Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 - Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and adjourn not later than 8 p.m., with the contributions of all Senators not to exceed ten minutes.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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On a point of order, I do not believe the Leader is in order in specifying the time permitted for each speech under Standing Orders. I raise this point having asked last week that we have the same amount of time per speaker on Second Stage as was allowed in the Dáil, which I believe was 20 minutes. Like others here, I do not intend to engage in any long-winded contributions or filibustering on the Bill, but it appears-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is a matter for the Leader to propose and the House to decide.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I might ask for your ruling on this issue, a Chathaoirligh. The relevant Standing Order is Standing Order 16 which establishes the right of the Leader to propose, at the commencement of public business, the business for each sitting day and the order in which it shall be taken. It is true that in the Dáil the Taoiseach may propose speaking time limits, but the Leader does not have the authority to do so. While the practice may have developed that the House acquiesces in that regard, it is not in order.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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There is a long-standing precedent in the House that the Leader proposes the Order of Business and the arrangements to be made which are agreed to and adopted by the House.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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It is not in Standing Orders.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It does not have to be. There is a long-standing precedent.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I believe you are referring to-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I am ruling on this issue now. The Leader is proposing time limits and it is up to the House to agree and decide on the matter.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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The Leader ought to table a formal motion on the Order Paper to be taken in the normal way-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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As I explained to the Senator, there is a long-standing precedent in the House.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I ask you, out of respect for the Standing Orders of this House, to take time to consider this matter, rather than just rule off the cuff.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have to go on precedent also. There is a long-standing precedent in the House that the Leader proposes time limits which are agreed to. It is up to the House to decide. It may not agree with what the Leader is proposing, but that is a matter for it. The Leader is proposing certain time limits for certain debates. It is up to the House to decide-----

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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The Leader is not the Taoiseach. Standing Orders of the Dáil specifically provide that the Taoiseach may do so, but our Standing Orders do not provide for the Leader to do so. How can the Cathaoirleach rely on mere custom and practice? Is that not bringing our Standing Orders into disrepute and showing them disrespect?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I am not bringing Standing Orders into disrepute. I am ruling in accordance with long-standing precedent. The Leader has made a proposal and it is up to the House to decide on it.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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In that case, I propose to seek to amend the Order of Business.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I will be calling the Senator later.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is welcome that the Leader has set a time limit on the debate on Second Stage in order to ensure it concludes at a specific time and will resume tomorrow. I have a degree of sympathy for Senator Rónán Mullen on the amount of time given per speaker on Second Stage, but that issue could be dealt with by way of an amendment to the Order of Business if the Senator wishes to table one.

On behalf of the Fianna Fáil group, I welcome to the Chamber the ambassador of El Salvador, Mr. Werner Matías Romero, who is very welcome. We look forward to working with him. As the President is due to visit El Salvador later in the year, it is a pleasure to have the ambassador here today.

On successive days in the past three weeks I have asked for time to be set aside to debate the new statutory code of conduct on mortgage arrears. I will again table an amendment today that one hour be set aside for the Minister for Finance to come to the House to discuss the new code.

I have stated time and again that the situation has now reached crisis point. One in four mortgages are either in arrears or have been restructured. My request to the Leader relates to the Central Bank pilot scheme to help debtors. Only three weeks ago the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, had agreed to work with the Central Bank on the pilot scheme. I note from media reports yesterday and today that MABS has pulled out of the scheme. The pilot scheme was to deal with 750 households in difficulty with both private and mortgage debt. It is concerning that MABS has now pulled out of the scheme. I understand the Central Bank is now looking for other interested bodies, specifically an English debt management agency, to participate.

I do not believe this is the way a pilot scheme should be run. Certainly, I am of the view that MABS has the expertise, experience and knowledge to work on the scheme. The Leader may not have the answer here this afternoon but what I really want to know is why MABS has decided to pull out of the scheme. Has the Minister for Finance been advised by the Central Bank on the reason the Money Advice and Budgeting Service has withdrawn from the pilot scheme? I am asking because if it is down to resources with MABS or the composition of the pilot scheme, then it is concerning. There may be another reason but either way we are entitled to know. Effectively, this means the pilot scheme on debt relief and working through debt management plans for citizens has now stalled. The pilot scheme has stalled and is not running now.

We have not been allowed to debate the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, which is open season on those in mortgage arrears. Many Members on the Government side share my concerns. All I am asking for, in the time we have left in this session, is to set aside one hour for the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to come to the House. Perhaps he could set me right about why I should support the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears and maybe he could.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please conclude.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I will conclude. The fact that we are not even allowed to debate it and that the Minister will not come to the House to debate it is most concerning. Every day this week and until next week, as I did last week and the week before, I intend to table amendments to the Order of Business in this regard. I realise the Leader is trying his best. I appreciate that and I am not trying to be difficult, but this is too important. The House should not rise without a debate or discussion on the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears. I thank you for your indulgence, A Chathaoirligh.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will you clarify your position in respect of the amendment to the Order of Business?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The amendment is the same as those I tabled every day last week. My amendment relates to the Minister for Finance coming to the House today for one hour to discuss the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears.