Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on budget 2014, to be taken at 4.45 p.m. and to conclude not later than 7 p.m., with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, and the Minister to be called on to reply not later than 6.50 p.m.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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We will not be opposing the Order of Business. While no one wants to pre-empt what is in the budget today, I think it shows scant regard for the Oireachtas and the Parliament when one considers the level of kite flying in the newspapers today and yesterday. Two editorials today seemed to predict authoritatively what will be read out at 2.30 p.m. and 3 p.m. today by the Ministers in the other House. I am sure the Leader would agree that the Members of both Houses require a little more respect as the people's representatives than that which has been rolled out today.

We will have the opportunity this afternoon to comment on what is actually in the budget. While one can appreciate, given that it is 1.10 p.m., that the budget has gone to the printers some time ago, I can only express the hope that the actual budget we hear is not as mean-spirited as has been suggested by the media.

No one envies the Ministers their task to try to save €2.4 billion, but all parties in opposition have made suggestions on how they would put forward an alternative budget in this regard. Some notable things jump out immediately, including the bereavement grant. Surely it cannot be true that such a callous development would take place in terms of a savage cut such as this. It was first introduced in 1999 to help people at their most vulnerable time, when a loved one has passed away, to deal with the significant costs of funerals, some €3,000 on average outside Dublin and €4,500 in Dublin. It was brought in 1999 at about €630. At that time it cost €25 billion to run the country every year. Today, it costs €52 billion or €53 billion to run the country every year and we want to scrap the €850 grant, which is the level it is at today. Surely our priorities are wrong if this is what we are trying to do.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Is Senator MacSharry from the Department of Finance?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry, without interruption.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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On a point of order-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry, without interruption.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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He is discussing the budget before we even know what is in it.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator, without interruption, please, on the Order of Business.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Also, one would hope-----

A Senator:

That is not the Order of Business.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has Senator MacSharry a question for the Leader?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Also, one would hope that the media-predicted doubling of the prescription charge to €2.50 will not materialise. The Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, promised to get rid of this charge.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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My question is whether these savage measures will be included in a budget that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, had the gall to predict today would be a family budget in all its respects.

While I am perfectly entitled to raise these issues on the basis that the Order Business specifically mentions statements on the budget later in the day, it is impossible, given the kite flying and media coverage of recent days about such cuts, to avoid that.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is speculation. Has the Senator a question?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the Leader to reflect on the points I am making and, even at this late hour, to try to impress upon the Minister the fact that such cuts-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is over time.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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-----would be uncalled for and mean-spirited in the extreme. At the same time, we are managing to protect the most well-heeled and best placed to shoulder additional burdens while focusing on the elderly, the weak and those who have been bereaved.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It seems as if we are having budget statements before the budget has even been announced, which I do not think is appropriate. I thank the Leader for giving time this afternoon for statements on the budget. I think that is appropriate and it is good to see we will be able to do that.

I renew my call on the Leader for a debate on universal health care and on the steps and progress that have been taken towards universal health care. Certainly, it would be good to have this in the immediate aftermath of the budget announcement this afternoon. It is likely that certain measures will be announced.

I hope steps will be taken towards that objective and there certainly has been particular speculation - which remains just that at this point - that free health care for the under-fives will be rolled out as part of that process of moving towards a system of universal health care for all and the abolition of the inequitable two-tier health system that has been perpetuated over many decades by successive Governments. If that step is announced in the budget this afternoon, it would be an important progressive step towards universal health care.

Last week, I asked the Leader for a debate on this issue in the near future and I renew that call. It also is important that Members have a debate on how best to help those hard-pressed families that are struggling, which the Minister, Deputy Howlin, has stated this budget will be designed to assist and support. Members might consider this in the context of being obliged to make the adjustments that must be made, albeit that it is to be welcomed that the adjustments are of a much smaller order than the original amount of €3.1 billion that was being put about and certainly initially was being sought by the troika.

I ask the Leader for a debate on a subject that is quite apart from the budget, namely, the constitutional reform proposed by the Constitutional Convention. While I have asked previously for debates on the specific issues on which the convention has been reporting over the past few months, perhaps Members could have a debate broadly on constitutional reform in line with the recommendations of the convention and in anticipation that there will be a Constitution day next year on which a successive number of amendments will be put to the people by way of referendum on the issues the convention has been discussing.

David Norris (Independent)
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I seek reassurance from the Leader that the people involved in the background construction of the budget were not those who got it so disastrously wrong regarding the figures appointed for what they thought the Senate cost, because they were way out. In addition, the Government parroted some of the left-wing assertions that only 1% of the people had a vote in the Senate but as there are 200,000 people on the combined university register, this would mean there are 20 million people in this country. The Government therefore first should set out to have a look for the missing 15 million people. If this is the way the Government approaches things, I have no great confidence it will get the budget right.

Moreover, no matter what it contains, it is known there will be €2.5 billion in cuts, which again will affect the most vulnerable. There can be no rosy support for any of this because the real problem is with the major international financial institutions, the ratings agencies and the way in which the world economy is run. This was all started off by the American system in which the ratings agencies were involved with the ratings of Enron and the dishonesty there, but the world financial situation still has not been addressed at all.

Across Europe, tens of thousands of ordinary European citizens are being evicted in Spain while in Portugal, people are starving and in Britain, people are being asked to deposit food parcels at supermarkets to feed the hungry. In this country, there are soup kitchens, evictions and misery, as well as people taking their lives. I recall a meeting held in the AV room of Leinster House at which gardaí and nurses could not stop the tears flowing down their cheeks as they explained how they could not live and feed their children. This morning, I heard people on the wireless talking about feeding their children by selling their clothes at car boot sales. There is nothing here on which to congratulate oneself. It is not enough simply to be the court jester of Angela Merkel. The Germans take the view, "We're all right Jack and hump the rest of you". That is not European solidarity and the entire financial system must be addressed radically in the interests of the people.

I also seek reassurance from the Leader that, contrary to rumours in the media, the Senate will not be bypassed on certain social welfare votes through some trickery and machinations. I hope this will not happen. It was suggested it was because the Government feared a Labour Party revolt but so doing would be absolutely and utterly undemocratic.

The suggestion has been made that Mr. Peter Sutherland should be invited to the House to engage in discussion with Senators. If that happens, I hope I will be well enough to attend and give him a grilling. He is somebody who has an awful lot to answer for, including his involvement in Goldman Sachs, his entirely incorrect blatherings about the economy-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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As the Senator knows, he should not make charges against an individual who is not here to defend himself.

David Norris (Independent)
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I have a final point to make. I welcome the Government statement of intent to broaden the Seanad electorate by including graduates of all third level institutions. There is a need to examine the technical implications of that change, because it will create constituencies as large as those for elections to the European Parliament. Having said that, the proposed change is not enough. The Government also has the capacity, within legislation to effect that particular change, to democratise the electorate for the political panels. We should put down amendments to that effect in this House. We must fight not just on the university situation, but for the democratisation at the same time of the existing panels.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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Senator David Norris observed that the budget announced today will involve an adjustment of €2.5 billion, constituting both taxation measures and expenditure savings. As unpalatable as those measures will be, I am glad the Minister has not succumbed to the austerity junkies - many of them members of my own party - who are unhappy with measures amounting to €2.5 billion and instead wanted to take €3.1 billion, €3.5 billion or even €4 billion. The Minister has not been swayed by their argument, for which I am thankful.

I hope the budget includes some incentive to repatriate the €100 billion that left this country when the banks were going down the tube, the majority of it to Germany at 0%. Such an incentive would help to re-finance the banking sector so that it can resume lending and help businesses to get back on their feet. That is the best way to get people back to work and, ultimately, to restore the economy.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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The schedule for tomorrow includes No. 2 on the Order Paper, amendments made by the Dáil to the Taxi Regulation Bill 2012. We had a very useful discussion on that legislation in this House, but I am concerned that amendment No. 71 introduces draconian regulations in regard to public bus services. These include exclusive rights-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We are discussing today's business. That Bill we be debated tomorrow.

David Norris (Independent)
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Senator Barrett is suggesting that we take the Bill today.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I thank Senator Norris. My point is that it is important that we discuss these two issues separately. Today might be a little soon for that, but the fact is that proposals regarding public bus services should not be included on page 60 of a Bill dealing with the regulation of the taxi industry.

There is an urgency about this issue. The last time a similar proposal was put to the House, in 2009, the Bill in question was guillotined and sent to the then President, Mary McAleese, for immediate signature. As a consequence, direct award contracts - as opposed to competitive tendering - were implemented for five years, with those contracts set to expire in 2014. We must have an opportunity for a full debate on the future of public bus service provision, as opposed to discussing an amendment that is merely an appendage to unrelated legislative provisions. The manner in which non-competitive awards of bus contracts were given out in 2009 was most unsatisfactory. We are in danger of the same happening again and, moreover, it is being done in an underhand manner in an unrelated Bill.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That debate will take place tomorrow, and I understand the Senator has tabled several amendments. We cannot discuss tomorrow's business today.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Senators should be alerted to the fact that hidden in a Bill on taxi regulation is a draconian measure to prevent competition in the provision of public bus services.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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Following on from the point raised by Senator Marc MacSharry, it is important to bear in mind that budgets are not necessarily about cutbacks or new taxes. They are also about creating efficiencies.

Let us examine the medical budget for the ten-year period, 2000 to 2010, where the cost of drugs and pharmaceuticals went unchecked and rose from €570 million to over €1.9 billion per year. Therefore, one of the things that the Minister is now trying to tackle is getting better value for money.

I am astonished by the misinformation in the media on the medical card issue so I shall outline the real figures. Since we came to power in 2011, the number of new medical cards and GP cards issued is 253,000, as at 31 August 2013. That means that 253,000 additional people have medical cards or GP-only cards. If one adds the new figure that we are talking about today, the free GP service for under 5s, then nearly 500,000 additional people will have free access to GPs since we came into Government. Instead people have focused on austerity. Yes, some very difficult decisions have been taken but some very good decisions have also been taken-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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-----such as making sure that people have access to medical care. That is what we are doing and that is what we will do in this budget as well.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I appeal to the Leader to extend the time allotted to discuss the budget today. If he is not in a position to extend the time today then I ask that he agrees to roll over the debate until tomorrow or Thursday. I want the debate extended because it is important that every Senator in the House, from all sides, who wishes to contribute has an opportunity to do so. I do not believe that will be possible in the two hours and 15 minutes that has been provided. The Leader should extend the debate by an hour which is not a big ask. If he cannot do so then he should consider rolling it over until tomorrow or Thursday. I genuinely believe that everybody who sits in the House should have an opportunity to have his or her say on the budget.

The Minister for Finance has said that the budget will be tough. If all of the media leaks are true it will also be an unfair one, especially on young people who will again be asked to leave the country because that is what a cut means. When one cuts the dole of young people one is taking opportunities away so the only option left open to them is to leave the country. We are just short of the State and the Minister paying for the plane tickets. The cut is a recipe for more emigration and that is in addition to the 300,000 people, mainly young people, qualified people and graduates, who have left the State over the past four years.

The budget will contain all sorts of cutbacks, hidden cuts plus more visible ones. Therefore, it is incumbent on the Leader to make sure that we have a genuine debate on the budget, that we genuinely debate all of the propositions, proposals and cuts in the budget and that we have an opportunity to challenge the Minister on the cuts. I do not believe that we will have the opportunity to do so given the short period set aside for the debate. I respectfully ask the Leader to extend the time, by whatever way he sees fit, in a way that ensures that every Senator has an opportunity to speak.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Before I ask the Leader about a point, I wish to comment on points of issue raised by Senator MacSharry. First, I wish Ministers Noonan and Howlin the very best today with the budget.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Leader of the House shall respond to Senator MacSharry.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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I am responding to the Senator now.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Let him respond.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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With regard to Senator MacSharry being clairvoyant about the budget-----

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I read the newspapers. I can read.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The Senator never mentioned that the budget may contain good news about jobs.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Later Senator.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Job creation is the only way that this country will get out of the mire that we are in.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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That is spin. We need to do that tomorrow.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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It is regrettable-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Other Members have got licence so I shall comment on the following matter. I hope that the bereavement allowance is not removed. I remind Senator MacSharry that there was no bereavement allowance when his Government left the country dead and buried. We got no bereavement allowance and were financially ruined when his party left Government. There was nothing for us.

It is not often that I agree with Senator Cullinane but I join with him in asking the Leader to extend the debate this evening by an hour or something in order for people to discuss the budget in full. It is important that every Senator gets his or her say on the budget.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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In the context of the budget, there has been a lot of talk of stimuli and incentives for various sectors. This morning I heard about a report from Europe on the membership of boards, particularly the female membership of boards.

There might be a necessity for some sort of incentive or for some measure to encourage boards to have a greater proportion of women on them. I am not somebody who flies the gender equality flag and, traditionally, I was not a fan of quotas, but there clearly is a problem because only 15.8% of board members of the largest companies in the 27 EU member states are women. Ireland is below average and the percentage is growing at a much slower rate than in other states, so it is clear some sort of intervention may be required.

In addition, there are many economic advantages. According to a Credit Suisse report, which I read when researching this, companies with at least one woman on their board have outperformed the stocks of companies with no women on their boards by 26% over the past six years. Women also control 70% of global consumer spending decisions, so there would be advantages to having boards mirror the market. The European Commission is considering proposals to introduce gender quotas on boards of up to 40% by 2020. While I am not a huge fan of gender quotas, we should certainly look at this area in an effort to improve our ratings.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is a sad reality of our political process that most of the Members opposite, who are members of the Government parties, and back bench Government Deputies are reading about the budget in the newspapers. The Fourth Estate seems to be informing the legislators about what is and is not in the budget.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Daly, without interruption. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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On coming into power, this Government promised the budgetary process would be different and that it would bring it to committees, tease it out and analyse different possibilities but we are back to the same system which was in place-----

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must not have attended any Oireachtas joint committee meetings because they discussed-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Daly, without interruption. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I did not hear the Senator's comments. It seems an affront to the political process that the civil servants who draft the budget and put it before the Ministers are the ones who know what is in it. They are the ones who debate what cuts will be made. The Dáil, which will sign off on it today, will simply be rubber-stamping it and rushing it through.

I am calling for our budgetary process to begin well in advance and to be out in the open, with which I am sure the Members opposite would not disagree. We should explain to various lobby groups why certain cuts are being made rather than simply ramming them through both Houses and presenting them as a fait accompli to those who are democratically elected. Those who draft the budget, the civil servants, should be held to account in advance to the budget by all the committees. This sham where the budget is simply rammed through by the four horsemen of the apocalypse, who are running the country and who decide on the €2.5 billion cuts or €3 billion depending-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The budgetary process should begin well in advance. Not only would Members opposite and Deputies be involved in the process but so too would members of the Cabinet who are not one of the four members of what could be the Irish troika-----

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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A "troika" suggests three.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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-----and their budgets would not simply be handed to them on the day.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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This country has created 34,000 jobs in the past 12 months and I am very happy that 25% of those jobs were created in the Border region from which I come.

I congratulate a company in County Cavan, of which I am sure my colleague from County Cavan is well aware and with which I had dealings in my previous employment, namely, Wellman International, on reaching its 40th year in business in rural County Cavan where it employs 260 people from the immediate vicinity. Forty years to a community is no mean contribution and we should recognise it. The company currently employs 260 people and it has future plans to increase that number with the €5 million investment it proposes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Do you have a question for the Leader?

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I have indeed. This facility is a valued member of the Indorama Group. Getting people off the live register was a main aim of this Government and it proves that what we are doing for job creation is worthwhile.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Taoiseach's initiative announced at the weekend that he intends to extend the franchise on the university panels following on the 1979 referendum. Along with colleagues on all sides of the House over the years I could never understand why successive Governments did not act on the people's wishes. It appears the "Yes" vote at that time to extend the franchise was over 90% and, signs on, there will not be a house in the country now that will not have at least one Seanad vote just on that panel alone, which will indicate a greater empathy with this House because people will have a stake in it. I never understood why Governments did not do it but, on reflection, I came to the view that Governments generally chose to ignore this House and did not want to give it any power. When I was asked why Governments would not give it, I believed Governments did not want to give this House any more power. They were quite happy to allow it continue on the way it was.

In that context, because there seems to be some momentum in this area, I ask the Leader that the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP, would have as an agenda item the most recent report, the Mary O'Rourke report, any other report - there were discussions at the constitutional committee chaired by the late Brian Lenihan - and other relevant documentation, that it be brought together in a concise way and examined realistically in terms of what can be achieved rather than looking at the broader picture of what we would like to achieve. I ask that the committee would then in turn bring those proposals to the floor of the House for a debate to ensure that Members on all sides of the House can make a contribution on the basis of the wisdom of those Members who sit on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I know it is in the gift of the Cathaoirleach, or perhaps the Leader, to set agenda items - I am not sure of the procedures - but it would be a useful contribution to the ongoing discussion about reform. We do not have to opt for the grand design. Great oaks from little acorns grow. We could examine specific issues that could be introduced without any great upset to the political system. We have all spoken about the European dimension and I know it is impossible for this House or any house-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I suggest the Senator could write to the CPP or that his party's representative on the CPP, Senator O'Brien, might bring it forward on his behalf.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Okay, but it will be impossible for us to discuss all the directives coming out of Europe and there is a system in place already, flawed and all as it is, whereby many committees monitor EU legislation. However, I believe there is a role for some specific areas to be examined in the context of European legislation, particularly in national parliaments, where that could be operated under the yellow light system. I do not want to delay the House any further. I take on board what the Cathaoirleach has suggested.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I will not add to the speculation as to what might be in the budget. Newspapers have a job to do-----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator knows what is in it.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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-----to fill space.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Talk about leaks.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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The only thing we know for certain is that there will be an adjustment of €2.5 billion in the budget this afternoon. Obviously, there will be some good measures and some tough measures in it but I am sure it is not lost on Senator Daly and others how times have changed in terms of the calm atmosphere in the House today. Less than two and a half years ago our country was in crisis, our international reputation was in tatters and people were wondering if our banking system would survive.

Today, we are well on the road to recovery. Our finances are under control and, as Senator Brennan said, we are creating over 3,000 jobs per month. The budget, which will be announced today, will be geared to strengthen our recovery and to secure our exit from the bailout. We have a long way to go and, as other Senators have said, we need to concentrate more on job creation and accelerating its pace. Will the Leader invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, to the House for a further discussion on the jobs plan and to give us a quarterly update, so that we can have an input into it and help the Minister and the Government in their efforts to accelerate the pace of job creation? I share Senator Cullinane's concerns about the young people who are leaving our country. I hope that by the time this Government leaves office we will see people begin to come back to Ireland to take up good and meaningful jobs in a country that will be well on the road to recovery, having survived the disastrous legacy of 14 years of a previous Administration.

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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I too would like to welcome the fact that the Taoiseach indicated over the weekend that he will bring forward legislation to extend the franchise in the Seanad university elections to all universities and third level institutions. That is a very welcome first step but much more has to be done. None of us can be under any illusion that the people voted in the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad for minor tinkering or just to fix the issue with the university seats. The people voted for real and significant reform of how this House is elected and how it does its business. Anything short of that will be a sop and an insult to the electorate.

I call on the Leader to ensure that this House plays a leading role in driving forward the momentum for reform of the Seanad. The Leader played a very strong role during the campaign which must have been politically and personally very difficult for him. He represented us all very well and in a very dignified way. It is essential for this House to ensure that the momentum for reform is pushed ahead. Anyone to whom I spoke during the campaign wanted to see one citizen, one vote. It is a positive move to extend the franchise to the other universities but how do we explain to people that somebody is entitled to a vote just because they have a higher standard of education? It is a step forward to extend the vote to colleges such as Dublin City University but it is a snub to everybody else. It is essential that this House push that process forward.

There are two Bills before the House, the Quinn-Zappone Bill and the Crown Bill. I would like to see those proceed. I am very concerned about the messages coming from the Taoiseach and other Ministers over the course of the past week because they seem to see the university seats as the only focus for major change and to think that everything else should be kicked into touch. That is not necessary. We can change the electoral system by legislation and we can do that straightaway. I hope that, rather than rest on our laurels, we will respond to the real message that came from people during the course of the referendum campaign. Let this House be the one that drives forward the real reform.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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We, on this side of the House, were very happy. We had several opportunities to speak to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, coming up to the budget. I hope he has taken several of our ideas on board because it was a great opportunity for us. I hear that the newspapers today report, and I know that it is only a report, that people who spend money on their homes would receive a VAT refund. I would be very happy to see those people get a VAT refund for refurbishing their homes. It would be a good thing if that were extended to cover septic tank replacement and so on. I have been calling for this for many months and years. It would give a major boost to the construction sector.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Budget day used to be a marvellous occasion when I came into this House-----

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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When there was so much-----

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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-----until relatively recent years-----

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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-----that is why.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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-----when the financial crisis hit the country. Excuse me, a Chathaoirligh, I just want to make the point that-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Allow Senator Wilson to speak without interruption please.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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He asked for it.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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There used to be some element of mystery to it but unfortunately as a result of the leaks and spins that have occurred, especially this year, there is none. As Senator Mooney said, one need only have listened to the "News at One" to hear almost the entire budget. Surely there is a constitutional issue here. It is not that many years ago when a Minister had to resign because an official of his sent a fax before the budget was announced. That man is a senior Minister today, I am glad to say, but because of a mistake by an official in his Department he had to resign. What has changed constitutionally between then and now when journalists have access to details of the budget before democratically elected Members have an opportunity to hear them at first hand from the Minister?

I join with Senator Terry Brennan in congratulating Wellman International in Mullagh, County Cavan on celebrating 40 years in that town yesterday. The company employs 260 people in this rural part of County Cavan and has a €5 million investment programme which over the next couple of years will see the numbers employed there grow. I welcome too that 25% of the extra jobs created have been in the BMW region, particularly along the Border.

I also join Senators Mooney and Power in welcoming the Taoiseach's comments regarding the democratic decision of the people in a referendum of 1979 that the franchise for the university sector of this House should be extended to all graduates while supporting the view that this is not acceptable as the only reform required in this House. I reiterate Senator Mooney's call for the CPP to examine the O'Rourke all-party report and the legislation championed by Senators Quinn, Zappone and Crown. This House must be proactive in taking initiative on reform, rather than have it foisted upon it by the Lower House.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Taoiseach's weekend announcement that he will bring into law a decision of the people in the 1970s. I hate to disagree with my colleagues on the other side of the House but this is significant reform because it is the only reform since 1937. If it comes to pass, it will be a major step in the right direction. Of course we would all like to see a lot more reform but let us take it incrementally, step by step. At least we now know this House will survive, which we did not know some weeks ago. Let us approach reform in the right way and in consultation with the various stakeholders, particularly the people.

Today is a good day. It is unlikely to be as dramatic as the previous two budgets since I became a Member of this House. It will be a lot more steady. My only concern relates to the matter of universal payments, which I think we need to move away from. The idea of giving something to everybody under a particular age is not in my view going in the right direction or the direction in which I would like to see it go. We must target our resources at those who need them most. While it may be difficult to police and implement that approach, there are means by which it could be done. I have long advocated that the budget process should be the summing up of a period of lengthy consultation within Parliament. I credit the Leader for facilitating significant debates in the lead up to the budget this year and last year. However, we need a more formalised structure which would involve both Houses whereby each proposed change would be debated and the Minister's Budget Statement would effectively be a summary of the decisions of the finance committee and Members of the Dáil and Seanad. That seems to be what happens in other European countries and I would like to see it happen here.

I sincerely hope this political reform is included in the next programme for Government and is thereafter pursued, developed and implemented.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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Figures published at the weekend show that Irish small and medium-sized enterprises are paying three times the credit rates being charged to German companies. The focus in our discussion of today's budget must be on how we can get the economy back on an even keel, restore it to health and ensure it is competitive. Otherwise, we will endanger our ability to compete and grow in the future.

I received a letter this morning from an individual with whom I was in correspondence last year. This person, who lives in Belgium, has a son studying here in Ireland. He writes:

He [the son] entered a new flat yesterday after learning about the reality of life during one month. He got first into a flat where the day after paying the rental guarantee and first month's rental, he was told, as were all the others, by the owner that for an unforeseen reason, he [the owner] was moving and they had to empty the flat. No document had been signed and the police refused helping, arguing they needed a lawyer. It took some efforts to get the guy to refund the money and the next day, the rooms were back for rent on the Internet. My son then had to go into a youth hostel.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business seems to have turned into a wish list of what might be announced in the Minister's Budget Statement. We do not have much longer to wait.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing to wait for; we have chapter and verse on what it will contain.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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There will be no surprises if one has read the Irish Independent or The Irish Times.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I cannot legislate for what newspapers or other media suggest might be in the budget.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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They gave us everything that is in it.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I am not in the business of prejudging these matters. All the facts will be disclosed in an hour or so and we will have ample time thereafter to discuss those facts. Two and a quarter hours is more than has been allocated for many years for discussion of the budget proposals. Both the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill and the Finance Bill will come before the House by the middle or end of November, giving more than ample time in the coming weeks to discuss budgetary measures.

Senator Ivana Bacik called for a debate on progress towards the introduction of universal health care. I will bring that matter to the attention of the Minister for Health. The Senator also called for a debate on constitutional reform, with specific reference to the Constitutional Convention. I will try to arrange a debate on proceedings at the convention in early course.

Senator David Norris referred to the forthcoming debate on the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill. I hope to have a discussion in the next week or so with the group leaders in regard to the timing of that debate.

Senator Tom Sheahan referred to certain budgetary measures. As I said, I do not propose to comment on those matters. We must wait and see.

I assure Senator Sean Barrett that I have no intention of guillotining the debate tomorrow on the Taxi Regulation Bill 2012. I note his point regarding the provision of public bus services, which I am sure he will elaborate on in the course of the debate.

Senator Colm Burke outlined the position regarding medical cards. I have already addressed the point regarding timing, as raised by Senators Pat O'Neill and David Cullinane.

Senator Noone called for more women to be appointed to State boards and the boards of private companies. I note the Senator's points in that regard.

Senators Daly and Conway expressed views on the budgetary process. On Senator Daly's contribution, it is the first I have heard that four members could make up a troika. I am glad the Senator is not drawing up the budget.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Did the Leader not see my tongue in my cheek? He must have lost his sense of humour. I can count to three alright.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Diarmuid Wilson congratulated Wellman International, which employs approximately 260 people, on providing employment for 40 years. Companies such as Wellman International form the backbone of the economy.

Senator Paschal Mooney referred to the 1979 referendum, under which the franchise in Seanad elections was to be extended to all graduates. Senator Averil Power also raised this issue. The implementation of the referendum result would be welcomed. On the points raised by Senator Mooney, the Oireachtas Library and Research Service has brought together the various reports on Seanad reform as well as the legislation produced by Senators Zappone, Quinn and Crown. People want reform of the House. Having spoken to the Taoiseach, he is anxious to come to the House to address the issue of reform, on which he would welcome all suggestions. I assure Senators that this exchange of views will take place in the near future. I hope that, when the Taoiseach comes before us, they will confine their remarks to the reform agenda that people are correctly anxious to have implemented.

Senator Comiskey referred to the possibility of introducing a VAT refund for the construction industry. We must await the detail of the budget to find out if it contains such a measure.

Senator Wilson described budget days of yore as great occasions in the House. It was easy to have great budget days when the only decision needed was how much money to spend or squander.

Senator Quinn stated the purpose of the budget should be to return competitiveness to the economy. I also note the Senator's point on the problems students are experiencing in finding property to rent. This matter should be addressed.

I will conclude and suspend the House until 4.45 p.m. Having rehearsed the debate on the budget on the Order of Business, we can discuss the facts when we resume.