is a matter for the 31 local building control authorities, which have extensive powers of inspection and investigation under the Acts. Fire authorities have no powers of inspection in respect of dwelling houses occupied as single dwellings. The Fire Services Acts 1981 to 2003, however, apply to premises providing sleeping accommodation, that is, apartments. Furthermore, section 18(2) of the Fire Services Act places the responsibility for fire safety on the person or persons having control over the premises, which in the case of an apartment block includes the owners and management companies. This is appropriate in a situation where there are some 2 million housing units in the State.

In response to building failures that have emerged over the past decade, the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government introduced the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2014, which provide for greater accountability regarding compliance with building regulations, in the form of statutory certification of design and construction by registered construction professionals and builders, lodgement of compliance documentation, mandatory inspections during construction and validation and registration of certificates. The Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2014 were reviewed following their first 12 months in operation and it is clear from this review that the reforms have brought a new order and discipline to bear on construction projects. To complement these reforms, work is at an advanced stage in the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government on the general scheme of a Bill to place the Construction Industry Register Ireland, CIRI, on a statutory footing and to provide in law for the registration of builders. This is seen as an essential consumer protection measure giving consumers who engage a registered builder the assurance that they are dealing with a competent and compliant operator.

One of the two proposals outlined by the Senator relates to a dedicated agency for making confidential reports. My understanding of what he suggested is that this agency would also conduct an audit of buildings constructed in the past 20 years. Perhaps he will clarify that. As regards the report in the Department, I have not had an opportunity to speak to the Minister about it but I will ask him about the status of the report and when and how it will be made public.

Photo of Aodhán Ó RíordáinAodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I have with me a response to a parliamentary question tabled by Deputy Clare Daly on 22 June 2016. It is disappointing that the Minister of State's response is effectively a cut-and-paste job from that. In fact, I was flicking through it and I could read, word for word and sentence for sentence, the reply given by the Department to the Minister of State to be read in the Seanad today. It is exactly the same as the reply in June 2016, almost one year ago. Without any disrespect to the Minister of State, it appears that the Department has not moved on very much in a year, particularly in view of the fact that it has provided - word for word - the same response. What we are discussing here is lives that are at risk in apartment blocks and estates across the city and the country. We are also discussing the capacity of individuals or groups of individuals, residents associations or public representatives to make representations to the Government about the nature of the risk that exists.We need a confidential facility for any person or group of individuals to make a complaint about a concern they have, which they will not make lightly. It is not a light thing for anyone to say they think there is a fire safety issue in his or her block of apartments or in his or her estate. The person would make this confidential request to the Department which would then conduct an audit. However, a more robust audit has to be carried out nationally and must not be dependent on councils. Either that or we must demand that councils conduct these audits because otherwise cases will continue to arise throughout the country. It will take until the fire actually happens because although residents are concerned by fire safety, they are restricted by their concern for the value of their properties and worry over reputational damage. I am not trying to have a political go on the response given to me. I understand what happens here, that cut-and-paste jobs are done all the time for ministerial responses, but we cannot wait for another estate or apartment block to go on fire. A proactive response is needed. The councils are not doing it and we must ensure they do it and that have a confidential information line that groups and residents can use to have their fire safety complaints rectified.

Photo of Eoghan MurphyEoghan Murphy (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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It must be very disappointing if the response is similar to the one received by a colleague a year ago. I do not think that it is an indication that no work or progress has been done in this area in that time but nevertheless I will raise it with the Department, following the Senator's contribution. He is correct that people should not take the unacceptable risk of not reporting concerns they have regarding the conditions in their building because they are worried about it having an impact on the value of the property. We have to find a way of making sure that people are comfortable reporting risks and making sure they are dealt with adequately and in an appropriate timeframe, because that is essential. Before looking at the idea of setting up a new agency or body, which might be warranted, it requires further study and examination. Let us look at the report which the Minister has already. Let us see what that says, publish it and go from there.