Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
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It is fitting that I am the next speaker, given that I come from County Galway. I welcome Senator Craven. It is a great honour to have her visit the Seanad to listen to our debate, which has been quite lively thus far.

I want to raise a troubling matter which has raised its head in today's newspaper. It relates to a number of banks which have been contacting customers who have tracker mortgages. These banks are now trying to induce these customers into using their savings to make higher payments on their mortgages. However, the banks in this scenario are not coming to this with clean hands. It has been well reported in the past that the banks are losing a vast amount of money on tracker mortgages and it is clear that any steps that are being taken by the banks are to benefit themselves, not their customers. For that reason, I am genuinely fearful their customers will be duped. Any alteration in the terms and conditions of a contract between the bank and its consumer could result in the customer prejudicing himself or herself and his or her position, and I would urge customers to get independent legal advice before they do anything further in this regard.

Moreover, as we all will be aware, the property market is improving, with a 12% increase in prices recorded in Dublin recently. The reality is that as time goes on the value of houses will increase and the mortgage repayments will decrease due to inflation. This will undoubtedly put mortgage holders in a good position. I would certainly urge those mortgage holders who have tracker mortgages to consider this before taking any rash action.

No doubt the banks are using their significant influence and unequal bargaining power to put customers under duress and to do what they want to do-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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And the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears that the Government brought in.

Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
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-----but this is quite clearly a breach of contract, a breach of duty and a breach of the Central Bank's code of conduct. It is completely unacceptable.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is presided over by the Government Senator Higgins supports.

Lorraine Higgins (Labour)
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The reality is the banks took a gamble in offering tracker mortgages some time ago, this has not worked out and they are attempting to shift the goalposts. I would say to those on tracker mortgages that the banks must live with this situation and it is very much a commercial reality. In the circumstances, I ask that the Minister for Finance come to the House to debate this matter further because it is a serious issue when the banks of Ireland are using their influence to get customers to change their mortgage terms and conditions.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I appeal for the Cathaoirleach's indulgence in advance.

I ask the Leader to consider asking the Taoiseach for an immediate criminal investigation of the Anglo Irish Bank tapes. As a finance spokesman in this House, for what little input I would have had, I, for one, would be quite happy to co-operate with any inquiry, be it by the Garda or anybody else. In fact, I would prefer to talk to the Garda because some kind of witch hunt in the committees here could prejudice criminal investigations and affect the outcome for which the public yearn, which is genuine prosecutions in this area. I would advise the Taoiseach to bring in the Garda Commissioner, tell him he has until next Easter, ask him what expertise we need to procure on his behalf and whether he needs additional personnel, and let us see tangible results. I notice that Senator Bacik agrees with me. In that matter, let us then move on to other things. If there are tapes in Boston College that implicate Members of these Houses in murder, or if there are tapes in other institutions that would implicate, frankly, the Taoiseach, members of the Government, former members of the Government or other members of that party in wrongdoing in terms of handing out mobile phone licences, then so be it also.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I join my colleague, the leader of the Opposition, in calling yet again for a debate on the mortgage arrears crisis. Since 2009, many of us in these Houses have been calling for such debates. The Leader has heard it from his own side in detail today. As the House will be aware, the Taoiseach is in Strasbourg today to take a bow for the implementation and delivery of Chancellor Merkel's plan for Irish recovery, the three pillars of which, he stated, were stability, jobs and growth. While the Taoiseach might get the douze points from the European leaders, I am afraid the people of Ireland have seen nothing of jobs, stability and growth. As Senator Darragh O'Brien pointed out and as Senator Higgins correctly underlined, we see that Ireland has capitulated entirely to the banks. This time we do not need any tapes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is Senator MacSharry supporting the amendment?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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It is on the airwaves. The Taoiseach has handed everything to them.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is Senator MacSharry supporting the amendment?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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The new code of conduct gives all the power to the banks. You will lose your tracker mortgage; you will lose everything.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry can make those points during the debate.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Over the next number of months, I will introduce yet more legislation to this House which will be based on what the people want.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry is way over time. I call Senator Coghlan.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Something that represents the people. We do not want to be the whipping boy for Angela over in Frankfurt-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry is away over time.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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-----but something that represents the Irish people.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry has made his point.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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The Phoenix must have been right.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Another sterling performance.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Paul Coghlan.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I refer to Senator MacSharry's colleague. I have never been populist. I am sure Senator Leyden was well able to handle those Anglo Irish Bank tapes while he was in Strasbourg. We should remember, despite all of their contribution to the mess this country is in, that none of its representatives was present on the night of the bank guarantee.

I agree fully with Senator Comiskey on the Presidency. By any measure one cares to apply, it was more than reasonably successful. It is proper that the Taoiseach is in Strasbourg to address the EU Parliament today. As ever, I admire Senator Darragh O'Brien and his ability to jump on an issue.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is going well for three or four years.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I can travel some of the road with the Senator. We discussed this here the last day.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Coghlan has lost his way.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I have not lost my way yet. Senator MacSharry should examine his own conscience. Respectfully, there is an element of misinterpretation, which is why we should hear the Minister. As the Leader said the last day, we should take a little time. We need balance in all matters and must be calm. We cannot have a properly functioning economy without the banks, whether we like it or not. Of course, they must be made to feel some of the pain. They contributed a great deal to making so much money available, often with little or no security. It is part of the reason that we are where we are. To allow the criminal investigations to proceed expeditiously is what is important. On foot of the behaviour we have seen, politicians are not the ones who should lead in this context. The DPP and Garda should get on with it.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Hopefully, they have enough under their belts to proceed. Certain cases have been initiated although they will not be heard until next year. The DPP and Garda should be encouraged. If the Chamber must have some dialogue with them, I encourage the Leader to consider the matter.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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To follow what others have said on the Anglo Irish Bank tapes, I was astounded to hear the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, suggest on Sunday that he would be willing to contemplate re-running the referendum on Oireachtas committees of inquiry. The people gave their clear answer on that matter and deemed that politicians were not the appropriate persons to carry out investigations of this kind. I wonder what the fixation among some elements of the Government is with that. Perhaps it is to distract the nation and politicians with a banking inquiry when the real and important work must be done by the Garda and the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement.

I acknowledge the good work which has been done by the Government during the Presidency. I am loth to congratulate the Taoiseach, however, on the very day that the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill comes to a vote in the House. The person I congratulate is Matt Lyons, a member of Sligo County Council who, to borrow Deputy Creighton's words, stepped outside the groupthink and led the local authority to vote its disapproval of dangerous and unjust legislation which, for the first time, targets the life of innocent children.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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It would be a shame if that were not our focus on this dark day in politics. It is an indictment.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Can I acknowledge Leitrim County Council?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I acknowledge Leitrim County Council also. It is very notable that, nationally, many local representatives from the Government parties have expressed their concern on this issue. It is the party leaderships of Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Labour Party and Fine Gael who have driven an agenda-----

John Gilroy (Labour)
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And the Constitution.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mullen, without interruption. Does Senator Mullen have a question for the Leader?

John Gilroy (Labour)
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And the Supreme Court.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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-----to activate a controversial interpretation of our constitutional protection for the unborn. It is no exaggeration to say that the Irish people have never mandated that controversial decision, however people might pretend otherwise.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Mullen have a question for the Leader?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Does the Leader agree with me on what journalist Stephen Collins raised today? Mr. Collins wrote "Whether it is the restrictive piece of legislation the Taoiseach and his Ministers insist, or whether it will allow for a more liberal abortion regime, only time will tell". Does the Leader agree that it is too serious a question to leave to time and that we should not be going down this road at all?

Marie Moloney (Labour)
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County Kerry recorded the highest rate of suicide in the country between 2009 and 2011. Yesterday, the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, launched the Kerry suicide response plan.

It was developed by the Kerry suicide response forum, a HSE-led inter-agency partnership of over 30 statutory community and voluntary groups to address suicide and promote suicide prevention in Kerry. The main objective of the group is to address the prevalence of death by suicide and early detection of suicide clusters occurring in the Kerry area. The Kerry suicide response forum utilises the best practice guidelines, a close observation unit and community training, and practical services are being put in place in response to the problem. The group has also put in place response units that bring together nurses, community workers, clergy and gardaí in the larger towns. They have been set up to respond quickly in the event of death by suicide and to provide help for the bereaved. The high rate of suicide cannot be highlighted enough, nor can we debate suicide prevention enough. With that in mind, I call on the Leader to organise a debate on suicide. As Kerry has led the way in highlighting a response to suicide, I ask that the response be incorporated into the debate.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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We are all dependent on mobile phone technology and it is time to have a debate on the subject, if the Leader can organise it, with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte. There are ongoing complaints about the quality of service in the south west, particularly in Kerry, Limerick and north Cork. Anyone who commutes from Kerry to Dublin by car on the motorway or by train finds pockets where there is no signal. The major business consortiums that were fortunate enough to succeed in getting licences by hook or by crook all seem to be giving their patrons the runaround. Individuals who complain are told it is a minor fault and when the media contact the companies they say there was a minor hiatus and that it will be sorted out next week. It never is. That needs to be examined.

In response to Senator Mullen, I have the greatest respect for everyone on both sides of the argument. I came into the office this morning to do a bit of work and I spent nearly an hour and a half trying to clean my machine of e-mails and letters, mostly from people asking me to oppose the Bill. People have the right to protest but I appeal to Senator Mullen and the other protagonists on that side of the argument to appeal to the more extreme elements, who seem to be on their side, to stop sending obscene pictures and photographs-----

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Senator O'Sullivan should stop slurring the majority with the actions of a few loons.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I ask him to ask them to stop sending me and others sacred pictures and depictions that I regret I have to destroy. The most recent one was someone purporting to send me a letter directly from the Virgin Mary. In the interest of fairness, it is time Senator Mullen called these people off.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Senator O'Sullivan is blaming people who are not to blame. This is distracting from the issue.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Regarding the point made by Senator Ned O'Sullivan, a tiny minority is sending that appalling material. It does no one any justice and it does no favours to the Roman Catholic Church, which is struggling to try to deal with issues of child sexual abuse, to have a small minority hogging our e-mails and our post. Some of the material is appalling.

The Central Bank code of conduct was issued to banks last Thursday. I read through it over the weekend and it astounded me. It is a step in the wrong direction, a step backwards rather than a step forwards. It does not have at its heart the interests of the genuine, hard-pressed struggling people who are trying to hold onto their homes. The Central Bank should be ashamed of itself and if I had a copy of the code here I would tear it up. Banks are now permitted to hound people, hunt people and ring people as often as they like-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I will get to it.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator supporting the amendment?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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It is totally frustrating to see the Central Bank release the handcuffs on these financial institutions. Will the Leader schedule a debate specifically on the code of conduct to ensure the bank reflects what the Government and the people want?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator would have it today if he supported me.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I will not support the amendment because it is political opportunism. I am calling for a measured and meaningful debate on the code of conduct, which should be reviewed after three months.

John Crown (Independent)
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On a grey and overcast day, it may not seem appropriate to raise the issue of skin cancer, which is a topic I am seem somewhat obsessed with. However, because I see on a daily basis tragedies that result from late diagnosis of skin cancers, I was extremely distressed when one of my dermatology colleagues called during the past week to mark my card about a procedure in the HSE's special delivery unit which will have negative consequences for the delivery of care and which must be seen as a mechanism for obscuring the true scope of the deficiencies in our health system. I stand to be corrected on this and I would be grateful if the Leader could get clarification from the Minster for Health. The State has 30 dermatologists but the old Comhairle na nOispidéal recommended many years ago that we should have 45, which equates to one per 100,000 of population. The UK ratio is one per 60,000, which is one of the lowest in Europe. Even if this recommendation was fully implemented, we would have one dermatologist or skin specialist per 100,000 of population, which would still be among the lowest in Europe. Between 1998 and 2008, the incidence of potentially lethal malignant melanoma in this country doubled from 400 to 800 per year while the number of potentially fatal cases also doubled from approximately 100 to 200 per year. How are we dealing with this problem?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

John Crown (Independent)
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Yes. The special delivery unit is dear to the Minister's heart. It has sent instructions to outpatient clinics around the country, including dermatology departments, where traditionally we have absurd waiting lists of up to a year. It is much more than a year in some parts of the country, particularly outside Dublin. However, the SDU has told staff in outpatient scheduling divisions to no longer notify patients who have been on a waiting list for more than six months what the date of their appointment will be. Instead, they are to write a letter noting that the patient is seeking an appointment and stating that closer to the date he or she will be given a date for the appointment. The net effect of this is that people are in an amorphous area until a few months before the appointment, which is perhaps a year hence-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.

John Crown (Independent)
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-----and are told only two months beforehand that they have an appointment. This makes it look as if the waiting list is only two months long. It is a fudge. Will the Leader seek clarification from the Minister about what is going in the SDU? The unit is massaging the statistics and, instead of dealing with the problem, which is the shortage of skin doctors who can diagnose early skin cancers, we are attempting to obscure the truth in the matter.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I concur with Senator O'Sullivan's remarks about receiving offensive e-mail and text messages from people.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I received through my mobile phone a disgusting YouTube video from a man calling himself a concerned Christian. I e-mailed him back and said: "Don't dare do that again because I have a 9 year old daughter who has access to that phone". It is a despicable type of promotion.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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The church has not come out and told people to stop doing this. I have to say, as a practising Catholic, that the church must do that. Other Members have daughters and sons who are minors or toddlers who could be subject to this, which is tantamount to intimidation.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to come to the House to discuss the rates base and the rates levied on small businesses? I heard a discussion about this on local radio earlier.

He made the valid point that the household charge takes some of the pressure off local authorities in raising rates for small businesses. Why should a small corner shop pay €3,000 or €4,000 in rates per year when the man who has a house worth €2 million and has six or seven bathrooms claims he should not be paying a property tax even though he is using more services than that shop? The small corner shop is the cornerstone of the community and will lead the way out of this economic mess. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government should put together a package for the small business operator who is struggling to pay rates. Consequently, the local authority is struggling to provide services. There should be a method similar to that which exists in other countries. Perhaps the Minister could be invited to the House to discuss this.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Norris on the human rights of Edward Snowden. In 1971, Daniel Ellsberg, who was also a government employee, leaked the Pentagon papers. When he had returned from serving in Vietnam he worked for the Rand Corporation. He leaked what became known as the Pentagon papers and highlighted how we had been deceived about the war in Vietnam. It is an embarrassing and horrific story and was the result of public relations by the United States Government at the time. I believe that Edward Snowden is also a decent honest person, who is fearless. He leaked what the United States surveillance is doing around the world. The United States surveillance on European countries cannot be ignored. We stood by when rendition flights were going through Shannon. As a small country, Ireland should stand up for the human rights of this man. He cannot apply for asylum in Ireland as he must be in this country to do so. However, people are raising thousands of pounds to get him a flight out of Russia so he can get to another country. Daniel Ellsberg is a hero today in the United States.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator seconding the amendment?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I am.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is urgent and important that we have a debate on the new mortgage code of conduct before the summer recess. Anything that threatens people's homes must be fully scrutinised and debated in this House. That is our job. The Irish people have lost enough. To say that the revelations in the Anglo Irish Bank tapes have angered the public is an understatement. We must give people a hand here. If this mortgage code of conduct will not help them to hold onto their homes, we must act for them and ensure they keep them. Let us have that debate before the summer recess.

With regard to the Anglo Irish Bank tapes, the Minister for Finance must make a clear statement on the current position with the prosecutions by the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, of people who caused the collapse and perhaps covered up matters. Second, he should make a clear statement on the banking inquiry. Will the two run in parallel? We need more facts. I am not concerned about the truth in this issue. The Irish people deserve the truth and so does the world. As a nation, we are big enough and have enough self esteem for the truth. If this information must leak out, so be it. I also believe that what is on those tapes is contemptuous, but we should not worry about that. Let us get to the truth and, above all, let things happen in a timely fashion. The evidence has been with the Director of Corporate Enforcement and the DPP for almost four years but, to date, there has been no action. If it is due to a lack of resources, let us pump them into this. The Irish people want and deserve justice in this matter.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Táim chun glaoch arís ar an gCeannaire maidir le cúrsaí baint móna mar sílim go bhfuil sé fíor thábhachtach go mbeadh díospóireacht againn.

I called for a debate on turf cutting on a number of occasions. I note the statement of Senator Whelan which I feel was very one-sided and ill thought through. It is very strange, as he stood on a stage in Camross before the budget and said he would defend turf cutters to the end. This is a very big issue. The Leader told me he thinks the law is very clear on this issue but I do not agree, with all due respect.

I bothered to go to the Commission and meet the assistant commissioner on this issue in an effort to seek a resolution. We were told by the assistant commissioner in Brussels that the basis for any resolution of the issue was in the TCCA's proposals on the 53 raised bogs in the State. Since then the Department has not engaged with the TCCA. There have been stand offs and will be more.

The turbary, property and constitutional rights people have to cut turf are not clear in terms of designations. We need to have a debate with the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, in a very measured way in order that we can tease these issues out. If the Minister is wrong there could be a massive bill for the State if the matter ends up in the courts. None of us want to see that happen. We all want a proper resolution. I again call on the Leader to ask the Minister to come before the House in order that we can tease out these issues.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I draw attention to the publication yesterday of the independent review on child neglect cases in Roscommon, Waterford and south Dublin and express my concern at some of the findings. It was reported children were left without a social worker despite reports of neglect. Some 96 cases were reviewed involving more than 300 children. I find it alarming that only 45 out of the 96 cases were deemed to have adequate safeguards in place. Further intervention was found to be required in 29 cases and 17 required immediate action.

It is extremely worrying that the report found official reports compiled by social workers were not sufficiently evidence based and concerns expressed by teachers and communications with parents were not taken into consideration. I hope recommendations for better safeguards for children and greater interdepartmental communication and dialogue with the Judiciary on legal interventions to protect these children will be taken into consideration.

I ask the Leader to ask the Minister to come before the House. This is a very serious issue. At a time when we are all concerned about children and child protection the Minister should come here to answer questions on the HSE response to the findings and why the report was published yesterday despite being completed in April 2012.

John Whelan (Labour)
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It is still the practice of the House, under protection of the Chair, not to cite, name someone or make accusations against someone who is not present in the Chamber and who has no right to reply? I have been grossly wrongly represented by Senator Ó Clochartaigh who made an accusation that I went to a public meeting in Camross and said I would I would defend people to the death. No such meeting took place.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I did not hear what Senator Ó Clochartaigh said. The record of the House speaks for itself.

John Whelan (Labour)
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I mean no disrespect to the Cathaoirleach but I would like to correct the record. I am sorry to interrupt but when someone's back is turned that is not good parliamentary practice.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator O'Brien's proposal on the need to discuss the banking situation. The President, Michael D. Higgins, this week referred to the lack of value placed on Irish society and the lack of values bankers hold, and I agree with those sentiments.

The manner in which Irish bankers have treated the Irish people is disgraceful. They have raped the Irish taxpayer. The fact that the current Government knew about the Anglo Irish Bank tapes for some time is beyond belief. Why was there no action on the tapes before they were released to the media? Why has the Minister for Justice and Equality not stepped up to the mark?

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, should come to the House to explain what exactly is being done in regard to the Anglo tapes. He should likewise explain what is happening with the Lowry tapes which are being left to one side, apparently because of amnesia on the Government's part.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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It is Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill who seems to have amnesia.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader might comment on that issue.

I also call on the Leader to arrange a debate with the Minister for Health on the future of hospitals throughout the country, many of which are under threat owing to the moratorium on recruitment. The Health Information and Quality Authority requires that a range of standards be implemented, but many hospitals do not have the staffing required to meed the demand. Given our ageing population, a phenomenon that will become more pronounced in the next ten years, I ask the Leader to arrange an urgent debate on this issue.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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On a point of order, I ask Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill not to use words like "rape" when he is talking about financial institutions.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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No word better describes what these bankers did to the country. I do not have the opportunity of airing my concerns on the Pat Kenny show but perhaps others do.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must resume his seat.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I understand Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill's anger, but he should not use such language when talking about financial institutions. He could surely find another word to describe what the bankers have done.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not a point of order. The Senator must resume her seat.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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For God's sake, surely Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell understands the point my colleague is making.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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She should remember that she is not in the lecture theatre now.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must resume his seat. We are way over time. The three remaining Members who have indicated - Senators Rónán Mullen, Cáit Keane and Terry Brennan - will be called first tomorrow.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien called for a debate on the code of conduct on mortgage arrears. There was a similar request last week, in response to which I indicated that Members would have a chance to raise the matter with the Minister for Finance when he attended the Chamber to take Second and Committee Stages of the Central Bank (Supervision and Enforcement) Bill 2011.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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That Bill deals with totally unrelated matters.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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There was ample opportunity during that debate for Members who raised this issue on the Order of Business to outline their concerns with the Minister.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, I participated in that debate on behalf of my party. As the Leader knows, the procedures of the House require that such debate be confined to the provisions of the Bill in question.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not a point of order.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Leader going to advise us to raise the issue on the Adjournment? Is that what it has come to?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please, Senator.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The debate did not afford us an opportunity to discuss the code of conduct. For the Leader to claim it did-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must resume his seat immediately.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Hold on, a Chathaoirligh.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have asked the Senator to resume his seat. The Leader to continue, without interruption.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The Bill to which the Leader referred has nothing to do with the code of conduct on mortgage arrears.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please, Senator.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader is claiming that we could have raised the issue with the Minister for Finance last week, but that is absolutely not the case. The Bill to which he referred has nothing to do with the code of conduct.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must resume his seat and allow the Leader to speak.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senators had ample time to discuss the issue with the Minister. The code of conduct is devised by the Central Bank, which surely indicates that there was scope to discuss it during the debate on a Bill entitled the Central Bank (Supervision and Enforcement) Bill.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Leader suggesting we use the time allocated today for Report Stage of that Bill to raise this issue with the Minister?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I have asked the Senator to, please, resume his seat and allow the Leader to reply.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Ivana Bacik and others referred to the Anglo tapes, which were discussed at length on the Order of Business yesterday. She also referred to the constitutional convention. I intend to invite the chairman of that body to the House in September to update Members on its proceedings.

Senator Sean D. Barrett referred to the address made by the Taoiseach to the European Parliament. I note his point on the various anniversaries to which he referred and the need for greater democracy in all states. I also note his observations on the introduction of postcodes and the requirement for a cost benefit analysis. I will convey them to the relevant Minister.

Senator Michael Comiskey complimented the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, on his success in the negotiations on the Common Agricultural Policy and highlighted the need for further progress on Pillar 2. I agree that it would be useful to have a debate with the Minister as soon as possible on the success of the CAP negotiations and other matters.

Senator Terry Leyden also referred to the revelations regarding the Anglo tapes. This matter was discussed, in the Senator's absence, on three occasions last week on the Order of Business.

Believe it or not, the issue was discussed. I suggest the tapes may not have helped the country's image, but the people must know the truth. It is the prerogative of Independent Newspapers to print the content of the tapes if they wish. This is a free country and we have free media. Certainly, the people should know the truth. What we heard on the tapes was shocking and I am sure it will lead to criminal proceedings in the future.

Senator John Whelan spoke about turf cutting and I note the points he made. There are a number of special areas of conservation and what we saw at the weekend was blatant disregard of the law of the land, which cannot be tolerated. As has been pointed out, good progress has been made on the issue and the European Commission is now willing to work with Ireland to develop a national plan for all of Ireland's protected raised bogs. For the first time, this may involve some flexibility on a small minority of bogs but only if turf cutting ceases on these protected bogs while the plan is being progressed.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Why do they not engage with the turf cutters to find a solution?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Unfortunately, we saw a number of instances over the weekend of damage to the protected raised bogs. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, has worked very hard to try to solve the problem. Senator John Whelan has mentioned that €4 million has been spent on compensation payments and turf delivery schemes to date. There is no need for people to break the law. We have a system in place under which turf cutters can receive €1,500 per year in compensation for 15 years or have 15 tonnes of turf delivered to their homes. Therefore, there is no need for this desecration of the protected raised bogs. Only 2% of the raised bogs in the country are affected.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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What about people's constitutional rights?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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That is the current position.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is not all that long ago when Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh did not believe in the Constitution at all.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Leader to continue, without interruption.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I will invite the Minister to come to the House to speak about the points raised. I doubt any Minister could do as much as he has done in the past year or so in negotiations, but a small number of people choose to break the law on this issue.

Senator David Cullinane asked whether I was aware of further tapes in regard to Anglo Irish Bank. I am not aware of further tapes, but there may be some. However, I am not aware of other tapes relating to Anglo Irish Bank or other banks.

Senator Lorraine Higgins offered advice to people holding tracker mortgages. As I mentioned, we will ask the Minister for Finance to come to the House to speak again about the code of conduct but not today. There was ample opportunity to do so previously

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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There was not.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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If the Minister cannot come and provide further clarification, the code of conduct is clear for everybody.

Senator Marc MacSharry asked about criminal investigations in regard to Anglo Irish Bank and other banks. Investigations are ongoing and no resources will be spared in bringing people to justice. The Taoiseach is on record in that regard and that would also be the wish of everybody in the country. Unfortunately, it takes time for the law to take its course and people are frustrated by the amount of time it takes. We must remember, however, that three people have been charged and I am sure there will be quite a number of other charges relating to that period a number of years ago. The Garda must build a case and have evidence. There is no point in bringing something to court without the proper evidence. What would people have to say if a case was to collapse because of a lack of evidence? The situation is frustrating for the public, but the Garda and the Director of Public Prosecutions must be afforded time to have cases in order.

Senator Mullen asked about the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill. As I have stated on several occasions I will not comment on that Bill. The House will have plenty of time to discuss that Bill on Second Stage next Thursday. Senator Ned O'Sullivan also asked about the Bill. I note his points about the amount of offensive mail which we are all receiving and which is despicable. I note his points about mobile phone technology and the lack of coverage. I will raise the matter with the Minister and we may have a debate in the future. Senator Crown spoke about skin cancer and that the country has only 30 dermatologists. I refer to his comments on the special delivery unit and the notice to patients and I will bring that matter to the attention of the Minister for Health. Senator Harte asked for a debate on rates and the fact that the property charges will help in that regard but that there is a need for an overall policy on rates. I understand that 80% of the property charge will go to local authorities. That is my information at the moment but I am not 100% certain. This will have certain consequences for the equalisation fund because only 20% will remain for a number of other counties outside of areas with strong rateable bases. That is a matter which I am sure will be discussed here with the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan. Senator White and Senator Norris asked that asylum be granted to Edward Snowden. It should be noted that asylum applications are not generally accepted from persons resident or present in other countries as our refugee status discrimination process is based on applications for asylum being made within the Irish jurisdiction. Accordingly, asylum applications made at Irish embassies abroad are not accepted. That is the situation------

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We have enough leakers in this country and we do not need another one.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I did not refer to that.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I am giving the Senator the answer.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We are talking about human rights of a person who has courage.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Leader, without interruption. Please allow us to listen to the Leader.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I refer to the other matter raised by Senator White, the US spying on the EU. These reports of alleged US surveillance on EU premises are naturally of concern to all EU member states, including Ireland.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Brits are spying on us all the time.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator had his chance to make his point in the European Parliament so I ask him to listen to what is going on in this House and to give a bit of respect. He is not on Roscommon County Council now.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The EU external action service has sought urgent clarification of the situation in both Washington and Brussels. The EU is now expecting to hear from the US authorities and I understand that the EU High Representative, Catherine Ashton, has also spoken directly to the US Secretary of State, John Kerry at a meeting in Brunei. Ireland has already expressed its concerns to the US Embassy in Dublin at senior official level, including that Ireland expects clarification to follow on the EU request. It is important that clarity and transparency are provided on this matter as soon as possible.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames also mentioned the Anglo Irish Bank tapes. As I stated, all resources will be given to gardaí and other agencies to ensure that people will be brought to justice for any wrongdoing. I remind the Senator that to date three people have been charged in regard to that matter.

I dealt with turfcutting, as raised by Senator Ó Clochartaigh, when I replied to Senator Whelan. Senator Mary Moran spoke about the cases of child neglect. The Government is working very hard in this area and the matter was covered in what is only the first phase of an audit commissioned by the Government. I am sure the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, will come to update the House on the progress of the audits as they occur.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill also raised the banking situation. I reiterate that the law must take its course in spite of the frustration we all feel because things are not happening fast enough. It is very important that we allow time for the Garda and the Director of Public Prosecutions to build up a case so that people are charged and brought to court for any wrongdoing that happened in those days of the problems we had with the banks. I agree with the Senator about the lack of values shown by bankers at that period, which was mentioned by President Higgins recently.

I refer to the future of community hospitals. We have had several debates with the Minister for Health in regard to the report on hospitals, in the course of which there was ample time to discuss those points with the Minister. We cannot continue to have debates on the same issue day after day, week after week.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate on how the new Central Bank code of conduct will assist mortgage holders in arrears be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator David Norris has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate be taken today on the need for the Government to take action in the case of Mr. Edward Snowden." Is the amendment being pressed?

David Norris (Independent)
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Yes.