Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I very much appreciate the Minister being here in person to address this issue. He will be well aware of the geographical area related to this issue as it is in his constituency. I was involved in a campaign to establish an Educate Together school in the Drumcondra area, and one of first actions the Minister took on taking office was to sanction the approval of that Educate Together primary school in Dublin 3 in the Marino-Drumcondra area. The campaign to establish that school was elongated and it took a long time to get it off the ground but it was successful. There are some long-established Educate Together schools in the more northern end of the constituency, which the Minister knows very well, in an area where a major degree of construction is taking place and where there has been major growth in the population. The people in that area will need a number of facilities, including school facilities.

In terms of Educate Together schooling, in line with the vision of the previous Government and, I hope, with that of the Minister, he will be familiar with the Educate Together schools in Kilbarrack and in Belmayne. We are asking that there would be a logical continuum of that ethos of education for the children who attend those schools. There has been a metamorphosis in the ethos of one second level school, Clonturk community college, into a new type of school with joint patronage. What we hope to achieve in Dublin 13, which covers a number of areas, including Clongriffin, Belmayne, Donaghmede, Baldoyle and Sutton, is that a new Educate Together would be established to facilitate those children, living in the area of rapid population, who attend an Educate Together school to have a continuum of that ethos of education, which is available to every other schoolchild attending other schools in the area. No other children in that area attending another school is asked to change the ethos of his or her schooling when he or she moves from primary to second level. If a child attends a Gaelscoil, there is facility for him or her to attend a second level Gaelscoil. If a child attends a Catholic ethos school, he or she can continue that ethos at second level. That is not available to children who attend an Educate Together primary school.

While it is appreciated that the Department of Education and Skills has made great strides in recent years in increasing the number of Educate Together schools that are available for parents who want that ethos for their children's education, it does not make any sense for that to stop once a child reaches sixth class. While the growth in this type of education is greatly appreciated, the parents and members of the committee involved, some of whom are in the Public Gallery, want to know what process they can pursue and how they can work with Government and the Department to make this a reality. This campaign does not necessarily need to be fractious or full of tension or friction. We want to achieve the establishment of an educational institution that the children can have to continue their education in the ethos chosen - as is a constitutional right - by their parents. I ask the Minister to outline where those involved in the campaign are to go next. These children attend an Educate Together school at primary level, or some of them do not. They live in an area that is under major development. They need a process whereby they can work with the Minister and his Department to arrive at a stage where they will be able to have a new education facility available to them. Nobody can convince me, and I am sure the Minister would agree with me, that this area will not need extra school places in the years to come. What we want is fair play. There have been moves across the city and the country with respect to the opening up of second level education. Often it is easier to open up a primary school rather than a second level school, but in areas of north County Dublin there are various different models, including community school models. I am mindful of the Malahide area where the Educate Together model has been approved by the Department because it is seen as providing a continuum of education which is necessary for the children concerned.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I must ask the Senator to conclude.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I respectfully ask the Minister for a positive response to this issue.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I fully understand and support the ambition he has set out. As he knows, it is my ambition to increase substantially the diversity of offerings both at primary and at secondary level to reflect the growing preference of parents for more diversity in our education system.Earlier this year I indicated that nine new schools are to be provided at post-primary level and eight of the nine are multidenominational in ethos and four of them are Educate Together schools. We are very keen to promote diversity.

I must outline to the Senator the way in which decisions are made when new schools are decided upon. Perhaps he already knows. First, it has to be based on an assessment of the population pressure in an area. We use the geographical information systems, GIS, census data, Ordnance Survey information, Department of Social Protection numbers in terms of children and all the Department's databases to accurately project the pressure of demand across 314 planning areas that are set out by the Department. In terms of the exact area, namely, the Donaghmede and Howth, Dublin 13 area, as of today there is not sufficient population pressure to indicate that a new school would be warranted but it is an area where my Department is closely monitoring trends. As the Senator rightly said, it is an area of growth.

An indication of what we are doing is that in the adjoining area, namely, the Malahide and Portmarnock area, we recently approved a 1,000-student post-primary school for Educate Together as the population pressure warranted it. I am sure the Senator will ask why we do not provide more diversity straight away. The difficulty I face, which I am sure he will appreciate, is that with the population bulge that is occurring, I have to provide 20,000 additional places just to keep pace with population trends. That puts me under very severe pressure and I can only provide funds for additional places where the planning area does not have vacancies in other existing schools.

The approach that is then taken where it is identified that a school is warranted is predominantly based on parental preference. It is an independent process. Parents are asked to express their preference as to the patronage of the new school and it is done on the basis of an assessment of the number of parents indicating a preference for different schools. It is done independently of the Minister by an independent group, which has been set up to carry out the evaluation. That is the process. I am committed to greater diversity. I recognise the value of Educate Together and the education and training boards, ETBs. The Senator rightly pointed to the interesting innovation in Clonturk where an ETB school took in Educate Together as a joint partner. That is an interesting approach. We are determined to pursue greater diversity but we must work within the constraints of the existing budget planning process. We made provision recently for an Educate Together school in an adjoining area and we will closely track population numbers in the Donaghmede and Howth, Dublin 13, area.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his response. The Minister is very familiar with the area. It does not take too much effort to appreciate that population pressure is only a number of years away given the incredible intensity of building work and apartment building in the area. Could the Minister at least commit that he or Department officials will work with the campaigning group, which is open to all sorts of options, including a similar type of arrangement to that in Clonturk in order to facilitate children to have a continuum of education? I do not think the Malahide and Portmarnock option will fly when one has such a large geographical area that is in need of this facility and considering that the vast majority of those places will be taken up by people living in the area. I say that with the greatest respect to the Minister. I appreciate him being here in person and his comprehensive reply. I also appreciate the constraints under which he is operating as Minister.Could the Minister give a commitment that his officials will sit down with the campaigning group and outline how best this campaign can proceed, what type of information it needs, what type of population figures will help the case and give realistic projections of what the population growth will be? As the Minister knows, it is only a matter of time until-----

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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Thank you, Senator. I think you have made your point.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour)
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-----campaign for second level schools to facilitate the population numbers.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Senator is out of time. I call the Minister.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I can assure the Senator that my Department and I work with all patrons. We support Educate Together in its work as a patron, which is certainly recognised. Obviously, the Department cannot favour one particular group that is campaigning for a school because the process under which a school patron is selected is based on parental preferences. Everyone has to have an equal opportunity of competing when a school is identified as needing. The Department does not anoint one patron or another. It is based on parental preference and the need to promote diversity. We do not assume one patron versus another.

There are eight schools currently at second level across the area. They are educating about 3,852 pupils. There is capacity at present but, as I say, we work very closely with the local authorities and have a code of practice with the planning authorities. We get information about the plans. They look at prospective sites when they are planning areas. We seek to work very closely with local authorities in order that the plans for the development of an area are synched with our own. At a time of such pressure on places, we have to see an established need for additional places at second level before we can consider such a process. We are very open to any patron. We are encouraging patrons, but at the end of the day it is parental preference that will decide it when we do identify that a new school is justified. I cannot favour one over another.