Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, to the House.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State. My question concerns the public perception of the fair deal scheme, which was set up in 2009. The structure was that people would pay 80% of their pension or income and 5% of their assets for a maximum of three years. That was subsequently raised to 7.5% of assets. The scheme has been operating for over seven years and this year will cost around €970 million. I welcome the allocation in the past two or three weeks of an additional €42 million. We intend to publish a paper on the review of the scheme but the perception is that the State is taking back quite a lot of funds from estates and it is important that the correct figures are available.

I also have a concern, which is not directly in the Minister of State's remit, that there is a perception that the three year cut-off point does not apply to people from the business and farming communities who end up in a nursing home under the fair deal scheme. One family I know is paying over €2,500 a month for the support of the mother in a nursing home and there is no end to that because of the valuation of her assets. My understanding is that she has MS, an illness that will not change and will probably deteriorate in the coming years. While there are some issues concerning the fair deal scheme, it is important that the public has the correct information.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Burke for raising this matter.

The nursing homes support scheme is a generous scheme which relieves families of potentially very onerous expense and even protects the greater part of the value of a participant's main residence. However, it is also expensive. The amount allocated to the scheme in 2015 is €993 million, which is an increase of €44 million on 2014.

Under the scheme, nursing home residents contribute towards the cost of their nursing home care based on their means and the HSE pays the balance. Where an applicant's assets include land and property in the State, the 7.5% contribution based on such assets may be deferred. This is an optional loan element of the scheme which can assist an applicant with the cost of their care. The purpose underpinning the loan is to ensure than an applicant does not have to sell their house during their lifetime. The loan can be repaid at any time but will ultimately fall due for repayment upon the applicant's death.Under the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Act, the Revenue Commissioners are the appointed agents of the State for the collection of repayable moneys under the loan element of the scheme. Such moneys received by the Revenue must be paid into the Exchequer Central Fund. Since the scheme commenced in 2009, the HSE has notified the Revenue Commissioners of a total of 2,270 loans for repayment. The value of these loans amounts to €40.1 million and, as of the end of April 2015, a total of €23.8 million has been repaid.

The following arrangements apply to the collection of these amounts by the Revenue Commissioners. In the event of a death, the accountable person has 12 months to repay the loan after the date of death. Where the nursing home loan is repayable because of the sale or transfer of property, the person must repay the nursing home within six months of the date of the sale or transfer. Under the legislation, the repayment of the nursing home loan may be further deferred where certain conditions are met, for example, where the property is the principal residence of the surviving partner of the person who has died. The Senator will be aware that the nursing homes support scheme is currently the subject of a review.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for the information. Given that during the past four years we have paid approximately €3.8 billion in the fair deal scheme and that we are now discussing a refund of €23 million, it is less than 0.5% of the overall expenditure. Regarding the 80% of people's pension that is being collected, we have never received any information from the HSE about what it amounts to. The Minister of State corrected me and stated that €993 million has been allocated to the scheme for this year. The 80% levy on people's pensions probably adds up to another €200 million on top of this. However, we have never seen exact figures for the contribution. To be fair to the taxpayer and everyone involved in the scheme, it is important that all the correct figures are made public. I ask that this information be published at the same time as any review of the fair deal scheme is published.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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If the Senator will put those questions on paper, I will get the responses. If he wants this level of detail, I will ask the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar to provide the statistics.