Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I congratulate former Senator Deirdre Clune on her election to the European Parliament. I am glad that we have the motion in that regard before us today to formally mark her election.

I welcome the announcement made by the Government that it is taking up the issue of the burial of almost 800 babies from the mother and baby home in Tuam between 1925 and 1961. This is an issue that was raised first by Senator Hildegarde Naughton. A number of other Senators and I raised it yesterday on the Order of Business. I am glad that it is being taken up.

I ask the Leader to arrange a debate in due course on the issue of policing oversight. The Government will publish legislation on GSOC, while the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality is examining mechanisms for policing oversight. It will undertake a fact-finding exercise in Belfast, Edinburgh and Glasgow to look at the Northern Irish and Scottish policing oversight bodies and at how we can best reform and amend our legislation to ensure better oversight of policing here. I hope we will have a debate on the issue, not just on the legislation on GSOC, but also on the broader and more comprehensive review the joint committee is undertaking of Garda oversight mechanisms.

I welcome the comments and the news yesterday that the personal insolvency arrangements were being fast tracked. Under the Personal Insolvency Act 2012, we are seeing an innovative method used, whereby personal insolvency arrangements, PIAs, can be made for as short a period as three months. This clearly will aid distressed debtors. It has been described as a revolution in insolvency arrangements. Perhaps we might have a debate in due course on a review of the Act, how it is being implemented in practice and the innovative arrangements being made.

In regard to the Committee of Selection, I know the Leader will respond to Senator Darragh O'Brien on behalf of the Government.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand the talks to save Bausch & Lomb in Waterford are at a crucial stage. I welcome the interventions made by two of our stalwarts in the House, Senators Maurice Cummins and David Cullinane, and wish them every success.

I also welcome the news to be announced later of the appointment of Mr. Kevin O'Malley as ambassador of the United States to Ireland. This is something for which we have asked. Perhaps we might consider inviting the ambassador to visit the House in the future.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I echo Senator Bacik's approval that some personal insolvency arrangements, or PIAs, have been fast-tracked by agreement with some lenders. I highlight the plight of those who are borrowing from certain financial institutions which have made it abundantly clear that they do not intend to co-operate with the insolvency process and write down debt on family homes. I reiterate the objections I voiced previously to the effect that it is unacceptable that some financial institutions have made it clear that they will not co-operate with a body established statutorily to assist people in mortgage distress.

On that note, I raise concerns in relation to the financial ombudsman. It is perfectly clear from appearances before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and statements its representatives have made that the ombudsman's office views its remit very narrowly in terms of regulation of the code of conduct on mortgage arrears and any other issues relating to personal debt and mortgage insolvency. It is high time we reviewed the legislation underpinning the ombudsman. It is not acceptable to have an independent ombudsman's office which sees itself as having no remit other than to decide whether procedures have been followed to the letter of the law. It has no remit in relation to fairness and in particular as to whether any option offered by a bank is fair and sustainable. In the current environment where some banks are behaving more responsibly than others, it is not good enough to have a so-called independent ombudsman's office which considers that it has no remit whatsoever in this regard.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I note that the President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe is coming to the Seanad next week. I thought I might have been informed of the date as the one notified does not suit me. I am surprised I was not consulted about the date as I issued the invitation. People do have other commitments.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was agreed with our office.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In any event, I concur with Senator Darragh O'Brien, the Leader of the Opposition, and congratulate Senators Sean Barrett and Marc MacSharry, who are the nominees of Seanad Éireann to sit on the banking inquiry. The Committee of Selection last night made the decision in a democratic manner. The membership of the inquiry will be Deputy Ciarán Lynch, the Chairman and a member of the Labour Party, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, Deputy John Paul Phelan, Deputy Michael McGrath, Deputy Pearse Doherty, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, Senator Sean Barrett and Senator Marc MacSharry. It is a good inquiry and it has the credibility to go forward independently and examine the banking institutions. I have great confidence in it, knowing in particular the calibre of the two Members from this House. I will not speak to the calibre of the Members from the other House, who I am sure are of top quality.

I have known Senator Barrett since he entered the House and he has been exemplary in his work in every sphere of the Seanad's activity. He may have contributed more than anyone else in the House to its workings. He is a credit to the House. He was very successful in fighting a campaign for the retention of the Seanad. We owe him a great debt of gratitude in that regard.

I have known Senator Marc MacSharry for very long time. He is a man of the greatest integrity in public life and I have no doubt that he will play a very important role in the committee. I note the work he did in the House during the term of the last Government when he fought for cancer services in Sligo without fear or favour. He stood up and fought, irrespective of who was in government or what Minister was there and he will carry out his work in the banking inquiry in an exemplary manner.

Both Government and Opposition Members should be very fearful of any activity to disrupt the decision of the selection committee. If Members engage in such activity, the banking inquiry will have no credibility whatsoever and should be walked away from. If Members interfere with the decision of the selection committee, they will have to take the consequences of that action. The Government is slipping every day. It will slip further and the inquiry will never take place unless Senators Marc MacSharry and Sean Barrett are on it.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In recent days, the European Commission published country-specific recommendations for each member state's national reform and stability programme. It would be appropriate given that we have recently existed the bailout and will soon be into budget preparation, for the House to discuss the recommendations which have been made. They include implementation of current budgets, correcting the excessive deficit in 2015, reforming elements of the health care sector to increase cost-effectiveness and many other significant recommendations. While we are not unique in that every other member state has received recommendations, it would be an appropriate, worthwhile and meaningful debate to have before the summer recess to ensure we can all feed into the budgetary process for the Minister.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A couple of years ago, I raised the matter here of an Irish citizen who had been imprisoned without trial in Sri Lanka. Great efforts have been made to find a solution and the great news is that he arrived home this week to his wife and three children. He has been in prison for seven years and his 24 year old, 20 year old, and 16 year old daughters had not seen him in that time. It is a matter for great joy. I raise it to say that the work of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Irish ambassador in India has been very helpful. The family would wish that to be passed on. Hopefully, this will be the end of these matters.

There is a case to be made for having a Minister for pensions. The pensions crisis we are likely to experience in the future will eclipse the banking crisis of a few years ago yet we are not taking the steps we must. As the population grows, the number of young workers being replaced by retired older people will go from five to one to three to one. That will be an impossible situation. The Comptroller and Auditor General estimates that in a number of years time the cost to the State of public sector pensions alone will be €157 billion. This is a huge matter, yet we merely say of pensions "Oh yes, we must do something about that". The case should be made to appoint a Minister for pensions in the very next Cabinet reshuffle or on the formation of the next Government but very shortly in any event. That Minister would concentrate all of his or her efforts on the crisis that is facing us.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the appointment of the new US ambassador to Ireland. The post has been empty for approximately 18 months since Dan Rooney left it. It is a very welcome development. The relationship between Ireland and the USA is very important and the ambassadorial role is a key aspect of it.

Colleagues have referred to the banking inquiry. While I congratulate those who have been appointed to it, I am very disappointed that there is no woman among the nine members. I do not mean a woman should be appointed without regard to merit, but it shows that the wheels of power are slow to move, especially when it comes to gender balance. We talk of boards not having enough women on them. I do not often refer to women's issue and having more women on this that and the other, but it is disappointing that not one woman has been appointed among the nine. It is a damning indictment of politics today.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There was a very well known film called "Dead Man Walking". I get the sense that we have a dead man walking in the Cabinet having seen media reports on the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly. It appears the backbenchers in Fine Gael are finally coming to the conclusion we came to many months ago, which is that it is time for the Minister to go having regard to the number of debacles he has had on his watch. It is a shame it has taken so long for the backbenchers to find their voices.

We should not wait for a reshuffle for the decision on the Minister to be made. We see debacles continuing. I call on the Leader to ask the Minister to clarify his relationship with the chair of the west-north-west hospital group in light of the fact that the report on the review of maternity services in the area was commissioned from a company of which that person owns 50%.

The Minister needs to clarify his own relationship with the person in question.

At the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions yesterday, we considered the report of the Ombudsman, Mr. Peter Tyndall, on medical cards. He raised alarming issues arising from the centralisation of the medical card process. He said it appeared that when the system was centralised the files relating to how decisions on discretionary medical cards were made disappeared, or went to a place where they could not be found. He has investigated a number of complaints about this issue on which the reports or files are not available, and he seems to indicate that this is a result of the centralisation process. He also raised the issue of the delay in replacing the mobility and motorised transport grant schemes, which the Government is reviewing. The grants were rescinded because the Ombudsman had highlighted an issue, but now he is concerned that people who need those grants have nothing available, and that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. Will the Leader organise a debate on that issue? We also need to find out why the files on discretionary medical cards do not appear to have been centralised when the medical card system was centralised. It will be very difficult to review that system and to ensure that, if the Government is committed to returning medical cards to the people from whom they were taken, the decisions are based on proper information.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I too welcome the imminent appointment of the new American ambassador. I am sure the Cathaoirleach will be proud of his good strong connections with his own county.

We have seen the roll-out of an extensive advertising campaign by the national lottery to play the Lotto online. I think we are all agreed that it is important that we be fully aware of the consequences and implications of the online game formats. We must remember that some are vulnerable to ease of access to gambling opportunities. Earlier in the year, Senator O'Donnell raised concerns about this. The State has yet to appoint a national lottery regulator as required under the relevant Act. The new format of the games is being rushed out in advance of the appointment of a national lottery regulator. We as legislators need to be assured that the new operators of the national lottery do not operate without regard to the common good in an attempt to maximise the return on the substantial investment that has been made. I believe more attention must be paid to responsible gaming and not simply the return on investment. I have written to the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform requesting that representatives of the new operator be invited to appear before committee to outline their values, plans and priorities as we make the transition. This is a very urgent matter, given the rush to secure the maximum online penetration before a national lottery regulator is formally established. I am sure the Leader will agree with me on that point.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join with the sentiments being expressed this morning. I believe the selection of Senators MacSharry and Barrett to sit on the banking inquiry augurs very well for the operation of that committee. I do not have to outline their credentials, as we all know how accomplished and focused they are as members of the Oireachtas. I do not have any doubt that they will fulfil their mandate without fear or favour on behalf of the people.

Those who knocked on doors during the recent elections know full well the hurt, the anger and the sense of helplessness that is being experienced by the public. The idea of the banking inquiry has generated significant anticipation. It is therefore vital that the committee does its job, which is to act on behalf of the people of Ireland, including those who cannot pay their mortgages, those who have lost their jobs and those who have emigrated to the four corners of the earth, and for that reason it will be monitored and assessed very carefully. It is most important that it does not become a political quango. It should not be used for political point-scoring. Should that happen, it will lose credibility, and we cannot expect an outcome that will alleviate the suffering I have already mentioned. My hope is that if the committee starts on the right track, leaving party politics aside, and doing one of the most important jobs that will ever have been done in the State, then we can start looking forward in earnest. Although I accept that there have been improvements, we know that the people on the ground are disillusioned at this stage. The only way we can overcome the attitude of the people is by showing them strength of character, honesty, integrity, commitment and focus. It is good for this House that people of the calibre and character of Senators Sean D. Barrett and Marc MacSharry are the nominees of Seanad Éireann to sit on this committee. My hope is that there will be no misrepresentation. If that were to happen - and I do not expect that it will - not only will we have done harm to this House, but we will have done excessive harm to the will of the people. The people are waiting to see the Oireachtas Members doing a good job on their behalf and leaving politics to one side.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with Senator Ó Clochartaigh about the debacle over the review of medical cards and the taking of discretionary medical cards from people. It is amusing that people are standing up and listening to Ombudsman reporting on this, while in the past three years I have repeatedly highlighted the issue of files going missing between Clontarf and Finglas. It is time to review and revisit the operation of the PCRS. I never agreed with the centralisation of the medical card system. It is absolutely appalling that the HSE can now bring in a German company to review medical cards. It has acted cynically on these issues.

It makes me laugh to see the high moral ground that has been taken by Fianna Fáil on the review of medical cards and discretionary medical cards. Let me remind the Members opposite that when they were in Government - I was a county councillor between 2004 and 2009-----

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator was handing them out

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He was handing them out to all his constituents.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

May I speak?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator without interruption.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wrote on numerous occasions to the then Minister for Heath and Children, Mary Harney, and I asked that medical cards be made available to cancer patients. Repeatedly she refused, pointing out that there was very little discretion-----

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The person to whom you gave the discretionary medical card.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator without interruption

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and that one had to abide by the guidelines.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The previous speaker did not have a question for the Leader. Let me conclude with this point. My representations to the Minister were followed a year later by representations from her to me on behalf of a woman who had an underactive thyroid. She could not believe a medical card had not been made available as a matter of course because this person had an underactive thyroid.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bring the letters in here.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

But she was forgetting about the people who had cancer. These are the people we are talking about today. These people are suffering as their medical cards have been withdrawn-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bring the letters in here, because there have been a few Labour Party guys who claimed that things happened when they did not actually happen.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----but the Fianna Fáil Party did exactly the same thing when it was in Government.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Bring them in.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Crown.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry; did somebody call my name? There was a bit of a melee.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator has risen to speak so he must have heard something.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry to interrupt the latest edition of why we should have abolished the House but I would like to raise three issues, which are interrelated, although at first glance they may not appear to be. We all understand what is going on here. Senator Barrett is the only qualified person in either House to ask the appropriate questions of bankers and regulators at the banking inquiry and he may find himself removed from the committee holding the inquiry for reasons that have nothing to with his competence or the national interest and everything to do with party political interests and pique. I ask Members to look into their hearts for one glorious moment, pretend they are not in a party and look at the 4.6 million people in the country and what they have gone through as a result of the behaviour of the banks and decide who they think are the best people to have on the committee of inquiry and if Senator Barrett is one of them. That is the only question Members should ask.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He was selected unanimously.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Second, if he is removed, it will be in the crass realm of political stunts. We have witnessed several other examples in recent times. People who supported the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Gilmore, to go into a coalition with a conservative party then criticised and ousted him for having conservative policies at a time many conservative parties could have gone into opposition if they had not had a disagreement 90 years ago.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Has the Senator a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The same is happening with respect to the Minister for Health. Everybody knew when he took up office, he had been dealt the worst set of economic cards possible by the outgoing Administration and at a time he was under the thumb of international financial spigot turners who made sure no money was available for anything, he had his own Cabinet colleagues beating him to death to cut back and everyone knew he would cut back. I do not agree with the cutbacks. Everything was done wrong. All these problems began the night the two main parties supported the bank guarantee. That is the reality he found himself in with a legacy problem-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Leader pass on my best wishes to the Minister? He is the only one of the past four Ministers for Health who attempted to reform the system. He has made a few awful blunders during his tenure but it is incredibly unfair that he is being held responsible for what is essentially a party political problem.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join others in congratulating our former colleague, Deirdre Clune, on her election to the European Parliament.

I welcome the announcement of Mr. Kevin O'Malley as the new American ambassador to Ireland. I look forward to him visiting the House in the near future.

We hear a great deal of negative news but I welcome the news relating to counties Sligo and Leitrim over the past week. Last Friday morning, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation visited Carrick-on-Shannon in County Leitrim to announce the creation of 125 new jobs, which is welcome in an area from which many people have emigrated. This will give them an opportunity to return to work in their native country. Last Tuesday, the Taoiseach announced the creation of 175 jobs in Sligo, which I also welcome.

Paul Bradford (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a technical matter, will the Leader consider an amendment to the Order of Business to allow the taking of No. 16 before No. 1?

I refer to the mini-debate on the Committee of Selection. No. 5 is a motion on the report of the committee. There is no requirement for such a motion to come before the House because Standing Orders are prescriptive and we cannot rewrite history. As a member of the committee, I had to make a decision, as did all committee members, and we did so last night arising from a motion passed in the House some weeks ago, which said a select committee carrying out a banking inquiry should include two members nominated in accordance with Standing Order 89. That was in black and white. There was no shade of grey and it was prescriptive. The motion was passed. Seanad Éireann instructed the selection committee by a overwhelming vote of Members not to consider, submit or present two names but to nominate two Members to sit on the banking inquiry under Standing Order 89.

We need to be cautious about what we do because the Standing Order - we all fought to preserve the House last year on the basis that it is independent, not a creature of Government and stands on its own two feet - does not suggest but simply prescribes that there should be a Committee of Selection and that it shall nominate the Senators to serve on particular committees. That is the job of work which we were asked to do last night and which we completed. Some people are disappointed with the outcome but the Standing Order is clear.

It is disturbing to hear on the media and coming from certain sources concerns that the Government would not have a majority on the committee. If the committee is formulated arising from divisions in the Dáil and the Seanad, there would be members of Fianna Fáil, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Labour Party and the Independents on it. The purpose of the select committee should not be that one side or the other has a majority; it should be that the committee comprises people who would do an independent job on behalf of the people. If we look at the committee as being about Government versus Opposition, majority versus minority, it will start in a negative fashion. We have to respect the motion passed in the House some weeks ago. I am sorry for exceeding my time but this is important. We must fully respect a motion passed in the House and we must fully respect the Standing Orders of the House. If we attempt to do other than that, we will create a dangerous precedent.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is way over time.

Paul Bradford (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I concur with Senator Noone's comments about the failure to nominate a female Member but the Dáil had the power to nominate seven members of the committee and this House could only nominate two members. That is where the spotlight should shine. The Dáil was remiss in that regard.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My comment was not aimed at this House.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I listened with great interest to Senator Bradford's contribution and I disagree with little of what he said. However, while I have chaired the Committee of Selection, there have been 17 decisions, culminating in last night's decision, which have been put to the House. During my term, last night's meeting was the first at which a democratic voting process took place as set out in the normal circumstances. Will the Leader reflect on the implications of usurping the decision of the committee for Standing Orders? In addition, in the context of precedent, there was only one time in the past 60 years when a decision of the committee was challenged in the House and the outcome was the House upheld the decision following a division. As the committee chairman, I have to be careful not to impose my view and I must be fair and impartial. I ask the Leader and the Government to seriously reflect on any effort to revisit the issue, which, as chairman, I would be slow to do. Any other political attempt to usurp the democratic decision of the committee would want to be carefully thought out.

I wish Senator Norris well. He has been out sick and he attended the committee meeting. He came in with one mission in mind, which was to support his TCD colleague, Senator Barrett. That demonstrates his commitment to the task. Whatever about his physical and medical difficulties, there is nothing wrong with his brain. He is still acute and sharp and his comments did not do Senator Barrett harm when he was unanimously accepted as one of the two nominees.

With that in mind, I hope the issue can be resolved fairly and properly. Senator Maurice Cummins is very fair and a good Leader of the Seanad. I hope he can forget his role on behalf of the Government and do the right thing on behalf of the House.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the announcement of Ryanair's winter schedule which sees five additional routes compared to its winter schedule in 2013. We will see flights to Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Fuerteventura and Cracow continuing in the winter schedule. These flights commenced in April and it was intended that they would operate just for the summer period. This is a very significant announcement, given that there will be an extra 24 flights a week during the winter period between Shannon Airport and these European destinations. It is a significant vote of confidence by Ryanair in Shannon Airport. It means that what the Government is doing in having an independent Shannon Airport, with a focused aviation policy and marketing strategy, is working. Coupled with the elimination of the travel tax, the continuation of the 9% VAT rate and the recalibration of the airport structure, these are very positive steps. It will mean the continuation of jobs in the tourism sector and the creation of others during the off season in parts of Couny Clare, Limerick, County Kerry and the wider region. I look forward to further significant announcements by other airlines when they announce their winter schedules in the coming weeks.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In regard to the banking inquiry, I welcome the report of the Committee of Selection and look forward to the Government's response. This is a test of the promise to have open and transparent government, a new beginning and a democratic revolution. I hope the Government will see fit to make sure it does not descend into a show trial. A test of that commitment will be whether it seeks to change the decision of the Committee of Selection of the Seanad on the make-up of the Members selected.

I welcome the news on the impending appointment of the US ambassador to Ireland. As of last Monday, there were only 14 countries that did not have an ambassador appointed by the United States. At least, we will have a new ambassador from St. Louis. We look forward to his contribution in Ireland, including to the peace process, given the current position in dealing with the issues of parades and the past.

While talking about the past, the makers of last night's "Prime Time" programme on RTE should be complimented on their work in highlighting the torture that had taken place in the North of Ireland. The decisions were taken at a high level in the British Government; Prime Ministers and Ministers and were aware that the torture of Irish citizens was taking place in the North of Ireland. The matter was raised in the European Union by Jack Lynch. The European Court found that the British had not tortured these citizens, but, of course, this was because information had been withheld from the judges. Therefore, it is open to the Government to have the case reviewed. In regard to the Ballymurphy massacre 40 years ago, when 11 people were killed by British soldiers in west Belfast in a matter of days, the British refuse to conduct any investigation. Because of the work of RTE and the Pat Finucane Centre we are aware that British politicians took decisions to torture Irish citizens. Why has the Government not asked the British ambassador to make available to it files on the bombings in Dublin and Monaghan, the killings in Ballymurphy, the torture of Irish citizens and the ruling of the European Court which were used by the US Government to justify the torture of Iraqi citizens. The stress positions and five techniques used in Derry and Belfast sanctioned by the British Government were used on Iraqi citizens, most recently during the invasion of Iraq.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is way over time.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What happened in the past is still happening. I want to know what the Government is doing about it and why it has not asked the British ambassador to explain how sanction was given at the highest levels in the British Government to torture Irish citizens.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I raise an issue which has received surprisingly little attention, namely, the good performance of the nation's finances in the first five months of the year. By way of comparison, the deficit in the first five months of last year was €5.3 billion, whereas the deficit in the first five months of this year was €3.5 billion. It is clear, therefore, that the nation's finances are back on track, which is important. That said, it is also important that we do not ignore the difficulties people are experiencing. In that context, I raise the important issue of coastal erosion, particularly where properties are in danger. While funding has been made available for harbours and piers and some coastal erosion projects, there are areas in which private properties are in danger and the works required are beyond the scope of any individual to undertake. This is an issue we should examine. There are thousands of properties from north to south and east to west which need immediate and specific works to be undertaken. I am speaking, in particular, about my own area, County Wexford, which has the softest coastline in the country. We should take the opportunity to bring in both the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to put some measure in place to help those whose properties are in immediate danger. As I said, we cannot take the nation's finances in isolation and ignore the individual. If possible, we should debate the matter during this summer session in order to deal with it before the winter storms start. There are properties that could fall into the sea in the next 12 months.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the appointment of a new US ambassador to Ireland. I hope this will accelerate progress on the ongoing issue of immigration reform in the United States now that we will have somebody in place in the Phoenix Park who will be able to act as a conduit not only for the Government but also the wider Irish public. This is an issue that may seem to be under the radar, but it is just as hurtful and painful in its own way as many of the other issues raised in the House across the panoply of political activity. I emphasise this is not about striking a separate deal for the Irish, given that some commentators seem to have completely misinterpreted the position, rather it is about comprehensive immigration reform from which I hope the Irish would benefit. I applaud the actions of both the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach in this regard since they took office in that they have kept the issue high on the agenda. I have always believed the absence of an ambassador in situhere at a critical time in Irish-US relations, at a time when discussions on immigration reform were ongoing between Republicans and Democrats, would create a vacuum. Now that we will have somebody in place, I suggest on behalf of this House the Leader write to the incoming ambassador to congratulate him on his appointment and wish him well but also to point out that comprehensive immigration reform is a key issue for all sides of the House and one which we hope will be progressed as soon as possible.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join in the words of congratulation to former Senator Deirdre Clune on her election to the European Parliament.

I also welcome the imminent appointment of Mr. Kevin O'Malley as the US ambassador to Ireland. It is regrettable that it took 18 months for this appointment to be made, given the relationship between this island and the United States.

I congratulate Senator Barrett and Senator MacSharry on their appointment to the banking inquiry. They will be excellent representatives of this House and that inquiry is of great importance in addressing the crisis in the Irish banking sector. I join my colleagues in hoping the Government will accept the democratic decision of the Committee of Selection to appoint Senators MacSharry and Barrett and I commend the Leader of the House in ensuring this House will have two representatives on the inquiry.

I hope there is not a recurrence of what happened previously when some Government Senators did not toe the line on the so-called Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill. I do not blame the Leader of the House personally, but on that occasion he was instructed by the Government to suspend Standing Order 89, remove committee members and replace them with others without any input by the democratically elected Committee of Selection. The Government parties allowed this to happen. On behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party, I am putting the Leader of the House on notice that if he attempts to do so again we will not co-operate in the running of this House. I am sad that I had to say this but I feel it is only fair to give warning that our party will not co-operate with the smooth running of business in this House. This is not for party political reasons, it is for democratic reasons and in the interests of democracy.

I again commend both Senator MacSharry and Senator Barrett and I second Senator Bradford's proposed amendment to the Order of Business.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I congratulate Senator MacSharry and Senator Barrett on their appointment by the Committee of Selection last night. I presume the Clerk of the Seanad has notified the clerk of the banking inquiry of the appointments by the Seanad. Senator Bradford is correct that there is no requirement for the Seanad to approve or not approve this decision as that job has been done. There will be a different set-up to other committees as it will be governed by the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Act, which makes specific statutory reference to our Standing Orders. The Act says Standing Orders must be put in place within 50 days of the passing of the Act. This has been done and I assume our existing Standing Orders, which are now governed by statute, are included.

The banking inquiry was set up by a resolution of this House that specifically refers to Standing Order 89 and appointment by the Committee of Selection. The Standing Order refers to the Committee of Selection doing its job of appointing two Members and last night the Committee of Selection complied with the resolution of the House by appointing two Members to the banking inquiry.

I would not like to be the lawyer in the Office of the Attorney General who must examine this. This is a highly complex matter and the Government would be best to leave things alone. The reaction I have heard from the public suggests they do not wish for any perception of bias or interference by the Government in appointing members to the inquiry. The members appointed to the banking inquiry last night were appointed in accordance with the law. As far as I am concerned they are now members of the banking inquiry and I wish them every success and good luck in their work.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call on the Leader to facilitate a debate in this House with the Minister for agriculture present. This should be done ahead of the Minister's submission to the European Commission relating to the new Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, programme and the rural development programme, Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. This is of great importance to the farming sector in this country and to rural Ireland. I understand the Department will make its submission towards the end of June so a debate should to take place here prior to that.

I wish to congratulate my colleagues, Senator Barrett and Senator MacSharry, on their successful selection by the Committee of Selection last night. I note the views of Government Senators on the work of the Committee of Selection and I question why any Senator would doubt the ethos or integrity of a House committee, namely, the Committee of Selection. If the Government was to take the view that the democratic decision made by the Committee of Selection last night is voted down in this House it would do the Senate a disservice and totally undermine the Committee of Selection. I hope the Leader will take the pragmatic view that democracy means something. A decision taken by the Committee of Selection under Standing Order 89 should stand. I fail to understand why the Government feels it is necessary to have a controlling majority on the banking inquiry or why the Leader of the Seanad would not facilitate the democratic election of both Senators who were selected last night? I hope the Leader will allow democracy to prevail and will not undermine a House committee.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have listened to much rhetoric relating to Standing Orders from the high moral ground on the other side of the House. There was a general consensus that we would appoint one Government Senator and one non-Government Senator. However, I agree this was not mentioned in the motion that was passed. The motion only mentioned selecting two Senators. I am suggesting, and I am going to ask the Cathaoirleach, that the matter be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges so it can be investigated. I have information that I intend to bring to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and will do so acting in the best interests of the House at all times. Before any decision is ratified certain matters should be discussed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What matters?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Whoever suggested I am kicking to touch-----

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is already done.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It has come to my notice that it has been suggested Senator MacSharry may have a conflict of interest.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, there are very specific statutory procedures.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was not going to mention this issue but I am being pressed by the other side of the House.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader has been pressed by Deputy Paul Kehoe.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am being pressed by the other side of the House in this matter and thus ask that it be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. It is important that this House acts properly at all times.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, as the Leader has opted to make such a claim, it is only reasonable that he might do the House the service and me the courtesy of outlining the conflict of interest to which he refers.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not relevant.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have no intention of doing that.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I second the request made by Senator MacSharry. I have no political dog in this fight but everyone knows what is going on here.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a matter for the legislation that is setting up the inquiry. It is not a matter for this House.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Cathaoirleach has explained this and that is where the matter will be taken up.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I do not wish to interrupt the Leader but what is happening now is very serious. The Cathaoirleach chairs the CPP. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges has no role in the Committee of Selection. I am putting this question to you, a Chathaoirligh, and this is a point of order.

I and my group need to know whether the Cathaoirleach is going to accede to the Leader's request-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not making a decision on that matter now. I have not received any requests and I am not making any decisions.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am just trying to be helpful. We want this matter to be resolved. A democratic decision was made last night under Standing Order 89 and in the context of a motion tabled by the Government. The Leader is responding by stating that he will make a request to the CPP. Is he making a formal request, on the floor of this House, that the CPP meet?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are not dealing with that issue now.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am really sorry but we are dealing with it.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader is responding to the questions that were raised on the Order of Business.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry but all Members on this side have done is to simply ask whether the Government is going to abide by the democratic decision taken last night by the Committee of Selection in respect of the Government's motion tabled under Standing Orders.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator has made his point.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a serious point of order. The Cathaoirleach has never allowed the character of Members to be traduced or defamed in this House. In such circumstances, he must ask the Leader to withdraw-----

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not question the character of any Member and I want that comment withdrawn.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader made a very serious allegation against Senator MacSharry and the Cathaoirleach has never allowed that to happen before.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not question any Member's character.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Byrne should resume his seat.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Cathaoirleach ask the Leader to withdrawn the allegation?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am asking that Senator Byrne to withdraw the comment he made about me. I have not questioned the character of any Member.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader made a serious allegation.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader has not made any allegation yet. He said he was going to request the Chair to hold a meeting of the CPP.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He said that Senator MacSharry was biased in the context of the banking inquiry.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is not a matter to be dealt with on the floor of the House.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Even if he had €1 million outside the House-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Legislation and guidelines are to be put in place to deal with the banking inquiry.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Cathaoirleach ask the Leader to withdraw the allegation he made? He would not allow me to make such an allegation.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Byrne should withdraw the allegation he made about me.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I am sorry the Leader finds himself in this position. It just goes to show the consequences of the Government putting a gun to the head of the Leader of this House.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Senator wish to raise a point of order?

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is my understanding that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges has no function-----

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

None whatsoever.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in determining whether somebody has a conflict of interests.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This matter relates to suitability.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Under the terms of reference of the banking inquiry, it has none.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is being done is both a smokescreen and a delaying tactic. It is drawing into question the character and professional and political reputation of a Member of this House.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have received no request to hold a meeting of the CPP. Will Members allow the Leader to respond to the questions that were raised?

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader should withdraw his request immediately and accept the democratic decision made by the Committee of Selection which was taken yesterday. What is happening here is disgraceful.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader should withdraw his allegation.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, what the Government is doing is engaging in an act of political assassination. It did not get its way and it is now trying to assassinate the good name of a Member of the House, which is absolutely appalling.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can we allow the Leader to respond?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Cathaoirleach cannot allow the defamatory allegation which has been made to stand.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader must withdraw the allegation.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not hear any defamatory allegations being made.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not say what I am being accused of saying.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not hear any defamatory remarks.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader referred to a conflict of interests.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is shocking.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I formally request that the sitting be suspended right now in order that we might deal with this matter. I am not suggesting that he did so for any particular reason - it may even have been a mistake - but the Leader has called into question the suitability of Senator MacSharry to serve on the bank inquiry.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a matter for the inquiry, not for the House.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Cathaoirleach has a duty to protect the reputation of the Members of this House. In that context, I am asking him to resolve this matter by suspending the sitting for ten minutes in order that we might find out both what the Leader is proposing and the nature of the allegations to which he referred. I formally ask that, in the interests of getting our business done, the sitting be suspended for ten minutes in order to allow the leaders of the groups-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This matter is not going to be dealt with on the floor of the House.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is an extremely serious matter.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It will not be dealt with on the floor of the House.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was raised on the floor of the House. It is a serious matter.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, it was the Leader who chose to raise this matter on the floor of the House. As a Member of the House and as a citizen of Ireland, I am entitled to some level of protection from the Chair. The Leader stated that it has come to his attention that I have a conflict of interest. As a result of his choosing to share that information in the House and in front of the media, I am of the view that I, as an individual and as a Member of the Seanad, am entitled to hear from him, as is the House, what is the nature of that conflict of interest.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I remind the Cathaoirleach-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

May I explain the position to the Senator?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a procedure in place-----

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The procedure which took place yesterday when I accused a member of the HSE of spending the public's money, was that I was lifted by the Chair for saying something about someone outside the House in a way which could have made that individual identifiable. Here we have the Leader of the Seanad impugning my character-----

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not impugn the Senator's character at all.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and stating there is a conflict of interest. He is not prepared to share it when the reality is quite different.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not impugn the Senator's character.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

For my information, will the Leader please place on the record-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator MacSharry-----

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----the nature of the conflict of interests to which he refers? Surely I am entitled to that information.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator MacSharry-----

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Leader is not prepared to do that now, I expect a full statement-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will Senator MacSharry resume his seat for a moment?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----from the Government clarifying the position.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Senator resume his seat?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Outside the doors of this Chamber, the Leader will not have the protection of privilege.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader should repeat his allegation outside the Seanad.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The perception of bias is not a matter to be dealt with on the floor of the House.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is an outrage. I accuse you of being partisan in order to protect the Government. What is happening here is a disgrace.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator MacSharry's comments are outrageous.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is outrageous is what the Chair has allowed to be done to a Member of the House. It is a disgrace.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is an outrageous allegation.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It gives me no pleasure at all to say it, Sir. However, the Cathaoirleach is bringing the Chair and this House into disrepute by allowing this disgraceful impugning of the character of a Member.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator should please resume his seat.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator's accusation is worse than the one to which he is referring.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not a worse accusation.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order and from my personal knowledge of him, I am of the view that Senator MacSharry does not have a conflict of interest whatsoever.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not a point of order.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If this is a court of law, then I am speaking for the defence of a Senator who has been accused by the Leader of this House of having a conflict of interest.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not a point of order.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In Senator MacSharry's defence, I say that he has no such conflict of interest.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will Senator Leyden resume his seat?

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I have the height of respect for the Cathaoirleach and his impartiality. As Whip of the Fianna Fáil group, however, I must make it quite clear that we cannot allow the reply by the Leader to the Order of Business to continue until this matter has been resolved. I have nothing but the height of respect for the Chair, the Leader and every other Member but we cannot co-operate by allowing the Leader to continue with his reply to the Order of Business until this serious situation - which has serious implications for every Member of the House - has been resolved.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I repeat my ruling to the effect that the perception of bias is not a matter to be dealt with on the floor of the House.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where should it be dealt with?

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are talking here about an allegation. The Cathaoirleach should oblige the Leader to withdrawn the allegation he made.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator MacSharry made a worse accusation.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are guidelines which apply in this regard.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those opposite should respect the Chair.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could Members please allow the Cathaoirleach to speak?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are guidelines and legislation in place for dealing with this issue.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What about the allegation? The Cathaoirleach does not need any guidelines to rule on that.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I already made a ruling in that regard.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All I am asking is that, for our knowledge, the Cathaoirleach expand on that ruling, explain the nature of the guidelines and indicate how the matter will be dealt with.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not expanding on my ruling.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I need to know the position.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order and as the Cathaoirleach rightly stated, we amended Standing Orders to cover the perception of bias. Those Standing Orders do not, however, cover the Leader of the House making an off-the-cuff allegation about one Member. In fact, I am of the view that the Leader has poisoned the banking inquiry in the context of the defamatory allegation he made. It is the responsibility of the Cathaoirleach to protect both the House and the Member involved by obliging the Leader to withdraw that allegation.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader made no allegation.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The allegation he made has nothing to do with the Standing Orders relating to the perception of bias.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I think the Seanad should take some time to consider this matter. I propose, therefore, that the sitting be suspended for 30 minutes.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I second that proposal.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a matter for the Leader to propose that proceedings be suspended.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am asking that the Leader-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not accepting the Senator's proposal. He is not the Leader of the House.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask that the Leader move the suspension of proceedings for a period of 30 minutes.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, it has been brought to my attention that the only other occasion on which proposals from the Committee of Selection were challenged in the Seanad was when the Labour Party opposed former Senator Joe O'Toole's nomination to the Commission of the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Seanad stood by the committee's decision on that occasion. It should also be noted that Labour was in opposition at the time.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not relevant. I call on the Leader to reply to the Order of Business.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise but, with all due respect to the Cathaoirleach, the Leader and other Members, I made it quite clear that our group will not allow the Leader to continue with his reply to the Order of Business until this very serious matter - which relates to a Member of the House - is dealt with to our satisfaction.

The House and, in particular, the Member are entitled to that.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A point of order.

Paul Bradford (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You may say it is not a point of order. Could I ask, as a long-serving Member of this House, that we would reflect on the very sensible, wise and calm intervention of Senator D'Arcy? We are all adults and surely if we could suspend for 20 minutes or half an hour it should be possible to resolve this difficulty. We do not want this House brought into disrepute. I formally second the proposal put before the House by Senator Michael D'Arcy, as he is entitled to do.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can only accept a proposal such as that from the Leader.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will agree to a suspension of the House for 30 minutes so that the leaders can discuss this matter.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To clarify the ruling that I made earlier in the House, on 5 February this year, the Seanad adopted Standing Orders which among other things set down procedures for dealing with perception of bias in relation to Members appointed to take part in a Part 2 inquiry under the Houses of Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Act 2013. These procedures allow for written submissions in this regard, with supporting evidence, to be made to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. A matter of this kind cannot be raised on the floor of the House.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In light of the Chairman's ruling, I ask for a suspension of the House for a further half an hour to enable us to discuss the matter with the leaders.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The only person who breached those Standing Orders this morning was the Leader of the House. The Cathaoirleach should ask him as a matter of course to withdraw the allegations that he made.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He made no allegations.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator, the Leader has made a proposal.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the Leader's proposal for a further suspension so that the leaders and the Whips might discuss this matter. We fully understand the gravity of the situation and we shall try to facilitate the Government getting out of the mess that it created this morning.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would not agree with that.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Cathaoirleach's clarification that any comment on any Member who is appointed to serve on the banking inquiry must go in writing to the CPP and cannot be mentioned on the floor of the House.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Leader withdraw the allegation?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There was no allegation.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call the Leader.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose a further suspension of the House until 2 p.m.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I also propose that we defer debate on the Companies Bill until next week.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Leader to withdraw the remarks in relation to Senator MacSharry.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have listened to the recording of this morning's proceedings. What I actually said was that I had information of a suggested conflict of interest. It was only ever my intention to have the information I received considered by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges before any appointment to the committee of inquiry was ratified. I had no intention at any stage of impugning any Senator's integrity.

In view of the Cathaoirleach's ruling and in the interests of the harmony of the House and to allow today's business as scheduled to proceed, I am prepared to withdraw the words "conflict of interest". I am not prepared to go any further on the matter. I hope that the House will accept my bona fides on this matter.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Order of Business agreed?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No. What happened here today is most unfortunate. The Committee of Selection met legitimately with a quorum and selected Senators Seán D. Barrett and Marc MacSharry to be members of the banking inquiry. It is not in any way, shape or form coincidental that the statement made earlier by the Leader was directly related to that decision because it suits Government to have a majority on the inquiry and its nominee was not successful in being appointed. That is the background. It cannot be dressed up in any other way, shape or form. No one can disagree with that.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can disagree with it.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, but without credibility.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

With credibility.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have the utmost respect for the Leader. I have worked closely with him over the past three years and have the utmost regard for how he has always conducted himself in this House. For us, what happened this morning was a bridge too far. The Leader has withdrawn the remark of a suggested conflict of interest. I can tell him there is no conflict of interest. As per the Cathaoirleach's ruling, it was highly inappropriate for the Leader to raise this issue on the floor of the House today. That should not have happened.

The Leader should apologise to Senator MacSharry and his family for what has been said here today. I put it to him as a respected colleague that at the very least decency requires that he apologise in the House today to our colleague.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is appropriate. We all make mistakes. I have said things before that I regretted saying and I have apologised for them. Members here know that. There is no weakness in apologising and admitting one made a mistake. I put it to the Leader that the foundation of the banking inquiry is rocked owing to what happened last night at the Committee of Selection and the manner in which the Government has dealt with it here today, which was unprecedented. The public want a banking inquiry and deserve to have one. They also deserve a non-partisan banking inquiry. An independent committee of the Seanad met and according to procedures, selected two Members of this House for appointment to the inquiry. The Government parties are not happy with that decision. That is politics, life and democracy. That decision stands. It was made under Standing Order 89 and according to the Government's motion which came before this House on 14 May. As far as we are concerned, that is a separate issue. It is done and dusted in that two Members have been selected.

I acknowledge that the Leader has withdrawn part of the remarks he made earlier.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All of them.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Okay. I welcome that. However, I believe it is not too much to ask that the Leader apologise to a colleague in the House for putting those remarks on the record of this House.

John Gilroy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Be magnanimous.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator O'Brien without interruption, please.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader made a very serious charge earlier, which has already had ramifications in terms of the broadcasting of the proceedings of this House and on the Internet and so on. What happened is unfortunate. It should not have happened. It was a mistake. I put it to the Leader that it was an error of judgment. While acknowledging that the Leader has withdrawn the remarks, I ask that he apologise to our colleague. We can then move on to the business of the House and to ensuring that the two selected members, Senators Barrett and MacSharry, fulfil their role on the banking inquiry, as I am certain they will do.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I said previously, what I actually said was that based on information I had received, there was a suggested conflict of interest. I am prepared to withdraw those remarks.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Bradford has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 16 be taken before No. 1". Is the amendment being pressed?

Paul Bradford (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Leader willing to accept the amendment?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader of the House has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 4 be deleted from today's Order of Business." Is that agreed? Agreed.