Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister to the House.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann- expresses deepest sympathies to the families and friends of all those who have lost their lives so tragically to suicide recently;
- recognises that tackling bullying in all its forms is a key objective of this Government;
- notes the existence of resources such as internetsafety.ie and webwise.ie, which have been produced to provide parents, teachers and students with Internet safety advice;
- acknowledges that the anti-bullying forum hosted by the Minister for Education and Skills and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs in May 2011 was the first of its kind in Ireland;
- further acknowledges the establishment of a working group which will produce an action plan on bullying for the Minister for Education and Skills in the coming weeks;
- welcomes the improvements which technology has brought to our lives, and the improved learning which takes place in our schools as a result;
- understands that parents, siblings, teachers, service providers of social media and the wider community all have a vital role to play in combating cyberbullying; and
- notes the intention of the Minister for Education and Skills to publish the action plan on bullying before Christmas.".

While researching this topic I have been struck by the number of valuable resources available on the Internet. Nevertheless, the issue of bullying is a bit like the short story by Italo Calvino, "The Argentine Ant". Everybody had their own sovereign method of eradicating the problem of the infestation and each was tried in turn with great hopes of success but none worked. The fact that this story is an allegory for the Nazi occupation of Italy is also appropriate because bullying is also about power and the abuse of such power, insidious dehumanisation and destruction of personality. It is also very difficult to deal with it.

Professor Mona O'Moore of Trinity College Dublin, one of our foremost experts on bullying, has argued that we should take the shame from bullying, which is a complex statement. In other words, we should recognise bullying as a part of human nature. Most people have either bullied or been bullied at some stage, and some have experienced both. We should take that as a first principle and deal with the problem from that perspective. In that way parents, bullied persons and the bullies will be "freed from the burden of shame". This is theory, and it is difficult to see how parents or victims could muster that level of detachment in a crisis.

It is, therefore, necessary to have in place in schools well thought-out plans and policies. There is a statutory requirement for schools to have a code of discipline and a discrete policy on bullying. In this new scenario, there is a need for schools to update fully their plans and polices in this regard.

The Minister shares this view and that is why, on taking office, he hosted an anti-bullying forum in May 2012 , which was the first of its kind in Ireland, and subsequently established the working group to produce an action plan on bullying which I hope will report shortly.

Technology had brought great change into our lives in every sphere and most of that change has been for the good. It has greatly aided teaching and learning in schools. However, the newest form of bullying is known as cyberbullying, which refers to the bullying and harassment of others by means of new electronic technologies, primarily mobile phones and the Internet. It is emerging as a significant problem that can threaten the health, well-being and attainment of victims and adversely affect the climate of the peer group and ethos of the school. There is also the problem of "the digital divide" between young people and adults. Many parents feel helpless in dealing with this issue and limited in how they can support their child. Sometimes, the greatest fear of children is that their mobile phone may be taken away from them if they tell their parents, leading to further isolation and, therefore, they say nothing.

Another problem is that parents sometimes cannot accept that their child is a bully and rather than contact between parents being part of the solution, it becomes part of the problem. We have to explore how that can be changed. It is worth noting that two thirds of bullying is still attributable to traditional means. While we should focus on cyberbullying, we cannot engage in "the politics of the last atrocity" to quote John Hume. We must be proactive rather than reactive. It is essential, therefore, that a whole school approach to bullying be firmly adopted at the policy stage, which should include whole school fora. The Minister should suggest that to schools because sometimes the consultations on school policy, given the demands on schools, may not be as strong as they should be. In this instance, it is essential because bullying can comprise pupil on pupil, pupil on teacher, teacher on pupil and teacher on teacher. A range of issues need to be considered.

Bullying is one of the most difficult problems to deal with in schools. I found it one of the most difficult problems to get my head around as a school principal for 30 years. I do not in any way want to minimise how difficult the issue is to address but that does not mean we should fail to make every effort to have a new beginning to deal with bullying in schools. Most bullying happens outside school. It is both an innate and learned behaviour. I thank the Minister for coming to the House to debate this issue. I have great admiration for what he is doing in this regard. The more preventative measures that are implemented, the less bullying there will be. It is about policy, ethos and practice.

Eamonn Coghlan (Independent)
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I second the motion, which I welcome. I also welcome the Minister to the House. I have been in the House for approximately 18 months and every day I attend, I hear stories about child abuse, the banks in trouble, the debt people are enduring, the economy, suicide, unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse. It seems day after day, session after session, our society is dealing with an endless number of social problems. It appears there is a bleak future but, at the same time, when I put on the blinkers, I can identify a great deal of good happening in our society through sports, art and entertainment. The recent deaths of the two young girls in counties Leitrim and Donegal and that of the Irish girl in Connecticut only last year have highlighted cyberbullying and the devastation it is causing for the families and communities who have to deal with it. Cyberbullying is the silent destroyer, as it destroys individuals and families.

Bullying is nothing new; it is even mentioned in the Bible. It goes back to the early days of our Lord. We have physical and psychological bullying and now we have cyberbullying. There is no single clear profile of a bully. Bullies are young, old, men, women, children and leaders in our society. It crosses all genders, age, race and creeds. Do people bully because of jealousy or insecurity? Does it give them power or make them feel better? Do they do it out of fear or are they looking for attention to address an underlying problem they might have? Do they realise the devastation they cause for other people at the click of a finger?

I know what it is like to be bullied. I was bullied growing up on the streets of Drimnagh where I was afraid of my life to go outside the hall door day after day, night after day for fear I would be attacked. The top of a petrol can came crashing through the window and split my mother's head having been thrown by young bullies trying to get at me because they were jealous. I was bullied in school. I was beaten relentlessly and I missed school for months on end because I was bullied not by a student but by a teacher. I was bullied in the business community. I am aware of the despair I suffered following those experiences over the years but the one thing I had going for me was I was able to speak to somebody about it. I spoke to my parents and I spoke to my coaches at the time.

The young people enduring cyberbullying have nowhere to go. It is the silent destroyer. Bullying is repeated verbal, physical and psychological aggression perpetrated by individuals and groups against individuals and groups. We have all grown up being slagged but there is a big difference between being slagged and being bullied. One can overcome being slagged because it will make one resilient, tough and aggressive but cyberbullying, the silent destroyer, is evil and faceless. We welcomed information technology, IT, into the 21st century, particularly in the context of commerce and communications. For example, we can talk to our sons, daughters and other family members around the world. The problem with IT nowadays is accessibility to the Internet through mobile phones, smartphones text messaging, FaceTime, Bebo and Ask.fm.

Children are now engaging in society in ways previously unimagined. We need a serious look at how to regulate the industry, including legalising it. We are looking for parental and legal responsibility and for responsibility in the industry. From recent research, I realise that 25% of children in primary school are on Facebook. Some of them are as young as eight years old, yet Facebook policy is that one must be 13 years of age to sign up. Where is the regulation?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Where are the parents?

Eamonn Coghlan (Independent)
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Precisely. Do people who engage in bullying know the damage they are causing, the lives they are destroying, the humiliation and isolation and low self-esteem they are causing? They use intimidation and aggression to feel that power but it hides other issues. We need to rethink tactics on dealing with bullying. We welcome the anti-bullying forum established by the Minister and we note that it is not just about cyberbullying but also homophobic bullying and racism. We welcome the fact that the Minister is engaging students, educators, parents and academics and is identifying policies and practices. We need practical steps to tackle bullying.

We also welcome the research centre of Professor Mona O'Moore in Trinity College Dublin and the five areas she is working on, including national strategy, teacher training, a media campaign, national advisory boards and legislation. Dr. O'Moore referred to the ABCs, namely, avoiding aggression, being tolerant and care for others. In my points for life campaign, through the medium of physical education in schools, I spoke about ABCs, meaning agility, balance and co-ordination, and cardiovascular. Through the work I am doing with the Department in this area, which is going quite well, we can incorporate the bullying tactic and how to deal with it through the medium of physical activity education in sports in school. I thank the Minister for his attention and the work he is doing to attack this issue progressively.

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. I also welcome the motion and the initiative taken by my Fine Gael colleagues in tabling it. Fianna Fáil fully supports it and has not tabled an amendment. It is important for my party to support it and not to put the matter to a vote.

I express my sympathy and that of my colleagues to the families of those who have lost loved ones to suicide in recent times, including Ciara Pugsley and Erin Gallagher. Some Members were present in the audiovisual room when Ciara's dad, Jonathan, gave a touching account of his family's experience on the issue. In the gentlest, most dignified way, he put it up to all of us to work together and co-operate on all sides of the House to ensure effective strategies are in place to tackle bullying. We owe it to the families affected by this to ensure we do everything we can to ensure that is done.

Bullying is a major problem. As Senator Eamonn Coghlan pointed out, it is not a new problem but it has new forms. Physical bullying, which makes up the majority of bullying incidents, means that even though kids may dread going to school, they know they will get out the gate and can go home. If they are being bullied in other physical environments, they can find some space where the bullies cannot get to. However, that is not the case with Facebook or text messages and the advent of cyberbullying means our young people can be persecuted 24 hours a day and cannot get away from it. Statistics show that cyberbullying is a much smaller aspect of the problem but in many respects it is more severe because it is impossible for young people to get away from it. The recent worldwide survey of Headstrong showed the extent of bullying. Adolescents were asked questions about their personal experience and over 40% said they had been bullied at some point. It is quite shocking and amounts to almost half of all young people on a monthly, weekly or daily basis, which means it is constant bullying and intimidation.

Members have pointed out that bullying takes many forms, including physical bullying, verbal intimidation and social exclusion. Girls are the most vicious at isolating other girls in their class and excluding them. The pain and the sense of being cut off from one's peers is really tough. It is my experience that it goes on in girls schools. We need to do so much more to tackle bullying.

I do not seek to amend the motion. It is great more work is being done on bullying. I welcome the initiative of the Minister to set up the working group, which I gather is working well. I hope the timescale will be met, although it has been pushed back a little towards Christmas. While it is important that the job is done right, I hope the Christmas deadline can be met.

Over the summer, I did a lot of work on youth mental health, which is an issue I have spoken about on several occasions. I am personally interested in the topic. Fianna Fáil had its national conference in Galway in June and I met groups such as Headstrong, See Change, Suicide or Survive. There were representatives of teacher unions, management bodies and the Irish Primary Principals Network and others at the national conference. We wanted to start a conversation on what we need to do on youth mental health. Bullying was a major part of it and came up in all discussions. Equally, the point was made that the issue was broader than bullying. We must examine the consequences for young people and the emotional impact on them. We must give them the skills to get through. If young people feel they are in desperate emotional pain or in a hopeless situation because of depression, problems with their body image or sexual orientation, problems in the home such as marital breakup and financial pressure or bullying, these are different causes but the impact is the same. This was the message that came through to me from different groups. It is good that there is a spotlight on bullying and we must ensure we have more effective strategies in place in our education system.

The Minister referred to parents, which is a crucial aspect. We must ensure proper co-operation so that parents have a role to play. If children are on Facebook when they are too young to sign up to it, maybe it is because parents are not aware that they must engage further and need to know what their kids are looking at. They also need to know the risks to look out for. Schools cannot do everything but they have a strong part to play and we need to empower schools in that respect.

I sent a copy of our mental health paper to one of the Minister's officials after we published it. I ask the Minister to read it because it is genuinely based on a lot of consultation. There are many sensible suggestions, many of which are straightforward. An example is ensuring every school has its own mental health promotion plan in order that students and teachers and parents and the community are involved in it. School should also have access to services outside, such as jigsaw centres and specialised services for dealing with young people. We should promote peer support, both in the bullying context and elsewhere, and encourage young people to stand up for each other. The Minister is very aware of the BeLonGTo campaign and its powerful message that equipping young people to stand up and not tolerate any kind of intimidation is one of the most powerful things we can do.

I did not want this to be my main point because I did not want to approach this from a political perspective but it would be remiss of me not to ask the Minister to reconsider the decision on guidance counsellors. It is having an impact, which has been stressed to me in recent months. Without having a person in the school who can support young people and have the time and space to provide counselling support, there is a gap. It is one of the many suggestions in our report and I hope the Minister considers them.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister to the House and express my sincere sympathy and that of my colleagues to the families of those who have tragically died by suicide in recent times. I also pay tribute to Mr. Jonathan Pugsley, who was at the briefing this afternoon. It is a tribute and testament to the man and it is invaluable help to listen to the story. It gives us a further insight and helps to avoid future such situations.

It is a very unselfish act by the parents who come forward.

I pay tribute to my Fine Gael colleagues for bringing the motion to the House. Recently, the House debated homophobic bullying. The coverage in the media of the tragic deaths of two teenagers and the outcry following that, the report just published by the Ombudsman for Children on bullying in schools, the statement by the Minister for Justice and Equality on cyberbullying last week, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs's meeting with Facebook management to discuss online safeguards for children, and the series on RTE television programme, "Bullyproof", which concluded last night have all focused our minds on the far-reaching and serious repercussions of all forms of bullying.

I commend the Minister for the work done to date in tackling the issue of bullying in schools with the establishment of the anti-bullying forum. I await with great interest the action plan which I hope will be published before Christmas.

As a former teacher I know that schools have been engaged for a number of years in establishing school policies to deal with bullying, and all schools are obliged to include it in their school planning. The Department of Education and Skills inspectorate evaluates, advises and gives support on anti-bullying measures in inspections of SPHE, CSPE and RSE programmes in schools. Primary schools have to implement the Stay Safe programme, a personal safety skills programme for primary children that aims to reduce vulnerability to child abuse and bullying through the provision of personal safety education. We certainly need schools to evaluate the efficacy of their current anti-bullying programmes and to develop a whole-school approach to the issue.

The Ombudsman for Children's report states that 10,000 children every day struggle to go to school because of bullying. That is a pretty staggering figure and it does not even take into account the unreported cases or those children who are suffering in silence. In my teaching career I found it particularly difficult to deal with these children. I remember one particular student who became increasingly withdrawn over the course of a year. I could see weight coming off and would try to ask her if she was okay. One can sometimes sense that a child in such a situation does not want to be singled out and approached. One has to be very careful in how one deals with such a situation. One day I had the group for last class and when the girl was heading out at a quarter to four, I asked her if she was okay. A teacher has to give a child the time when he or she wants to come forward. The following day I found she had left a long and heartbreaking letter on my desk. Cyberbullying was not spoken of at that time. As Senator Power said, girls can be particularly cruel. This girl had not been physically hurt or even verbally abused. She had suffered isolation and a feeling of not belonging.

Some will say most bullying takes place outside school, but a great deal goes on inside schools.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It originates in school.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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It does. Some people think bullying affects a particular class or type of child. The cleverest, the richest or the poorest girl in the school can be bullied. Bullying does not discriminate. It can affect the rich, the poor, the clever or not so clever, the talented or the not so talented. This is why we need a whole-school approach and everyone looking at the problem.

I have gone away off my speech.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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The best things are often said spontaneously.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I think so too. All forms of bullying can only be tackled effectively if the whole school community is involved. It is important we have students, parents, teachers, principals and boards of management working together. Adequate in-service training must be provided and offered. The easy bit is sending a group of teachers on a course and establishing an anti-bullying policy. The difficult part is engaging the whole school community in order that everyone feels they have ownership of the decisions made and have been included right from the start. Parents in particular need to have the tools to recognise the early signs that their child is being bullied or is the bully and to deal with it.

There is no doubt that parents and schools are struggling with the whole area of cyberbullying. I welcome the measures that are in place. When the Department of Education and Skills started to fund the Webwise integrated education initiative in 2006, the world was a very different place. Schools could put Internet safety controls in place on school equipment and block harmful content. At home, parents could do the same and keep a careful eye on the family computer. There was usually only one computer in the home and it sat in the middle of the living room or in a common area where everyone used it. Now, the Internet is on our phone 24-7 and there seems to be no way to get away from it. I cannot remember the last time I actually switched off my phone. Last night, I remarked to my own children that when we try to watch a programme on television, there is a constant click of texts being received. It is never ending.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator's time is up.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I have so much more that I want to say.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Sentor must save it for another occasion.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I hope we will return to this topic. Terrific work is being done in schools and there are terrific teachers who deal with this problem above and beyond their duty. They are often not the SPHE or CSPE teachers. Teachers should not be obliged to teach CSPE or SPHE just because there is a gap in the timetable. Schools sometimes see it as a weakness if bullying is identified in their pupils. It should be seen as a sign of strength that a school is facing up to the fact that there is bullying and that the school is doing something about it.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. I commend the Fine Gael Senators for bringing this motion before us and initiating this timely debate. We have been debating the seriousness of bullying in all its forms for some time now, including here in the Seanad as recently as September when we had statements on homophobic bullying and the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, was present.

I note with great sadness the tragic deaths by suicide, linked to cyberbullying, of teenagers, Ciara Pugsley and Erin Gallagher, as the backdrop to this motion. Their tragic deaths by suicide must be the catalyst for real action to tackle the pernicious, pervasive and extremely dangerous phenomenon that is bullying. The motion, rightly, welcomes the improvements technology has brought to our lives, but we must also be cognisant of the new dangers such improvements inadvertently bring. Today, we are talking about cyberbullying but another issue of concern to me is the dissemination of child abuse material on the Internet.

It was demonstrated by the successful passage of the children's rights referendum on Saturday that the protection and welfare of children is a key concern in Ireland and must remain a top priority for all Members of the Oireachtas. In this regard, I welcome the commitment in the programme for Government as well as the anti-bullying forum and the working group to produce an action plan on bullying established by the Minister for Education and Skills. I look forward to seeing the roadmap the working group will produce. I hope the working group speaks of the need for effective structural changes in curriculum, policy, support services and teaching practice, and is for all children. Otherwise it will be a lost opportunity. I look forward to the Seanad debating the action plan when it is produced.

It is important to note that it is not possible to combat cyberbullying through legislation. Legislative provision capable of catching the kind of circumstances which prevail in cyberbullying cases, in the offence of harassment, is to be found under section 10 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997. This point is well made in a recent legal comment by Fergal Crehan, BL, who noted that "laws can only make things illegal, they cannot stop them from happening".

The law can only help in prosecuting disclosed cases of bullying but does not help in preventing the behaviour. We need to concentrate on tackling the behaviour. We must examine the prosecution aspect and ensure that when people present evidence those concerned will be prosecuted for breaking the law. We need a fundamental cultural shift in attitudes and values around bullying through a national strategy with a whole school community approach. We must redouble our awareness efforts in order that parents, teachers and communities know the signs as most of us would find it difficult to recognise them, especially in teenagers who are going through a troubled period in their life at the best of times. To recognise the signs is very difficult for any parent on his or her own. That is why there is a need for a whole community-school approach.

Cyberbullying can take many forms. The recent publication, A Guide to Cyber Bullying, prepared by the Office for Internet Safety, O2, Barnardos and the National Centre for Technology in Education, identified five types of cyber bullying: personal intimidation, impersonation, exclusion, personal humiliation and false reporting. The guide stated that such behaviour should be tackled with education and the role of the school is particularly important. It was pointed out in the excellent briefing earlier that all too often, schools tend not to promote their bullying policies but will promote many other policies. By promoting the fact that they have a policy on bullying is almost a way of emitting some deficiency in the school. We need to reduce that stigma and grow up. Schools need to say what they are doing.

Senator Moran's experience was telling. Many children will not tell about a bullying experience because of the shame and often they present in medical conditions. I had one girl involved in youth work who ended up hospitalised and on a drip. When we got down to the issues it was clear she was being bullied. Very often children will present with medical conditions because they believe it is their only way to get out of their situation.

The role of adults has been mentioned. There is saying to the effect that children do not pick it off the streets. I have just been through a referendum campaign where those on both sides of the debate shouted at one another and used strong language. On some programmes such as "Frontline" I sometimes feel there is a pack mentality.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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Absolutely.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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We need to be careful. All too often we talk about the children and say they need to be nice to one another and kind to one another, yet it is considered acceptable for me to shout and use abusive language and tell another person that he or she is stupid because I know better. We need to challenge ourselves as adults about our behaviour.

It is important that the curriculum is not used in its standard form. Earlier the National Youth Council of Ireland gave a presentation on youth arts and Roscommon Youth Theatre performed an eight to ten minute play on bullying. It was powerful and the young people showed empathy. By preparing and writing the play they were able to get an understanding of the different sides of what happens in a bullying situation. Whether it is sport, as Senator Eamonn Coghlan said, or arts we must use different ways to address the issue.

There is also the issue of child abuse material on the Internet which I will raise again with the Minister for Justice and Equality, having done so last year. The debate is welcome and I hope we can now proceed to take action to address this aspect.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join in the welcome to the Minister to discuss this important, issue which is exercising the minds of many people. I welcome the fact that there is such cross-party support for the motion as it is a major issue in all our communities. I was present in the AV room for the presentation which was one of the most striking I have seen for a long time and also one of the best attended. The anti-bullying coalition gave us a good insight into its concerns and was complimentary of what the Minister has done so far and also about what, I hope, will come from the working group and may be rolled out in the future.

The presentation by Mr. Jonathan Pugsley was particularly heart-rending. For a man who laid his dear daughter to rest less than eight weeks ago it took some courage to come in and speak to Members about his concerns. He made one telling comment. He said that he and his family were not equipped to see the problem nor was the school or community particularly equipped to see it. That is an issue that will have to be addressed.

Like other Senators, I extend my sympathy to all the families throughout the country who have been devastated by suicide. We all know families, friends, neighbours and constituents who have suffered in this way. There are many causes of suicide. Some have had mental health issues. Some were probably caused by financial pressures or broken relationships, and inevitably bullying, as we have seen in a number of high profile cases recently, particularly that of Ciara Pugsley and Erin Gallagher. It is a huge challenge for society. Bullying, as Senator Eamonn Coghlan and others have alluded to, is not a new phenomenon in schools.

We all remember from our school days instances of weaker or gay students being singled out for physical and psychological abuse. One in four girls and one in six boys are guilty of traditional bullying. The majority of those involved in cyberbullying are also involved in traditional bullying. While we welcome the technological advances, we are aware that uncontrolled bullying has the potential to seriously damage the lives of young people. One incident of cyberbullying has the potential to go global and it leaves a permanent footprint. That is the frightening aspect about the Internet, Facebook and all the other social media outlets. Parents have a responsibility to be aware of who their children are interacting with on social media, websites and mobile phones but in many cases they are ill-equipped to deal with it as technology has gone ahead of them. There is much work to be done to educate parents on the power and dangers of the Internet. The service providers also have a role to play. I do not know how the issue can be controlled but the Government must look at the service providers to ascertain whether they are acting responsibly.

The problem can only be solved by various Departments working together. In this regard education and the health services have a major role to play. Often for a child who has been bullied his or her first interaction will be with somebody within the health service. A doctor, a psychologist or a nurse may become aware of problems being experienced by a child as a result of bullying. There is a need for joined-up thinking between the services. There is a need to heighten awareness.

We have powerful media outlets. In the AV room, somebody alluded to the effectiveness of the Saorview campaign in alerting people to the fact that unless they took certain action their television would not work after 25 October. A similarly high profile campaign is needed to alert people to the dangers and tell-tale signs of bullying. We need to promote a culture among young people of looking out for each other, which is something that can happen within the schools.

Much of the bullying is symptomatic of the social problems in the country. We cannot underestimate the pressures under which vulnerable young people are being put by ruthless people involved in drug dealing. I know of many young people who took their lives because they might have incurred some debts they were unable to meet and pressure was being put on them. We cannot underestimate that and it is something we need to address. While we could debate the problem of suicide forever, there are issues we need to address and that is one of them.

David Norris (Independent)
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The Acting Chairman, Senator Quinn, could be taken as a prime example of somebody who does not bully and is very gracious with other people. He was scheduled to be next to speak and could very easily have made an arrangement with the previous Acting Chairman to stay in the Chair, but he very graciously yielded to me and that is an example of the kind of courtesy that negates bullying. There seems to be a great decline in the levels of courtesy and respect one human being shows to another. It is throughout society and there is considerable hypocrisy around it.

It is important that we have this debate. I am not sure we will get anything new from it. I hope we will. It seems to combine two elements, the first of which is bullying and we are all against bullying. It is easy enough for everybody to be against bullying. The second is something that is sometimes the result of bullying, which is suicide. I tried to amend this motion, not, I hope, in an aggressive or unpleasant manner, but because I would have liked to query why the Government has not yet appointed a director of the National Office of Suicide Prevention, an issue I would like the Minister to take back to the Cabinet. If we are serious about this and not just grandstanding, these are the kinds of things we need to do. That office has been left vacant for the past year and I know other colleagues have brought this to the attention of the House, as I have. As I said, I wanted to amend the motion but the amendment was ruled out of order.

We need to look at the whole basis of society. Things have changed, to a certain extent for the better. In the old days children were not listened to. If they went home and told a parent or guardian that they had been slapped in school by a teacher or that they had been clouted in the playground, they might well have received another clout from the parent who might have said: "You probably deserved it, you little brat." Things have changed completely. When I was in boarding school the poor little creature next to me, who came from a broken family, wet the bed. His nose was rubbed in it before all the rest of the boys in the dormitory and he was shamed. He ran away and was killed by a car crossing the road. I have been a witness to bullying, which was endemic in the boarding school I attended. There is, of course, physical violence. Coincidentally, tomorrow I will launch a novel by a talented young writer, Oran Ryan. I have just finished reading it and although I thought it was going to be a pretty ghastly book, it turned out to be a very subtle book, revolving entirely around the devastating impact of bullying on a child in a school for gifted children.

I am very glad Senator Eamonn Coghlan raised the question of homophobic bullying. It is terribly important that somebody who is an icon in the sporting world and a kind of epitome of masculinity should raise this subject, even in a brief manner. I am glad that Senator Power referred to BeLonG To, a wonderful group that has stood against homophobic bullying. However, it still continues, particularly in schools. It is the most consistent element in bullying.

I said I felt that bullying was ingrained in our culture. I also attended the meeting at which Mr. Pugsley spoke. While he was speaking, a succession of photographs were displayed. They showed an attractive girl with what seemed to be a lovely boyfriend, a sporting trophy and all sorts of things that bespoke the positive life. I wondered who she was. It was Ciara Pugsley. The photographs gave no indication that she was in such distress. It is important to find out. How does one know? How does one open oneself to somebody who is being bullied?

Last year I met a large number of groups and individuals who were involved in the area of suicide prevention. I am sure the Minister will know them. They largely sprang up organically from the experience of suicide, often of a person who was bullied. If it has not been done, it would be very useful to include those groups that sprang up organically because they have the direct experience. They did not come to it from a theoretical point of view. They came to it because they had the agonising experience of suffering this situation.

Obviously we need to look at the area of mental health and suicide. This was challenged by one of our colleagues from the Lower House who did not believe it had anything to do with mental health, but of course it has. The whole point of bullying is to create "dis-ease", disease, in the object of the bullying, and to upset, humiliate and degrade him or her and make him or her feel inferior. There is a fair amount of hypocrisy because there is also bullying in political life. It lives on bullying. Some people in this House spend their time twiddling around on those telephones or whatever they are, tweeting, or whatever they call it, negative comments about their colleagues. Why do they not blather about bullying? Let us be consistent and not just grandstand all the time.

Bullying is endemic in society. There is a whole cultural endorsement and engagement in bullying, and people love it. There is a huge audience appeal in bullying and that is why we have "I'm A Celebrity ... Get Me Out Of Here!" I have only occasionally seen it, but they make them eat insects and worms. That is why they have the awful "X-Factor" where they humiliate people who have absolutely no talent. That is why people watch it. It is disgusting.

The Minister will know this, but he deals very effectively and well with it. The media are one of the biggest bullies. People of no distinction and complete banality take on Cabinet Ministers from all parties who have the responsibility on their shoulders of making decisions, and they attempt to grind them into submission. Let us look at the whole culture.

I used to watch a wrestling programme moderated by Kent Walton of Granada Television in Manchester. It was great fun and everybody enjoyed it. Now we have World Wrestling Federation where they cheat and injure each other. It is a real endorsement of bullying. On a political level, what about the drones? What are our friends, the Americans, doing with their mechanical instruments of death up in the sky that kill people who are not even associated with al-Qaeda in addition to occasionally getting a target they would regard as appropriate?

Jimmy Harte (Labour)
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I thank the Minister for coming to the House to discuss the issue. I also thank the Fine Gael Members for tabling this motion. I join other Members in paying my respects publicly to the family of Erin Gallagher who died tragically. Part of the collateral damage in that case was that her young brother was present when the suicide occurred. I would hope there could be some help in that area. There are so many aspects to cyberbullying and emotional bullying. Humans are not like other animals in that we engage in damaging other people physically, mentally and emotionally. It starts in the schoolyard and continues on through marriage and employment. Cases have been cited of bullying people who are disabled because it is easy. As Senator Moran said, every parent thinks that his or her child is not a bully when much of the time the bully lives within the house. The most difficult part is to identify a bully. We have all seen them in action at school, at work, in politics, as Senator Norris said, and in life in general.

I heard an interesting conversation on the radio about a suicide in Spain. It was stated it is unusual for people in southern Europe to commit suicide and that it is a northern European phenomenon. I do not know how this translates throughout the world and whether Africa and Asia are more like northern or southern Europe. Perhaps we can examine whether bullying is an issue specific to certain countries or cultures. In the UK and Ireland bullying is highlighted regularly and it is a crime against the person. It has been said that pressure is other people, and these other people can be eight, ten or 50 years old. There is a role for parents, teachers, employers and everyone who interacts with people on a daily basis to ensure bullying is not part of any such interaction. We all meet very respectful and outgoing people who we assume are mentally adjusted and who work in very prominent jobs. However, when one sits down with them perhaps they tell one of something that happened in their past which was related to bullying.

As previous speakers stated, certain boys and girls use strong arm tactics to pick on the weak people in the group. We must confront this and admit it happens more than occasionally. I believe it is learned behaviour and it can be unlearned. We have seen recent tragedies and I am sure more tragedies related to bullying will occur. People are fearful every day of the week. Children as young as four or five are pressured by other children or adults within and outside the family and this terror does not go away. It is constant.

There has been a history in this country of abuse and now cyberabuse is on a different level. For generations, in industrial homes in this country children were abused and bullied by the State and individuals. The saddest part for many of these children is that they did not have a birthday or Christmas. All they had was an existence and they were bullied into believing they were not useful. This is not a modern phenomenon. It has happened for generations. In a perverse way the Internet may give us an opportunity to halt this or highlight it so much that people will realise that bullying is a crime against the person. I thank the Minister for coming to the House. He is a reforming Minister and I am sure he will take on board the comments made by Senators. Perhaps he will return in a year to report that progress has been made and that something positive has been done.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. There has been much talk about bullying in schools. I am glad to say at the outset that none of the Minister's nephews bullied me at school and I was not there long enough to have bullied the sons of Eamonn Coghlan who attended the same school.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is well able to fight his corner.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris made the point very well that adults and people in the public eye, which the Senator is much more than I, should watch their conduct. The Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas are the ultimate bullies. When one considers what will be shown on "Oireachtas Report" this evening it is highly unlikely to be anybody praising a Minister or a Member of the Opposition praising a Member of the Government or vice versa. It tends to be highly adversarial and highly charged. We should be careful.

Senator Norris also made a point about the B-rated television programmes which we all support. These magazines and shows which advocate bullying and put forward bullying, downgrading and denigrating people as a sport are supported and recorded in all of our households. We might often joke about politics being a spectator sport for all the wrong reasons but there is a message in this.

With regard to cyberbullying, I got into awful trouble politically about a year and a half ago for something I said in the House, and because of its nature it went viral very quickly. It had to do with politics.ie and thejournal.ie. I questioned one's right to anonymity while on the Internet. I do not know how one would deal with this from a legislative perspective nationally or internationally, but the Government of the day should use whatever international fora are open to it with regard to the Internet or co-operation in this regard because anonymity is the single biggest issue to be dealt with. The anonymity allowing one to be Mickey Mouse in one chatroom and Ed Dantes in another while I can be Eamonn Coghlan in the next chatroom and he can be Marc MacSharry in the one after that, is a major problem. We are all thick skinned and on political websites we are all subject to very substantial abuse with all types of language being used, but it is the business we have chosen.

Facebook is reasonably well managed in that abusive language can be removed quite quickly. However, other sites are not policed or regulated and it is not possible to regulate them. People have as heroes those who probably between downloading pornography dip into these sites to hurl abuse under the relative anonymity of a pseudonym. I do not know how the Minister will deal with this, but if I were to pick one area I would like to see addressed it is anonymity on the Internet because this would help us. Senator Eamonn Coghlan is absolutely correct to state there has always been bullying and if we had no Facebook or Ask.fm we would still have bullying and, sadly, we would still have suicides we could relate to bullying.

This is not a political bashing exercise, but as soon as resources can be diverted from elsewhere, the Minister must reverse the move on guidance counsellors. In addition he must consider putting career guidance counsellors in primary schools. People might laugh at this, but adolescence naturally brings pressures in its own right as people get older and worry about sexual orientation and body image, and pupils pick subjects at the age of 12 which will dictate what they do when they are 21 and they are not equipped for this. They need help with this and I do not think the teacher training provided adequately equips secondary or primary school teachers to tell students they are ideal for physics, Spanish or technical drawing. We need people with specialist expertise to assist in this regard.

We are all united in the wish for a solution to suicide, but we are divided on how we think we should go about it. I am working on the Fianna Fáil policy in this area at present. Senator Power made proposals on youth mental health and my proposals will dovetail with these with regard to suicide prevention. For the want of a better phrase, at times it suits to be able to state suicide A was linked to cyberbullying, suicide B was linked to mental health and suicide C was linked to financial issues. Society has failed on this issue and despite the report published in 2006, countless Administrations involving Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Labour Party have got this issue wrong for a generation or two and the figures speak for themselves.

We need to change the structural report.

Some of the basis of the proposals that I will bring forward, probably after Christmas, will be a structural approach which would, as others have mentioned, mirror the likes of the Road Safety Authority. It is a completely different issue but structurally it was correct in how it was approached. Suicide prevention measures are like headless chicken going in all directions. They have good intentions but are failing. If resources for the National Office for Suicide Prevention were linked to the number of deaths, as those of the Road Safety Authority are, it would be receiving ¤64 million per year as opposed to just ¤7 million. In recent days a director was appointed to the office, as mentioned by Senator Norris. He is a former manager of the HSE in the midlands area. I am sure he is excellent and will do an excellent job, but I did not see the post advertised anywhere. The role requires a broader trawl when seeking someone to head up the office.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire go dtí an Teach arís. Bullying is a difficult subject but I will commence on a positive note. I know the Minister is committed to dealing with the problem and is trying to figure out the best way to do so. I want to afford him the space to get it right because I would hate it to be done too quickly and for us not to get it right. I am confident the Minister will do his best and time will tell if the problem is resolved.

Bullying is an horrendous experience for anybody, let alone a child, a young adult, a pre-teen or a teenager. The consequences can be lifelong for those who survive and that indicates its seriousness. Unfortunately, there have been too many examples of young people who did not survive. A young boy from one of the schools in my town in County Clare committed suicide three days before his junior certificate examination. It had an horrendous effect on the children in his class. As the HSE quickly provided counselling, the apparatus of the State, to a certain extent, dealt with the emergency before the junior certificate examination took place. His family have adopted a positive approach by setting up the William Winder Rainbow Foundation and they fund-raise to make counsellors available to schools to help children in need. His family use social media in a positive way. I have attended a couple of their functions and admire their work. There are plenty of other organisations like them around the country doing admirable work.

I would like to see a small number of national organisations properly resourced and funded. Many organisations have been set up in communities following tragedies. They do great work but I would like to see a more co-ordinated approach. Perhaps the Government could examine how we can utilise the fantastic work that is being done and bring the organisations together into one single thread in order that we can benefit from the goodwill, hard work, commitment and the time given by people who care. I have spoken to many of them and know of their care and commitment.

I would like to talk about the effect bullying can have on people with disabilities. Young people with disabilities who want to go through mainstream education face challenges already without having to deal with bullying. Unfortunately, disability has a tendency to create difference which can be rounded on by children in a negative fashion. A national strategy must take cognisance of young children with disabilities who want to access mainstream education. We promote mainstream education and it is the right thing for people with disabilities. It is the only way to ensure that people with disabilities are integrated, but with that comes a responsibility to keep an eye on young people with disabilities, particularly minor disabilities. Sometimes a person with a minor disability can suffer much more than a person with severe disabilities.

The Internet is a new phenomenon but that is all. During my research for this evening's Private Member's motion, I looked at the Ask.fm website because it was referred to in the media. It claimed that a person's identity will never be revealed, which is one of its selling points. A person can say what he or she likes with the absolute confidence of anonymity. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.

We must also examine mobile phones and text messages with regard to bullying. Any young person, from whatever age upwards, can walk into a mobile telephone shop and buy one for ¤10, a SIM card for ¤5 or multiple SIM cards, if they have the money. There is no registration or traceability. I know from travelling in Spain that one can only buy a SIM card on the production of a passport, which is photocopied by the shop staff. That means there is traceability. It would not take a lot of legislation to introduce such a simple measure and perhaps it could be done through regulation. It would lead to the creation of a national database for mobile phone numbers and eliminate the unnecessary anonymity.

I know, as do all Senators, that the Minister is committed to resolving the problem of bullying and we wish him well. If there is anything we can do that is constructive, aside from having debates, he should tell us because we are ready to do it. Bullying is a national problem that needs to be dealt with.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister and this debate, which I have found very educational. I am pleased the Minister is in the chair and believe he can make something happen.

Could we introduce some new ideas in schools? Could we ask a group of students to act as safety teams in order to teach other students about bullying and its dangers. They rather than the teachers could set parameters and decide how to spread an anti-bullying message. Schools have the social, personal and health education programme, but I am not sure we are doing enough to give people the tools to fight bullying. Could we bolster the subject of bullying? We should examine ways to strengthen young people's self-esteem and resilience and help them deal with challenging situations in schools. Bullying is so prevalent in schools but we have to make it completely taboo. How can we do that? Should we circulate questionnaires on bullying? Should students be screened for their risk of suicide? My questions are unpleasant but they must be asked. It could save lives. The US Surgeon General has suggested that screening to detect those at risk of suicide may be one of the most effective means of preventing suicide in children and adolescents through mediums such as questionnaires. It is interesting that studies undertaken in this area, asking schools or asking about screening for suicide, does not appear to increase the number of suicides.

We must also remember that teachers may be subjected to insulting or bullying behaviour online by students. Is there a place for teachers to report such behaviour? Are some teachers scared to report it in case he or she is perceived as weak? Do all school principals listen to such complaints? We need to establish a procedure where parents can be contacted if such messages are made public.

Employers must take this issue very seriously.

It is also positive to see that rules on inappropriate Facebook contact or texting students are to be added to the professional code of conduct for teachers. The state of Missouri in the United States has gone further and has completely prohibited social networking between teachers and students. Perhaps this has a simple limiting effect on the issue of inappropriate behaviour between students and teachers, including bullying.

Businesses focus on results. I would like to see schools do the same. They should be assessed on how they are making progress in this area. It is no good implementing activities ad hoc. The Government needs to standardise the measurements. In a more general sense, new research has shown that cyberbullying is as common in the workplace as conventional bullying. It is not limited to children. In the United Kingdom scientists found that eight out of ten people had experienced some form of cyberbullying at least once in the previous six months. Furthermore, almost one in five stated they had experienced it on a weekly basis or more often, which is considered a similar rate to conventional bullying. The study found that:

Overall, those who had experienced cyberbullying tended to have higher mental strain and lower job satisfaction. In one of our surveys, this effect was shown to be worse for cyberbullying than for conventional bullying.

There is a problem with anonymity on certain websites that allows the bully to hide. A recent suicide case highlighted that problem. I think that regulation on this in terms of those under 18 years has a big part to play in ensuring bullies cannot get away with it.

How does a parent identify if his or her child is a bully? Parents must be given the tools to enable them to ask their child if he or she has ever done anything online to hurt or to upset anyone. They have to understand the importance of emphasising that being cruel to other children and taking part in an activity that could hurt them is wrong. How do we encourage parents to address this challenge?

I am glad the Minister is examining legislation in this area. I welcome the Government's progress. I am glad to be able to contribute to the debate. I am very pleased the debate has taken place and congratulate those who tabled the motion and the others who got involved in the debate. By drawing attention to this issue, we may be able to help the Minister achieve success.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
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I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak to the motion. I welcome the Minister. He has been sitting in every room I have entered today.

I join my colleagues in extending deepest sympathy to every family that has been affected by suicide, particularly suicide related to bullying. Bullying in schools is an issue at the forefront of media and public attention. Is it not sad that it takes a tragic youth suicide to bring this to public attention? Communities need to recognise that the problem is not just confined to schools but goes on everywhere. For children to grow up in an environment in which they can reach their potential, everyone must be involved in tackling all forms of bullying. The victims of bullying feel isolated, alone and afraid. These feelings only get worse when there is no one to turn to. Parents can only do so much with teenagers. Things get increasingly worse in the mind of the child experiencing bullying. I am saddened that the economic climate has necessitated cuts to the number of careers guidance counsellors in schools. Some guidance counsellors were excellent and connected with their pupils, and pupils felt they could go to the guidance counsellor with their problems. I hope that as the situation improves, it will be a priority for the posts of guidance counsellor to be filled. It may not happen in the lifetime of the Government but I hope that some government will prioritise guidance services for students.

The print media have covered the tragic circumstances of youth suicide, but in all the articles I have never once seen a reference to the telephone number of the helpline for those affected by suicide. The media has a role to play and could suggest that people who are feeling lonely, sad, depressed, suicidal or bullied should ring this helpline. As paper never refused ink, that number could be printed.

I am delighted the Government announced an anti-bullying forum early in the life of the new Dáil. I hope the action plan will be produced as soon as possible. We need to change our approach to bullying. We need to begin to stop bullying rather than dealing with the consequences. We need to give teachers the tools to prevent bullying in schools. This means workshops on the causes of bullying, prevention measures and so on.

Teachers care for the welfare of their pupils and that may be overlooked. We need to create an environment in which teachers can teach. We must educate students to prevent bullying happening in the first place. The social, personal and health education and the civic, social and political education curricula need to be enhanced in order that students are taught to accept, respect and tolerate others. This should not end in the classroom. Schools and local communities should connect to ensure teenagers are interacting with each other.

With regard to the issue of cyberbullying which appears to be rampant, greater vigilance is needed. Websites have administrators who do the best they can. They must be alert to this and try to stamp out cyberbullying.

Bullying is nothing new. In the old days before new technology, pupils had the safe haven of home and could get away from the bullying, but that is not the case anymore because the Internet, Facebook, Twitter and texting are in the home and the bullying follows them home. They can no longer shut it out.

We need to educate parents on how to use the Internet and social media. Some parents would not have a clue. Recently a woman asked me to teach her how to text. Parents should be taught how to monitor what is happening on the Internet.

Some teenagers are really good and we had evidence of that when Comhairle na nÓg made a presentation to the education committee. They spoke about mental health and cyberbullying. We can learn from them as they made suggestions on how some of the issues can be dealt with. We should listen to what they are saying.

I do not envy the Minister's task because I do not know how to legislate for cyberbullying, but I hope he will find a way. I commend the Fine Gael Senators who tabled this motion.

Kathryn Reilly (Sinn Fein)
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I move amendment No. 1:

After "teachers and students with internet safety advice;" to insert the following:
"acknowledges the value of quality-assured resources like Inspire Ireland?s ReachOut.com and others given that the Internet is now the preferred source of mental health information and support for our young people;
is aware of Inspire Ireland?s work on behalf of the Health Service Executive in the development of good practice guidelines for the safe delivery of online mental health support, due to be launched in the coming months;".

We are all aware of very recent cases where cyberbullying has led to suicide among young people.

Suicide is always a grave tragedy and where the Internet plays a role we must examine what can be done to prevent it. When I was in school technology, in terms of widespread use of the Internet, was not prevalent. At that stage we had only the advent of mobile phones, which were the size of bricks. I am not old but the technology was only coming in then and bullying occurred only in the school or in other social outlets where there was one to one contact or group interaction as opposed to the silent interactions on social media and other networks. Bullying is occurring in the school environment in an unseen way. Even though mobile phones are not allowed in the classroom and can be taken from students, students have their mobile phones with them and bullying occurs through Facebook, other social media and texting. While teachers and parents may not see the bullying occur on school campus, it happens through such networks on phones in students' pockets and when they open up their phones at lunch time they will see it. There is no point in saying students do not have their phones with them in school because they do. I know that from my Facebook news feed indicating that my cousins have posted pictures of themselves at lunchtime in school. Students have their phones with them in school and bullying will occur through their phones in their pockets.

Senators Power and Moloney mentioned that bullying affects young people in their homes, in their bedrooms, places where they are supposed to be safe and which should be a refuge for them. The story books tell us of trolls under the bridge but now there are Internet trolls like those on Twitter and Facebook who seem to live to give abuse. They probably have their own issues that need to be dealt with but there are people, those trolls, who give lots of people abuse. We see it on Twitter where high profile people such as celebrities and footballers get abuse. It is the normalising of that which is the problem and we need to deal with that.

I will not push our amendment to a vote but I wish to deal with the background to the motion. Many young people are very capable of pointing out the dangers of the social network interactions of which they are a part. They know about issues of anonymity and ignorance in terms of the consequence of one's actions in theory and many of them are capable of pointing to solutions such as education for victims, the need for the State through the Garda or other bodies to work with Facebook and other social media outlets. There are many programmes such as Stay Safe in schools. There is education in this area and there are many resources online for young people such as SpunOut which guides young people on how to be safe online and, more importantly, how to deal with cyberbullying or text bullying. As public representatives, we have a duty to bring these guidelines to the attention of young people and their parents and teachers. I acknowledge the good work being done by the Government and it is recognised in the motion. I hope the upcoming action plan will be given the importance required to tackle this problem.

The reason we tabled an amendment to the motion is to show the positive impact the Internet can have on young people who may be victims of bullying and who are dealing with mental health issues in general. We are the Goggle generation and we cannot run from that. People my age or younger who want to find out something search for it on Google. We need to examine how we can harness this for the good. That is the reason our amendment commends the work of ReachOut and other services which offer young people a friendly, accessible online service. One of the places young people are likely to go to get a solution is online. Inspire Ireland's work with the HSE in providing safety guidelines to young people will be launched in the next few months and it should be recognised by us. Our amendment to the motion is designed to show that there is a positive side to the Internet in terms of young people, bullying and mental health. For every case involving tragedy caused by bullying we need to take account of the hundreds of young people who find useful and important information online designed for young people through organisations such as ReachOut, Headstrong and SpunOut.

I hope the House will accept the amendment to the motion as it will give it a balanced approach. It would not take from the importance of the motion but it would give the positive side. The Internet, while it is a danger, it is also an avenue young people use to tackle these very issues. That is my input and I thank the Fine Gael Senators for bringing forward the motion.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Is the Sinn Féin amendment being seconded?

Kathryn Reilly (Sinn Fein)
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I do not have anyone here to second it.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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Then the amendment falls.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I call on the Minister to respond and when he concludes, I hope we will be able to accommodate all the Senators who have indicated they wish to speak.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank all the Senators for allowing me to speak on this debate in the Seanad. I will bring to the attention of the working group on anti-bullying all the comments made in this debate. I will give the working group a link to the debate in order that it can take on board all the comments that have been made and will be made after I have finished speaking.

On a personal note on behalf of the Government, I take the opportunity to express our sympathy to the families and friends of all of those who lost their lives so tragically to suicide recently, to which reference has been already made.

There is a specific commitment in the programme for Government to help schools tackle bullying and in particular homophobic bullying which underlines the Government's commitment to tackling this issue. It was with this in mind that I, along with my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Fitizgerald, convened a forum on anti-bullying on 17 May this year. Remarkably and coincidentally, this was the first time the Department of Education and Skills together with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs had hosted a dedicated forum on this sensitive issue. The event which coincided with the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia provided an opportunity to bring together a range of stakeholders to consider what changes to existing policies and practices in schools might be needed to effectively tackle bullying. I also want to identify practical steps, some of which have been referenced already, and recommendations that could be taken to improve how schools approach and tackle bullying. A wide range of expertise and experiences were shared on the day. More than 100 stakeholders attended. These included experts in the field of bullying, support groups for victims of bullying, representatives from the schools sector, and NGOs such as the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, known as GLEN, and BeLonG To Youth Services.

I have also established a working group to consider how best to tackle all forms and types of bullying in schools. On the day of the forum, I issued a call for submissions from all interested parties and stakeholders. I invited students, teachers, parents and all other interested parties to submit their views on this very important topic by 29 June of this year in order that the working group could take full account of all the issues and viewpoints involved. It is a measure of the concern about bullying that more than 65 submissions have been received from the education partners, representative groups, experts and individuals. The working group has been considering these submissions along with the outcomes and recommendations of the forum. During the past few months, the group has also consulted a range of stakeholders and colleagues in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK. The group is working on an action plan recommending further measures that can be taken to effectively tackle bullying in schools. I have asked the group to submit its action plan in draft form to me by the end of November in order that it can be circulated to the wider community with a view to having it published hopefully by the end of this year or as soon as it is complete.

I am conscious other Senators wish to contribute and obviously the mover of the motion has to respond. I will conclude by saying that I welcome the fact that this House has concentrated so much time on this issue. We will take into account very carefully the constructive suggestions and proposals that have been made and hopefully early in the new year we will be in a position to bring forward a policy to which we can all subscribe. I recognise that many Senators referred to the role of guidance counsellors and the need for pastoral care in our school system. Sadly and because of pressures that were self-evident, I had to take decisions that were taken with a heavy heart. Senator Moloney spoke about the need to restore the allocation as soon as we are in a position to do so. The role probably should be broadened to include wider pastoral care and to avail of other supports on the career guidance side and to recognise the specialist role that pastoral care and guidance counsellors traditionally have provided in our schools. I will complete my comments to facilitate the debate on this issue.

I assure the House that I have listened very carefully to the contributions that have been made and will take them into account.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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In his deliberations, the Minister mentioned a few of the points that I was going to raise. Bullying can have a terrible and corrosive impact on children and young people, on their confidence, self-esteem and mental health. The effects of bullying can last for years, as previous speakers have said. The programme for Government commits to supporting schools in developing strategies to combat homophobic bullying and to support students so affected.

A research study from the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, entitled Growing Up in Ireland, highlights how over 24% of nine to 17 year olds have reported being bullied. That is almost one in four in this age group.

Research by the anti-bullying centre at Trinity College Dublin highlights how one in four girls and one in six boys in Ireland have been involved in cyberbullying either as a victim, bully or both. Bullying in school can ruin a young person's enjoyment of some of the most important years of their young lives. In extreme situations - tragically, as we have learned recently - it can lead to youngpeople taking their own lives. This is to be regretted.

The programme for Government includes a specific commitment to encourage schools to develop anti-bullying policies and, in particular, strategies to combat homophobic bullying and support students.

The Minister has mentioned the anti-bullying forum. In May this year, the first dedicated anti-bullying forum was convened by the Minister himself along with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. This was the first time that the Department of Education and Skills, together with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, hosted a dedicated forum with students' and parents' representatives, education stakeholders, academics and other experts to address this issue. I commend the Minister, as others have done, for his efforts to date.

Alongside the forum, the Minister established a working group on tackling bullying, including homophobic, cyber and racist bullying. The Minister has invited stakeholders and all interested parties to submit their views for consideration by the working group. Fair play to the Minister for this important initiative.

In recent months the group has been consulting a range of stakeholders and colleagues overseas, including the United Kingdom. The group is working on an action plan recommending further measures that can be taken effectively to tackle bullying in schools. I look forward to seeing this action plan, which I understand will be completed by the end of this year.

A key element in dealing with bullying is having a school culture of awareness of the seriousness of the issue, and having in place a whole-school approach to dealing with it. Anti-bullying policies work best where the entire school community, including school management authorities, staff, students and parents, supports it and adheres to it.

Cyberbullying is a manifestation of bullying and refers to instances where it is carried on using - or, more correctly, abusing - modern technology. It seems more prevalent among younger people but I know it is not confined to that group. I can assure the Minister that fadó, fadó there was no technology in any shape or form when I was going to school. I hope my colleagues did not witness what I did in those days. Each and every boy and girl was bullied when I was at school. It was not one in four or one in six. Each and every one of them was bullied by our teachers. In fact, their own children were bullied in my presence in that same school. Imagine going home to a father who had bullied you at school that day and when I say bullying, I mean bullying. Not one of us escaped it at school. The cane was taken to the football field and outside the church on Sunday morning.

Senator Norris referred to going home from school and mentioning it to one's parents, but it did not happen. None of my colleagues did it for the simple reason that they would be beaten again at home and told they deserved it.

Parents and teachers must develop an awareness of bullying and must be especially aware of how mobile phones and other means of communication can be used to intimidate and harass young people. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of constant vigilance by family and teachers, and the constant need to remind young people themselves of the damage that bullying in any form can cause.

For the past three years, more than 500 people per annum have been taking their own lives, which is a catastrophe. Can the Minister imagine if we had an air crash that killed 500 people and what the outcry would be? I do not wish to compare what is happening to an air crash, but I wish to indicate what is happening year in, year out. We all have a part to play in combating that.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister to the House and thank him for his characteristic courtesy in facilitating other contributions by cutting short his speech. We will obviously read it with great interest but I appreciate that gesture very much.

A lot of good work is being done and I compliment those who have tabled the motion before us. Resources such as websites and booklets are often insufficient to help parents and teachers to cope with cyberbullying. In some ways they require an active initiative on the part of parents who often do not bother to check a website or read an advice sheet until their own child gets into trouble. One of the big challenges facing us is the need to engage in preventative education for parents, children and teachers.

I acknowledge a person I knew in a previous life, Mr. Gerard Malone, who is present in the Visitors Gallery. He reminds me of the very important work being done by career guidance counsellors who, more than ever, have to shoulder this pastoral role. Among the issues they are coming across are children who are victims of cyberbullying. It is not just from this country either because, with the wide-ranging nature of Internet communication, the attacking comments and cruel treatment can often emanate from abroad.

There is a challenge to teach children to behave responsibly online just as they are taught to behave responsibly and ethically at offline social gatherings, such as birthday parties and schoolyard recreation. Schools have a vital role because it is there, among other places, that children learn to behave ethically and with respect, etiquette, good manners and generosity. The same values need to be inculcated in children when they use the Internet.

Children should be helped to avoid developing a twofold persona, one for when they socialise offline and another for engaging with others on the Internet. The primary schools curriculum could incorporate modules for teaching those principles. Teachers themselves can often be at a loss as to how to help children to develop habits that the teachers never had to learn when they were young.

I have a particular memory from starting in secondary school. The school principal, a nun as it happened, made it clear from the outset that the school would be a cold house for bullying. She had picked up on something about a child who had a particular physiognomy and she left us in no doubt that there would be serious consequences if there was any evidence of bullying as a result. That is the sort of clear understanding that must be established in any situation where two or more are gathered and where children's ideas and values are being formed. It begins in the home and we cannot ignore what happens there but it is vital the good work be done in schools as well. It is not enough to just emphasise the idea that a person has a right not to be bullied, which he or she does. Bullying is so insidious that a positive culture of respect must be spread out to promote behaviour that begins with respect.

The Minister mentioned homophobic bullying, which is very important. There is evidence it is frequently not given the same attention as other forms of bullying. There is no first class and no second class of bullying. All bullying is equally odious and all forms should be treated with zero tolerance. I am also concerned there are children who do not report bullying because they think their situation is unique to themselves if the bullying is related to physical appearance. It may be less likely that a child in that situation is able to report at the time or afterwards that he is being bullied.

We must remember bullying is not just confined to children, although that is our focus this evening. We must only look at the drinking culture in this country, and the way in which the non-drinker was frequently made to feel, although I hope that is not still the case so much. That should be addressed in a substantive way.

I note the good work being done by the National Parents Council offering talks in schools for parents because often these are not publicised. In particular, I emphasise the importance of what peers or slightly older adults can do in a school scenario. Volunteers might come in from college and they can often express ideas and values that will not be as well heard when they come from teachers. There is a great deal that can be done if we co-opt the input of those people who are few years further down the line but who are credible witnesses in the school situation. I noticed that on the occasions when I was brought into schools to talk about careers. There was a certain credibility because I was not so far ahead of the pupils in terms of age, although as I get older that window is closing.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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I thank the Minister for being generous and giving of his time. I recently opened a seminar with the Sligo Education Centre on the Minister's behalf on bullying and cyberbullying. It took place after the untimely death of Ciara Pugsley and I would like to acknowledge her father's brave and dignified response and willingness to be part of what must be an extremely difficult debate for him.

At that seminar, the director of the Sligo Education Centre, Mary Hough, talked about how she had encouraged children in a local school to bring in photographs of themselves. She gathered the photographs and put them up on the school gate. The children were most surprised and confused and asked what she was doing. She told them that she was showing the photographs to people; parents and teachers would see them as they drove up to the school. The children were still puzzled and she told them that was what they were doing when posting material online, that they were showing the world what they are doing. She was trying to identify the disconnect children feel. Adults have it too; we all know we should not send an e-mail in haste because it is easy to be disconnected from reality when at a computer. Mary Hough put her finger on something and was then able to relate to the children in an easy way. Immediately they asked to have their photos removed, saying they did not want people to see them. All of a sudden the awkwardness and gaucheness of those teenage years was apparent.

Of course there is a lot of work to be done and this was just a small thing but the education centres may have a role to play. I am speaking for Sligo Education Centre, which has been very keen and positive about engaging with the whole school community. That will emerge in the work of the working group; this is about parents, teachers and pupils. Parents, increasingly as children get older, get left at the school gate. It was all right when they were six or nine or ten years of age to go in and say hello or wave goodbye to the teacher but when they are 13 or 14 it is absolutely not all right, in fact they do not want parents anywhere near the place. Parents begin then to feel less and less connected to their children, who in turn are disconnected from their own lives because of the way they can press buttons. That level of disconnect is something communities must respond to.

I pay particular tribute to the work of Comhairle na nÓg. In Donegal the local branch issued a top ten tips to unwind the mind. In Leitrim it issued a booklet about all the resources available to children and teenagers in the area. County Limerick Comhairle na nÓg ran an anti-bullying week with an anti-bullying awareness night while the Louth branch made a short film called "Behind My Smile" all about stressful situations and how to deal with them. In Waterford, Comhairle na nÓg did work on body image and drug use and invited very well known people, including their local Deputy, Ciara Conway, to talk about mental health. The Westmeath branch issued a DVD highlighting how peer pressure affects young people and the Wicklow branch ran a conference on homophobic bullying. There is a whole body of work children throughout the country, our children, have done. They have gone about it with no money apart from the little bit Comhairle na nÓg has to offer but they have knowledge and passion about the reality of life for them. That must inform the Minister's working group.

The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs came to the showcase of the work they did last Friday in Croke Park. It was wonderful to be there and share their energy and enthusiasm about something that is so close to them. Their friends are dying and they are our children. Somehow we must not lose the body of work that exists there, we must find a way to co-ordinate it. It might not be about money but their inventiveness and creativity is what we need.

Many Senators have spoken in an open and sharing way about their experiences as children, which is not an easy thing to do. We must see in a new age of creativity on this issue. We in the Labour Party had a campaign during the children's rights referendum for children to be seen and heard. They are there and want to talk to us. The very essence of Comhairle na nÓg is to have an impact in life. These children come together to do that and we must not waste what they have done. With the Minister's working group and their enormous efforts, we can make a difference.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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As the proposer of the motion, I thank the Minister for coming into the House and listening to us. I welcome in particular his promise to pass on our deliberations to the working group.

Perhaps we could also forward the transcript of the debate.

I thank the 21 Members who contributed to this debate for the variety of insights into this issue. I was shocked to hear that our Acting Chairman was capable of strong language, as I would never have suspected it. Everybody made a great contribution to the debate and Senator Reilly may note that although the amendment will not be pressed, the Minister noted its topic could be the relevant in a separate debate. I would welcome a Private Members' motion on that issue.

I am glad reference has been made to the great work being done by schools, which we should never forget. I was particularly delighted to hear the Minister mention the unique and special role played by guidance councillors in schools. Mr. Gerry Malone is a guidance counsellor in Dundalk CBS and I have seen his great work. We also have Ms Betty McLoughlin from the Institute of Guidance Councillors of Ireland, and those people have listened carefully to this debate. In discussing suicide and desperation, we must think about the great number of people who have been saved from trauma by guidance counsellors.

The Minister is a people's Minister for Education and Skills. He has illustrated this in the reform of the junior certificate and other initiatives. I am absolutely convinced from listening to the Minister's speech that he is determined to make a significant difference to the quality of life of children by tackling bullying in schools. I thank him for coming before the Seanad today.

Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.