Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business, with the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called to reply to the debate not later than 1.35 p.m.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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What is the position on item No. 13 on the Order Paper, Civil Registration (Marriage Equality) Bill 2013, which was published in great haste during the Meath East by-election? Will the Deputy Leader inform the House when she will introduce the Bill in her name?

I request a full debate next week on policing and Garda recruitment. Yesterday the Minister for Justice and Equality who is not happy that he is the most unpopular justice Minister who has ever served the country and has lost the confidence of An Garda Síochána - when we tabled a motion of no confidence in him more than one month ago, he did not bother to turn up to take it - stated to the Association of Garda Superintendents and Inspectors that he would delay the arrival of new recruits in Templemore effectively because the Croke Park ll agreement had been voted down. As we all know, there are no gardaí in training in Templemore. From the time new recruits enter the Garda Training College there is a two year training cycle before they pass out and become full members of the force. The Minister is, in effect, continuing to bully An Garda Síochána, the members of which are not just concerned about pay and conditions but also that they are not being given the resources they need to carry out their jobs. I have given specific instances of the lack of Garda resources, vehicles and new recruits. What does our esteemed Minister do? In a fit of pique following the failure of members of An Garda Síochána to vote in the manner he wanted them to do, he states he will not recruit. We need him to come to the House to answer questions on how he will rescue the situation, as members of the force have voted no confidence in him. Not only are the members of An Garda Síochána suffering, so too is the general public. Does the Government have plans to restart recruitment of new members to the force?

Was it a Government decision, supported by the Labour Party, that new gardaí will not be recruited? Is this a Cabinet decision or is it the Minister, Deputy Shatter, on another solo run?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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On a point of clarification, did Senator O'Brien move an amendment to the Order of Business?

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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No. We have another one on the way.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to warmly compliment and commend the Chief Justice on her speech yesterday at Griffith College. She has obviously proven to be a steady hand on the tiller, so to speak. As I said yesterday, all this needed was a little period of calm and reflection and I think this has been achieved.

David Norris (Independent)
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She is a Trinity graduate.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Of course. I look forward to the Deputy Leader responding on these matters as it is up her alley, so to speak. She is another eminent legal person and a professor.

The working group has been agreed and was outlined by the Chief Justice. It will be wonderful and it will deal with an agenda of items. While the traditional route through the Attorney General's office was always available and will continue to be, it will be aided and abetted by the working group or forum. I compliment everyone involved in so far as there were two sides and everyone is very pleased with the outcome. I wish to compliment the Chief Justice, Susan Denham, once again for what she has achieved. Maybe "achieved" is the wrong word because she was always very involved. The Taoiseach met with her and with the Attorney General in the recent past. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, has regular meetings with members of the Judiciary on a wide range of matters. The proposed court of civil appeal will help to remove the backlog of cases before the Supreme Court. I look forward to the Deputy Leader's appropriate comments on that matter.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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Arising from the two very fine debates in the House yesterday on research I am pleased to note today that the Leiden University research impact index ranks TCD at ninth in Europe and 48th in the world. We also had a very useful discussion on banking. I note that in putting the squeeze on small business, AIB is increasing the charge of 17 cent per €1,000 lodged to 45 cent, from 1 June 2013. That belies all the bank's statements about helping small and medium enterprises. As discussed last night, the bank is not helping people with mortgages and it is putting the squeeze on small business as well. I ask the Deputy Leader to cast her eye over that increase in charges for small and medium enterprises.

I refer to No. 14 on the Order of Business, Financial Stability and Reform Bill 2013. I move and amendment to the Order of Business, that item No. 14 be taken before item No. 1. My seconder is Senator Mullen.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I second the amendment.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I thank the Opposition for a very constructive debate yesterday on the issue of mortgage arrears. I welcome the publication today of the personal insolvency guidelines. It is important to acknowledge that they are a minimum and they go some way to answering the incredible uncertainty among people who are in debt. Now anyone approaching a lending institution and enduring the humiliating experience of their bills being examined knows that at least these guidelines will give some measure of what they can expect at the very least from a lending institution. We were all agreed yesterday that banks need to be held to account. There was genuine agreement on all sides of the House that we are not happy with the way in which banks are treating borrowers in difficulty. I am personally very concerned about this issue of a case-by-case resolution of problems. It reminds me of the "Life of Brian"; we are all individuals, except we have no idea how we are to be treated. We have no idea whether what is being offered is a good deal. I reiterate my call to the Leader to ask the Minister for Finance to come to the House to have a discussion on the role of banks in Irish society, particularly in the context of how they are dealing with borrowers in difficulty. It is clear that there is not a level playing field. Allowing €250 for people to get expert advice when they have been offered a deal by a lending institution to which they cannot probably, in all truth, say, "No", is way too little and way too late. Expert, independent advice must be available for anyone who is dealing with a borrowing crisis. Nothing less is sufficient.

David Norris (Independent)
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Well said.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I reiterate my call for an urgent debate on the farming crisis. While I acknowledge that the Deputy Leader is a very capable lady and a Trinity graduate, I must not allow her to forget her roots in Baile na Gallda, Crookstown, in west Cork, where she comes from farming stock. As I said yesterday, many farmers are disillusioned and there is much despair and depression. I am not here today to point the finger of blame at the Minister, Deputy Coveney, or the troika or the banks because the Minister is not to blame for the weather. However, because the situation is so serious it demands an urgent response. A precedent was set by the previous Government in 2009 when money was provided on a short-term basis for those in difficulties during the fodder crisis. Farmers are currently being billed for the property tax. They look out their windows and in some instances the cattle and sheep are staggering around the fields with starvation. The supply of credit from the banks is very tight and many farmers are unable to get extra allowances from the providers of foodstuffs such as bags of nuts and other animal feed. It is a very serious issue. I am pleading from my heart rather than making a political point.

I will propose an amendment to the Order of Business that this matter be debated. The Leader said yesterday that the Minister, Deputy Coveney, may come to the House in two or three weeks' time. However, in two or three weeks' time, it will be too late for many farmers. The situation is very serious. Their livestock are in a desperate state because they are starving in many instances. I pity the farmers. It has been a terrible winter and March has been the worst on record. Last year was so inclement and many farmers did not have the necessary fodder provisions to tide over the winter.

I appeal for an urgent debate with a heavy heart. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that we have a debate this evening and that the Minister or some other Minister with a knowledge of farming come to the House.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I rise to support Senator O'Donovan. I am very familiar with the hardship being suffered by farmers.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Healy Eames seconding the amendment?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I am not seconding the amendment but I am supporting his concern-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is half-supporting it.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I would appreciate if I could speak. There is a desperate fodder crisis at the moment. We are looking for a few weeks' support until the grass grows. It has been a very dry and bitterly cold period. Farmers have been unable to get their cattle out and nothing is growing. To be fair, the Minister, Deputy Coveney, addressed us on this matter last evening. He spoke to all of the banks and the co-operatives yesterday. Farmers have been relying on the co-operatives to provide them with lines of credit. The banks have assured the Minister that credit is currently available to the farmers. It is encouraging to know that Ulster Bank stated it has set money aside. The bank is surprised that more farmers are not availing of this funding. However, I am not surprised, given the overall concern about the banks. Farmers must be supported at this crucial time. We are relying on this industry to pull us out of this mess of the recession. Farmers generate money in their local economy and they must be supported.

This House is unanimous in calling for help for farmers and for the banks to be sympathetic to them, given that they have made that commitment to the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I support previous speakers. I have experienced the frustration and anxiety of farmers as they look at a shrinking fodder supply and cattle still inside when they should be out in the fields.

I mention an issue which is particularly acute in Galway and Roscommon. The local authority in Galway has announced a €750,000 cut in housing aid for the elderly and disabled persons. These days as we reflect on the business of personal insolvency arrangements, in particular people's inability to pay for their houses, there is nothing as acute and frightening for a family as insecurity when it comes to the family home. Approximately 4,800 families are seeking family homes in Galway, while approximately 500 households are waiting to be housed in Roscommon. Given the cuts in housing aid generally, it is unlikely that there will be much progress in reducing these lists. The call made by Clúid, the national non-profit housing association, for innovative solutions is very welcome and timely. Mr. Simon Brooke, its head of policy, has called on local authorities to look at long-term leasing schemes, using the large number of unoccupied houses remaining from the previously buoyant property market. This is not a new idea, but it is one we must continue to discuss. Will the Minister of State responsible for housing and planning, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, come to the House to clarify how the Government plans to address this problem?

John Kelly (Labour)
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A number of weeks ago Senator John Whelan and I called for a moratorium on wind farm developments until the review of the current guidelines was completed. Needless to say, that call fell on deaf ears, but there have been a number of developments in the past couple of weeks as a result of a European Court of Justice ruling which found that Ireland was not compliant with an EU EIA directive. Where property is devalued, the State will be held liable. From a rough tot of the possible liability, we are talking about anything up to €1 billion for persons affected in living too close to wind farm developments. In the past few days we have been talking about how we can save €300 million. However, when the floodgates open on this issue, we will be talking about a sum of at least €1 billion, or perhaps more. Will the Deputy Leader bring this to the attention of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government? It would be in everybody's interests if he could come to the House next week to debate this issue because we simply would not be able to afford this bill.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Last week Diageo announced that it would close its manufacturing plant in Waterford city. As many know, there has been a long tradition of brewing in Waterford. The plant mentioned which produces the concentrate, or the essence of Guinness, which is exported all over the world, has been in operation for hundreds of years. Some 35 jobs are to go, while I understand production will be centralised in the St. James's Gate facility in Dublin. Obviously, that is an issue for the company and I do not place responsibility for what has happened on the Minister, the Department or the Government. Multinational companies make these decisions, but that is cold comfort for the 35 people in Waterford who might lose their jobs. Will the Deputy Leader ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation what interventions have been made by him and the Department? This is a very strange decision because in 2004 the company invested €40 million in the facility in Waterford which is state-of-the-art. Public moneys were used to invest in that facility, yet a short number of years later the company has decided to close down the manufacturing plant, despite the fact that it is state-of-the-art. Obviously, the trade union involved is trying to put pressure on the company to reverse its decision, but if that is not possible and jobs are lost, there will be a responsibility on the Government and Enterprise Ireland to look at the future of the site and ensure some micro-brewing company is put in place in order that an iconic building in Waterford city will not be left vacant. Obviously, our primary goal is to try to convince the company to maintain the jobs in Waterford. What actions can be taken and what interventions can be made by the Minister and the Department to save the jobs in question?

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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I again call for an independent inquiry into the death of Savita Halappanavar. We have all seen the great pain experienced at the inquest into her death, the aim of which is to find out the cause of her death. The reason I again call for an independent inquiry is to find out exactly what happened in the hospital and how the death occurred in a modern hospital of a woman miscarrying at 17 weeks. This is something we need to do urgently because the case raises many questions about the health care of pregnant women.

With the indulgence of the Cathaoirleach, I draw attention to the young Senators event which will occur in the House next Tuesday. The idea behind the event is to reach out to transition year students and allow them an opportunity to be Senators for half a day. It is also to allow the Seanad to showcase how it operates.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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They will not be here for a full day.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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The event will start at 12.30 p.m. and there will be 45 students representing a number of counties, including Dublin, Galway, Wicklow, Roscommon, Kilkenny, Westmeath and Sligo. We are very lucky that the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, will be here at 1.30 p.m. to hear the students' views on the leaving certificate examination and what they think should be done with it. They will have an opportunity to read their contributions to him and he will answer questions. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, will listen to their contributions on what they think about Ireland and their future here. It will be the first time this will ever have been done in the Houses of the Oireachtas and it would be great if Senators were able to support these young people on the day and show that we were interested in their future.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I support the impassioned plea made by my colleague, Senator Denis O'Donovan, on the fodder crisis and the amendment proposed to the Order of Business. I inform the House that this very serious issue was raised at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine this morning. It was traumatic to hear the distressing tales from the south of the country, in particular, where the weather has been so horrendous in recent months. Families are in distress such that they cannot afford to buy silage and hay. The reason I am supporting Senator Denis O'Donovan is to call for solidarity in the farming community because one of the issues which arose at this morning's meeting was that there seemed to be exploitation of farmers in distress by unscrupulous marketeers, which is the only way I can describe them because I do not know from where they come, but they are reportedly selling bales of silage for upwards of €50 or €60, which is exploitation at its worst. I hope somebody will report not only on this call for a debate but also on the call for solidarity in the farming community and that at this time of crisis those with surplus fodder will release it at reasonable prices to those farming families in serious distress which is being added to by the fact that the banks are not lending money. The figures about which we are talking are significant. It has been estimated that in the case of an average holding, a farmer may have to find upwards of €10,000 to maintain proper feeding standards.

Senator O'Donovan is right that animals are dropping dead from starvation. Imagine that happening in this day and age in a civilised country. People are exploiting the distress suffered by farmers. I call for some solidarity and hope that the IFA will engage immediately, as a matter of urgency. I hope that it will ensure that fodder will be provided to farmers who need it and are in distress.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I support the call by Senator Mooney for solidarity among the farming community. Yesterday I supported the call by Senator O'Donovan for a debate on the crisis in the farming community. I welcome the statement made by the Minister yesterday when he said that he had made personal contact with the banks and the merchants asking that the farming community be treated fairly and with consideration and compassion. I hope the period of distress will be short-term. Over the next couple of weeks the farming community should be in a better position when the grass begins to grow and the weather improves. It is appalling that unscrupulous people make money on the back of struggling farmers at this time. I strongly urge the IFA to become actively involved and ensure solidarity in its community so that better-off farmers assist those in dire need. It is appalling that animals are dying of hunger in this day and age. I hope that merchants will play their part in helping farmers.

David Norris (Independent)
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I ask the Leader to investigate a troubling matter and report to the Seanad. I understand that a group calling itself the Iona Institute deliberately misled the convention by knowingly using inappropriate information. It is serious that a body established by both Houses of the Oireachtas should be so misled.

I refer to page 1 of the institute's submission which quoted a 2002 Child Trends Research Brief entitled Marriage from a Child's Perspective: How Does Family Structure Affect Children, and What Can We Do About It? The institute cited the report as supporting its case against marriage equality. The authors of the report placed a disclaimer on its front page stating:

Note: This Child Trends brief summarizes research conducted in 2002, when neither same-sex parents nor adoptive parents were identified in large national surveys. Therefore, no conclusions can be drawn from this research about wellbeing of children raised by same-sex parents or adoptive parents.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

David Norris (Independent)
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I do and indicated that right at the beginning. My question is very serious and I ask for the Cathaoirleach's indulgence, please.

Complaints were made, investigated and found to be untrue. Will the Deputy Leader contact the convention and ask it to confirm these matters that I believe to be true? Having satisfied herself that this is the case, will she establish for us who are these people? How were they established? What is their membership? What is their constitution?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The matter is more appropriate for the Adjournment debate.

David Norris (Independent)
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No, it is a matter for the Deputy Leader because this is a very, very serious matter. If people are deliberately misleading a body established by the Oireachtas with the plain knowledge that the authors of research have said that their research must not be used in this situation. The matter should trouble all of us who believe in truth, integrity and the decency of public standards. This body must be held accountable. I have one more question. How is it funded?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I suggest that Senator Kelly table Committee Stage of his Wind Turbines Bill 2012. It would resolve some of the issues that he raised regarding the location of turbines next to families and their homes, particularly in Rahara, County Roscommon where a family have been badly affected.

There is a two-tier system in the Labour Party. The upper echelon comprises Senator Ivana Bacik and a few more who get their Bills through the House.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Thank you.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The lower echelon comprises the newcomers, the Senators who rose with the "Gilmore gale" and came from all parties and none.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Deputy Leader?

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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They defer to the Labour Party.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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From all parties and none they were all gathered up by the gale and were blown in here.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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The Senator is very ill-informed.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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They were blown in and they will be blown out as fast. A gale works both ways.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Deputy Leader?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to give my view of the gale. I ask Senators to bear in mind that gales can go in reverse. I ask the Deputy Leader to convince the Government to take Committee Stage of Senator Kelly's Bill as she is so persuasive.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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It is hot air rather than a gale.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik is special within the Labour Party.

I support the good proposal made by Senator O'Donovan to deal with the fodder crisis, which was supported by other Senators. The crisis is evident and there is not one bale of hay left where I live in the parish of Athleague-Fuerty. In my area people sell them at a normal price but the cost of buying fodder from mills and so on is a terrible hardship for farmers.

Fianna Fáil always responded to such situations but the Government and the Minister seem to be above doing so. He is too busy in Europe and is obviously not interested in the situation. There is a crisis here and it is about time that Fine Gael Senators asked their Minister to do something and take stern action. I am not talking about ringing bank managers or co-operatives. I implore it to do like what my party did when it faced such crises in the past. I suggest the Government provide a distress fund, import fodder at a price or even involve the Army to transport or import fodder. Fianna Fáil always took action in such situations.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil acted all right.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Excuse me, madam. The former Minister, Mr. Joe Walsh, prevented foot and mouth disease from entering the country.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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He never got much thanks for doing so.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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It is hard to get a word in. Something very serious has occurred. The Irish Lung Fibrosis Association is concerned at a decision taken by the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics, NCPE, not to make Pirfenidone available to patients. I have been a patron of the association for some time. Lung fibrosis is a very serious disease with no cure but Pirfenidone enables people to stay alive. The issue is not dissimilar to what happened with cystic fibrosis sufferers earlier this year when a decision was made not to spend money on a drug. A campaign led to the Minister reversing his decision and made an exception for cystic fibrosis sufferers even though the drug is costly. The Irish Lung Fibrosis Association faces the same dilemma and is concerned. Not many sufferers are involved but the drug will keep them alive. Its benefits were only discovered in recent times.

It has been approved by the European Medicines Agency and the National Institute for Health and Clinical Accidents in Britain but we have not allowed it to be distributed to patients. It is worthy of the same attention given to the drug for cystic fibrosis earlier in the year. I will write to the Leader on the issue and also to the Minister for Health. Attention needs to be drawn to the issue and it should be given the necessary priority to save lives.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Tá go leor caint faoi dhaoine sa chóras ag baint mí-leas as daoine bochta leochailleacha. There is much talk about people in the system exploiting vulnerable people. I agree with those statements in regard to the farming community and certainly their help is needed. Another example of that, which we have raised on a number of occasions, is the direct provision system. There are still approximately 6,000 people in 43 hostels across the country. One third of those in direct provision are children and many of the families are in the system for more than five years. It is important to note that in the past ten years 53 people died in direct provision, a quarter of whom were under five years of age. It is a privatised system. People who are running for-profit centres are profiting on the backs of other people's difficulties. On a positive note I remind Members that we have called for a debate on the issue and ask the Deputy Leader when it may take place.

An unusual presentation is taking place today, next door to the Kildare Street Hotel, in Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge, where a full scale model of a direct provision room, made by Doras Luimní, shows where people are asked to stay in a direct provision centre. A presentation is also being made by the Irish Refugee Council, AkiDwA and Doras Luimní. I call on all Senators to go there between now and 4 p.m. and get the information. I ask the Deputy Leader to outline when the debate promised to Senator Jillian van Turnhout and me will take place.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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In the context of the debate on mortgage arrears yesterday and other comments on the issue, there is a need for a publicly-funded financial adviser to provide advice to borrowers in distress at an early stage. Currently borrowers in such circumstances are entitled to have €250 towards an accountant who can have a look at the deal that has been struck with the bank which is too late as far as I am concerned. To a large extent the public is not aware of the €250 fee which is available to accountants. It is better than nothing but we need a publicly-funded adviser who can assist at an early stage. The Money Advice and Budgeting Service is doing a great job in assisting and organising people with debt. Not only does it not have the specific expertise to interact with banks and advise on deals at an early stage but it is inundated with work and unable to deal with this ever-increasing issue. I ask the Deputy Leader to arrange for a debate on this issue in the near future when the Minister for Finance would come to the House, although we debated mortgage arrears yesterday.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy Leader to arrange for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to come to the House for an early debate in light of the vote on Croke Park II. It is imperative that the choices being made by Government are fair. Previously I raised the issue of housing grants for the elderly, the disabled and mobility grants, all of which have been cut. My own County Wexford has had a cut of 55% in its allocation for this year. This means that those who had been waiting three and four years for these grants are saving the Exchequer a considerable sum of money. Without these grant aids they would be in State care much earlier which is very expensive. There is a compelling reason for reinstating the level of allocation. Wexford and other countries were very dependent on the construction industry for employment and due to the collapse of the industry there is considerable unemployment. These small schemes were the ideal projects which many Members on all sides spoke of for getting people back to work. There are people who are unemployed who could be usefully engaged doing good work to assist people to remain in their own homes. This is a false economy. I ask the Deputy Leader to arrange for the Minister to come to the House for a debate on the difficult fiscal position, which nobody denies. Hard choices have to be made but, unfortunately, the choices being made are wrong. We need an informed debate and given the decision taken this week it is imperative that debate takes place sooner rather than later.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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I second Senator Barrett's amendment to the Order of Business.

I join the leader of my party in calling on the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, to come to the House. I ask the Deputy Leader to set aside quite a few hours for a debate as there are many issues to be discussed. Those issues include: the low morale in the Garda Síochána; the depletion in the numbers of the force, with no recruitment on the cards; the inability of members to do their job due to a lack of equipment, in many cases they use their own cars and mobile telephones to do a job which should be facilitated by the State; the closure of Garda stations, courthouses and Army barracks; the debacle with the Judiciary; and, in particular, why Dún Uí Neill barracks in Cavan, was closed in March without any logical reason being given for doing so. It was the most modern barracks in Europe and the only purpose-built barracks in the history of the State, located seven miles from the Fermanagh Border, where there has been three incidents involving dissident terrorists in the past month. I pointed out on many occasions, as other colleagues did, that the terrorist threat to the State is not gone. This has been proven seven miles from Cavan town, the location of Dún Uí Neill barracks, where three incidents have taken place in the past month.

That the G8 summit is to be held in Enniskillen in June 2013 is welcome. What will the Government do to protect the Border? From where will the troops come? They will come from Athlone, where they were moved from Cavan, for a month and will have to be facilitated in private accommodation. I predict that a barracks will again have to be built in Cavan town to protect the State from the threat that exists. I ask that the Minister for Justice and Equality come to the House and to be open and honest, not shrouded in a straitjacket of pomposity, and to tell Members exactly what is going on in the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces, of which he has made a total shambles to date.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I agree wholeheartedly with my Ulster colleague, Senator Wilson, in his call to invite the Minister for Justice and Equality, the most arrogant Minister in Europe, to the House as soon as possible.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator would know all about that.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I put a message on Facebook yesterday. One of the comments read: "I am sure Minister Shatter had no friends at school." He is certainly losing friends very quickly given the arrogant and blunt manner in which he is taking decisions.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Those are very personal remarks.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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It is totally unacceptable.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I think the Senator should withdraw those comments.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, they are not my words, I read them on the Internet.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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They are very personal remarks. They have been put on the record of the House and should be withdrawn.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I have only quoted the words.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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The Senator should not have quoted them.

David Norris (Independent)
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I can confirm that he does indeed have friends - not a great many but some.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should withdraw the remarks. Senator Norris should resume his seat.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris has clarified the position very well.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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It does not matter if the comments were on the Internet or not. They should be withdrawn.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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They were not meant personally but are available for all our colleagues to read on the Internet.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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Senator Ó Domhnaill chose to put them on the record of the House.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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On a point of order, it is appropriate for Senator Ó Domhnaill to criticise the Minister politically, but the personalised attack must be withdrawn.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Senator to withdraw the remarks.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I will amend the remarks. They are quotes on the Internet to which I will not refer further. However, the point I am trying to make is a valid one. Anyone with a political understanding of what is happening in the country will realise that the Garda is being treated with contempt. The people who defend the State, our elderly and young and prevent crime are being treated with contempt. Garda cars in my constituency have done more than 300,000 km and are being taken off the road. Gardaí do not have transportation to investigate crime. The Minister is treating the country with contempt. Not only is he being arrogant in his defence and justice portfolios, he is treating the safety of the nation with contempt. I agree wholeheartedly with Senator Wilson that the Minister should come to the House to explain the rationale behind some of his decisions.

I support the raising of the fodder crisis. It is a major issue which received all-party support at the meeting of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine this morning. The problem is one for farmers west of a line between Donegal to Waterford. Many animals are dying as a result. People are charging up to €78 for a bale of silage and the crisis is escalating. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine must address the crisis immediately and support farmers. It is now an animal welfare issue, which is a subject on which the Minister recently came to the House to process legislation. He must live up to the legislation he brought before the House.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We are constantly harangued on the Opposition side by Members on the Government side about the bad decisions Fianna Fáil made. I joined Fianna Fáil because the people in it, from Lemass on, were pragmatic doers. In 2001, the then Minister for Agriculture and Food, Joe Walsh, single-handedly prevented foot and mouth disease from spreading in Ireland. Every morning he held crisis meetings and put plans in place which were implemented on a daily basis. The current Minister is a bit wet behind the ears on how to achieve anything other than PR.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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That is another personal attack.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is unparliamentary language. It is not a fair remark to make about a Minister.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I have heard Senators call for meetings.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We need the Minister to lead from the front and deal with the crisis in agriculture. On Sunday, I had the pleasure of going to Moneygall, outside which the sign I achieved in getting erected said it was the ancestral home of President Obama. It was put up last week. All the animals in the field beside the sign ran towards us because they thought they were going to be fed. They were hungry. We need the Minister to lead from the front like a military general to solve the problem. We must think of the pain of the lambs, sheep and cows that are hungry. It is terrible.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, generals tend to lead from the back.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien raised a number of matters, including the Civil Registration (Marriage Equality) Bill which is on the Order Paper in my name. I hope to bring it forward as soon as I can. I am conscious that colleagues might have other matters they wish to raise during the Labour Party's Private Members' time. It will take its turn.

I can ask when the Minister for Justice and Equality will be available for a debate on policing. To be fair to the Minister, he is in the House on a very regular basis and is one of the Ministers who most frequently initiate Bills in the Seanad. It is an important thing to note. It is very good for the House and the quality of debate on Bills generally when they commence here. The Minister will be here regularly in the coming weeks on other legislation.

Senator Coghlan raised developments in the context of the speech of the Chief Justice at Griffith College's law society. I join the Senator in commending the Chief Justice, Mrs. Justice Susan Denham, for her measured approach and her steady hand. I should declare my own interest as a barrister and member of the Law Library. Many of us with an interest in the area anticipated that the Chief Justice would have sensible comments to make on the matter. As she has said, the Attorney General is the appropriate channel for communication between the Judiciary and the Executive. That has remained the case in recent weeks when the matter has been in the media. The Chief Justice has established a working group for renewal which will support the channels of communication which have remained in place and which continue to remain in place between the Judiciary and the Executive through the offices of the Attorney General. It is very clear that the working group will work very well in supporting the communication channels. We are all very conscious of the need to protect the separation of powers but also to ensure as a matter of practicality that there are working channels of communication. I am very glad the issue has been dealt with clearly by the Chief Justice.

Senator Barrett raised the welcome news of the university rankings in which Trinity College Dublin is ranked 48th in the world. I join the Senator in commending the ranking. I join the Senator in expressing concern on reports of an increase in charges by AIB. Other Senators have sought a debate on banking, in which context the issue might be raised. He also raised the matter of an amendment to item 14 on the Order of Business to debate his Financial Stability and Reform Bill. I am happy to accept the amendment in the normal way.

Senator Hayden raised the publication of the personal insolvency guidelines which will be launched by the Minister for Finance this afternoon. There has been a great deal of debate in the context of the guidelines, which we all look forward to seeing. I am glad to see reports today which suggest there will be a degree of flexibility built into them. Senator Hayden is right to say the guidelines will, at least, give borrowers in distress objective criteria by which they may deal with banks. It is very important that banks be held to account. The current case-by-case way in which borrowers are being dealt with raises issues about inconsistency and arbitrary decisions. It will be very helpful to have a clear set of guidelines in place. We hope they will be sensible and provide the required degree of flexibility. Senator Hayden also sought a debate with the Minister for Finance on the role of the banks. She has sought that before and I will renew my request to the Minister.

Senator O'Donovan was the first to raise the fodder crisis. He very kindly referred to my Crookstown roots, which I am always delighted to recall. I grew up to the west of Cork city in the Crookstown-Macroom area where there is a strong farming community. I am aware of the serious fodder issue and the great distress of farm families who see livestock starving. It is an issue many colleagues raised. Senators Healy Eames, Mullen, Mooney, Mullins, Comiskey, Leyden, Ó Clochartaigh, Ó Domhnaill and White also raised the issue. Senator O'Donovan called for an amendment to the Order of Business. While I have sympathy for the proposal, I cannot accept it. I have put in a call and cannot get the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to attend the House today. As there has been such concern, I will read a statement from the Minister as to what has been going on. The matter was also raised at the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine which is writing to the Minister for an urgent response and will follow the matter up strenuously in the coming days. The statement reads:

Over the past number of days the Minister Coveney and Department officials have spoken to members of the pillar banks and representatives of a number of co-ops, including Glanbia, Dairygold and Lakeland. The Minister spoke individually to representatives from the main banks operating in the sector - Ulster Bank, AIB and Bank of Ireland.
Ulster Bank:
Last autumn made available a €15 million "weather fund" to farmers to be drawn down as short term loans in recognition of the bad weather last summer. Their preference is that farmers would take down lower interest short-term loans in preference to more expensive overdraft facilities. More recently they have released €10 million in response to the crisis in Northern Ireland, this fund however is also available for farmers in the Republic of Ireland.
AIB:
They have put a significant number of personnel in place to deal with the issues facing farmers on the ground and the increased demand for overdraft and short-term facilities. AIB are encouraging farmers to come forward to talk to them about their individual circumstances. They are insistent that farmers will get a positive response as they see this [as many colleagues described it] as a short term financing issue in a year when prices for milk and meat in particular will remain strong.
Bank of Ireland:
Like the other banks they are encouraging farmers to come and talk to them and they are anxious to make credit facilities available to the farming community. Some of the figures worth noting from the bank include:
Only 65% of existing overdraft facilities are being currently used across their portfolio of farming customers.
While there has been a 15% increase in requests for increased overdraft facilities by farmers this is much less than the increases requested by other small business sectors.
While there has been an increase in demand for short term loans it has not been dramatic.
All three banks were insistent that they view farming and farmers as customers to be facilitated in the current fodder crisis with regard to access to credit facilities in form of overdrafts and short term loans. [The Minister] will be meeting the banks in person next week and will continue the conversation with them.
Co-Ops:
With regard to the Co-Ops that were spoken to a number of significant initiatives are apparent [and many colleagues recognise that this is not just an issue that concerns banks but also a matter for farming solidarity, for the IFA to intervene and for co-ops and merchants to intervene].
Over €25 million in additional credit facilities have been made available to farmers.
In the specific case of Dairygold who are responding to these exceptional circumstances they are making interest free credit available for purchases of ruminant feed that are taking place in March and April. They are also importing a large volume of hay from the UK and making it available at cost to farmers in need.

The Minister and Department have been reassured by the conversations with the Co-Ops that they are aware of and are continuing to support their members in recognition of the significant pressure that farmers are under. The Minister and Department will continue to monitor the situation closely on a daily basis and will respond appropriately as the situation develops.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It is not much good in the west of Ireland.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is something the Minister is very much aware of and is responding to on a daily basis. I am also conscious the Minister will be in the House to deal with the Animal Health and Welfare Bill. Colleagues can raise these concerns at that point.

Senator Healy Eames also referred to the fodder crisis and I have set out a detailed response to her concerns. Senator Mullen also raised the housing crisis and asked for the Minister of State with responsibility for housing to come to the House. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, will attend the House on 15 May to discuss wind energy. Perhaps we can expand the debate.

Senator Kelly referred to a wind farm moratorium. The Minister of State will be in the House on 15 May to discuss the matter.

Senator Cullinane referred to the potential closure of a Diageo manufacturing plant in Watford. It is a sensitive issue and we all join him in hoping the efforts to ensure jobs are not lost will be successful. It is perhaps early to seek a debate in the House on the matter given the current nature of talks. We all hope the jobs will be kept. Enterprise Ireland will work on it.

Senator O'Keeffe raised the matter of an independent inquiry into the death of Savita Halappanavar. Those listening to reports of the inquest are very concerned to hear the evidence emerging, particularly the evidence yesterday of Dr. Peter Boylan, the former master of the National Maternity Hospital. He gave expert evidence that suggests the real problem is with the law and the lack of legal clarity. It shows us that X case legislation may not go far enough and that the problem lies with the wording of the eighth amendment and the serious difficulty-----

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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With respect to all sides, we are not having a debate.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader without interruption.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, it is not appropriate to have a debate when the Deputy Leader is introducing her view on something and when no one else can respond. There are ways of having a proper debate in a respectful way-----

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I am responding to-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader is responding to the questions raised by the House. Please allow the Deputy Leader to proceed without interruption.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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I think the Deputy Leader is abusing her position to some degree.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Darragh O'Brien, I am responding to-----

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik is referring to a pro-abortion doctor. He sent his sister-in-law in here during the health committee hearings. The man's opinion on the issue is on the record.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader is responding to questions.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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She is very selective.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
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It is a sensitive issue and it is not appropriate for the Deputy Leader to use the response to a request for a debate to expand upon her own point of view.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Deputy Darragh O'Brien should resume his seat.

David Norris (Independent)
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She is entitled to respond.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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As Deputy Leader of the House, I ask for respect. I am responding to an issue raised by a colleague.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik is giving her own opinion, which is pro-abortion.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Can we have the Deputy Leader without interruption?

David Norris (Independent)
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I ask Senator Walsh to withdraw that deeply offensive remark. It is a disgrace and Senator Walsh is a disgrace. I ask for it to be withdrawn. Will the Cathaoirleach ask him to withdraw it?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I did not hear the remark.

David Norris (Independent)
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I did, and he said the Deputy Leader of the House was pro-abortion. It was very clear, he said it and I ask him to withdraw it.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I call the Deputy Leader, allow her to proceed without interruption.

David Norris (Independent)
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Will the Cathaoirleach ask him to withdraw it?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I did not hear what the Senator said.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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If I said it, I would not withdraw it because it would be true.

David Norris (Independent)
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Did the Cathaoirleach hear that? Was it clear enough?

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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We are allowed to speak the truth in this House.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I ask that the Cathaoirleach assert some respect for the role of the Deputy Leader of the House.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, as the inquest is under way, Senator Bacik should not prejudice the outcome of the inquest.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not a point of order. The Deputy Leader is responding to questions raised in the House.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry, this is a serious matter. She is prejudicing the outcome of an inquest in Galway.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The record of the House will show the points raised this morning.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The record will show very serious statements. It should be brought to the attention of the coroner.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Leyden raised issues this morning and the Deputy Leader is trying to respond to the questions raised by Members. We should have some respect.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I did not refer to an inquest under way in Galway.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Can House have respect for the Deputy Leader, who is responding to the questions raised?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The coroner should be informed of her statements.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The record of the House will show that the longest response I have given and will give is the response on the agriculture issue, the fodder crisis in farming, which was raised by the majority of people who spoke. I gave a full response directly from the Minister. That is the way in which I am seeking to respond to every colleague in the House in a courteous and fulsome way, to deal fully with the issues raised and to respond in an appropriate way. As a lawyer, I take strong objection to the suggestion that I am in some way overstepping the line. I take that very seriously.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik is.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik is.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I will be raising the issue with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I will also be raising issues about personal attacks because there have been many from the other side of the House----

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Were they on Senator Bacik?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Not just on me. Political attacks are one thing but to make attacks on people is another issue.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We can say whatever we like about people.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bacik selected one piece of evidence-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Leyden, we will now hear from the Deputy Leader as she finishes up.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I have quite a bit more, as many other colleagues raised issues that deserve a response. I will deal with the issues unless colleagues want me not to respond. The role of the Deputy Leader is to respond to queries raised. Senator O'Keeffe raised the issue of the need for an independent inquiry into the death of Savita Halappanavar and there are issues raised on the evidence presented at the inquest.

Senator O'Keeffe also raised the issue of the young Senators event next Tuesday, 23 April, from 12.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. We should commend Senator O'Keeffe on the immense work done on initiating the proposal for a great event. Some 45 students from different counties will come into the Chamber to experience what it is like to be a legislator. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn, and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, will attend and I know colleagues will be very supportive of the endeavour. All colleagues are invited to attend and I commend Senator O'Keeffe on taking the initiative.

Senators Mooney and Mullins also referred to the fodder crisis, which I have dealt with. Senator Norris referred to the Iona Institute submission to the Constitutional Convention, which he said mis-cited a report entitled Child Trends from 2002. The authors of the report placed a disclaimer on the front saying it was not to be cited in debates on marriage equality.

Senator Norris said that that organisation has communicated its concern to the convention that it was misreported or mis-cited in its submission to it. I share the Senator's concerns and I will be happy to pass them on to the convention.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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The Deputy Leader might also contact the Iona Institute. It would be interesting to hear what it has to say on the matter.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader, without interruption, please.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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The institute might take a different view of what Senator Norris said.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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That would not suit Senator Bacik's agenda.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is a matter then for the convention to make a response.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please allow the Deputy Leader to continue without interruption.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Norris asked me to contact the convention and I will do as he has asked.

Senator Comiskey raised the issue of the fodder crisis. The Labour Party is always happy to hear Senator Leyden's pearls of wisdom on the internal affairs of the Labour Party. It was a lot of hot air.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Gilmore gale.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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That will blow out.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Senator Quinn raised the issue of lung fibrosis. While it is not an issue of which I am aware I would be grateful if he could pass on the details to me which I, in turn, will pass on to the Minister for Health as it would appear to be a serious matter. While as the Senator stated only a small number of people in the country will be affected, it is nonetheless an important issue. As in the case of the issue raised by Senator Norris, I will pass on the information on the issue raised by Senator Quinn to the Minister for Health.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised concerns about the direct provision system, on which he and other Senators have previously called for a debate. I will again request the Minister to come to the House for a debate on that issue. I am aware of the briefing today by the Irish Refugee Council, Doras Luimni and AkiDwa on direct provision, which I will attend. I am sure other Senators will also attend it.

Senator Noone raised the issue of financial advisers and borrowers in distress, which matter might well be dealt with as part of the general debate on banking sought by other Senators. Senator Walsh asked that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, come to the House for a debate on the second Croke Park agreement. The comments made yesterday by the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister, Deputy Howlin, illustrate the need for a period of reflection, on both sides, to consider what should be the response on this issue. There is a consciousness among parties, particularly on the Government side, and on the part of those unions which urged a "Yes" vote that the core of the agreement is worth saving, in particular the need to protect core pay of public servants earning less than €65,000, as per the agreement. It is important to point out that some unions had negotiated separate sectoral arrangements, which were agreed by members. It is too soon to ask the Minister, Deputy Howlin, to come to this House for a debate on that matter. I hope we will see a further phase of negotiation. I believe that is quite likely.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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What about the debate on housing aids for the elderly and grants for disabled people?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader without interruption please.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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We can invite the Minister, Deputy Howlin, to the House when that period has ended. Senator Walsh can ask that the Minister, Deputy Howlin, come to the House for a debate on the issues he raised.

Senator Wilson seconded Senator Barrett's amendment, which I have already accepted. He also called for a debate with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, on the Garda Síochána and policing. The specific issue of the barracks in Cavan might well be a matter more suitably raised on the Adjournment. Senator Wilson also raised the issue of security for the G8 meeting in Fermanagh, which he has raised previously and to which he received a response. There has been a great deal of communication between the Garda Síochána and Police Service of Northern Ireland on this issue. I am sure adequate security arrangements will be put in place for that important meeting being held in Fermanagh, which we welcome. It is a huge boost not alone for Fermanagh but the entire region.

Senator Ó Domhnaill also raised the issue of policing. I believe he withdrew his personalised attack on the Minister, Deputy Shatter.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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It was not a personalised attack, it was a matter of fact.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Please allow the Deputy Leader to continue without interruption.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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They are attacking our party.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I suggest the Deputy Leader have a cup of green tea and calm down.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader without interruption please.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Suffice to say that all of us in this House have immense respect for the Garda Síochána. To suggest that anyone in this House or the Dáil has contempt for the Garda Síochána is utter nonsense.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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Ask the gardaí and the unions.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Deputy Leader without interruption please.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I have worked on the front line in criminal law for many years. I have enormous respect and admiration for the dangerous work done by gardaí.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We all have great respect for them.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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It is outrageous to suggest that anyone in this House, in particular those with knowledge of the law, would have contempt for the Garda Síochána. It is utterly outrageous to suggest that.

Senator White raised the issue of the fodder crisis, to which I have already responded adequately.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Barrett has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 14 be taken before No. 1." The Deputy Leader has accepted the amendment. Is the amendment agreed? Agreed.

Senator O'Donovan has also moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate on the current crisis in farming be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Under Standing Order 62(3)(b) I request that the division be taken again other than by electronic means.