David Norris (Independent)
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I move:

Seanad Éireann consequent upon the unanimous decision of the Committee on Procedures and Privileges to add the name of His Holiness Pope Francis the First to be included among the most prominent distinguished visitors to be invited to address Seanad Éireann, strongly supports this invitation and requests the Government to assist in making the formal arrangements necessary for such a visit which may naturally include meetings with the President, An Taoiseach and political leaders.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I will leave it in the Senator’s capable hands.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am very heartened by the general support I have received from colleagues. This motion was put before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and passed unanimously. It now goes before the House.

The reason I came up with this idea is that there are very few world leaders who have any kind of vision at all. In the person of Pope Francis, we have someone with a prophetic, compelling and comprehensive vision. In my opinion, if anyone needed proof of the existence of God and of the Holy Spirit, this man is it. How he was found among a collection of cardinals appointed by his two predecessors is a genuine miracle. He is an extraordinary person. I am a realist. I am an Anglican and have no intention of changing my religion because I am impressed by this man. I also do not believe he is going to campaign for gay marriage or women priests. However, he has changed the entire climate of debate within the Catholic church, allowing for genuine dialogue. Christendom is in a perilous state. This is a man who has spotted the iceberg and is trying to turn Titanic around.

On his first appearance on the Vatican balcony, I felt the exceptional goodness of this person, even mediated through the electronic broadcast media. He had something of the spirit of the beloved Pope John XXIII with his rejection of pomp, circumstance and majesty. We have heard less of that rather bullying language traditionally used by the Vatican, the language of magisterium, authority and all the rest of it. This is a man of genuine of Christ-like humility. The fact he took the name Francis is very significant. There is an arrogance and megalomania of the human animal that sees itself as the only significant life force on Earth. The name Francis reminds us of our need to care for other life forms in this world.

By addressing Seanad Éireann and coming to Ireland, he would give us all a lift at this time in our history. He brings hope, joy and community. It is not just a sentimental thing. I did feel a strong emotional draw towards him when he came out on the balcony and refused to be decorated like a Christmas tree. There is real substance to what he does and says. He says, “I am a sinner”. There is a lack of arrogance in that.

He lives a modest lifestyle and demonstrates his solidarity with the marginalised. For example, there was the moving occasion when he celebrated mass on an upturned boat at Lampedusa in solidarity with the marginalised African peoples trying to get to Europe because of their desperate economic, political and human rights plight. He is concerned for the unemployed and economic disparities. He has recognised the whole financial system needs to be addressed. It is perfectly clear that the obsession with the minutiae of human sexuality is on the backburner as far as this Pope is concerned. He is dealing with real issues which affect everyone. He speaks from the heart about a church that knows the dirt, the poverty and the distress of the streets.

I am not sure he will be able to accept an invitation to address the Seanad. He has two roles as the leader of the largest Christian denomination and as a Head of State. Ireland, however, has a special place in the history of the church. It also has a special place in his life, as he was partly educated at Milltown. I hope he has happy memories of his time in Ireland. I also hope this motion is passed unanimously and referred back to the delicate machinery of diplomacy in order that this might be accomplished. I thank my colleagues on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges who passed this motion unanimously, as well as the advice given by Deirdre Lane, Jody Blake and the rest of the staff on the delicate diplomatic negotiations required.

I think this would be a healing process. Perhaps it is too much to hope that if he was able to come, he would be able to visit the North of Ireland. Would that not be a fantastic thing if he - a good, simple, ordinary man who reaches out to the hearts of everybody, whether they have religion or none - was able to go to that part of our island and help to reconcile people? If he could at least come here, I, for one, would be humbled to sit in his presence.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I second the motion and commend Senator Norris on all the work he has put into this. I welcome the decision of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to also endorse what is proposed here.

As Senator Norris was concluding his remarks about the possibility of a visit to Northern Ireland, I was reminded that just very recently, at St. Anne's Cathedral in Belfast, the papal nuncio and my good friend, the Archbishop of Armagh, the Most Reverend Richard Clarke, embraced on the altar. These gestures are most important to us. We need people of vision and spirituality. I might like Pope Francis to have slightly different views, as Senator Norris would, on debates within the church about the traditionally inferior roles of women, the unfortunate record in many cases in dealing with children and in regard to the LGBT community. However, that is for another day, and discussions on developing these ideas have much to commend them.

It is also what the public outside would like us to do. We meet them when they come to the Visitors Gallery virtually every day. They like what they see in Parliament and they would like us to participate in the invitation to the Pope to be here. I believe they would be very happy to have this motion passed.

It comes in a wonderful tradition, as we will know from looking around the building. We have been enriched and ennobled every time we have had these great visits. The memorials are all about us of the visits of President Kennedy, President Reagan, President Mitterand, President Nelson Mandela, Prime Minister Hawke, Prime Minister Keating and Prime Minister Blair, as well as the visits to this House of the Orange Order and of Professor Christopher Pissarides, the Nobel prize winner in economics. There were also the wonderful tributes we had here to Seamus Heaney, which moved everybody present.

We are called upon, in an era when GDP is in all sorts of trouble and that part of society has failed, to look up, to have vision and to have spirituality. I know this visit would enhance Irish society immensely. It would be a matter of great joy to all of the Members of the Seanad were His Holiness, the Pope, to address us as part of the visit. I believe it is a very commendable motion that Senator Norris has put before the House and it is an honour to second it.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I apologise to Senator Norris that I was not present to hear him speak, as I got waylaid, but I am sure he performed wonderfully, as ever. I believe this is a wonderful idea. It was proper and appropriate that the CPP was unanimous when he put the matter to it. We all agreed that this Pope is one of the great popes of our time, certainly, perhaps of all time. While that is yet to be judged, as he is only 11 months in office, already he has brought about an amazing transformation.

That he comes from Argentina is very important for us here in Ireland. If Senator Norris has already referred to this, he will forgive me, but that country is the largest non-English speaking segment of the Irish diaspora and the fifth largest overall. The Argentinian navy was founded by a Mayo man, Admiral Brown, and, as I have mentioned in the House before, its rail system was founded by John Coghlan, an ancestor of mine. There is a borough or district, just as Sandymount or Donnybrook is a district, known as Coghlan, and a railway station is named after him. I have not seen it, by the way, but close relatives of mine have visited and brought me back wonderful photographs. The Pope is of Italian parents and I believe he has a wonderful respect for Ireland. This invitation is tremendously important and, please God, it is something that will be pursued and taken up. We should also give credit to his representative here in Ireland, the Papal Nuncio, Archbishop Charles Brown, who might be connected with Admiral Brown, for all we know. In any case, I know he has great time for the Irish-Argentinian connection.

The Pope has done a lot to date. In particular, he appointed the eight cardinals to advise him on reformation and reorganisation - the C8, as they are known. They have been dealing with many things which gave us trouble, shall we say, in the recent past. I understand that, on this very day in Rome, they are dealing with the Institute for the Works of Religion, more commonly known as the Vatican Bank. Unfortunately, while there might have been good men at the head of it, they might not have known what the minions were up to. In any event, the council of eight cardinals is dealing with that today in Rome. This Pope, in getting these people together, and in all he is doing and wants to do, and all that, hopefully, he will have the time and energy to deal with, is doing very important work.

This is a wonderful idea from Senator Norris, very ably seconded by Senator Barrett. We all think well of it and I believe it will be very good for this House and for the country. It has my party's fullest support.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I am reminded today of the imagery of the acorn and the great oak. It is possible this motion is the acorn but it certainly has the potential to become the great oak. That is why I commend Senator Norris. I must admit that when he first circulated a note to us all asking whether we would support it, I had a certain doubt in my mind as to how it might be perceived or even be ridiculed, like The Skibbereen Eagle and the Tsar. All of those things went through my mind, but the more I thought about it, the more I realised that any worthwhile development has to start from a premise of openness. That is precisely what Senator Norris has done here. I listened to the Senator's contribution and one would have to be inspired by it. He finished by saying he would be humbled to be in the presence of Pope Francis. I do not mean he would be humbled as a person, rather, his point is the mere fact of being able to engage with Pope Francis, what he stands for, what he believes in and, indeed, the general perception which is out there at the moment of Pope Francis.

The Pope has a very difficult task, there is no question of that. We are at a crossroads, but it is not only the church that is at a crossroads because society is at a crossroads and Ireland is at a crossroads. This is not for any particular issue. It can be an economic issue, an issue of deprivation or an issue of a lack of human rights, but there is a crossroads. We have two choices. Either we stick in that position or we endeavour to put the head above the parapet and decide which road we want to go on.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no reason at all that this invitation should not be progressed. I believe it will make it easier for officialdom to handle it by having it come from this Assembly. It is a good starting point in itself. We only know of Pope Francis from the media because we have never met him, and I am sure some may look on it differently from others. However, in the main, there is one central theme coming across from his papacy, which is that he is a humble man. When he should have been at a ceremonial occasion, he decided he would visit a prison and meet the prisoners. I do not believe this was gimmickry.

I am convinced he is genuine in his approach to these matters. Since becoming Pope, he has gone out onto the streets - incommunicado, so to speak - to meet poor people. Surely that is what Christianity is all about.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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He is like Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Yes. I am always saddened when I hear that in more than half the developed countries in the world, Christians cannot practise their faith. That is a frightening statistic.

Pope Francis has an exceptionally difficult task ahead of him. Popes, like all leaders, are obliged to interact with people, including those with whom they do not agree. I am speaking here in the context of countries and administrations. When one considers how Russia and even China are developing at this time - countries we thought would always be isolated and with which we would never communicate - there is some room for optimism. When we interact and use employ diplomacy and dialogue, it is much better than any type of violent reaction. Pope Francis comes across as a very peace-loving person and a very understanding man. It is very easy when one is comfortable in one's own skin to forget how many people are not comfortable in their skin and who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in difficult positions. People in those circumstances are always pleased when they encounter somebody who reaches out and tries to understand.

If Pope Francis accepts an invitation to visit Ireland, an address to the Seanad should form part of it. It is not just Catholics or even other Christians who would have a welcome for him. I heard an interview on the radio this morning with the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights in which she was asked whether the situation in regard to human rights is better than it was ten years ago. Her response was that the situation is more stressful than ever. The violence taking place in various countries around the world can lead, at times, to a sense of helplessness and hopelessness. We can look to the Heads of State involved to provide leadership but the reality is that they themselves are very often involved in militarism, arms trading and all of it. If one person can stand aside from that and hold out a message of hope, understanding and reconciliation, then that must be welcome.

I do not know when a visit to this country by Pope Francis might happen. Although the future of the Seanad is secure for now, I do not know whether any of us in this Chamber today will still be here when he arrives in Ireland. I certainly would feel exceptionally happy to have Pope Francis speaking directly to us as legislators. Even if the most difficult questions were put to him, I feel sure he would do his best to be open and transparent and, at the same time, understanding towards people. My hope is that the train of thought that has begun here today through the good work and initiative of Senator Norris will develop and evolve. I conclude by reminding colleagues of the fable of the acorn and the great oak, which speaks of the importance of believing the impossible is sometimes possible. If we do not adopt that philosophy, we remain stagnant. Senator Norris and the colleagues who are supporting this motion believe it is possible to advance this invitation. I certainly hope their initiative is successful.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I very rarely stand on ceremony, but I will do so on this occasion. Senator Norris first circulated this motion at a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, and I was the second person to sign it. Today, however, I find my name is No. 23 on the list. I take this opportunity to remind Senator Norris that I was second to put my name to the proposal.

David Norris (Independent)
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I thank the Senator for her support.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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The main question to consider in debating this motion is whether the invitation should be issued to Pope Francis as a distinguished visitor to the House. The invitation would, of course, have to be issued on behalf of the State. I very much support such an invitation for several reasons. First, Pope Francis is the leader of one of the largest religious denominations in the world, with 770 million of its adherents residing outside western Europe, in Africa, Asia and the Americas. That is an important factor, because we tend to be very much preoccupied with issues relating to the Western world and not the broader issues that dominate the global world.

It is important to bear in mind that any discussion of the Catholic Church and Christianity in general must take on board the issue of power. We are used to dealing with multinational power, governmental power, corporate power - the types of powers which often are exercised without the interests of the individual being at their heart. One of the main principles of Christianity - for the Catholic Church, Anglican Church and other churches with a Christian ethos - is the importance of the individual in society and the importance of individual rights. I disagree with Senator Ó Murchú that our impression of Pope Francis is largely based on a media representation. On the contrary, he has been represented by his own words. I have in front of me an edition of America Magazine containing an extensive interview in which he outlines his position on a wide range of issues. His pronouncements on poverty, the importance of the individual and of what he calls "discernment" - what might more usually be referred to as "conscience" - in terms of how individuals, societies and governments exercise their power, are very enlightening. As a social democrat, I find what he has to say in general terms about how governments and societies should exercise their conscience towards individuals to be very persuasive. It is a very important message which needs to go out to the world.

In many of his public statements, the Pope has touched broadly on the failings of modern capitalism. It is not surprising that these pronouncements have not been enormously popular among some of the more right-wing groups in the United States, for example. Certainly, he has not found a unanimous welcome in that country. I do not support extreme right-wing religious dogma, irrespective of whence it comes. I admire the Pope for what he has done and said in regard to the importance of dealing with poverty, of not allowing multinational interests such as bankers, for the sake of argument, to dominate the international agenda. His message should be welcomed by all. Given that he has 770 million followers outside the Western world, it is important that he is making statements in a scenario where Uganda, for example, has imposed the death penalty on homosexuals. It is an important point to bear in mind in terms of where the man is coming from and the context of his statements.

It is important to acknowledge who the Pope is as a person, as eloquently described by Senator Norris. He is a humble man. He is a man who has made his position very clear in terms of what he believes to be the important issues. He has stated that how we respond to the poorest of people in our society is the most important consideration. Across the spectrum of issues, whether same-sex marriage, the role of women and so on, I am an adamant advocate of equality. It is important to bear in mind that one does not turn an institution like the Catholic Church around in 24 hours, but the Pope's self-awareness on these issues is clear. He has mentioned, for instance, that he has been challenged on not being sufficiently dogmatic on the issue of homosexuality. His response was that he was nobody to judge.

While I might argue with his views on the role of women and in respect of homosexual rights, I am of the view that he has moved the church in the right direction. He is caught up in an official position but that should not blind us to the moves he is making in a wider sense. Neither must we forget the emphasis he is placing on issues I believe to be of great importance, namely, the role of the individual and our responsibility to every individual and in the context of world power. As a social democrat, I do not believe a rising tide raises all boats and, therefore, I do not believe in a trickle-down approach. It is a great source of comfort to me that someone as important as Pope Francis does not believe in it either.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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He believes that every one of us has a personal responsibility.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I am delighted to contribute to this debate this motion, which was proposed by Senator Norris and seconded by Senator Barrett. The entire concept behind the motion is one which we must support. I am obliged to declare an interest in that I received a Papal knighthood 20 years ago. While it was not bestowed upon me by Pope Francis, I am biased in respect of this matter. Pope Francis is the first holder of that office during my lifetime who is younger than me. In fact, I am just two weeks older than him. I doubt, however, that he is aware of this fact.

The concept of inviting Pope Francis to address the Seanad provides a real reminder of the power of this House in the context of doing something to change the world. The Pope is the one who is changing the world. Senator Ó Murchú referred to the acorn and the oak. There is little doubt that this man can change and - by his very behaviour - that he has already changed. It is the little things that sometimes change people's attitudes. For example, he telephoned from Rome the man in Argentina who delivered his daily newspaper to cancel his order. This shows both humility and personality. Senators Norris and Barrett referred to the fact that the Pope no longer stays in a grand palace and that, unlike some of his predecessors, he does not wear glamorous clothes. We can learn a great deal from this man.

I do not know whether it was Hitler who, in the context of one of the Pope's predecessors, inquired as to the number of legions he had at his disposal.

David Norris (Independent)
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I think that was Napoleon.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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Perhaps it was. I am not old enough to remember.

The current Pope's ability to change is something of which he can be very proud. In the context of global inequity, he recently stated, "New ideologies, characterised by rampant individualism, egocentrism and materialistic consumerism, weaken social bonds, fuelling that "throw away" mentality which leads to contempt for ... the weakest and those considered "useless"". These are the opinions of a man who is used to contemplating matters and who knows that by his very behaviour he can change the world. A great deal can be done on that basis. In light of this country's past experience, we can understand the sentiment expressed by the Pope.

Our Government is to be commended on realising the value of reopening the Irish embassy to the Vatican. It must be remembered that diplomatic links of that nature are all about intelligence and knowledge-gathering. The Vatican has one of the best diplomatic networks in the world. It has been engaging in diplomacy for thousands of years. Cutting off connections with the Vatican is not the way to go. With the reopening of the embassy, we can strengthen co-operation between the two states and work together to tackle issues such as hunger and poverty. In a recent article in The Economist it is stated that "Pope Francis certainly has all the necessary building-blocks to explore the links between culture, inequality and poverty". He is attracting worldwide attention for doing exactly the sort of things we would like to see him doing to attract such attention. He is someone of whom we can be very proud.

I am not sure how we would go about issuing to the Pope an invitation to address this House. I am sure it would have to be done at State level. I hope there is a possibility he would visit Ireland in order to take up such an invitation. Extending to Pope Francis an invitation to visit this country would be an important step on the road to exploring how we can work together on the issues that confront the world. He has shown us one way to do it. Let us see if we can enhance matters by taking our own steps in the same direction. I would welcome the State's involvement in respect of this matter. I hope the support required in respect of Senator Norris's proposal will be forthcoming. As Senator Norris reminded us, the Pope spent some years studying in Dublin when he was a student. I am sure he has good memories of the city and, if so, this might encourage him to pay us a visit. Such a Papal visit would be the second of its kind to this country and we would certainly welcome it very much.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this wonderful motion. I remember the great buzz of excitement which accompanied the visit of Pope John Paul II in 1979, which took in Dublin, Galway, Maynooth and Knock.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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And Limerick.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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That is right. It would be wonderful if we could extend to Pope Francis an invitation to address the House. Like previous speakers, I do not know how we would go about doing that. The State could certainly issue an invitation.

Pope Francis is a very humble man and he has managed to attract the attention of younger people. There is a need to encourage younger people to become involved. As Senator Quinn observed, the Pope does not reside in a big house but rather lives in more humble accommodation. It would be great if the State were to invite him to visit. It would be great if, on his visit, he could address this House. I join others in looking forward to the possibility of such a visit.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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This is an interesting motion. I note that, for whatever reason, my name is not attached to it. Senator Hayden stated that Christianity is about power. I do not see it that way. Christianity is about salvation and involves encouraging and helping us to live our lives in a way that is in accordance with the teachings of Christ. As we go through life, we are constantly searching for the truth - we have an obligation in that regard - in respect of all issues and despite the fact that we might attract criticism or court unpopularity as a result. In politics, the challenge in searching for the truth is greater than in most other spheres. This is because of the electoral system and the fact that the propensity to try to be popular and politically correct can sometimes lead us in directions which, perhaps, we should not go.

The commentary, both in this House and internationally, since Pope Francis was elected as Bishop of Rome last year has been interesting. Throughout his life, the Pope has been on a journey. At 36, he was nominated to be the provincial of his order - the Jesuits - in Buenos Aires. That was a very young age at which to take up such a position. At the time he worked under Pedro Arrupe, the former Superior General of the Jesuits, who was based in Rome. I know the Pope still carries great devotion for the late Pedro Arrupe and that six months ago he spent some time praying at his grave. On many occasions I have repeated the following quote from Pedro Arrupe, "Let there be men and women who will bend their energies not to strengthen positions of privilege, but, to the best extent possible, reduce privilege in favour of the underprivileged". Thinking of that sort ultimately led to the development in South America of what became known as liberation theology.

It is not widely known that Pope Francis as archbishop of Buenos Aires and provincial of his order was strongly opposed to liberation theology. He always felt there was a need to work with and assist the poor but there should be no involvement in the politics which went with that. He steered a course in Argentina that was different from that steered in many other South American countries.

For those who take an interest, some of the encyclicals are worth looking at. His first encyclical, which is about the joy of the Gospel, is a particularly good read. Regardless of whether one is a believer, lukewarm or an unbeliever, one can benefit immensely from some of these encyclicals. Indeed, Pope Benedict's encyclical on love was widely read and endorsed by many people who were not Catholic or Christian.

The significant thing about Pope Francis is that he has been a witness to the teachings of the church in his life, actions and words. Last September, I had the opportunity on a visit to Rome to get an audience with the Pope. Prior to it, I spoke to somebody who told me stories that have not appeared in the press. Some weeks prior to my visit a woman arrived at the Vatican and went to some of the Swiss Guards with some members of her family. It was very obvious that the woman was very ill. Her face had suffered disfigurement because of a tumour. She asked whether she could meet the Pope. In the past, I would say that this would not have been an expectation she would have had but the guards told her to hold on, rang the apartments and got the Pope's private secretary. The secretary said "Hold on" and the woman and her family had a quiet private audience with the Pope in his apartments for some time. This was told to me by people who had obviously been speaking to him. Another story involved a young boy whose brother had been killed in an automobile accident. He and his mother were very distressed and he wrote a note to the Pope asking him to pray for his young brother who had been killed. The young boy who wrote the letter was only about nine or ten years of age. Apparently, it was delivered to the Pope. The young boy was at home one afternoon and received a telephone call to be told "this is Pope Francis". The young boy said that his mother asked him to write the letter and dictated it so the Pope asked to be put on to the boy's mother. To think that he had that common touch shows an element of concern for and empathy with people, which we all need in politics. It is great to see it in somebody at that level.

I would like to see the Pope visit Ireland. In many ways, I would prefer if it was a pastoral rather than an official visit. Most of our human rights have emanated from our Christian traditions over the centuries. These values serve us all. I certainly concur with the motion that Pope Francis would visit Ireland. I hope we would see that in our lifetime.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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As a co-signatory of the motion, I wish to express my solidarity with my colleagues on all sides of the House. I will not go into a very long discourse on the merits or otherwise of having Pope Francis visit this Chamber and, by extension, visiting Ireland. However, it is important that we express an opinion. The fact that this motion is before the House and that the Seanad is passing a motion endorsing the recommendations also elevates the invitation to a much higher level than what would normally be the case if it was just coming through the CPP.

In the context of the impact Pope Francis is having in his short tenure, I looked up what were the top ten papal quotes. I will not quote all of the ten but some of them are relevant as to why I believe a man of his immense humanity and ability should come to Ireland. It is said that he is "making waves by challenging Catholic leaders to build a 'church for the poor', urging the hierarchy not to be 'obsessed' with a few hot-button issues and challenging 'trickle-down' economic theories." That alone is a reason that we should invite him. Of course, his most famous quote was that relating to his attitude towards homosexuality. What he actually said in an interview aboard the papal plane after World Youth Day in Brazil was "if someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" I think that was an extraordinary statement coming from the Pope when one looks at the history of oppression experienced by those who are gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender down through the ages. He also said

A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: "Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?" We must always consider the person.

Just as the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say "thou shalt not" to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?

The changing nature of Irish society and, in some ways, the loosening of the bonds that existed between the Irish people and the Catholic Church as an institution is indicated by an interview conducted on behalf of major Jesuit journals around the world. In the interview, he said:

Instead of being just a church that welcomes and receives by keeping the doors open, let us try also to be a church that finds new roads, that is able to step outside itself and go to those who do not attend Mass, to those who have quit or are indifferent. The ones who quit sometimes do it for reasons that, if properly understood and assessed, can lead to a return. But that takes audacity and courage.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I would like to place on the record a point of information relating to the Pope Francis's connection with Ireland. I will be very brief and read from an interview he gave where he spoke about his favourite books. He said that he had read The Betrothed by Alessandro Manzoni three times, that it was on his table because he liked to read it again and again and because Manzoni had given him so much and that when he was a child, his grandmother had taught him the beginning of it by heart: "That branch of Lake Como that turns off to the south between two unbroken chains of mountains." In the same breath, he said: "I also liked Gerard Manley Hopkins very much."

This emphasises his Irish connection.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to apologise on behalf of the Leader. He had hoped to be present to contribute, as he is concerned with the re-opening of the embassy to the Vatican and so on, but he is sick.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I ask that it be noted on the record that the question was carried unanimously.

David Norris (Independent)
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I also ask that the transcript be sent to the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade with the request that they do what they can to advance this unanimous Seanad Éireann motion. We need to hear from someone like the man who is the author of Evangelii Gaudium, the joy of the Gospel.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but Senator Norris should bring his suggestion of a transcript being sent to the Taoiseach to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We should also send the transcript to the Apostolic Nuncio, Archbishop Charles Brown.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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That is not a matter for the House.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I propose that the House suspend until 3 p.m.