Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Finance Bill 2013 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 6 p.m.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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We will not be opposing the Order of Business. I raise two issues. First, in recent days we saw the result of the civil action regarding the bombing in Omagh, County Tyrone. It is a different jurisdiction but it might be useful to have a discussion on the outcome of that case to determine the options, if any, that are available to authorities in this jurisdiction. That bombing was one of the biggest single atrocities in the Troubles, and it would be worthy of this jurisdiction to acknowledge what happened in Northern Ireland in that regard and at least explore the options that may be available to us.

Second, I ask the Leader for an early debate on the insolvency guidelines issued today. Some of the headlines in today's broadsheets and tabloid newspapers suggest that they balance fairness with mercy but as mentioned in the House yesterday, the chief executive officer of Bank of Ireland, which is effectively an insolvent bank bailed out by the people, earns some ¤850,000 per year. Under these insolvency guidelines, members of rural families who need two cars to go about their daily business may be forced, under these insolvency guidelines, to have only one, give up their health insurance, and have determined their television packages. Do we have similar terms and conditions for people in receipt of social welfare?

In all of our deliberations in the context of mortgage arrears and the debt crisis, the institution has always come first and the people have always come last. I made these points to the Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, in a calm fashion yesterday, and we will do what we can to make them again today with the Minister, Deputy Noonan, but at some stage the people must come first. I am concerned because despite the announcement last week on what the Government intends to do about the mortgage arrears crisis, we see that the banks are still in control. We now have an insolvency service that will give people already struggling a list of "do's" and "don'ts" when the bailed out banks, and the CEOs on ¤850,000 a year, are allowed operate to a different set of rules.

In anybody's book, that is unfair. We must do something about it.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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Like Senator MacSharry, I refer to the high salaries earned by banking executives although I point out that there were different rules for people who were close to Fianna Fáil during the last Administration. We should not forget that. I thank Senator Conway for yesterday's debate on restorative justice although I was disappointed that there were so few people here. It was a very worthwhile debate. One of the issues raised was the high level of alcohol-related problems of the young men who came through the restorative justice programme in Tallaght. I raised and raise again the issue of alcohol and ask the Leader for a debate. I spoke about the need for joined-up thinking. When one sees the statistics on alcohol in a restorative justice programme, one realises yet again that we continue to need to tackle the problem of the below-cost selling of alcohol. In the recent public consultation committee report put together by the Seanad, Members called for a minimum floor price for alcohol and for the implementation of section 9 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act which would separate the sale of alcohol from groceries. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Health to the House for a further debate on alcohol. It is a problem across a wide range of activities. A practical measure people involved in restorative justice would ask for is legislation to increase the price of alcohol or impose levies on it.

I thank the Leader and the Cathaoirleach for their assistance and co-operation with my initiative, young Senators day, which will take place in the House on 23 April 2013. Hundreds of essays were received from transition year students on the future of Ireland or on how they feel the leaving certificate affects their lives. Senators Jim D'Arcy, van Turnhout, Barrett and I have been judging the entries over the last few days. It has been great to read the essays and to see teenagers' views of Ireland and the leaving certificate. I am delighted that 45 young people will be in the House on 23 April 2013 and will have the Seanad for a matter of hours. They will have an order of business and will make their own presentations to the Minister for Education and Skills and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. I look forward to the day and the support of other Senators for the initiative. It is the first time it has been run.

I wish Twitter a happy birthday. It is seven years old today and has 500 million users. Some Members may not have had Twitter at their disposal seven years ago, but now we can all enjoy or not what it offers.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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I am delighted to see that Fianna Fáil has finally nailed its colours to the mast in calling for transfers from Sinn Féin in the by-election in Meath. It proves that Fianna Fáil will enter coalition with anybody.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Except Fine Gael.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The people should be aware.

A Senator:

You must be getting worried.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Not that worried.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael is in with the Workers' Party.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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There was a great deal of debate in the House on the Water Services (Amendment) Act 2012. I congratulate the 430,000 people nationally - representing 86% of people - who have registered their septic tanks. The counties most opposed to the legislation were Donegal and Galway. I congratulate Senator Ó Clochartaigh on the 35,000 people who have registered in Galway and Senator Ó Domhnaill on the 21,500 who have registered in Donegal. Special mention should be made of Kerry where 100% of people have registered their septic tanks. We found 500 houses that we did not even know existed. The Leader should note this as it is protecting our groundwater and will prevent the EU from fining us and imposing sanctions.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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We saw in Cyprus this week what happens when a bailout puts a country's finances in the hands of the troika. We saw it also when we lost control some years ago. I mention this as once the troika turns a magnifying glass on a country which owes it money, it can identify areas in which it believes savings should be made. This is where water charges, property taxes and a number of other measures have come from. It happens once a country loses control. I mention this in the context of figures published last week on free travel. There are 3 million adults in Ireland, of whom 1.1 million receive free travel. There are not 1.1 million people who deserve free travel. This has happened because of add-ons. The figures published last week are based on 1973 statistics. No update is available.

I worry that free travel which is so worthy of support and is identified as a benefit to citizens will come under scrutiny to the extent that we begin to lose it due to overspending. I do not know how 1.1 million people have acquired permission for free travel. While I realise that those who are not able to travel on their own are allowed to travel with a partner, it seems to me that the scheme has got out of hand. When the scheme was introduced it cost very little. It was based solely on the time of day when buses and trains were travelling anyway. While I am delighted that the terms were later relaxed, we have gone very far. It is worthwhile to determine what has caused the cost to become so high that it may well place the whole scheme in jeopardy.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe referred to legislation to curb the abuse of alcohol. It had not dawned on me before Senator O'Keeffe raised the issue, but I note that a minimum price would be welcomed greatly by the producers of alcohol. They would love to see the price go up to provide them with more profit. On that basis, I question if it is the ideal answer. There must be a very good answer to the difficulties of alcohol abuse but I am not sure it is to give more profit to alcohol producers.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I find myself in agreement to an extent with Senator MacSharry. I deal on a daily basis with people who have significant mortgage arrears. Despite talk of green shoots and economic improvement, they do not really see any light at the end of the tunnel. There is fatigue among the general population, particularly among those with mortgage arrears. They want to see real action on insolvency. It is time to bring this phoney war to an end. It will only be when we see the proof of the pudding that we will be able to tell people that there is a real end in sight. I also heard Pat Kenny's programme today. It is clear that there is a level of utter despair out there. It behoves us to send a clear message to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, that we need to see real action. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister to come to the House to discuss mortgage arrears and explain the specifics he has in mind to bring this desperate situation to an end.

There will shortly be a review of rent supplement levels. I have made the following point before. The rent supplement situation is causing severe issues in urban areas in particular. The rents being charged far exceed the rent supplement limits available. A recent study by the Citizen's Information Centre showed that in my area of Dún Laoghaire there was not a single property available at the rent supplement caps.

I ask that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, come to the House to hear its views on the rent supplement system.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Four years ago this week a motion was tabled in the Dáil, supported by Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, calling on the then Fianna Fáil-Green Party Government to reduce bankers' pay, bonuses and pensions to ¤250,000. The only people who opposed the motion were Deputies Micheál Martin and Michael McGrath and the now Senator Thomas Byrne, members of Fianna Fáil and the Green Party. Four years on and two years into the life of this Government, the publication of the Mercer report shows that bankers' pay, bonuses, pensions and total remuneration packages have increased over the past two years. People in negative equity, who are really struggling, have to look on at the lottery-type figures that these guys in banks that were bailed out with taxpayers' money are receiving. This not just a cause of irritation; it angers people that senior bankers in banks in which we have shares, albeit a minority holding, receive these sums. It is absolutely wrong. During the course of that debate, Deputies Kenny and Gilmore accused the Fianna Fáil Government of bottling out of dealing with bankers' pay, yet four years later and two years into the life of their Government, we still see these excessive levels of pay. When will we see action on this issue? It is important that we have a debate on this.

I support the calls made by other Senators about other issues affecting people. When people receive their property tax notices they will look at the excessive salaries of these bankers and former politicians who caused the problems and will not see any real action taken to deal with them, yet they will have to pay property tax and suffer the tough budgets. It is not on. It is about time the Government delivered on the commitment its party members made when they voted for that motion in the Dáil four years ago and stood up for the people. It must ensure that the people who run the banks that were recapitalised with taxpayers' money are on fair and acceptable salaries. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on this important issue.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I am concerned about the inadequacy of replies given on Adjournment debates. I wrote to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges on this matter, expressing the view that if there is an inadequate response the Leader and the Cathaoirleach should ask the senior Minister in the relevant Department to come before the person who tabled the matter on the Adjournment. If the Departments continue to give inadequate answers, as they have been doing, I would question whether there is any need for this Chamber. I hear all the time about how important this Chamber is but it seems it is not remotely important when we hear the answers that come from certain Departments. The Department of Education and Skills is the worst. I described it as similar to the old Soviet Politburo because it operates on a need-to-know basis and it decides who needs to know what. We should take this on in a serious manner, because we have not yet attempted to do anything about it.

If this Chamber is serious about being relevant it should clear all business before it and ask the Minister for Health and Children to come in here for an in-depth, informative and possibly open-ended debate about the destruction of the Guthrie cards. This could lead to deaths. That is how serious the issue is.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We should show solidarity with the wonderful people of the beautiful island of Cyprus. Its Government was prepared, under instruction from the troika and others, to steal up to 10% of the people's savings. This reminds us of the pressures the former Minister for Finance, the late Brian Lenihan and the former Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, were under in 2008 when they gave a guarantee that savings worth up to ¤100,000 would be protected, even though there was a possible run on the banks at that stage with Joe Duffy's show and others promoting the withdrawal of funds. They resisted this pressure. We should recognise their strength and the work they did in resisting those pressures. The current Government committed to burning the bondholders but instead has given them bonuses. In 2008 individual shareholders in AIB, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB lost out significantly, but the people with savings were not affected.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator calling for a debate?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am calling on the Minister for Finance to clarify why the finance Ministers were prepared to put this pressure on Cyprus. I want to recall and recognise the contribution of our Government at that time to saving the small savers of this country, because they were not prepared, like the Cypriot Government, to grab their savings. We should show solidarity with and support the people of Cyprus at this difficult time. I hope the Minister for Finance will do this too.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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Today is the eighth World Down Syndrome day. We should send a message to the parents and families of people with Down's syndrome thanking them for the support they have given them over the past 20 years. Services have developed to support those who have Down's syndrome. We should also thank those with Down's syndrome for the joy they bring to their families, which they have done for many years. There has been progress in recognising that they have a very valuable contribution to make to our society.

I support Senator Michael D'Arcy's call for a debate on Guthrie cards. I am meeting some of the medical people again today in respect of this matter. Time is running out. The deadline is 31 March. Senators should encourage as many people as possible to apply for the retention of their own Guthrie cards because that is the only way to stop their destruction. I have spoken to the Leader on this matter. I join my colleague's call for a debate and encourage the Minister to meet the people who have expertise in this area, such as Professor John Crowe and members of the Royal College of Physicians, who were not consulted in this matter or the decision.

John Kelly (Labour)
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I will not be here next week so I want to take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to Jimmy Walsh of The Irish Times in his retirement with effect from next week. He has been a good friend of this House and when no other journalist covered events here Jimmy did. I have no doubt he will have a very active retirement because anyone who knows Jimmy knows that he rarely sits still. He is always racing and chasing around the Houses. I wish him well in his retirement.

I want to raise the absolute waste of money in many aspects of the operation of the HSE. A year ago a lady asked me if I could speed up a hospital appointment. I made representations and she thanked me two weeks later when she got confirmation of her appointment. She received the confirmation eight times in eight separate letters.

Lo and behold, and I thought the practice had gone away, my son was called for an appointment next week at a hospital in the western region three times in three separate envelopes. In those two cases, there was an overspend of 550%. There is a serious waste of money and if this is replicated across the HSE we need to look at the way it does its business. I call for a debate with every Member contributing. We construe many other aspects of HSE operations as a waste of money. It is time Members in this House confronted it.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I join Senator Kelly in expressing my good wishes to Mr. Jimmy Walsh, who has given great, unremitting service in this House. He is to be congratulated for it, as is The Irish Times. He is a very erudite man and a great companion and he will be a great loss around the House. I ask the Leader and the Whips to ensure his departure is marked in an appropriate manner.

I intended to raise a matter on the Adjournment but it was ruled out of order. Like Senator Michael D'Arcy, I am disappointed but I remind the Leader of the woefully inadequate situation in rural railway stations when people have to cross from one platform to another. I raised it some weeks ago and I was quite surprised at the response from people around the country and it resonated with several councillors who had the same issue. People who come off the train in Charleville and wish to exit from the other platform have no way other than to mount a steep metal stairway onto a bridge and come down an equally steep stairway on the other side. It is a challenge to anyone from middle age onwards and it is a major challenge to elderly people, especially when we remember that most are carrying luggage. In the more sophisticated stations, there is a lift apparatus but in many rural stations there is no lift. I wanted the Minister to come in and talk about it but apparently it is not under his jurisdiction. I can only raise it on the Order of Business and I ask the Leader to bring it to the attention of the Government. Perhaps some scheme can be rolled out so that elderly people do not have the fear of railway stations they have at the moment. I am not saying the scheme needs to be done overnight.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I salute Mr. Jimmy Walsh and please God we will have a suitable occasion next week to mark his retirement and pay tribute to him.

I acknowledge the efforts of everyone involved in the serious mortgage arrears crisis. A range of options are available. The banks have not properly or fully acknowledged their contribution to this mess. As a last resort, they must be prepared to act as landlord and allow families to continue living in the home as tenants. There is no question of repossession. That can be arranged.

I am also concerned about the banks' dealings with business. They are appointing trigger-happy receivers without any notice. I referred to this point briefly yesterday when discussing the Finance Bill. The receivers are going into businesses without any prior notice. This adds to the distress of the situation. It is unforgivable where the business has a proper business plan and has proved itself to be profitable despite its debts to the financial institution. I am proposing a break point and for Credit Review Office involvement through a mandatory referral. The idea of businesses being taken by surprise with the appointment of receivers is scandalous. We are out to protect jobs but they are being put at risk because of this practice. Perhaps the Leader can fit in a debate in early course after Easter on involving the Credit Review Office through a mandatory referral on the appointment of any receiver. I am thinking primarily of the SME sector.

James Heffernan (Labour)
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I concur with Senator Ned O'Sullivan's remarks concerning Charleville train station. I am familiar with it because it is the closest train station to me and perhaps the problem is that there is no train station in County Limerick since Kilmallock and Knocklong stations closed. Perhaps the Minister can look into this and deliver a train station for us.

I go along with the remarks of Senator Ned O'Sullivan and others yesterday during the Order of Business on the success of Irish horseracing last week in Cheltenham. It was a tremendous week for all involved in Irish racing, including owners, trainers, jockeys, stable hands, yard men and those who provide food. It showcased Ireland as the market leader in the field. We are the best in the world at this and the industry needs to continue being supported. The Leader is very familiar with the industry through travelling to point-to-point races in his previous life. A young man from an area not far away from where I come from, whose people live near me, has been a tremendous servant to Irish horseracing and has made a massive contribution in point-to-point and amateur riding. Mr. John Thomas McNamara suffered a horrific fall at Cheltenham and the thoughts and prayers of all involved in racing are with Mr. McNamara and his family, close relatives and friends. I speak for other Members in the Chamber in this regard. We send our best wishes to him as he begins a very difficult and long recovery.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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All of us would like to be associated with the remarks Senator James Heffernan and to wish Mr. John Thomas McNamara speedy recovery.

Following up on the comments of Senator Quinn on the free travel scheme, there is widespread abuse of the system. It is because of a lack of security in the documentation. It is far too easy to forge documentation. There is no photographic identification on the travel pass and no way of proving the person travelling is the person who owns the travel pass. It throws up the issue of social welfare fraud and I asked the Leader for a debate on social welfare fraud and, particularly, social welfare tourism. Recently, three people entered the country on a Ryanair flight to Dublin Airport and visited three post offices in three counties. They left the country with ¤7,000 and made arrangements for transport to take them to the same locations in a month's time. I am told this is quite common and we need a debate with the Minister for Social Protection. We need to see what processes and procedures are in place to stamp this out. Whatever identification system we have is not working. We need to use fingerprinting to identify people and ensure that the name and photograph of people claiming benefits at the post office comes up on a screen. If there is duplication, which has happened on more than one occasion, it should be identified immediately. This is a major issue and, at a time when everyone is feeling the pinch and the State needs all its resources to fund badly needed services, we need to stamp out this practice.

Will the Leader organise this debate as soon as possible after the Easter recess?

David Norris (Independent)
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I join my colleagues in saluting Jimmy Walsh. I regret his retirement as he had an acute political intelligence and humane values. He stuck with this House when every other newspaper skedaddled out of it. We will miss him and we need to ensure that The Irish Times, which calls itself the paper of record, continues to report on this House.

I welcome Senator Heffernan most heartily to these benches.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

David Norris (Independent)
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He is a splendid man. He is the only one from the Government side, apart from the Taoiseach's Independent nominees, who has shown the moral courage to cross the House to vote in favour of the ordinary people. If some of the others had his guts and courage, this House would have been saved, because it would have been shown to be on the side of the people.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

David Norris (Independent)
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I confidently predict that while Fine Gael may well get a belt of the ballot paper at the next election, the Labour Party will be wiped out. It will not be wiped out because of its socialism, but because of its lack of socialism.

Who is running this so-called democratic Europe? It is the banks and the ratings agencies. Where are the democratic elements that will stand up and tell the ECB to bugger off with itself? Where are the people who will stand in solidarity with the brave, decent people of Cyprus who have stood up to it? What is happening is appalling. It is appalling to see that the bully boys of the ECB are at it again. They did it to the unfortunate Brian Lenihan. He was wrong and I felt sorry for him. Now Deputy Noonan is our Minister for Finance and I expect we will have Deputy Brian Hayes, the Minister of State, in the House too. Like Brian Lenihan, Deputy Noonan is a good, decent person with similar skills of advocacy, but he is wrong also. Austerity does not work, will not work and cannot work. Even economists are coming around to this view. Why do we continue to punish our people in the interest of institutions and banks? This is unspeakable. Nobody, from the highest levels of the establishment down to the lowest, meanest Minister of State has shown solidarity and identified with the people of Ireland.

I would like to see some of these people visit soup kitchens. In a previous Seanad, somebody who held the position of Leader - not with the dignity, grace and political courage of Senator Cummins - made a fool of this House by proroguing it so that Members could go off and play golf. I suggest to the Leader that after Easter, we should suspend the Seanad for one day to allow us, as representatives of the people, visit the soup kitchens in Athlone, Tuam, Galway and anywhere else they spring up. If there is an eviction that day, we should go on a fleet of buses and stand in solidarity for once with the people of Ireland.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I would like to support the congratulations and good wishes to Jimmy Walsh. He has been a great servant of this House and I look forward to joining others next week in sending him on his way. We will certainly miss him.

I support Senator Mullins on what he has said here about potential welfare fraud. What he has outlined is very serious and I strongly encourage anyone associated with or who has knowledge of that fraud to report it, because these people are defrauding the entire country. There must be some people aware of what is going on, particularly if transport is being organised for it. I am reliably informed that a secure ID system is being rolled out across the country to resolve this issue, but it would be worthwhile to clarify the situation here with the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton.

My main reason for contributing today is to support those who have raised the issue of the debt situation that continues to haunt countries. Cyprus is now in difficulty and I wish it well. It held the Presidency of Europe immediately before Ireland and did a great job. I hope an agreement can be found between the ECB, the IMF and Cyprus so that Cypriots can live with some semblance of dignity and get on with their lives. Everyone needs to know this is possible.

When we look at the personal debt problems haunting at least half of our population, we know action is needed on the ground. We have the theory. We have the Personal Insolvency Bill and the Minister, Deputy Noonan, is giving the banks targets. However, I am concerned there is no action on the ground on debt resolution. I am aware MABS is carrying out training currently so that it can put some of the strategies and new approaches in place. However, it is so incredibly understaffed that it cannot possibly meet the needs of the droves of people who, now the banks are putting greater pressure on them need someone to whom they can turn. We heard Senator Coghlan speak about receivers working out of hours on this. We must ensure there are staff and appropriately trained counsellors ready to give them assistance.

I welcome the fact the Minister has given the banks targets to achieve. However, I am concerned about what they are offering to do. I am concerned that the record of people who have paid their debts and mortgages for 20 years will not necessarily be taken into account. The banks are only looking at the capacity of these people to pay now and into the future. People can fall on hard times if they lose their jobs, but if they have had a good record for 20 years, they should not be wiped off the screen in a matter of months. The banks must show some heart and we must stand with the people until this debt issue is resolved.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Ba mhaith liom mo thacaíocht a thabhairt do na gártha molta go Jimmy Walsh agus ba mhaith liom chuile ádh a ghuí air agus míle buíochas a ghlacadh leis as an seirbhís iontach a thugann sé agus ar thug sé le blianta fada anuas.

I find it quite ironic that Government Senators are standing up today and asking for a crackdown on social welfare fraud, when the Minister for Social Protection was in here and told us she was doing a great job cracking down on it.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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She is doing a great job.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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It is certainly time that anybody who is defrauding the system is brought to task. The Government Senators need to bring the Minister to task and ask why individual cases like those mentioned are not being tackled. If any of the Senators have information on those cases, they should be providing that information.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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They are being tackled.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Everybody relies on information.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Allow the Senator continue, without interruption.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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They should not be trying to insinuate that everybody on social welfare is in a similar situation.

The debate I would like to call for today concerns a serious issue. Many health issues are raised here on a daily basis, but we need a specific debate on the structure and management of the HSE. We need this debate so that we can make significant savings within the system. We had a wonderful, though harrowing, presentation yesterday in the AV room from a vascular surgeon from Galway, Sherif Sultan. He indicated that due to cutbacks in HSE west, an ArtAssist technology which could be used to ensure that people do not need to have their legs amputated has been cut back. That technology would cost a lot less than it would cost to bring people into the acute system and treat them. The cost of using the ArtAssist technology to treat a person would be ¤1,200 over the 90-day period needed to complete the treatment, whereas bringing the person into the acute system costs ¤60,000. The problem appears to be that the community sector management does not talk to the hospital management and they do not sit down together to sort out the issue.

We have a similar situation with regard to alcohol and addiction services in Galway. Reports have come from consultants that it costs hospitals approximately ¤6 million to deal with people who present themselves with problems that are alcohol related. At the same time, community services are suffering cutbacks in services dealing with alcohol addiction. This is a systemic problem and we need to examine it and the management of the HSE. We must consider why certain sections of the HSE do not discuss the issues with each other when they could save the HSE millions of euro within its budget. I would like the Minister, Deputy Reilly, to come to the House to discuss this. We can give him the specific details on these issues on that day. I am sure every Senator could raise management issues within the HSE, where the lack of a manager or where sections do not talk to each other leads to the waste of millions of euro. More importantly, we do not provide patients with the proper care they need within the services.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I do not know Jimmy Walsh for as long as some Senators know him, but I join them in wishing him a happy retirement and the good health to enjoy it.

Anybody who reads the Irish Daily Mail-----

David Norris (Independent)
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Include me out of that one.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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-----will find this week that a supplement in the newspaper is worth reading for those with some Irish who are interested in improving it, those who are interested in promoting Irish nó éinne cosúil liom féin a dhéanann iarracht ár dteanga féin a labhairt. It started on Sunday and it finishes tomorrow.

David Norris (Independent)
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That is how they grab people. I am sure Lord Rothermere is a big fan of the Irish language.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brennan, without interruption.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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The newspaper's initiative, which is being taken in conjunction with Foras na Gaeilge, will encourage young children to have a greater interest in our Irish language and will make it easier for them and their parents to learn Irish.

David Norris (Independent)
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If they read the Irish Daily Mail, what else will it encourage them to do?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Ciúnas, le do thoil.

David Norris (Independent)
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Is cinnte é sin. Ciúnas from the Irish Daily Mail would be a good idea.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator, you have already exceeded your quota. I was very lenient with you. Do not interrupt Senator Brennan.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am being seriously provoked, but I apologise.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brennan provokes nobody.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Norris is not provoked as often as I am in this House.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should continue. His time is slipping quickly.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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Many everyday Irish phrases are included for the benefit of young people, to be used when they rise in the morning and go to school, when they are at school and in the schoolyard, and when they are at home in the evening ag déanamh a gcuid ceachtanna. Is leabhair bheaga iontacha iad. I encourage everybody to read these books, regardless of whether they like the Irish Daily Mail, as a means of doing their bit to revitalise the language. It is a wonderful initiative. I believe every one of us has a part to play in ensuring our language does not die. It is the only thing that makes a difríocht between Ireland and aon tír eile.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Several Members of the House have commented on the Common Agricultural Policy reform proposals in recent days. It is vital for this House to be kept fully informed about the deal that has been agreed in Brussels. The detail of that deal has yet to be unfolded. The president of the IFA, John Bryan, will be greeted by a protest in my home town of Drumshanbo tonight. It is unfortunate that the farming lobby seems to be split down the middle on this issue. Small and medium-sized farmers, of whom there are many in my part of the country, are heavily critical of the IFA because they perceive that it is looking after the interests of the big ranch farmers. The decision by IFA members from several counties in the north west to hold tonight's protest is an indication of how big the split is. While I have the greatest respect and admiration for John Bryan, I believe he has serious questions to answer about the perceived direction his IFA colleagues have taken in supporting the retention of higher payments for a small number of farmers whom they deem to be more productive than those they refer to as "inactive" farmers. The definitions of both categories have not been clarified.

I come from a part of the country where farmers live on marginal land. Some 98% of the land in County Leitrim is marginal. The same thing applies in parts of west Cavan, north Roscommon and Sligo. The payments received by the vast majority of small and medium-sized farmers are the lifeblood of the nation. It is not just a question of giving subsidies to farmers. Consumers should be aware that the single farm payment system is a subsidy that is keeping farm prices down in the food sector. That is another issue altogether. This payment is vitally important in the interests of small and medium-sized farmers across the country. There are small farmers in County Kilkenny and in the Golden Vale who receive little more than ¤10,000 a year and are being put to the pin of their collars to keep their families and their farms viable.

I will conclude by reminding the House that small and medium-sized farmers have comprised the backbone of the Irish economy for generations. The money they receive from Europe trickles down into local economies and sustains many towns and villages across the country. It is vitally important for the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to keep the House fully informed of exactly what the Government means when it says this agreement gives it flexibility in deciding how to redistribute these moneys.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Aontaím leis an Seanadóir Brennan go gcaithfimid comhghairdeas a ghabháil leis an Irish Daily Mail mar gheall ar an leabhrán iontach, Gaschaint, atá sa nuachtán an tseachtain seo. Molaim éinne ar bith a dhéanann a dhícheall nó a dícheall chun an teanga a chur chun cinn.

David Norris (Independent)
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Rubbish.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Ba mhaith liom rud eile a rá mar gheall ar an bpáipéar agus mé ag caint faoin Ghaeilge.

David Norris (Independent)
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Bruscar.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Caithfimid moladh a thabhairt d'éinne a dhéanann aon iarracht ar son na teanga.

David Norris (Independent)
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We can save the teanga without buying the Irish Daily Mail.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Ba mhaith liom freisin comhghairdeas a dhéanamh le Jimmy Walsh as ucht an méid atá déanta aige sa seomra seo thar na blianta. Dhein sé a dhícheall i gcónaí chun ábhair an tSeanaid a chur chun cinn sna nuachtáin. I thank Jimmy Walsh, whom I have known for just a short time. I admire him and agree with whoever said he is a class act. He will be a difficult act to follow. I thank Jimmy Walsh for what he has done. If more people reported on what happens in this House, maybe people would appreciate it. We have heard many fine speeches from the Opposition today on the theme of negativity. Senator Norris speaks eloquently and negatively about everything that happens.

David Norris (Independent)
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Rubbish. Try to tell the truth.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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I propose that we should all put our heads together one day to see what we can actually do for this country; ask not what shall be done for you or whatever-----

David Norris (Independent)
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Rubbish followed by cliche.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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What can we do? We are supposed to be leaders.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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We can do what the politicians in Cyprus did.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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We are supposed to come up with ideas-----

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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They stood up for their people.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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-----but we do not always do so.

David Norris (Independent)
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I invite the Senator to have a look back at my record and see what I have said over the last five or ten years.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris-----

David Norris (Independent)
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I got it right, unlike Senator Keane's colleagues and those who were in government before them.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris, please.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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I can only-----

David Norris (Independent)
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It is not my responsibility if Senator Keane's ears were closed when I spoke.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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-----speak on the basis of Senator Norris's record since I came into this House.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Is Senator Keane calling for a debate?

David Norris (Independent)
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That is not true either. I ask the Senator to withdraw that.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris-----

David Norris (Independent)
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I have congratulated the Government when it has been entitled to congratulations.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris-----

David Norris (Independent)
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It is simply not true to say I am always negative. I demand that Senator Keane withdraws it.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris, resume your seat.

David Norris (Independent)
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I want to be protected.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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You have continuously-----

David Norris (Independent)
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Will you direct Senator Keane to withdraw her comments?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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If the Senator does not resume his seat, I will ask him to leave the House.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am a Member of this House and I am entitled to be treated with the respect that is shown to other people.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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You have shown disrespect to me five times today. Please resume your seat.

David Norris (Independent)
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Five times.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Yes. I have taken note of it. I was very liberal in giving you three and half minutes, to which you are not entitled, when you spoke. You have interrupted me on five occasions.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Please have manners and respect the Chair.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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I want to get on to the positive news that was announced yesterday. The use of the Oncotype DX cancer test, in the cases of 300 people, has saved the HSE ¤856,000 in one year. Ireland was the first country in Europe to use this test to elucidate whether cancer patients need chemotherapy. Approximately 50% of women who were tested avoided the need for chemotherapy. It has saved lives. Senators know what people go through when they are subjected to chemotherapy. Irish patients are more likely to benefit from early chemotherapy and hormonal treatment as a result of the use of this test. Ireland was the first country in Europe to use it. The first result was announced yesterday by the Minister, Deputy Reilly. He congratulated the doctors who were involved. He advised that this be used more widely. Senator Kelly spoke about patients who have been sent three or four letters. That is a bad waste of money. A new system, whereby patients can be texted, is coming on stream. Many patients do not turn up for appointments. They waste hospital money. The Minister is trying to redress this.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Tá an t-am istigh.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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The HSE obviously loses money when people do not turn up. It is trying to make sure they turn up.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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There is bad management as well.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. I agree. I hope the new texting system will counteract all of that. The other good news is that the practice of giving 30 or 40 patients appointments for the same time - 11 o'clock, for example - is to be ended.

That is a waste of people's money and is bad management, and it is changing as well. I agree with Senator Norris-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is well over time. I call Senator Moloney.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
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I want to add my voice to the good wishes to Mr. Jimmy Walsh on his retirement. As other speakers have said, he has given the House excellent coverage in the newspapers. I thank him for that and wish him every happiness.

On a number of occasions on the Order of Business and on social welfare debates in the House, I have raised the issue of people who are on illness benefit and applying for invalidity pension being required to submit their P45 when they make an application. I want to clarify that this has now been rectified and is no longer a requirement. The requirement to submit the P45 was causing bother to people because their jobs were being kept open for them. I met Department officials on a number of occasions on this matter, and it has been rectified.

In the Leader's absence some two weeks ago, I asked the Acting Leader to arrange time on the schedule to discuss the abolition of the mobility allowance. We could have a cross-party discussion in the House. We do not need a Minister to do this as we can do it ourselves, just as we did with regard to the jobs initiative. Can we please put time on the schedule to discuss this so we can make a submission and present it to the working group that is addressing the problem at present? I believe it is imperative that a monetary payment is retained by the people who are currently in receipt of this payment. Surely to God, with all the advisers and legal advice we have, and with all the big money they are being paid, somebody can come up with a solution. Many Members would have proposals and we would collate all of their proposals and ideas and present them to the working group.

We are not sitting on the Tuesday after Easter but I am quite willing to come in on that Tuesday afternoon if we cannot find another time in the schedule for it. It is an important issue. The schedule this week was not very heavy and we could have fitted it in somewhere. As I said, we do not need a Minister to do it. I ask the Leader to consider this.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I would also like to pay tribute to Mr. Jimmy Walsh. Jimmy would be fairly described as a master of the accurate paraphrase. Despite our best intentions around here, we do not always manage to say exactly what we mean in precise English prose, and it has been Jimmy's task to be relentless in the pursuit of accuracy. I am sure, like others, I have been occasionally approached with the question: "Does this accurately convey what you are saying?" Jimmy always manages to do this very accurately. That is a particular skill and one that other journalists could and should emulate - the desire to be exactly right, precise and fair to the speaker and to the subject of comments. Jimmy Walsh deserves great credit for that. It is over 40 years since he first reported from this House.

I want to raise an issue I have raised before. While the Leader gave me a response at the time, I could not locate it when I checked the record this morning. It concerns the issue of unpaid development levies to local authorities. We are reminded today of what I said previously in the House, namely, councils throughout the country are owed ¤750 million in development levies. This is a remarkable issue when we think that these unpaid levies were normally required to be paid before construction work began, or at least on a phased basis, yet it so happens there is this vast amount of money unpaid. This is, of course, a result of the bursting of the property bubble, but where was the stewardship that allowed the situation to develop?

On a previous occasion, I raised the stated intention of Wicklow County Council to pursue homeowners in a number of estates for sums of up to ¤5,000 where the developer of the estate had failed to pay the relevant levy. There may very well be issues here in regard to how solicitors did their business and whether they have exposed their clients to strict legal liability. However, it seems to me there is a justice issue where local authorities failed to collect levies either on time or at all. It cannot simply be the case that people could be gone after for unmanageable sums of money.

This should be of interest and concern to the Executive. I would be grateful if we could arrange for the Minister to address this issue in the House at an early opportunity. Perhaps he was here and I missed it, but I do not believe it has been discussed in this House since I raised it last.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I have great respect for Senator Norris. I am halfway through his excellent autobiography at the moment and my admiration for him has increased. I know his journey is a courageous journey. He is being a bit unruly this morning------

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Do not provoke the man again.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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He sounds just like my children when they come looking for tickets for One Direction or Bon Jovi and they say: "This austerity is not working, Dad." I say: "It is like this. We have to get the structural deficit right so we can secure our future." At the end of the day, it is about securing the future for our children and our children's children.

Last Wednesday morning, the Criminal Assets Bureau, backed by 300 officers as well as military personnel on both sides of the Border, launched a wave of raids under the cover of darkness on almost 20 premises to try to deal with the fuel laundering. It was a massively successful operation. The CAB believes the diesel laundering ring it hit with simultaneous raids is the largest and most complex operation that has been busted to date. I would like to congratulate everybody involved.

I would also like to point out that the political response to diesel laundering has come from the Seanad. Senator Terry Brennan raised it, Senator John Whelan put down a motion on it and I also put down a motion which was well discussed in the House. We have had the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, to the House on a number of occasions and he promised he would work hard to deal with it. Now, it has finally been tackled. I would like us to invite the Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, to the House again to give us an update because it was his reports that made progress in registering this issue. We should have him in again to give us a full report because now is not the time to stop. We must continue until this criminal activity is done away with and wiped out for good.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Well said.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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Like other colleagues, I wish Mr. Jimmy Walsh well in his retirement. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House for an update on what progress, if any, has been made in regard to the ongoing difficulties in An Garda Síochána. As I pointed out to the House on a number of occasions, morale is at an all-time low within the police force of this State and the situation is only going to get more difficult for ordinary rank and file gardaí if the difficulties that exist are not sorted out.

I ask the Leader to clarify a report in today's newspaper that people who choose to pay the household charge through the post office will have to pay an additional charge for the privilege of doing so. If that is correct, I consider it totally unacceptable.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry raised the question of the civil action in regard to the Omagh bombing. I am sure it is the wish of everybody in the House that the perpetrators of this dreadful act would be brought to justice.

I am sure the matter will be discussed at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.

I outlined the situation concerning the salary of the CEO of Bank of Ireland in detail yesterday in a response. The salary of this CEO was agreed in 2009 under the previous Government. Caps have been set for the other CEOs in AIB and Permanent TSB since this Government came to office. We have taken action in respect of salaries and will continue to take further action when it is necessary.

Senators O'Keeffe and Quinn raised the minimum price floor for alcohol although their views on the matter differed. Senator O'Keeffe also highlighted the fact that the "Young Senator" competition will take place in this House on 23 April. Senator O'Keeffe launched the initiative for which I commend her. The Ministers for Education and Skills and Children and Youth Affairs will be in the House on that day for the 43 young people who will make their presence known in the House.

Senator O'Neill spoke about the figure of 86% with regard to the registration of septic tanks. That is a very high percentage. The protection of groundwater is very important and the 86% of people with septic tanks who have registered also feel it is very important. I do not wish to comment on Fianna Fáil-Sinn Féin pacts in by-elections.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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There is none.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I am glad to hear there is none. We do not know whether it comes from one side or the other.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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We did not accept the approach.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Quinn and others spoke about free travel and the fact that 1.1 million people avail of the free travel scheme. Everybody would agree that we should identify abuses in the system. Obviously, there are abuses in the system. That is necessary to protect the people who need it and qualify for it. Proper identity cards would certainly help in that regard.

Senator Hayden and others spoke about mortgage arrears. We have had many debates in the House. The Government has clearly defined actions and targets that will solve this problem. We will arrange a future debate about rent supplement with the Minister for Social Protection.

Senator Cullinane spoke about payments to bankers, which I have addressed. Senator Michael D'Arcy spoke about replies to Adjournment motions. The matter was raised at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and we can relay what was decided to Senator D'Arcy. The issue of Guthrie cards has been raised in this House by Senators Bacik and Colm Burke and several other Senators over the past number of weeks. I was asked yesterday to ensure that the meeting that had been requested with the Minister be facilitated. I learned afterwards that no request for a meeting had been made but I understand that a request has been made since yesterday so, hopefully, the Minister will accede to it and have a meeting with the people involved.

Senator Leyden spoke about Cyprus. Again, I addressed this matter yesterday. The Cypriot stability levy on deposits is a once-off measure, is unique to Cyprus and has no impact on deposit holders in any other EU member state. We need to be very clear that the disproportionate size of the banking sector, which is eight times the size of the Cypriot economy, and the nature of its liabilities make this a unique situation with no parallels elsewhere in the eurozone. The Eurogroup has made clear to the Cypriot authorities its view that small depositors should be treated differently to large depositors. To reinforce this point, the Eurogroup reaffirmed the importance of fully guaranteeing deposits below ¤100,000. The structure of the levy on deposits was proposed by the Cypriot authorities and is their responsibility. There has been no suggestion by the Eurogroup, ECB, Commission or IMF that this tax will apply in any other member state. That clarifies that matter.

Senator Kelly and several other Senators spoke about the pending retirement of Jimmy Walsh. I hope we will have an opportunity to pay tribute to him for the excellent work he has done in reporting the activities of the House for many years. I compliment him on his professionalism in that regard. I hope we will have an opportunity next week to do that.

Senator O'Sullivan spoke about Charleville railway station and the difficulties that station presents for elderly people, an issue he raised previously. I will certainly bring that matter to the attention of the Minister. Senator Paul Coghlan spoke about banks allowing families in arrears to stay in their homes. Ensuring that people will stay in their homes and that banks will address the problem of mortgage arrears is the aim of the Government. This is what is happening now and will happen before the end of this year. Hopefully, this matter will be resolved. He also called for the Credit Review Office to get involved before receivers are put in place. I urge the Senator to bring the matter to the attention of the Minister. Perhaps it could be raised when we discuss the Finance Bill for the next six or seven hours.

Senator Heffernan complimented all involved in Irish racing and the 14 winners at Cheltenham last week. I pay tribute to the outgoing chairman of Horse Racing Ireland, Denis Brosnan, who did such a wonderful job during his term and wish the new chairman, Joe Keeling, every success in that regard. The Senator also spoke about John Thomas McNamara, the Irish jockey who was very badly injured at Cheltenham and who celebrated his 600th winner in point-to-point racing at Kilfeacle only a short number of weeks ago. It would be everyone's hope that he will have a speedy recovery and we should all remember him in our prayers.

Senator Mullins spoke about social welfare fraud. As another Senator noted, I presume the case to which he referred today has been reported to the authorities to ensure this type of fraud does not continue because it is important that those who deserve social welfare get it and that fraud does not occur in the system as a result of fraudsters outside or inside the country. I think we would all agree that the vast majority of people receiving social welfare are decent, law-abiding citizens.

Senator Norris was acting as a political forecaster with regard to where political parties will be in a few years time. We will have to wait and see. Senator Healy Eames spoke about debt resolution and the need for more action on mortgages on the ground. We outlined those measures and, hopefully, we will see more action on the ground. Senator Ó Clochartaigh spoke about the structure and management of the HSE and the lack of joined-up thinking, particularly in Galway.

I am sure the Minister would welcome information which exists in this regard but I do not believe it would be necessary for the Seanad to engage in a debate on the matter in order for said information to be furnished to him. I hope the Senator will forward the information in question to the Minister as a matter of urgency.

Senators Brennan and Keane referred to the promotion of the Irish language. Efforts in that regard are to be applauded, regardless of the source from which they come.

Senator Mooney referred to the proposals for CAP reform. I will endeavour to have the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine come before the House to discuss that matter. He has agreed to appear before us in order to discuss the situation relating to horsemeat and food labelling shortly after Easter. We might ask him to address the subject of CAP reform at the same time. The time allocated for the debate on horsemeat and food labelling is 90 minutes but we will probably need to extend this in order that we might address the additional issues that will arise. I will try to encourage the Minister to come before the House for as long a debate as possible. The agreement reached by the Minister and his colleagues in Europe in recent days is a major stepping stone in the negotiations on the reform of the CAP. As everyone is aware, those negotiations have been ongoing for a number of years. The successful completion of the Council's deliberations means that in the context of its goal of reaching interinstitutional political agreement by the end of June, the Irish Presidency remains very much on target. Moreover, the strength of the qualified majority given by the Council places the Presidency in a strong position in the negotiations with the European Parliament and the European Commission. The outcome was good for the Irish Presidency but, more importantly, it was good for Ireland. The Council endorsed the principle of flexibility in the way in which direct payments are to be distributed within member states. This is known here as internal convergence and it had been the outstanding issue in the negotiations from an Irish perspective. The inclusion of the model proposed by Ireland in the range of options for member states holds out the prospect of significantly lower transfers of payments between farmers than would be the case if the Commission?s flat-rate proposal had been agreed. We will try to get the Minister to come before the House to outline the position on the reform of the CAP in early course.

Senator Keane raised the issue of the Oncotype DX test. The Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, announced that this test, which is used to discover whether cancer patients might benefit from chemotherapy, has been extremely successful. Ireland is the first country in Europe to make this test available through the public health system. Israel, Canada and the USA already fund the test. Within the past month, the National Institute for Clinical Excellence in the UK has also endorsed its use in that jurisdiction. Of the 409 women tested by the public health service between October 2011 and December 2012, 309 were deemed not to require chemotherapy and were able to avoid the significant toxicity to which several months of such therapy would give rise. The indications to date are that the test has been a highly cost-effective intervention and has allowed the health care system to avoid the cost of drugs and their administration. The expenditure on the test technology to date is over ¤1 million. I am sure everyone will agree that this is money well spent.

Senator Moloney referred to invalidity pension and a matter relating to P45s which has been rectified. On that matter, there continue to be long delays in the appeals system relating to invalidity pension. It is not acceptable that sick people submitted their appeals up to a year ago and that these have not yet been attended to. This matter will have to be addressed by the Government because it is just not acceptable for people to be obliged to wait so long to obtain their invalidity pensions. I am aware of one specific case involving a man who has cancer and who is obliged to wear a colostomy bag. He was refused invalidity pension and submitted an appeal over 12 months ago. Each month he receives the same reply to his requests for information, namely, that his file will be sought and the matter will be dealt with. The position in this regard is just not satisfactory and the matter will have to be addressed.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I accept that the appeals system is independent. However, such systems must address the problems which exist. Those who need this payment should be in a position to obtain it. There is no question about that.

Senator Moloney also requested that we engage in a debate on the mobility allowance - without a Minister being present - and that the House make a submission to the relevant working group. In that context, I wish to propose an amendment to the Order of Business to the effect that we should deal with this matter at 6 p.m. following the debate on the Finance Bill. Anyone who wishes to contribute to the debate on the matter in question or make a submission in respect of it may do so at 6 p.m. I also propose that the debate conclude at 7 p.m.

Senator Mullen referred to unpaid development levies to local authorities. There was certainly a lack of enforcement in the context of the collection of such levies. As such, there was an element of light touch regulation on the part of local authorities. The levies should have been collected when they were due but this did not happen. The Senator raised a particular question with regard to Wicklow County Council and I believe I provided him with a response in that regard. I will endeavour to encourage the Minister to come before the House in order that we might address the problem to which Senator Mullen refers. Local authorities should have been more proactive in collecting the relevant levies before developments took place. However, like others within the system, they rolled along thinking that the property boom was going to continue forever. Each and every member of society knows the cost of such thinking.

Senator Jim D'Arcy referred to the Criminal Assets Bureau and the raids it carried out on 20 premises where suspected fuel laundering was taking place. I join others in congratulating all involved in those raids and I compliment them on their success. I also compliment the Senators who have continually raised this matter in the House. I understand prosecutions may be pending but I will certainly invite the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, to come before the House to provide an update if at all possible.

Senator Wilson inquired about the payment of the household charge through post offices and asked if an additional fee would apply in this regard. I am not aware of such a fee but I will try to discover what is the actual position.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to clarify the Leader's proposal-----

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I am proposing an amendment to the Order of Business that between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. the House will deal with the matter to which Senator Moloney, namely, the mobility allowance, and that anyone who wishes to contribute to the debate and assist in the preparation of a submission to be given to the working group may do so.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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If our deliberations on the Finance Bill conclude before 6 p.m., will a sos be taken or will we proceed directly to the matter in question?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Perhaps we will amend the amendment and state that the debate will commence when our deliberations on the Finance Bill have been completed.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Will a Minister be present?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Anyone who wishes to contribute to the debate and to the framing of a submission is more than welcome to do so. There will not be a Minister present.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Will the Leader clarify the amount of time that will be allocated to each speaker in the debate?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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There will be five minutes per Senator.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That when the House completes its deliberations on the Finance Bill it will debate the issue of the mobility allowance and prepare a submission for the relevant working group". Is the amendment agreed? Agreed.