Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to discuss the issue I have raised today, the issue of visitor access from China and the visa regime for Chinese visitors.

Over the past few years, great emphasis has been put by the current Government and the previous government on improving relations with China and on the effort to encourage more Chinese people to visit this country as tourists, students or to make business investments. I know some efforts have been made to change the visa regime, which has for a long time caused difficulties for Chinese people who wanted to visit Ireland.

Unfortunately, better systems in the United Kingdom have the consequence of putting people off from coming here, reducing investment in the country and tourist numbers. Efforts have been made to reform the system and there has been much bilateral contact between Ireland and China, to which the Cathaoirleach recently led a delegation, of which my colleague, Deputy Dara Calleary, was part. Some work has been done to change some of the more restrictive systems and make sure Chinese visitors to the United Kingdom are able to travel onwards to Ireland without applying separately. However, there is still huge room for improvement. Up to 2 million Chinese tourists visit Europe each year, of whom only 10,000 come to Ireland. Given the attractiveness of this country, its sites and the rave reviews, it is a shame more visitors do not come here. In a poll in The China PostChinese visitors who had visited Ireland rated it the most attractive destination in Europe.

I understand there are difficulties with the visa regime which put people off. Chinese nationals living in Ireland have difficulty in arranging for family members to visit them. I was recently contacted by a Chinese businesswoman who runs a business in Drumcondra. She has been here for 11 years and has an Irish passport, as do her husband and children, yet she has difficulty in arranging for her parents to visit her and see their grandchildren. They are retired and have sufficient resources to travel anywhere in the world and would like to see their grandchildren in Ireland. However, every time they wish to do so, they must go through a cumbersome visa application process involving many documents and delays while waiting for an answer. Just because one has been approved once does not mean the same will happen the second time. This causes difficulties in booking flights, making arrangements and knowing the dates they will be in Ireland.

I have written to the Minister for Justice and Equality and the immigration office about the case. I know the Minister of State cannot comment on individual cases, but I wanted to highlight the general difficulty because Ireland has a huge Chinese population. We need to look at the arrangements made in other countries to make it easier for family visitors to come to visit family members and children who live in Ireland or for people to come as tourists and spend money here. People applying for visas are well able to look after themselves and will make a major economic contribution here for a few weeks. We should be doing everything possible to encourage them to come here. We need a robust immigration system, but it appears to be overly cumbersome, which is a shame. I ask the Minister of State to impress on the Minister the need to address these points.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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I am grateful to the Senator for raising this issue. It gives me an opportunity, on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, to update the House on the numerous positive developments that have taken place in the Irish visa regime since the Government came to power and, in particular, developments in respect of visitors from China.

The commitment of the Government to the facilitation and growth in the number of visits to Ireland from China is shown by the fact that the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service of the Department maintains a dedicated visa office in Beijing. In general, business visas are processed within two to five working days of receipt of applications, while visit visa applications for Chinese nationals are processed within one to three weeks. The approval rate for visa applications lodged in China for travel to Ireland is 95%, which compares favourably internationally. Application guidelines for all visa categories are published on the Irish Embassy website in English and Chinese. Applications for visas for Ireland are made online using a user-friendly web-based form. This is in contrast with many visa regimes which require the completion of lengthy paper application forms.

There is no evidence that the visa process is a barrier to tourist, business or family visits from China to Ireland. In fact, the latest report of the European Tour Operators Association which examined the effect of visa obligations on tourists from India and China covering the year 2010 showed that the figure for cancellations owing to perceived visa delays reflected very favourably on Ireland, with only 15% of clients reporting cancellations, as against 21% for the Schengen area and 24% for the United Kingdom. This demonstrates that Ireland is not at a disadvantage against its main competitors owing to any issue with perceived delays in visa processing. The Minister is advised that the checking procedures and processes in place are at least on a par with those in the United Kingdom, with which we share a common immigration area, and less onerous than those in place for many other EU member states. Of far greater impact on both tourist and business visits is the lack of a direct air link between the two countries. If the Senator has a particular case in mind or has suggestions to further improve the situation, while maintaining sensible immigration checks, the Minister would be glad to receive them.

The Minister launched the short stay visa waiver programme, the first of its kind in the history of the State, on 1 July 2011. This allows visitors or business people, including those from China, who have lawfully entered the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, on a valid UK visa to travel on to Ireland without the requirement to obtain an Irish visa. CSO figures for the numbers of trips by Chinese nationals to Ireland show that there was a 24% increase in the 12 months following the introduction of the waiver programme compared to the 12 months before. This demonstrates the positive impact of the Government's initiative.

With effect from 1 August 2012, a more liberal multi-entry visa regime for business travellers and other visitors was implemented in the Irish visa office in Beijing. The regime has been extended to regular family visitors with a good immigration history. The Minister has asked his officials to examine how this regime could be further developed. In recognition of the growing number of affluent and independent tourists from China, a scheme to enable independent Chinese travellers to come to Ireland was introduced in November 2011. The category was formally launched by the Taoiseach during the course of his official visit to China in April 2012. The visa application requirements for independent tourists are minimal and I am informed that Tourism Ireland has welcomed this initiative. This category of visa application is processed within ten working days.

With regard to Chinese nationals visiting Ireland for study purposes, in 2012 a pilot programme in respect of English language study was developed jointly between the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service and Marketing English in Ireland, the umbrella body for English language schools, for the Chinese market. The programme seeks to target high quality, motivated English language students and aims to develop the market in a sustainable way. The programme is designed to significantly contribute to the development of Ireland's reputation as a premier destination for Chinese students to achieve a high standard in English language education. The programmes are at an early stage and it is important that they be given sufficient time to grow and develop before a final review is undertaken. However, progress under these programmes is reviewed on an ongoing basis.

All of these positive developments must be balanced against protecting the country's vital national interests by maintaining an effective immigration regime, which is a feature of all visa regimes worldwide. All visa applications must be assessed carefully to determine, as far as possible, that applicants will abide by the conditions of their visas and will not become a burden on the State. These concerns apply most pertinently in cases where elderly relatives are seeking to visit their relations in Ireland, a common feature of visa applications from China. Such applications are not straightforward and present difficult issues that all countries must address. Nevertheless, the 95% approval rate for visa applications from China demonstrates that the checks and safeguards in place allow, in the long run, for the vast majority of persons seeking to visit their relatives to do so.

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality. It is welcome that a new, more liberal multi-entry visa system was put in place last year and that the Minister will examine how we can develop it further.

I appreciate that it is new, so there are probably some teething problems in rolling it out. As I said, I have written to the Minister to provide details of the individual case I am referring to. I will follow that up. It is important for us to facilitate as much as possible bona fide visitors who can afford to look after themselves. They should be able to visit. We should not make it overly cumbersome for them to do so. I appreciate the opportunity to have this debate. I note that there have been many positive developments over the past couple of years. Indeed, the last Government put a great deal of effort into improving relations with China. I ask the Government to prioritise the few aspects of this matter that remain to be addressed.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Senator. As I said in my initial reply, we have a very vibrant Chinese community in this country. They are very industrious people. When I come here every morning, I pass through a part of the city that is rapidly becoming Dublin's Chinatown. Most cities in Europe and other parts of the world have a Chinatown. A number of initiatives in this area have been introduced by the present Government and its predecessor. They are monitored regularly and constantly to see if there is room for improvement. All of this work is leading to better understanding and co-operation between two ancient countries, Ireland and China. I am absolutely delighted that the Taoiseach and others have been to China. The leader of China has been here as well. There are cultural, educational and language exchanges between the two countries. There are many positives in this respect.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It means there will not be a second vote.

David Norris (Independent)
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That is if Senator Quinn's amendment is accepted.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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If the question is carried.

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes, that is fine. That means the Bill will be delayed.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The question is, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main question." Is that agreed?

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I am lost.

David Norris (Independent)
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Do Senators want to vote for Senator Quinn’s amendment?

John Crown (Independent)
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On a point of information, I am totally confused. I do not know what we are voting on. The Cathaoirleach needs to take a minute to explain this.

David Norris (Independent)
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It is a question of whether Senators want to vote for Senator Feargal Quinn's amendment.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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For the information of the House, under Standing Order 119, the question to be put to the House on amendment No. 1, which is being proposed by Senator Feargal Quinn, is, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main question." If that question is carried, the Bill will be declared read a Second Time.

David Norris (Independent)
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If the amendment is defeated, we get another vote.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Yes. That is a different question.

David Norris (Independent)
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If we vote for Senator Quinn’s amendment and it is accepted, we will have succeeded in deferring the referendum for three months.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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No.

David Norris (Independent)
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If it fails, we can vote again. Is that right?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The question is-----

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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On a point of order, do I, the proposer of the amendment, vote "Yes" or "No"?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I cannot possibly say which way the Senator should vote.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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What if the Senator wants to accept his own amendment?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The effect of a "Yes" vote is that the Bill will be read a Second Time.

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes.

John Crown (Independent)
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Unamended. Therefore, we are voting "No".

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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As it is. The effect of-----

David Norris (Independent)
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That is not what the Cathaoirleach said the first time.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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On a point of order to assist the House, the purpose of Senator Quinn’s amendment, as I read it, is to ensure the Bill will not be read a Second Time until 17 September.

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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If the amendment is passed, the Bill will not be deemed read a Second Time.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Under Standing Order 119, the question on an amendment to Second Stage of a Bill is, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main question." If the question is carried, the Bill is declared read a Second Time.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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One a point of order, Senator Quinn’s amendment seeks to defer the Second Stage reading of the Bill.

David Norris (Independent)
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Of course it does.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Therefore, if the amendment is passed, the Bill-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Standing Orders define the questions I put in the House. We must put the question to the House under Standing Order 119. The question is, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main question." Those in favour, say "Tá".

David Norris (Independent)
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What about the following? The amendment is very clear. It is not just deleting but actually deleting and substituting. Why can we not address this amendment?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We are.

David Norris (Independent)
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We are not, because the Cathaoirleach has left out a substantial portion of it.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I am putting the question again. I ask Senator Norris to resume his seat. The question is, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main question."

David Norris (Independent)
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No. I demand a proper explanation. The Cathaoirleach is refusing to put a legitimate question.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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At 2.30 p.m. next Tuesday.