Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I, too, am deeply concerned by the events, as reported, in University Hospital Galway. It would appear, if the media reports are correct, that the system terminated the life of this unfortunate lady. Such a situation is intolerable in the extreme. I look forward to hearing the full facts of the case. We need to learn from mistakes of this kind. There is no point in engaging in the blame game, we must ensure it does not happen again.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for calling me early today as yesterday I had hoped to raise the question of bankers' salaries and pensions. As we come to the Chamber, we pass the portraits of the great leaders of the past, and call to mind people like Michael Davitt, Kevin O'Higgins, who was assassinated in the service of this State. We are aware of the huge bounty pensions that are being paid and are faced with the prospect that nothing can be done about them. I am sure those great leaders would turn in their graves if they were to know that in a time of crisis we could do nothing about these payments. I suggest that where there is a will there is a way. I have no doubt that the Minister for Finance is examining all options in terms of dealing with this situation. I encourage him in that endeavour because it is extremely important. The people who rely on Members for leadership and to do the right thing are beginning to question whether we are doing the right thing.

Members on all sides of the Oireachtas are doing good work both at home and internationally. Unfortunately until we deal with the elephant in the room, that people who presided over the financial downfall of the country are in receipt of pensions of hundreds of thousands euro, and deal convincingly and comprehensively with the situation, I do not think the public will have much faith in us. I respectfully suggest to the Leader that he convey our support to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan. If we are taken to court over doing the right things, I would prefer to go to court and fail than not try to address the problem.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I invite the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, to come to the House to explain his decision to sign a repatriation order for David Brozovsky to serve his remaining sentence in the Czech Republic for the brutal murder of Ms Sharon Coughlan on 15 December 2007. I received a telephone call this morning from the Coughlan family informing me that Mr. Brozovsky was collected this morning from the midland prison and is flying home to his family in the Czech Republic while Ms Coughlan's family must visit her grave.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator knows he should not mention people's names in the House.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is being sent back to the Czech Republic where he has a family.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator raised that issue before. The Minister dealt with the matter.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister never came to this House

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator should address a question to the Leader.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am asking the Leader to request the Minister for Justice and Equality to come to the House to explain the situation. Of course Mr. Brozovsky is going to prison in the Czech Republic, but his family will have access to him and have the right to visit him in prison. The family of the deceased, Ms Sharon Coughlan will have a grave to visit this Christmas.

The repatriation of Mr. Brozovsky was against the wishes of the Coughlan family. He was only convicted in 2007 and served five years in prison in this country. He should serve his full sentence in Ireland, which is what the Coughlan family wishes. I am conveying the wish of the family to this House. The Minister should have the courtesy to explain his decision to the House. He refused to give a report to the House.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This matter was dealt with.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not true. It was not dealt with.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Senator Harte.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister never came to the House to explain the facts.

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the views expressed by Senators Conway and Whelan on the huge pensions and salaries that apply in banking circles. I spoke yesterday about the epitaph in Messines in Belgium, which reads: "For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today". The generation that is yet to be born will say to us that for your today, you took our tomorrow. We are responsible to the next generation who will look back and see the excesses of the Celtic tiger and the excesses that have continued since the change in government. I have no problem in saying the issues we are dealing with today are a legacy from the previous Administration and the culture of that time. Blame is apportioned in a few places

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to explain to Members of this House and the public how the remuneration packages of senior bankers can be justified. I do not know how many bankers are earning more than ¤500,000, which is nearly 20 times the average industrial wage. There must be a mechanism to review it. We have a duty to the generation that has not yet been born. I concur with my colleagues on both sides of the House who are calling for this matter to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Colleagues have referred to the tragic story that emerged overnight about what happened in Galway University Hospital. Out of respect for Standing Orders, I will not mention the names of the persons involved. We agree that what happened to this unfortunate woman is tragic. Our first thoughts must be with her and her loved ones, in particular her bereaved husband. We must be fair to the medical professionals involved and await the reviews and investigations into the case. It would be wrong to campaign in the absence of the facts and the necessary medical knowledge. We can say it would be unjust to seek to use this case as a wedge to promote the legalisation of abortion.

On trying to consult people with the necessary specialty, this case appears not to be about the state of Irish law but may be about the diagnosis and treatment of infection in the first instance. There may even be medical negligence issues. We must proceed with great caution. There have been helpful articles in The Irish Times that I noted overnight.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, it is wild speculation to say there is a medical negligence issue. This is a very complex issue. I respect Senator Mullen's opinions on abortion although I might not agree with all of them. To throw into the mix that this may have been a case of medical negligence, without a scrap of evidence is not fair.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are on the Order of Business; this issue should not be discussed in detail. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes. I greatly respect my colleague, Senator Crown. I think what I was saying was quite clear. We need to be very careful because of the potential panoply of different issues. I am in no sense asserting there was medical negligence. I am inviting people to be very careful about drawing any conclusion. I address that to all Members, with the greatest of respect. I think that is what I did say. What is clear from the Medical Council guidelines is that women are entitled to all necessary medical treatment. I think that includes induced labour if that is what is indicated.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes. It is a matter for sensitivity and honesty. The test is a woman's best interest in health care, to which she is entitled to under Irish law and medical guidelines.

The existence of the foetal heartbeat is a secondary issue in that instance.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is way over his time.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We need to proceed with caution. I note what my distinguished colleague, Senator Crown, has said but I think I am right to point to the fact that there are various different possibilities here and I am right to warn people against jumping to any particular conclusion. The Senator is obviously right to look out for his colleagues and I would seek to do so too and I do so because I am not prejudging what happened in this case.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I am not here to defend any professional group; I am speaking in the interests of justice.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will not follow any of my distinguished colleagues in terms of speaking on that subject. I am glad they are treating it sensitively. It is important that we await the outcome of the investigation. Obviously, it is a tragic case.

I welcome very much what Senator Darragh O'Brien mentioned in regard to the Bank of Ireland being able to raise ¤1 billion on the bond markets unaided. It is small step - a stumble in the right direction on the road to the normalisation of our banks. However, I am concerned, as are many other Members who have expressed their concern, about the bankers who are still in situ who were in place in retail banking in Ireland - I am talking about pillar banks - when they brought down our banks. It was a condition of the State guarantee of the banks that pay caps be observed and we know in specific instances that they are not. They are seriously out of kilter in some instances and this is an issue that must be addressed, apart form the pension pots, which are outlandish, and they should be brought to heel in that regard. The important point we want to enforce and recommend to the Minister is that while the banks are still dependent on State assistance, as both pillar banks are, they must play by the rules and they should be made play by them. I do not have a remedy for how that should be done, but it is not outside the bounds of the capabilities of the people who are dealing with this matter to ensure that will be the case as long as those banks are depending on the State guarantee When they are free of it, they can break away, as can the other banks. I will not say that they can do what they like, as nobody should be allowed to do what they like in a democracy.

Kathryn Reilly (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I extend my deepest sympathy to the family of the woman in Galway. Their grieving has been made much harder by the fact that the case has been made so public and it is a very contentious issue in our State. The people spoke in a referendum and firmly placed responsibility upon their Oireachtas representatives to deal with the issue by means of legislation. While many people hold their own personal views, values and beliefs, we were elected as legislators and, ultimately, responsibility comes with that role. As elected representatives and legislators, it is important we act to deal with the difficult issues caused for women and medical practitioners in this State by the current absence of legislation. We are now no longer dealing with what ifs or hypothetical situations. The reality of the absence of legislation for the X case has finally hit home. We have seen that in Galway and it is not acceptable. There is an expert group and it was reported in the Dáil today that the Minister, Deputy Reilly, has received that expert group's report last night. I would like to know when it will be made public and when will we finally have sight of legislation to deal with this issue.

Senator Norris raised a number of pertinent and important questions that need to be answered. This issue will be on the agenda for a long time into the future and as legislators we need to respond and deal with it as a matter of urgency and priority because the reality has hit home. We are not dealing with a hypothetical situation. A tragedy has occurred and we now have to deal with this issue to prevent this happening to other women in the future. As Senator Heffernan said, such women could be our sisters, parents or daughters and the current position cannot continue to prevail any longer.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support in their entirety the comments of my colleague, Senator Heffernan, on the tragedy of the death of the lady in Galway in the last few days. "I am right" is a statement that was made and it was made in the context of there being no information. It is amazing and remarkable that such a statement could be made by Senator Mullen. Perhaps "I am righteous" would be a better statement in this context. I will leave it at that for the moment.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I do not think I said "I am right."

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Landy should not comment on other Senators.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was a fair comment. It was said in the Chamber.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, it is unfair when we are all trying to deal with the issue sensitively for Senator Landy to turn this into a personal attack.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does Senator Landy have a question for the Leader?

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have and I am coming to it. My question for the Leader relates to the launch one month ago today by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government of Putting People First, an action programme on local government reform. One month later we still do not have details of the boundary commission, when it will be established or its terms of reference. Councillors throughout the country are contacting me, and I am sure other representatives, on a daily basis regarding this matter. It is not good enough. We were told on the day of the launch of the action programme that the establishment of the boundary commission was imminent, yet a month later we have not heard a word about it. We are 20 months away from the next local elections and it is only right and proper that those who are standing for re-election and those who intend to stand for election would know at least where the boundaries are.

In regard to local government reform, I ask the Leader to request the Minister to come into the House for a full debate on the proposals in the document, Putting People First-----

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Putting Labour first.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and that he also announce the boundary commission and its terms of reference as soon as possible.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Notwithstanding the Minister for Health's regular trips to the House, I request that he be asked to come here once more to deal with the health service budget. He was here last evening but we did not have time to discuss the budget as each of us only had a short time allocated to deal specifically with the new children's hospital. We heard confirmation in recent days of a deficit of ¤400 million in the HSE, that there will be no supplementary budget in this regard and that the deficit will be carried over into next year. That will clearly impact on front-line services. We can see this already. I spoke last week - Senator Darragh O'Brien spoke yesterday - on the issue of cuts to the home help service where some ¤8 million is expected to be saved. The impact that is having is far greater than the amount of savings that can be made.

In terms of this morning's news items, the ESRI has produced a report which shows the rebalancing required in terms of pension tax reliefs could raise up to ¤400 million alone. Clearly, we are not focusing on the areas on which we need to focus. We are not protecting the most vulnerable. We were not focusing on those can take a little bit more pain. On the pensions side, there are people on salaries ten times more than the average wage with pension contributions of up to 36 times more than those. While we do not want to remove all incentives it is important that people make arrangements for their future and retirement in order that they are not a burden on the State. Clearly, all people are equal but some are a lot more equal than others in the context of the incentives we provide in terms of tax relief to certain people at a time when basic needs in communities are raped and pillaged. I say this in the context of an ¤8 million saving proposed in cuts to the home help service.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I also wish to raise the unfortunate situation that has transpired n Galway. I would like to say one thing in regard to the medical profession. This is not a matter of the failure of the medical profession, it is a matter of the failure of the Legislature. It is unfair to blame the members of the medical profession for the position in which they have been put by the failure of successive Governments to legislate for something that has been on the books of this country for a long period of time.

The newspaper reportage has raised some valid questions about what happened in this case. The first point is that we would all feel a sympathy towards the lady and her family for what has happened. However, it is important to note that Ireland is one of the safest countries in the world in which to give birth. The fact remain however that for every 50,000 Irish women who give birth every year a further 14,000 Irish women miscarry. This is a very serious matter for a very significant proportion of the Irish population. Pregnancy is a time of great joy but it is also a time of great fear. This case has highlighted the vulnerability of Irish women who experience difficulties in the course of their pregnancy.

For the lady in question, it would appear that miscarriage was inevitable. She was fully dilated. I understand she was a dentist so when she asked for a medical termination, I assume she had some notion of what she was requesting. The fact that the family was told this was a Catholic country is something about which we should all be concerned.

Some valid questions have been raised and as Senator Norris noted in particular, there are rights that all pregnant women should have. One of these is the right to a second opinion, particularly for women depending on the public health system in this country who cannot vote with their wallets.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is there a question for the Leader?

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Leader to assure the House that he will ask the relevant Minister to make the report of the expert group on the X case known to this House at the earliest possible opportunity. I ask him to put to the Minister for Health that legislation on the matter is needed, not just to give the women of this country clarity but to protect the medical profession.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a point of order. It is entirely in the Cathaoirleach's gift as to what contributions are made here but I confess that I am extremely uneasy about the contributions so far relating to a family which is deeply in anguish and distress and a case which has not been given any great clarity other than through newspaper reports. I ask colleagues to use some sensitivity and use good judgment.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I completely agree with the Senator.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I feel very uneasy about this. It also gives an opportunity perhaps to go beyond the boundaries of this specific case.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator was not feeling uneasy earlier.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The scope of the tragedy of what happened in Galway is overwhelming and we must reflect on the sad death of a young dentist and near professional colleague of ours. We should learn the lessons of the incident.

I have been quoted and misquoted on the issue, and the misquotes have been flying in recent days. Abortion is very rarely necessary to save a woman's life. It is an extremely rare event, although that does not mean it is not important to have a legislative framework for it. Anybody's life is important but there is another context to this, as maternal deaths in such circumstances are extraordinarily rare events. There are years in Ireland when there are no maternal deaths, with most years seeing only one or maybe two. Most of our large maternity hospitals regard it as a tragedy if there is one such death in the course of a year. It is an extremely rare event. To say that abortion is rarely necessary to save a mother's life does not undermine the necessity for having legislation in place for abortion to save the mother's life at a time when saving that life can only occur in the context of an abortion.

As has been pointed out most recently by my friend and colleague, Senator Mooney, the circumstances of the case are not well known and we are all depending on second-hand accounts from newspapers. I wish no disrespect to any of the accounts given or the unbelievable tragedy suffered by this family when I say we should reserve judgment until there is a formal account of exactly what happened here. There is a suggestion there may have been a failure on the part of the doctors, and that may be the case, but we do not know if that was the cause or if there was a failure of the legislative framework in which the doctors work. The legislative framework is surely inadequate and there has been a vacuum. An inquest will determine the cause of death and we can only hope that will occur very quickly. We must learn lessons from this case as there may well be other cases where similar decisions will be made by doctors, midwives and nurses in the middle of the night.

What is known-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is there a question for the Leader?

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Leader to ask the Minister to schedule a debate on his plans at the earliest opportunity and pending the publication of the expert group's opinion. It is known that the shameful delay in providing the legislative framework has left a vacuum. In recent weeks a national newspaper pointed out that apparently dangerous advice was allegedly being given by clinics which are operating within the legislative vacuum, as we do not have proper advice available to patients in the health service. When that happens, ad hoc groups will spring up to give advice which is not at the same level as that which would be given in a mainstream and peer-reviewed hospital.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is way over his time.

John Crown (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask that the Minister give this issue priority and know he will do so. We need clarity and legislation on the issue. People will have different opinions about abortion but nobody can honestly believe there is any social good or benefit to the body politic or republic in delaying legislation to permit abortion when a woman's life is in danger.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join colleagues in offering our deepest sympathy to the husband and bereaved family of the woman referred to in the newspapers this morning. I support Senator Crown in restraining from comment until such time as the full facts of the case are known. At that stage we should debate the various aspects outlined by many Members this morning.

Another medical story is contained in this morning's newspaper, written by the health correspondent of The Irish Times. It indicates that 30% of hospital doctors do not wash their hands, according to an audit carried out by the HSE. It is particularly disturbing as hand washing protects patients from potentially lethal super-bugs such as MRSA. Some hospitals fare worse than others, with 70% of doctors in Wexford General Hospital not washing their hands, 71.4% of doctors not doing so in St. Luke's Hospital in Kilkenny, and 73.3% of doctors not doing so in Roscommon. In this day and age it should be an absolute given that any medical personnel dealing with patients, and particularly large volumes of patients, wash their hands and ensure there is no opportunity to spread infection.

I ask the Leader to facilitate a discussion with the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, on prevention of infection in hospitals. My local hospital in Ballinasloe is closed to visitors because of an outbreak of the winter vomiting bug, illustrating the significant opportunity within the hospital environment for spreading infection. We must ensure everything possible is done within every hospital and health centre run by the HSE to ensure we prevent the spread of infection.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the apology given by the Minister for Education and Skills in the Lower House yesterday to the tens of thousands of young people affected by the Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, debacle. Will the Leader ask the Minister if it will hand back the Taoiseach's innovation award it received prior to the SUSI system going live on 11 June? It seems it is such a marvellous success that prior to it going live, the Minister for Education and Skills accepted, on behalf of the Department, an innovation award. Will that be handed back for a time until the system works properly and young people receive their grants?

Will the Leader ask who gave the instruction that VECs were not to be involved in giving advice or help student grant applicants who had difficulty with applications? These people were to be referred to the citizen information service. That is an appalling scandal if the information is correct. VECs have been dealing with these applications for many years since the introduction of the grant, building up a wealth of experience and knowledge, but their personnel were told they could not deal with the young people in difficulty, who should be referred to the citizen information centres. The people in those centres were brought to Dublin for a training day at the taxpayers' expense on how to tell students to deal with difficulties. That experience and knowledge was available in towns throughout the country. Will the Leader get that clarification from the Department of Education and Skills?

Who gave the instruction that the VEC personnel were not to help these young people in difficulty?

I agree with Senator Landy that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government should be called to the House to discuss the Putting People First document published a few weeks ago.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am nervous and reluctant, because I agree with sentiments expressed, to speak about the complex and delicate nature of the case that has arisen in Galway and its implications. I commend Senator Heffernan for the sensible and sensitive tone he set calling for a more compassionate and reasoned discourse on these issues. I also commend Senator Reilly. This was a terrible tragedy and it will be compounded if people try to exploit it to pursue their own selfish political agendas. I sometimes despair coming to the House for the Order of Business because it seems some Members have nothing else on their mind only abortion and nothing would suit them better - they are on both sides of the House - to push this issue towards another divisive referendum. That would be appalling.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are not discussing this issue today. Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My heart goes out the poor family in Galway and the obstetricians, gynaecologists and midwives who have to make life or death decisions in a matter of seconds in stressful circumstances. It is important we take seriously our responsibilities as legislators. It is clear the medical profession requires legal clarity on this complex issue, for which one would have to have the wisdom of Solomon to divine. It is important the Minster for Health discloses at the earliest opportunity the recommendations of the expert group in order that, as legislators, we can take our responsibilities to ensure no mother dies in child birth in these circumstances ever again.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister for Health was in the House yesterday but I would like him to come back shortly. Yesterday's short debate was good and I was delighted that my colleague, Senator Crown, had the opportunity to influence the Minister regarding the new children's hospital. He encouraged us all to support the Minister wholeheartedly to ensure the hospital is built as a matter of urgency.

I refer to a topic which came to light only recently. A total of 781 diabetic related lower limb amputations took place over the past two years in the State, which was a 20% increase on the previous two years. One person goes blind every week due to diabetes. The scandal is that we funded this two years ago but the money has not been used. For example,16 foot care posts relating to diabetes were vacant but nine remain unfilled and the paediatric and diabetes posts in Cork, Limerick and Galway have not even been advertised. The money was allocated two years ago, yet the first step has not been taken. I was startled by the figures. I did not realise the number of amputations or the incidence of blindness related to diabetes but I am scandalised by the fact that money was allocated two years ago and has not been used. I believe the Minister needs to have this drawn to his attention and I hope on a future visit by him to the House we will have the opportunity to debate it.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

With regard to rare diseases, I attended a briefing earlier by the medical research charities on the importance of research. We had a Private Members' debate on rare diseases and a national plan is to be put in place by the end of 2013. This is to be replicated throughout the European Union. It would be great if Ireland led by being the first to publish its national plan and to have an organised programme to deal with this issue.

This leads me to the upcoming EU Presidency, about which I also attended a briefing. There will be 1,600 meetings and 175 other events during the six months Ireland holds the Presidency. Members of both Houses, all other public representatives and, for example, schools should be briefed early about everything that is happening, It will be 14 years before Ireland holds the Presidency again and many of the students who visited the House earlier will have finished school by then. It will be important to use the opportunity to get the message out about the influence we have in Europe and the important part we play. Will the Leader bring this to the attention of the various Departments and, in particular, the Departments of Education and Skills and Foreign Affairs and Trade? We should use the Presidency to get the message out about our proactive role at European level.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ba mhaith liom mo ghlór féin a chur leis na glórtha eile anseo inniu ag déanamh chomhbhróin le clann na mná óige a fuair bás i nGaillimh.

As a father whose children were all born in University Hospital Galway, I was taken aback by the news last night of this terrible tragedy and would like to convey my condolences to the families in question. I have been in contact with the management of the hospital who have said they cannot say anything at the moment for legal reasons, which I appreciate, but I hope we have a full and frank debate on the issues when all the information is available to us. I join in calls for the recommendations of the expert group to be made available. The Minister has the report and he must report to the European court on the issue by 30 November as part of its proceedings. It would be pertinent for us to have a debate before that happens and the report should be made available to us in order that we can debate in a measured way on all the issues involved.

While there were many presentations this morning on pre-budget issues, I attended an excellent briefing on equality budgeting in Ireland. I have called on a number of occasions for the Government to equality proof and poverty proof budgets. I appreciate we had a good debate with the Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform yesterday, but it is difficult to discuss all the issues in a three minute contribution. Equality budgeting is worthy of a debate. We were informed earlier about models of equality budgeting in the North, Scotland and other European states, which ensure the views of groups in society with an equality agenda are taken on board when a budget is being framed. I call for a debate on equality budgeting.

John Gilroy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am flattered and a little humbled by Senator Darragh O'Brien's kind words about me.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is welcome.

John Gilroy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It causes me some distress to have to be critical of him, which is uncharacteristic of me. This is the first time since the Senator's Government destroyed the economy that an Irish bank has made a successful return to the money markets outside the guarantee, yet he can find something negative to say about this.

Darragh O'Brien (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not true. They secured private investment last year and the year before.

John Gilroy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

While it is a minor move, it is encouraging. I agree with him that it is unacceptable that Bank of Ireland continues to treat its customers in the manner it does, but it is probably best that politicians do not take an active part in the day-to-day running of a bank, as Senator O'Brien seemed to suggest.

Yesterday, on the Order of Business and during statements on the economy, I called for a debate on the banking strategy we are pursuing. I reiterate my call for such a debate before the budget. The debate should be wide-ranging and should include issues relating to the Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes, which are causing a great deal of comment in the country. We could improve, as a Government, our communication around this issue. There seems to be an information vacuum regarding the promissory notes, which offer the most encouraging possibility of an early deal on bank debt. Will the Leader facilitate an early debate with the Minister for Finance to discuss the banking strategy, including legacy debt and the Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes?

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with Senator Wilson in welcoming the comments of the Minister for Education and Skills. Subsequent to hearing his comments, I attended a meeting of the comhairle Dáil attended by some 100 people.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Was that for the whole south east?

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, it was just for one constituency. The main topic that came up among party members was people not being able to access grants for third level education. In some instances, people identified students who have had to leave college as a consequence. In one case, a mother who has been deserted by a husband is in receipt of ¤214 per week and is struggling to meet the cost of sending a child to college and had to take the child out of college as a result of what happened. As a result of the appalling outcome of SUSI, which the Minister championed, many people called Susie are applying by deed poll to have their names changed because they are so embarrassed by it.

Senator Heffernan set the proper tone in his contribution. I agreed with some aspects of what he said but not others. In this instance, we need to await the outcome of the inquest. There was an interesting programme on RTE Radio One this morning, where a medical expert raised certain questions that resonated with me. He said that certain questions need to be answered, including whether protocols were in place in the hospital, whether they were followed, and whether they were adequate. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister to come to the Chamber? I have concerns that a number of people may try to exploit the unfortunate tragic circumstances in Galway. Members have mentioned the X case. The man who championed abortion legislation in Britain based on mental health, Mr. David Steele, said he never envisaged a situation where up to 190,000 babies are aborted in Britain annually, many as a social convenience. We need to be very careful in the manner in which we approach this topic.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Reading the report of the young woman who lost her life in Galway hospital, I am deeply disturbed. It is a huge trauma to be visited upon a family and it is a tragedy. We should not make judgments or assessments until we have the full facts to hand. We do not know where that failure arose and we need to establish where failure was. The people of Ireland voted that the life of the mother was of equal value to the life of the child. Let us have the report discussed in the Chamber.

The Minister for Health received the report of the expert group last night. The Government must give an indication of its intentions to the Council of Europe by 30 November. Much will happen in this area in the next month. We need to think that when we are making decisions in the House, we are making decisions about the life of the mother and the life of the child. Let us proceed calmly and not try to score points on either side.

Following the comments of Senator Conway, I agree the Government should be prepared to take the bankers to court. The banks were bailed out by the taxpayer but not with the intention of shoring up the pensions of bankers who bankrupted the country. If we fail there, we should have the courage to take a constitutional amendment on the issue. On that notion, there will be more than a 32% turnout because that is how strongly the Irish people feel about it.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Leader to indicate whether the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport will come to the House soon, particularly in light of newspaper reports indicating CIE is in a severe financial crisis. I raised the issue to establish the policy of the Department. The Minister announced he would provide ¤36 million, which he subsequently withdrew. The annual report of CIE is due in the coming days and will not make for positive reading. Attempts are being made to squeeze more from unions. A cursory reading suggests the unions in the three companies, Bus Éireann, Iarnród Éireann and CIE, have been more than compliant in terms of making severe adjustments. There has been a reduction in the workforce and it looks like there will be further redundancies. My main concern is that it has been flagged that there may be the closure of further services. These services are not generating passenger numbers as high as earlier expectations. The sad reality is if the company goes down that road, it will be the death knell of rural Ireland. We have already had a controversy over the withdrawal of bus stops from Bus Éireann expressway routes across the north west and west. In that context, I want to establish the Department's policy on transport in light of the crisis emerging in CIE.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does Senator Ó Domhnaill have a brief question? We are over time.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge what has been said and agree with Senators Wilson and Walsh regarding the welcome statement from the Minister for Education and Skills last night. It must be followed by the Minister contacting all colleges and universities in the State and asking them not to put any pressure on any student, with regard to services in colleges or exams, until this fiasco is resolved. The second thing that must happen is additional staff being provided to SUSI. Some ten additional members of staff have been provided but it is not nearly sufficient. It is a step in the right direction. Everyone must learn from this. We have received e-mails saying information that could have been provided earlier, if the student had known, which shows the SUSI system is not working effectively or efficiently in comparison to the local authority or VEC system. While there were questioned over the latter, it was more effective and efficient than the current system. With only 3,000 students in receipt of grants, it is wholly unacceptable, particularly in light of how banks are dealing with students. No overdrafts or loans are available to students and many students are considering leaving college. That is a sad reflection on what has happened. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Education and Skills to the House to discuss the matter because we should all have the opportunity to make an input.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The leader of the Opposition, Senator Darragh O'Brien, raised the topic of Bank of Ireland raising ¤1 billion in funding on the bond markets. It is an important milestone on the path to full independence for the banks. It is the first time since October 2010 that Bank of Ireland has been able to access the international debt markets in a benchmark public issue. The issuance is further evidence of the strengthening and normalisation of thje banking system. It is a clear show of confidence by international investors in the restructuring of the sector and its viability in the future. The commitment of ¤1 billion from investors in unguaranteed Irish bank paper is important in decoupling the sovereign from the banks. It is a step towards a full return to the wholesale markets independent of State support. The strong investor appetite is demonstrated by the fact that the issuance was close to two and a half times oversubscribed. That is an expression of confidence in the economy. The deal is an important part of the normalisation of the banking sector. Access to international markets at sustainable rates is vital to the viability of the banking sector. I take on board what Senator Darragh O'Brien mentioned in respect of mortgage interest rates.

The acting leader of the Labour Party, Senator James Heffernan, raised the very sad tragedy we learned of in Galway. Our thoughts and sympathy go to the husband and family of the young woman who died in the Galway hospital.

The vast majority of Members have commented on this tragic event and asked about the report of the expert group. I understand the report of the expert group on the judgment by the European Court of Human Rights in ABC v. Ireland has been completed and was delivered to the Department of Health last night. The Minister for Health has not yet seen the report as he is in Cork. He has a duty and responsibility to read the report, reflect on it and bring it to the Government. The expert group was asked to examine the judgment and present a series of options on how to implement it, taking into account the constitutional, legal, medical and ethical considerations involved in the formulation of public policy in this area. The Government has until 30 November to send a response to the Council of Europe on the progress made in this area. That is the position as it stands.

In regard to the death of the young woman in Galway, I do not intend to make any further statement. As I understand two investigations are taking place, it would be wise to wait for their findings. I am sure the House will have a debate on the findings of the expert group in early course.

A number of Senators raised various issues, including Senator Conway who referred to bankers' pensions. Certainly there is a will on the part of the Government to tackle the issue. I am confident the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, will find a way to deal with it soon.

Senator Terry Leyden raised the issue of the transfer of a prisoner to the Czech Republic. The matter was raised previously and I dealt comprehensively with it. Just to refresh the Senator's mind, I will go over it once again. The transfer was being made under the Transfer of Sentenced Persons Acts 1995 and 1997. The Acts provide for a mechanism whereby non-nationals serving sentences in Ireland may apply to serve the remainder of their sentences in their own countries where those countries are parties to the Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons. In the period 1995 to 2011, approximately 140 Irish citizens were transferred to Ireland from abroad to serve their sentences here, including 39 citizens convicted of murder in other states. A similar number of foreign prisoners were returned to their home countries to serve their sentences there. The Czech Republic is a convention state as defined in section 1 of the Act. In the particular case of the Czech authorities, they have given assurances that Mr. David Brozovsky will continue to have his sentence of life in prison enforced and will serve at least 20 years of his life sentence before being considered for conditional release. Furthermore, the serving of an exclusion order which will require him to remain outside Ireland is being considered and processed through the normal channels. I have a good deal more information which I outlined to the House and the Senator previously but I will impart it to Senator Leyden if he wishes to have it.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Coughlan family is not happy about it.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Paul Coghlan asked about people who were in situ in the banks during the disastrous time when the banks were guaranteed. Certainly there were caps on bankers' pay that should be addressed and adhered to. I concur with his sentiments in that regard.

Senator Denis Landy raised the issue of local government reform and asked when the boundary commissions would be appointed. The boundary commissions were appointed yesterday.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Very good.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They will report by the spring. Therefore, people will have at least 12 months in which to plan for local election campaigns.

Senator MacSharry called for a debate on banking matters. Members have had ample time to outline their views on these matters in recent months when we have had Ministers in on various subjects. I do not think anybody can say that we have not had sufficient time to debate budgetary matters in various areas. We have had more debates than I thought on that issue.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We need more.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Senator needs more we will have more and we will certainly have one on 5 December.

Senator Quinn has raised the issue of lower limb amputations, people going blind as a result of diabetes and the non-filling of posts where money has been allocated. That is a serious matter which I will raise with the Minister and invite him to the House to discuss. Why the posts have not been filled where money was allocated is a question I cannot answer. It is dreadful that important posts have not been filled to date.

Senator Wilson raised the issue of student grants. I provided a comprehensive reply on that issue yesterday. The matter has been raised by Senators Walsh, Ó Domhnaill and others. The current situation is not acceptable. The Department has employed extra staff to deal with the matter which I hope will be concluded in order that people get their grants before Christmas. As I mentioned yesterday, this is the first year of operation of Student Universal Support Ireland. We had 66 local authorities and VECs. In recent years we had debates on why people had not received their grants well into January and February. There are major problems where students and their families are badly hit because they have not received the grants but the Minister is addressing the issue as best he can.

Senator Colm Burke raised the issue of briefings on the Irish Presidency of the EU and the proactive role being played by Ireland in Europe. That role should be enunciated. During the six months of the Irish Presidency of the EU, I propose that our MEPs address the House, followed by questions on their areas of responsibility in Europe. That is a prominent role the House can play. Most Members have welcomed that initiative.

The issue of promissory notes and the banking strategy was raised by Senator Gilroy. While we have had a number of debates on the matter, I am sure we will have further debates on it.

Senator Mooney raised the important question of CIE. I understand a Bill dealing with Córas Iompair Éireann will be brought before the House next week when there will be ample opportunity for the Senator to raise the matters he raised today.