Seanad debates

Thursday, 2 May 2013

10:30 am

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re: arrangements for the address to the House by the EU Commissioner, Ms Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, on 8 May 2013, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; and No. 2, address to Seanad Éireann by Ms Marian Harkin, MEP, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1, in accordance with the arrangements set out in the motion passed by the House on 25 April 2013.

For the information of the House, I mentioned yesterday in regard to the fodder crisis that I hoped to get the Minister for Agriculture Food and the Maine, Deputy Coveney, to come to the House on Thursday next.

He has confirmed that he will come to the House next Thursday. We will have the debate then, which I am sure is welcome.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The horse will have bolted by then.

Photo of Colm BurkeColm Burke (Fine Gael)
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It is cattle as well.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I urge the Leader to use his persuasive powers.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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We will be cutting the lawn at the back by then.

The Seanad is in a pitiful state today when the only two items before us are an uncontroversial motion on the arrangements for a Commissioner to speak to us and an address by the Independent MEP Ms Marian Harkin. I say that with no disrespect for those two brilliant individuals. There is no legislation before us today - none whatsoever. The Seanad is a legislative body. It has the power to make law, but we are not using it for the betterment of the people. The Seanad is being wound down by Fine Gael Senators.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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When a referendum on the Seanad takes place this year or next year, I will not accept reasons to save it from Fine Gael Senators, because they have not put forward a coherent argument for it now, as shown by how they operate the Seanad. The same goes for the Labour Party Senators. The agenda for today is simply outrageously light. We need legislation. There are a massive amount of Bills on the Order Paper, which is lengthy.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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There will be days like this. It also happened during the previous Administration.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I want to raise a particular issue with the Leader but I could use any of the legislation or motions on the Order Paper as an example. The Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill was before the Seanad a year ago and, having read the Order Paper, I understand it is still with the Dáil. We should arrange a debate here on why the Dáil has not passed the Bill yet and why we still pay large amounts of money to drugs companies. At the time of the Seanad debate, we on the Opposition benches offered to rush the legislation through in order to extract substantial savings for the taxpayer and the health system, but nothing happened. The Government decided to delay the passage of the Bill through the Seanad for whatever reason and its passage through the Dáil seems to have been delayed. Therefore, it is about time we arranged a debate on the issue of the price of medicines. This morning I heard a report on my local radio station about people whose medical cards had been taken away without notification and without their knowledge. Cuts have also been made throughout the health service, with nurses and ordinary staff in the health sector being targeted for pay cuts, yet nothing has been done about the moneys paid to drug companies. That is fundamentally unfair. Drug companies have been let off the hook and have been treated differently from medical card holders, staff and patients of the health service. Last year the Seanad had an opportunity to rush the legislation through, but our offer was declined.

The House is now in a pitiful state, with no legislation to debate today. All we have is an address by Ms Marian Harkin, MEP, who has done and continues to do fantastic work, but we could have met her in the AV room in Leinster House. I welcome the MEP, but hearing her address is not a function of the Seanad, whose function is to legislate. I will not mention the legislation because technically it is within the purview of the Dáil to do what it wants. Therefore, I am tabling an amendment to the Order of Business. I propose that, in addition to Nos. 1 and 2, we discuss the failure of the Government to deal with the State's crippling drugs bill. I want us to hold the debate today in the presence of the Minister for Health.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I know the Leader will respond to the Senator's question about the schedule. He gave an indication last week to colleagues - we were all very much aware that next week is Europe week - that we would have a number of MEPs here this week and that the European Commissioner would attend next week, so it was in line with the schedule. Yesterday he also gave Senators in attendance a full response about the difficulty of scheduling the attendance of Ministers during our Presidency of the Council of the European Union.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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That is a load of rubbish, with respect.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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The Leader gave a full response.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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We held the Presidency in the past and we never had that problem, with all due respect.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Bacik, please, without interruption.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik should not give us old waffle now. Go out and get some Ministers and bring them in here. Stand up for yourselves. Show a bit of old backbone.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I listened courteously and I did not interrupt anyone even though I disagreed.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I disagree with the Senator on that one. The Senator is waffling.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Mooney has waffled often enough in the House, yet I have sat and listened to him.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Therefore I should know a good waffle when I hear one.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Let us have some order.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I must say, for those who are critical of the people's views on the Seanad, the Opposition is doing a great job of running it down with that sort of behaviour.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Come on, a Chathaoirligh.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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One listens courteously.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Do not be so childish.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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We have listened courteously.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Do not be so precious. Please talk sense.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Bacik have a question for the Leader?

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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Personal insults and calling people childish and precious should have no place in a House of Parliament.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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You poor girl.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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It is absolutely despicable for Senator Mooney to descend to that level, and it is beneath him.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I have been rebuked.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I ask the Leader for a debate on job creation. This morning it was announced that 100 jobs will be created in Waterford, which are in addition to the 1,600 jobs in the south east announced earlier this week. Yesterday it was also announced that 100 jobs will be created in the ICT sector in Dublin, which I welcomed on the floor of the House. In a week when other political issues have been in focus, perhaps we lost the focus on job creation. We had a number of debates on job creation in the House. The Government has stated an intention to make the ICT sector a key sector for targeted growth in job creation over the coming years. As I said yesterday, we have seen a large number of jobs created in the sector in recent years. It would be worth inviting the Minister responsible for jobs or the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Sean Sherlock, to speak to us specifically about the ICT sector and its potential for job creation. ICT is a hugely important area for growth in Ireland. The Government also plans to create 2,000 extra places in ICT training at third level and it would be good hear about it in a debate.

Finally, there was broad welcome for the publication of the heads of the protection of life during pregnancy Bill 2013. We are all aware that Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will conduct a full debate on those heads. It will be worth seeing whether the Fianna Fáil Party will adopt a responsible legislative approach to the heads of the Bill and recognise that the Bill has been conservatively drafted in line with our obligations under the X case and the European Convention on Human Rights. I hope the party will see its way to supporting the Bill.

Photo of Fiach MacConghailFiach MacConghail (Independent)
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I want to take the opportunity to congratulate two of our leading artists in different disciplines who have been nominated for prestigious Tony awards for best new play and best musical score. I refer to the writer Mr. Colm Tóibín and the musician and head of music at UCC Dr. Mel Mercier. It is a huge achievement, and my fellow Senators will join with me in applauding their nominations in New York.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Fiach MacConghailFiach MacConghail (Independent)
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I have two questions for the Leader. On Sunday I was proud to be one of the sponsors of Walk in the Woodlands at Avondale House, the former home of Charles Stewart Parnell. The event was organised to draw attention and opposition to the sale of the harvesting rights of Coillte. I had to leave a meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine to debate the matter, which coincided with business in the Seanad this morning. I note that the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputies Howlin and Rabbitte, have stated that the sale might not go ahead. I would like to hear the official view of the Government on this disgraceful proposal as agreed with the troika. I raised the matter here on 13 March. I understand the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, will attend next Thursday. He is a busy man and I know this is another extraordinary issue for him. We need to keep the forests and our right to access our national heritage in public ownership.

Photo of Fiach MacConghailFiach MacConghail (Independent)
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My second question relates to an Adjournment matter that I raised with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, on 17 April. I ask the Leader to comment on the Government's response to the development of an extensive nuclear power facility at Hinkley Point, Somerset, in the UK. I congratulate An Taisce on its legal challenge in the UK courts. I seek a debate and clarification of whether Ireland was consulted about the issue. Whatever any of us might think about nuclear power, I question the legality of the consultation process and the UK Government's lack of formal consultation with the Irish Government. I have written to the Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht about the matter. I call on the Government to publish the terms of reference and scope of the assessment of Hinkley Point by the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland. The power plant would be around 150 miles from Ireland and our most densely populated east coast. The facility will be as close to many Irish people as it will be to UK residents. For many Irish citizens, nuclear power facilities cause serious concern regarding risks to their health, the environment and the economy, particularly the fishing, agriculture and tourism industries and essential indigenous industries upon which Ireland relies. The House need not be reminded of the long-standing concerns, issues and documented records of accidents and discharges into the Irish Sea from the UK's nuclear facility at Windscale, which was rebranded as Sellafield. It is worrying that even though Dublin and Wexford are closer to Hinkley Point than London or Glasgow, the Irish public were informed about the matter only after An Taisce took its action. Therefore, I call on the Government to publish the RPII's assessment of Hinkley Point as soon as possible and ask that the Irish Government be formally consulted about the development of the 3,260 MW nuclear power plant.

10:40 am

Photo of Sean BarrettSean Barrett (Independent)
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I welcome the statement by President Higgins in the Financial Times today that there should be a rethink of the way European Union leaders are handling the economic crisis. He says there is a need for pluralism of approaches and, in particular, a separation of banking and sovereign debt. That is the purpose of our Bill, No. 34 on the Order Paper. I met the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, at the unveiling of the sculpture to mark the 60th anniversary of the discovery of DNA by Professor James Watson who, incidentally, had Tipperary connections. It is a beautiful sculpture in the Botanic Gardens. The Minister of State is keen to make progress and said he had the support of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan. We will meet the officials in about three weeks time, but we are getting as much of the material as possible from the United Kingdom and the United States. The need to get a Bill on banking onto the A, B or C list is urgent because the officials are far too slow in that regard. They have to bear responsibility because, substantially, they gave the guarantee in 2008.

I welcome the research on cycle ways by Mr. Frank McDonald in The Irish Times and the huge success of the cycle way between Westport and Achill Sound, of which the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Ring, is a noted advocate. It is built along old railway lines. Unfortunately, as Mr. McDonald notes, similar proposals for a cycle way between west Limerick and County Kerry are being frustrated because CIE did not maintain the route. Some farmers have taken over land properly belonging to CIE which the Minister of State wants to convert into a cycle way to be as successful as the one in County Mayo. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister of State to come into the House to debate the use of disused railway lines as cycle ways, given the success of the experiment in his constituency.

Photo of Deirdre CluneDeirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator Ivana Bacik's call for a debate on the ICT sector. When Commissioner Máire Geoghegan-Quinn is in the House next week, it will be an ideal opportunity to raise the issue with her because, as the Commissioner responsible for innovation and research, she has a large budget from which Ireland could benefit if we were to take the right approach and have the right processes with which to leverage funding to assist the development and creation of jobs here.

May is European Month of the Brain, an initiative which aims to promote understanding of the human brain and the challenges in dealing with a complex disease such as Alzheimer's disease. There is a need for a dementia strategy. I ask the Leader to raise the issue with the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, and the Government to ascertain when we will see this strategy because approximately 42,000 people in Ireland are living with dementia. This has implications for their carers and the health system responsible for their care and support. The Central Statistics Office figures for the projected population of the country were published this week. The number of people over the age of 65 years is due to rise greatly. By 2026 there will be 850,000 people over that age. I am not saying they will all need such care, but it is projected that there will be a large increase in the number of people with dementia which is expected to reach about 140,000 by 2040, a significant increase. This day next week will be Alzheimer's Tea Day which I ask that we acknowledge. We also need to communicate with the Minister of State on when the dementia strategy will be brought forward because there is a need for certainty and a clear plan for individuals and their families facing that situation.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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As Senator Ivana Bacik seems to have developed a very thick skin and is resisting being heckled, I express my continuing dissatisfaction at the manner in which business is ordered in the House. I find it increasingly irritating that the Deputy Leader continues to respond to issues raised by the leader on this side of the House when it is the purview of the Leader of the House, not the Deputy Leader-----

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I said that.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Paschal Mooney have a question for the Leader?

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ivana Bacik should stick to her own agenda which she repeats constantly.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Her only mantra seems to be that an abortion Bill will be brought before the House and that we should all embrace it.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Each Senator is entitled to make a contribution on the Order of Business. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I have every confidence in the Leader. I know how difficult it is, having been a Member of the House for some time, to get Ministers to come here, but I cannot accept that it is because of the EU Presidency this mantra is being dished out to explain why we cannot get Ministers to come to the House. We have held the Presidency on two occasions during my time in this House and I never heard that mantra from the then Leaders of the House, irrespective of which side they were on.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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With all due respect, the Senator had an opportunity to speak.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The Sentoar did not mind interrupting Senator Ivana Bacik.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The Senator does it all the time. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please, Senator Norris.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to establish if Senator David Norris is heckling me or-----

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The Senator should not play party politics.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Paschal Mooney have a question for the Leader?

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I am framing the question, but I am glad that Senator David Norris is heckling me. For one minute I thought he was heckling the Government side. I do not mind. He should continue to heckle me.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I thank the Senator.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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It has gone beyond the point of acceptability that the schedule of business in the House is so thin we are relying on statements from MEPs, eminent and all as they are. I cannot believe - this is about the Order of Business - the reason there are no Ministers available or even a lowly Minister of State cannot be snatched from somewhere around the Houses and brought here to debate several of the issues listed on the Order Paper is as inferred by the Deputy Leader. Legislative measures and also motions are crying out for debate. Topical issues and a range of other national and international matters are being ignored in the House. Surely it is not beyond the competence or capacity of the Government and the Leader, acting in the best way possible - this is not a personal criticism - in representing Members on all sides, to get a Minister to come here to debate issues. We might then at least be seen by the general public to have a more meaningful role, rather than having to listen to a succession of MEPs who are eminent and esteemed and for whom I show no disrespect.

Photo of Aideen HaydenAideen Hayden (Labour)
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I will add to the list of topical issues for consideration by the Leader when setting the Order of Business in the future. I bring to colleagues' attention the fact that average rents have risen yet again for the third quarter in a row. In the past year in some parts of Dublin they have risen by over 10%. This represents a figure of over €1,000 a year for the average family. That is a serious issue when we consider that the number of properties available to rent has dropped significantly. This is not just a Dublin issue, as rents are also rising in Cork and Galway, although they are falling in Waterford, about which I am sure Senator David Cullinane is delighted. Nationally, they have risen by 2.7%. As the census of population indicates, there has been an annual increase of 20,000 in housing demand nationally. We are facing a significant shortage of housing in a very short period. I ask the Leader for a debate, first, on the broader issue of housing supply and, second, social housing. There are over 100,000 households on housing waiting lists. I also ask that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, be asked to come to the House in advance of the negotiations on next year's budget to outline how she intends to deal with the issue of rent supplement. The cuts made last year have literally resulted in increased homelessness and I would like the House to have an opportunity to hear how the Minister intends to deal in the upcoming budget with the issues of low income households and their housing needs.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I will be very positive today and commend those involved in the arts, on which I seek a debate in the light of the wonderful broadcast of "Strumpet City" recently which vividly brought back to mind and celebrated in a better way than any I could think of, in the beautiful voice of Barry McGovern, the Lock-out. We were invited to see at the Abbey Theatre "Drum Belly", an adventurous, remarkable play. I compliment Senator Fiach MacConghail in that regard.

Last night I attended the launch of a book by Brian Merriman who was involved in starting the Dublin Gay Theatre Festival, at which the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, said we were the world leader in this field, more so than San Francisco, and that it had brought great economic benefits to the city.

I also celebrate the Tony awards. There is so much to celebrate, including our wonderful President, Michael D. Higgins, who is described in the article referred to by Senator Barrett as an Irish left-wing poet and human rights campaigner. We can be justifiably and immensely proud of him. He warned that if the current economic model continued to be imposed from the centre of Europe we "risk social upheaval and a loss of popular legitimacy". It is a very significant warning.

There is also the question of separating banking and sovereign losses, which I raise in the context of another article by Mr. Jamie Smyth, who did the interview with the President. It is very interesting that at approximately the time President Higgins was elected, there was a secret meeting in Dublin, under the auspices of something called "the clearing house", between the Government and huge financial interests, including hedge funds and banks, who wanted tax and other advantages for capitalism. Ms Nessa Childers, who is a remarkable, independent-minded and visionary MEP and who attended the House no later than yesterday, discovered this through a freedom of information request. She said the bankers and the hedge fund industry got virtually everything they asked for while the public got hit with a raft of austerity measures. Nothing could underline more President Higgins's visionary comments.

10:50 am

Photo of Michael MullinsMichael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the significant job creation announcements this week for Kilkenny, Waterford and Dublin. They are an indication that confidence is returning to the economy and that overseas investors and multinational companies see Ireland as a place to do business. They see Ireland as a country and an economy which is getting its finances in order. We are seeing significant local innovation also. An entrepreneur in my own county will make in the coming weeks a significant announcement on a manufacturing facility in south-east Galway. Members may remember him from the "Late Late Show" many years ago when he was on with an innovative device for cleaning chimneys, a job most people dread doing. He hopes to create several hundred jobs with a device that will automatically clean a chimney having detected a build-up of soot by administering certain chemicals to dissolve it into a fine dust. It is a sign that confidence is returning, that people are willing to invest and that State agencies are providing significant support and encouragement to entrepreneurs and indigenous businesses. I ask the Leader to organise in the House a discussion with the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, with whom we try to have a quarterly update on the jobs action plan. While the latest review of the plan showed that 97% of its actions have been achieved, we need further input as to how we can accelerate job creation activities within the economy given the unacceptably high level of unemployment which still exists.

Photo of David CullinaneDavid Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I seek the permission of the Leader of the House to take First Stage of the Corporate Manslaughter Bill 2013, which is item No. 15 on the Order Paper, before item No. 1.

I concur with the remarks of Fianna Fáil Members on the Order of Business. Senator Ó Clochartaigh and I have also raised the issue in recent days and weeks. Opposition Members have a genuine concern about the very light Order of Business the House has had in recent weeks. Government and Opposition Members are all here to do serious business and I suspect our concern is shared by Members opposite. While we accept this is a busy time for Ministers who have an EU Presidency role, I do not accept the impact it is having on the House. We are not in a position to introduce and discuss legislation or to have debates on important issues like those which have taken place in the House in previous years.

I remind the Leader of a number of debates for which my party has called in the past number of months. These include debates on mortgage distress, increased poverty, the rental accommodation scheme and the private rented sector, which has been raised already today, youth unemployment, the jobs situation, all-Ireland co-operation and agriculture and the potential of Harvest 2020. The 1,600 jobs which have been announced for the south-east include 80 jobs to be created by Glanbia. The balance of 1,500 ancillary jobs will be created only if we maximise the potential of Harvest 2020, which is why we must have that debate with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Croke Park II has been rejected but we have not had a debate in the House on the implications of that rejection and what will happen next. The revised stability programme has been published. Growth projections have been revised downwards and unemployment projections have been revised upwards, which shows clearly that the austerity policies of the Government are not working. We have also had calls for debates on workers' rights and the arts, including by Senators Mac Conghail and Norris.

We have had any amount of calls for debates in the House, which have not occurred. It is an embarrassment to travel up from our constituencies to the House without being able to contribute in the way we should simply because Ministers do not want to come into the Seanad. There is a perception and a fear on our side, which it is for the Government to allay, that the Government is winding down the Seanad. That is why Ministers will not attend. The evidence is there to prove it. People may laugh or pass remarks opposite, but the proof is in the pudding when one looks back on the Orders of Business over the past number of weeks. It has been appalling. While I do not blame the Leader of the House specifically, I ask him to respond. Hopefully, we will improve the Order of Business for the benefit of all Members in the weeks and months ahead.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Did Senator Cullinane move an amendment to the Order of Business?

Photo of David CullinaneDavid Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Yes. That item No. 15 be taken before item No. 1.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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There is a report in The Irish Times today on the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill which is currently before the Dáil. There is concern about increased repossessions. I ask the Leader to investigate the matter as we must be careful and watch developments in this area. There is a concern that banks will chose to repossess properties where most of the mortgage has been paid off and the sale will clear the outstanding balance in full rather than to chose properties which are in deep negative equity. Let us stand together on this. People who have fallen on hard times but who have had a good record of payment must get credit. We must set clear limits for banks. Where someone has paid off 50% or 60% of a mortgage, that person's current difficulties must not mean his or her home is moved on for repossession. People's dignity must be recognised. I ask the Leader to check this out. While the legislation will be coming to the House, we must know that guarantees and safeguards are built into it to prevent banks from running over people without any respect.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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When the British Government decided to close down the Irish Parliament in College Green, its first move was to try to ignore it, make it irrelevant and reduce its business. In many ways, what is happening in the Seanad is reminiscent of that. The British Government did not succeed initially because of politicians of the stature of Grattan and Flood who resisted and made it impossible to make the Parliament irrelevant. I call for Grattans and Floods to emerge on the Government side, which is where the decision must be made to fight for the integrity of the Chamber for as long as it remains. If we are to be abolished, let us be busy until the last day we sit and let us be relevant.

There has been much commentary on how often the Seanad Chamber has been used by other groups. While much of that is commendable, this Chamber should be used first and foremost for the business of the Seanad.

On the forthcoming local elections, Members will be aware that the local and European elections are only 12 months away. However, we do not yet have the outline of the configuration of the constituencies, which is most unfair to aspiring and sitting councillors. We have all fought elections and we know that one needs a fair run-in before being confident of getting votes. As we are now into the month of May, a decision must be imminent. However, as in the case of all decisions made by the current Cabinet, we hear everything by way of leak. It appears every decision made by the Cabinet has to be leaked at least a month before it is announced.

11:00 am

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The previous Government was brilliant at it.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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We have heard mention of nine-seat and 11-seat constituencies. Somebody in the Cabinet or the Government knows the outline of the constituencies.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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And not just in Fine Gael.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I call on that person to publish the information.

Senator Bacik referred rather fatuously to the forthcoming deliberations of the Fianna Fáil Party on the protection of human life during pregnancy Bill. Her comments were a little rich given the lengthy period of hand-wringing and conscience-wrestling by Members on the Government side, much of which took place on the Plinth. We have kept our powder fairly dry. As stated by Deputy Martin, we will not be playing politics with an issue of such importance but will do what is in the best interests of the country.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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This year, the budget will be announced in October rather than December, the reason for which is, in part, so that we can debate it. I hope we will have an opportunity to debate it well ahead of the decisions' being made. This is exactly the type of work the Seanad should be doing.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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For example, we are currently facing the challenge of obesity. There have been many calls for a tax on soft drinks and so on. I draw the attention of the House to what is happening in Denmark, which introduced a fat tax some years ago on soft and other drinks. It recently reduced this tax dramatically as it believes the economy is more important at this time. The high streets of Denmark were losing a substantial amount of business across the German border because the cost of products in Denmark was too large. Denmark has now reduced those taxes and has taken a number of other steps, such as reducing the cost to retailers and businesses in order to allow them to compete more with businesses across the border in Germany. The comparison between what is happening in County Louth and the Border counties and in Northern Ireland is similar. The Irish Government could introduce similar measures to those introduced in Denmark, which has reduced taxes for businesses, increased incentives for home improvements and allowed people to take money out of their pensions, which process has commenced here. Denmark believes that the release of more money into the economy is the way to conquer austerity, create jobs and get high-street business moving again. In my view, these matters are not a high priority in the Irish Government. These are the issues we should be discussing prior to the budget. We have a few months to do so. Let us not wait until the budget decisions have been made before discussing these issues. Let this House do its best to influence that budget. In terms of our work schedule, I believe we should have a budget debate every week between now and October, when it is proposed to announce the budget.

Photo of Trevor Ó ClochartaighTrevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Aontaím leis an méid atá ráite ag mo chomhghleacaithe maidir leis an Riar Gnó. Sílim go bhfuil sé náireach an chaoi a bhfuil muid ag déileáil leis. I second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by my colleague, Senator Cullinane.

I rise today to raise the serious issue of ambulance services, the current shortage of paramedic staff and the effect this is having on patient safety. It was reported recently that a Garda sergeant in Meath had to drive an ambulance taking an injured child to hospital following an accident in which a car containing three children and a woman veered off the road; that an injured footballer in Carlow had to wait an inordinate amount of time for an ambulance; that a patient in the north-east was brought to hospital by van; in another incident, that a person had to be brought to hospital in a Garda van; that a Garda in Donegal had to drive an ambulance following an incident involving a mother and child; and that there have been many breakdowns of ambulances in Clare and Tipperary.

There are also concerns in regard to the call-out times for ambulance services and centralisation of these services. We have not had a debate on this issue for a long time now. It is a serious issue, particularly affecting rural areas. The two ambulances in Carraroe, County Galway, often remain idle outside the ambulance station because there are no staff to man them. There are serious difficulties and shortcomings in this area. Mr. Michael Dixon, chairman of the National Ambulance Service Representative Association, has said that incidents such as I mentioned are becoming too common. I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for Health to the House to discuss the management of the ambulance service, including whether the fleet and staff available are sufficient to meet the needs of the country in a way that ensures people can access the service quickly, thus preventing situations in which other members of communities have to drive ambulances or take people to hospital in other vehicles during times of emergency.

Photo of Catherine NooneCatherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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On contraband and counterfeit cigarettes, I draw the attention of the House to interesting software launched in Switzerland, called Codentify, which is an app used to scan products to identify whether tax has been paid in the relevant State. While it is currently being used only for cigarettes, I am sure it could be applied to a variety of different products. Many counterfeit cigarettes brought in from the east are extremely dangerous from a health perspective as they contain dangerous substances. This also results in a loss of money for the Exchequer.

Photo of John CrownJohn Crown (Independent)
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Can the Senator identify which cigarettes are not dangerous?

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Noone without interruption, please.

Photo of Catherine NooneCatherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Crown for the interruption. The Senator knows well that I am on the same page as him when it comes to cigarettes. If we must have them in the country we should at least regulate how they are sold. I am supportive of Senator Crown's suggestion that we ban them from this country, but we live in the real world. The reality is that they are being sold illegally. If we could at least eradicate that it would be helpful.

I support Senator Quinn's call for a weekly or fortnightly debate on the budget between now and October. I believe that is crucial.

I draw the attention of the House to the fact that I will be launching the Strokestown International Poetry Festival in Roscommon this weekend. This is the 15th year of the festival, which is fully funded by the Arts Council. There will be a huge variety of Irish poets reading at the festival, which it is hoped will bring many people to the small town of Strokestown and create economic activity there.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Leyden should take note.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with colleagues' comments on the business and future of the Seanad. While we can debate the future of the Seanad, it is more important at this point to talk about the business of the Seanad. Let us face it - the Seanad is receiving the cold shoulder from the Government, particularly from Ministers.

There is a total lack of coherent debate on very important issues that are affecting people, be it mortgage arrears, negative equity, unemployment or the faltering domestic economy. Only 2% of EU legislation that affects this country is scrutinised by the Oireachtas. Why are we not playing a role in that regard? Why can the Seanad not sit for at least four days each week? Why can it not spend one day every week scrutinising European legislation that affects Irish citizens?

11:10 am

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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And listening to our MEPs.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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We can, of course, listen to our MEPs; there is nothing wrong with that. This year Ireland hosts the Presidency. How many European Commissioners have been here talking about policy?

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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There is one next week.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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If the Senator had been listening to the Order of Business, he would know.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I appeal to the Leader-----

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We have dealt with the Order of Business.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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There is a drastic need for us to redefine what we stand for in the Seanad and up our game a little. Having statements and half day sittings is a complete waste of time when the country is in crisis. We should use this Chamber more effectively. That is what I am calling for. Perhaps the heads of the parties might sit down and come up with an agenda. Ultimately, it is a matter for the Government to support the Leader of the Seanad to ensure it actually happens.

The letters issued yesterday by Allied Irish Banks on mortgage interest rate increases are absolutely disgraceful. The bank is almost entirely owned by the State. There are public interest directors on the board, yet the variable interest rate has been increased for those who can barely afford to make repayments. The Government is stagnating the domestic economy, including through property taxation. No one is spending money. Shops are closing in every rural village. Staff are being laid off and there is absolutely nothing happening. In the next couple of weeks every Minister should come to this Chamber to talk about what he or she will do to reignite the domestic economy. All the talk is about foreign direct investment and export-led growth. That is fine, but it will not help Mary or John in Castlebar or Letterkenny. We need the domestic economy to work. It is broken and the Government has no plan to fix it. We need Ministers to tell us what they are doing and allow us to question them on behalf of constituents who are raising issues with us. If this does not happen, we are failing citizens in this House.

Photo of Susan O'KeeffeSusan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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The Senator knows very well that it is a complete fabrication to state the Government has no plan to try to rectify the problem with the domestic economy.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Walk into any shop; it is disgraceful.

Photo of Susan O'KeeffeSusan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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While foreign direct investment does not have a direct impact on Mary in County Donegal or Mary in County Kerry, it is a very important part of the strategy which will, in time, build a stronger economy. The plan is to stimulate the domestic economy in the next year once we have exited the troika arrangement. We will then be able to begin to invest and stimulate the economy. The Senator knows this and, therefore, should not waste our time. He talks about wasting the time of the Seanad; he is doing it himself.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is lecturing her own people.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does Senator Susan O'Keeffe have a question for the Leader?

Photo of Susan O'KeeffeSusan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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I do. I join other Senators in welcoming the heads of the proposed Bill on the protection of life. As others have done, I ask the Leader whether we can have a debate on the matter when it is timely and appropriate to do so. Yesterday a Senator criticised the process because he did not like the outcome. Reference was made to the Joint Committee on Health and Children and the Seanad not listening to people. That was disgraceful. I know the Leader will allow appropriate time to discuss this matter. Although the Senator in question was calling for the discussion to be held in a seemly fashion, he himself was not behaving in such a fashion. I hope that when the Leader organises the debate, it will be conducted in a seemly fashion and that Senators will not be standing up and hurling abuse at one another and the process in this House.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Thomas Byrne, the acting Leader of the Opposition, made a number of points on the Health (Pricing and Supply of Medical Goods) Bill. It was brought to the Dáil twice, but it was not reached on both occasions. It will be brought back to the Dáil next week.

On the drafting of legislation, it is certainly not a matter for me. I can only schedule the legislation brought before this House, be it legislation commenced here or legislation passed in the Dáil. That is my obligation. There have been occasional gaps in the schedule, but it is a testament to how efficiently we deal with Bills in this House. Up to 40 Bills have been initiated in this Seanad, which is way in excess of the number initiated in previous Seanaid. I will not, therefore, take lectures from Members on the other side of the House in that regard.

For a long period Members have requested an exchange with our MEPs, especially on EU matters. How often do we hear from the public that they never hear from their MEPs and about what they are doing? The opportunity to exchange views with Senators is one the MEPs have grasped themselves. The debates we have had have been very fruitful for both the MEPs and Senators. Unfortunately, the Members who are most vociferous about European affairs are, in some cases, not the ones who are attending to have an exchange with MEPs when they are in attendance.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill referred to having respect for the House in regard to its business. I suggest he have respect for it. He tabled a number of matters for the discussion on the Adjournment, but did not even attend when Ministers were present to address them. Respect ought to be shown on both sides.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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That was last year.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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It does not matter whether it was last year or this year.

Senator Ivana Bacik referred to job creation. I am sure we all welcome the 100 new jobs announced in Waterford today and the investment of €9 million in research and development in the company FeedHenry, a spinout company from Waterford Institute of Technology. These are the types of jobs the Government is trying to create and the investment is the kind we are trying to attract to the country. I will invite the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Sean Sherlock, to come to the House to debate ICT jobs. This would be beneficial, considering that the Government is helping to create in excess of 1,000 jobs every month. This number will, I hope, increase significantly.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail referred to the Tony Awards nominations for Colm Toibín and Dr. Mel Mercier which are to be welcomed. It is wonderful to have Irish people on the world theatrical stage and have them nominated for such prestigious awards.

Senator Fiach Mac Conghail also referred to the sale of forest harvesting rights. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, has made the point that we will probably not be proceeding in this regard. I do not know as yet whether this is certain. I note the Senator's concerns about the Hinkley Point nuclear power plant and his call for the publication of the RPII report. I am sure this issue will be raised at a meeting of the joint committee.

Senator Sean D. Barrett referred to the significance of his Bill, the Financial Stability and Reform Bill which was very well debated in this House. I note his point. He referred to disused railway lines and their conversion into cycleways. The ones that have been developed, especially the one in the Westport area, have proved to be very successful. I agree that disused railway lines should be developed.

Senator Deirdre Clune called for a debate on the need for a dementia strategy. I understand the strategy will be announced very soon.

We will invite the relevant Minister to the House to discuss the strategy when it is published.

I do not intend to reply to Senator Paschal Mooney's contribution. We talk about respect for this House, but on several occasions I have referred to Members coming to the Chamber to raise issues on the Order of Business and then drifting out of the House. They are the ones calling for Ministers to come to the House for debates. In some cases, there is a practically empty Chamber for these debates. The Senators making points should look into their own hearts and see how they are behaving in the House and what respect they give to it.

Senator Aideen Hayden raised the issue of rents increasing by 2.7% nationally.

11:20 am

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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She is not here either. Will the Leader make that point when Members on his own side are not present?

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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One does not criticise oneself. That is not democracy, that is dictatorship. It is disgraceful.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Leader, to continue without interruption.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Lecturing Members is wrong.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We do not refer to individual Members.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader should be impartial.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Empty vessels on the other side of the House make a lot of noise.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I am listening to a lot of noise.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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We do not refer to Members who have left the Chamber.

Photo of Brian Ó DomhnaillBrian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader has referred to Senator Paschal Mooney in a very disingenuous way.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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He did not name anybody.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator David Norris asked for a broad debate on the arts. We will ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, to come to the House to discuss the subject.

Senator Michael Mullins correctly welcomed the many recent job announcements. I hope confidence is returning to the economy. All Members of the House would wish for this. The Senator asked that we invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to give a report on the Action Plan for Jobs. I have already asked the Minister to come to the House and he has indicated that he is willing to do so. It is a question of finding time in his schedule.

Senator David Cullinane proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 15, Corporate Manslaughter Bill, be taken before No. 1. I will accede to the request that the Bill be introduced and accept the amendment to the Order of Business. The Senator has mentioned a number of topics that have not been discussed, although a number of the topics he has raised have been debated in the House. We can arrange debates on the others.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames referred to the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Bill. That Bill is before the other House and when it completes the process there, it will be brought to the Seanad when we will have an opportunity to debate it.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan raised the issue of the local and European elections. I understand the report of the commission will be produced by the end of the month. Everybody will then know where they stand in terms of the boundaries, particularly with regard to the local elections, for which they will have more than one year to prepare. I am not sure about the European elections. The boundary commission will probably report at a later stage.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh spoke about the ambulance service. I note the items he mentioned in that regard.

Senator Catherine Noone spoke about measures to ensure tax was being paid on cigarettes. I note her point.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill referred to the plan to fix the jobs problem. I have addressed that issue. We will try to have the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, come to the House to discuss the problem.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe called for a debate, which we will have, on the Bill dealing with the protection of mothers during pregnancy. I am sure there will be a very dignified debate in the House when that Bill is brought before it.

I do not propose to accept the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Thomas Byrne.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Thomas Byrne has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate on the failure of the Government to deal with the State's crippling drugs bill be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put and declared lost.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator David Cullinane has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 15 be taken before No. 1." The Leader has indicated that he is prepared to accept this amendment. Is the amendment agreed to? Agreed.

Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.