Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on alcohol consumption (resumed), to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 5 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the contribution of each Senator not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be called on to respond not later than 4.50 p.m.; and No. 19, Private Members' business, motion No. 10, to be taken at 5 p.m. and conclude not later than 7 p.m. I remind Senators that, as agreed to in the motion passed by the House on 25 October last, Professor Christopher Pissarides of the London School of Economics will be addressing the Seanad at 1 p.m. tomorrow on the topic of youth unemployment during a recession. I hope that as many Senators as possible will take part in that debate and ask questions of the professor.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will not be opposing the Order of Business. It is important to congratulate President Obama on winning another four years in office. We hope that the work he does during the coming period will be of benefit to Ireland.

Closer to home and much more important, I ask that the Leader make arrangements for the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to come before the House at the earliest possible opportunity in order to discuss the specific issue of home help services. As Senators will be aware, some 600,000 hours have already been removed from the system and there are plans to remove a further 450,000 between now and Christmas.

The Government undertook to do this in a sensitive manner, with assessments of individual cases. However, that is not what is happening. Every Member of the Oireachtas and county councillor in the country, as well as anyone involved in a community organisation, has had representations from people who are genuinely suffering due to cuts that are being implemented in order to save ¤8 million between now and Christmas. In the Taoiseach's own constituency, the Mayo coroner, Dr. Eleanor Fitzgerald, stated that reductions in home help services would lead to an increase in deaths from chronic illness. How many lives are we valuing at ¤8 million? That is the question when considering the extra 15 minutes of home help or the simple half an hour that was taken away from some individuals. That time was to used to help with changing a colostomy bag, help a person to get up out of bed, wash or feed him or her or light the fire. No impact analysis was carried out on these cuts. The suffering throughout this country could not have been intended by any Government to save ¤8 million. In the other House the Taoiseach welcomed a cut to a pension of ¤500,000 which was paid by a bank supported by the State, while we are arguing about saving ¤8 million, which will affect perhaps 450,000 home help hours. Something has to be done. It is a serious crisis that must be dealt with immediately. I do not propose an amendment to the Order of Business but I ask the Leader to make arrangements to have this issue dealt with. Regardless of the intention of the Minister that each individual case be assessed, that is not happening. The level of suffering is in no way equal to ¤8 million in savings. We must prioritise cuts in other areas if we are to save ¤8 million, considering the impact this will have on elderly individuals throughout the country.

On another issue, I refer to a number of newspaper articles about family planning clinics and reports of information being provided which was inaccurate and described by some medical professionals as downright dangerous. Irrespective of one's position on this issue - whether one is pro-life, pro-choice or pro-debate - serious questions have arisen as a result of the investigative reporting by Independent Newspapers. I gather there is to be a HSE review and investigation of this issue. In my view it warrants the Minister's personal attention and the Government should oversee this investigation. Regardless of one's personal, party or moral position on this issue and in view of the fact that medical professionals are saying that dangerous information is being provided and funded by organisations and agencies using taxpayers' money, this must be investigated.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Like Senator MacSharry, I welcome the outcome of the US election. No doubt the result is a great relief to the many supporters of the Democratic Party in Ireland. Studies have shown that very few people in Ireland would have supported Mitt Romney if they had been entitled to vote. It is good to see President Barack Obama re-elected for a further four-year term.

I agree with Senator MacSharry that it would be helpful to have a debate on the issue of home help services in the near future in order to clarify the position. There is no doubt people are very concerned about the reports, and it would be useful to have the Minister come to the House to debate the issue.

On a further health-related issue, I welcome the announcement of the site for the national children's hospital. This deserves a great deal of cross-party support. It is good to see people uniting behind the decision and it is important that a decision has now been made and that the building can proceed. It is good that the site chosen will mean the children's hospital is co-located with an acute hospital and also adjacent to a maternity hospital.

I held the view that the Coombe hospital would have been a suitable location. I am glad to see that the chosen hospital site will be close to the Coombe, a well established maternity hospital, and that it will be adjacent to St. James's Hospital.

I welcome the announcement that the constitutional convention will hold its first meeting on Saturday, 1 December at Dublin Castle and that Mr. Tom Arnold has been appointed chairperson. The convention will have an exciting 12-month term. It is worth noting that this is the first attempt by any government in the history of the State to establish a convention of this nature which will consist of a majority of citizens. It has been given a very tight timeframe in which to report on a range of specific issues. It may also report on other issues that it considers relevant. I look forward to being a member of the convention and to working with the people who have been chosen to participate.

Senator MacSharry referred to newspaper reports on family planning clinics. For a long time there has been much concern about rogue family planning agencies that operate in a directive manner and hold a particular viewpoint. If a review of family planning clinics is carried out then it is important that clinics and centres that call themselves pregnancy advisory or pregnancy counselling services should be reviewed generally by the Minister for Health and the HSE.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I also welcome the re-election of Barack Obama as President of the United States. Of course, for an Independent Senator such as me to send him congratulations from the floor of the Seanad is like The Skibbereen Eagle keeping an eye on the Emperor of Russia many years ago. His election means that we can breathe a sigh of relief this morning with regard to international politics.

I remind the House that the Independent group has tabled a motion for this evening on the trials and challenges of the social welfare appeals system. Its an important issue. We have just returned from a FLAC briefing that was held at 1 p.m. I know that most Senators come across this organisation on a daily basis. The bizarre amendment proposed by the Government side is long. It is longer than Finnegans Wake and probably less understood. I ask the Leader to adopt the spirit of the motion tabled by the Independents, which, similarly to our previous motions, seeks transparency and reform. I ask him not to provide Senators with three pages of a press release and waffle. An amendment should be useful and answer the questions contained in the motion.

There has been a lot of debate following Gabriel Byrne's comments on The Gathering and the relationship between the Government and the Diaspora. He wished The Gathering well, as I do, and I support it. More importantly, he highlighted, although this was not picked up, the lack of strategic thinking at Government level. We should look at what has happened to the National Library of Ireland, the National Museum of Ireland and Culture Ireland. The Labour Party has undermined the National Cultural Institutions Act 1997, as presented to the House in 1997 by the current President, Michael D. Higgins.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is his party.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When did that happen?

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was announced last week by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When did that happen?

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Labour Party now proposes an amendment to the 1997 Act to abolish the boards of the National Museum of Ireland and the National Library of Ireland.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is making that up.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All done under the eyes of the Government. It is a disgrace.

A Senator:

Ridding us of quangos.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I shall give one clear example of a lack of joined-up thinking. I ask the Leader to set aside time for a debate attended by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, and the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan. Both have held forums and prepared proposals and reports on philanthropy in Ireland. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has introduced some welcome new initiatives, while the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government has published the report of the forum on philanthropy chaired by Mr. Frank Flannery. Two Departments have issued reports on philanthropy. I ask the Leader to invite the Ministers to attend the debate together in order to achieve more joined-up thinking on raising private moneys in the charity and arts sectors.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the decision by the generic drug manufacturer Teva Pharmaceuticals to reduce the cost of drugs on the market by over 23%. By contrast, the branded producers have agreed to a reduction of only 7%. The Minister for Health has held negotiations to reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

It is the first step but there are several others we need to take in this area to ensure we can bring down the cost of health care.

I also welcome yesterday?s announcement by the Minister for Health about the location of the new national children?s hospital at St. James?s Hospital. It will be a trilocation with the Coombe hospital close to the site too. It is time we all worked together and we must have consultation at local community level, as well as with all of the stakeholders, at an early stage to fast-track this proposal and get on with the planning, development, building and opening of this new facility. We need it for the children. The sooner we can get over all the hurdles in front of us, the better for everyone. I welcome the Minister?s decision. I understand we will have a debate on it next week, which I welcome. It is time, however, that we all worked together, from the medical profession and the Department of Health to the local authority and those involved in planning, to deliver this project at the earliest possible date.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I raise a matter of major public interest, which has already been raised by Senator MacSharry: the recent exposé by Gemma O'Doherty in the Irish Independent which uncovered appalling malpractice in the State-funded crisis pregnancy counselling agencies and, in particular, the Irish Family Planning Association. I fear that Senator Bacik may be attempting to minimise the matter by not recognising that what is at issue is the endangering of women?s lives by State-funded agencies. Counsellors in these agencies have been shown to have acted illegally and with gross disregard for the safety of women in their care. In some cases, as has been pointed out, the advice given was dangerous to women?s lives.

The HSE has responded that it will conduct an investigation into the matter. This raises further questions, however, since the HSE is implicated in the malpractice, in some cases, and in the illegal activities.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If there were illegal activities, these should be reported to the Garda.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Mullen to continue, without interruption.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand the activity in question has been reported to the Garda.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Then there is an investigation ongoing.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is also the complicating fact that the newly appointed head of the HSE, Tony O?Brien, is a former chief executive of the IFPA.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A Leas-Chathaoirligh, is it proper to impugn the reputation of people named in the House without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Mullen, bí cúramach.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Beidh mé an-cúramach.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Norris, that was an inappropriate interruption.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I absolutely reject that and ask you to withdraw it immediately. It was perfectly appropriate. A gentleman was named and his reputation was impugned. If you cannot see that this was the point at which you should have intervened, I am very glad that I did. I will not withdraw it.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have resumed my seat.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator's interruptions are delaying proceedings.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I hope I will not be prevented from making my point but I certainly do not intend to impugn anyone?s reputation.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Mullen has less than a minute left.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I said it was a complicating factor. It is inappropriate that the Minister has not yet commented on this scandal as it is a matter of the utmost public interest and urgency. Is it safe practice for counsellors to give information about how to illegally smuggle an abortion pill into Ireland and take it without medical supervision? Is it legal for counsellors to tell women that they should falsify their medical histories to claim they had a miscarriage in the event of post-abortion complications, given that this could endanger their lives, according to someone no less than the master of the Rotunda Hospital? Is it legal for Irish counselling services to enter into arrangements with foreign abortion clinics which offer reduced rates to Irish women if they received counselling in Ireland, given the requirements of the Regulation of Information (Services Outside the State For Termination of Pregnancies) Act 1995? Why does the IFPA continue to promote an abortion clinic in Calthorpe in Birmingham which is the subject of police-----

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Once again the Senator is impugning reputations, this time of a particular organisation. It is not appropriate.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is this an appropriate intervention?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am trying to be fair. I have asked Senator Mullen to conclude. I do not want anyone impugned here but the interruptions are not helpful either.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Healy Eames should speak with her boss.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Mullen should conclude.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will conclude by saying that I am concerned that certain people do not appear to want the truth to be properly dealt with. We owe a debt of gratitude to Gemma O'Doherty, to the Irish Independent and to the women who carried out this investigation, who have done the State some service. I hope we can have the Minister in the House to make an overdue statement and I hope the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will see fit to ask the most probing of questions.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator has made his point.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I hope it will look at the transcripts, interview the people who carried out the investigation and ask the hard questions of the HSE and the agencies involved. I do not believe Senator Bacik, Senator Norris or anyone else here should feel threatened by that.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We do not.

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

At the weekend, everyone woke up to newspaper headlines to the effect that the Minister for Finance cannot tamper with bankers' pay or pensions. These same bankers are benefiting from taxpayers' money which is propping up the banks, but it has also been propping up their individual pensions. If it is the case that the Minister is unable to deal with that issue, he should take time out to read Michael Murray's article in The Sunday Business Post in which he makes a recommendation that we should put a surtax of between 70% and 80% on any of these pensions in excess of ¤150,000. This is very important. I am unsure whether anyone listened to the radio yesterday, but this was followed by David Duffy saying that he would be writing to all of these people to ask them to give up some of their pensions voluntarily. However, it could take between four and five weeks before he will know the answer, by which time the budget will have come and gone.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Senator looking for a debate on this matter?

John Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a question for the Leader. If the Minister's hands are tied, could Members of this House introduce legislation to give him the power to deal with the issue? It is as simple as that. Can we generate legislation to regulate the pensions and pay of these senior bankers?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, we can.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I also wish to support the call for the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to come before the House to discuss the composition of new hospital groupings throughout the country. The Leader will be aware of a serious situation that has emerged in the south east whereby a recommendation may be made by the expert group headed up by Professor Higgins to dismantle the regional hospital structure in the south east and potentially downgrade the regional hospital based in Waterford. If one listens to the professionals who work at the hospital and throughout the region, including consultants, general practitioners and staff at all levels, it is clear they are very concerned about what is happening. If it goes ahead, they would see it as a downgrade of the hospital. The clinical director of Waterford Regional Hospital is on record as saying that if this goes ahead, cancer services, neurological services and cardiology services will be decimated. We know that lives will be lost and jobs will be lost. I listened to the Leader of the House on local radio yesterday. He stated that he would consider his position as Leader of the House if this went ahead. That is an indication of how seriously local politicians in the south east need to take this issue.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Rightly so.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I take the opportunity to appeal to Senators from all parties throughout the south east to ensure we work together on this issue and that we do not allow this to go ahead. We must ensure we do not see another hospital downgraded, or people who live in Waterford having to travel to Cork while people who live in Wexford and Kilkenny have to travel to Dublin. We must ensure they do not have to take the long road for treatment when we have these essential and critical services in the region already. It is important for the Leader to make a statement in the House about what is happening and that the Minister for Health comes in to answer serious questions that we will put collectively about the future of the regional hospital in the south east.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support the call for an independent investigation into what exactly is going on in family planning clinics throughout the country. The issue is that we do not know what is going on. If there is malpractice or if women's lives are being put at risk, we need to know. The Leader might advance this to see what exactly can be done and what will be done by the Government on this issue.

I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to the House in advance of the budget for two specific reasons. The first has been referred to by Senator John Kelly. The public has lost trust in the banks. From the goodness of our hearts, as a nation, we recapitalised the banks. We have given bailouts in order that they could help families in difficulty with mortgages.

The trust has gone. The House needs to propose solutions to the Minister to deal with those banks which use bailout funds to fund exorbitant pensions. It is obscene and immoral to pay a pension of more than ¤500,000 at a time when many people are hurting. This issue affects those who are paying unsustainable sums of money to cover their mortgages, in some cases more than 35% of their net income. In the course of campaigning on the children's rights referendum, I have met families who are paying as much of 70% of net income. That is unsustainable in the long run. These families are experiencing difficulties in paying their electricity bills and putting food on the table because they are doing all they can to repay their mortgages. Given that they have lost trust in the banks, they need some relief from the State through, for example, mortgage interest relief because they are the key to the domestic economy. Any money they free up from mortgage repayments will be spent domestically, thereby helping the economy to recover. I would be grateful, therefore, if the Leader could arrange a debate with the Minister for Finance at the earliest opportunity.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is a particularly happy day for the American people. I wish President Obama and his lovely wife, Michelle, well. It was a great achievement to become the 44th President of the United States of America. He received tremendous support from the Irish Diaspora and family members in America supported him warmly because he was an excellent President. This morning he made an inspirational acceptance speech in which he welcomed immigrants from all over the world to the land of the free and the brave. There are 40 million Irish-Americans and the Irish helped to build America.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He did not say that at all.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This might be more appropriate to a debate in Congress. Is the Deputy calling for a debate on the issue?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Government has its way, this will be our last opportunity to welcome the election of an American President. We are on death row. It is significant, therefore, that the Seanad is able to congratulate President Obama. I acknowledge that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade will press the issue of the undocumented Irish. The Taoiseach who will be President of Europe from 1 January will be in a unique position to progress this agenda. Many Members of this House have valiantly worked on the issue and we should renew our efforts.

I commend my colleague, Senator Mary White, for ensuring proper signposts will be erected on the M7. As a Member of this House, she led a campaign to have erected the signs to Moneygall, with the National Roads Authority and Fáilte Ireland.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is out of time.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To support The Gathering next year we should work with Henry Healy to extend a further céad míle fáilte to President Obama and ask him to return to his roots in Ireland in order that we can have a real gathering in Moneygall.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support my colleagues' call for an investigation into the advice dispensed to women with crisis pregnancies. I was concerned to learn that my own town of Ballinasloe had been mentioned as one of the places in which this dangerous or illegal information was being dispensed.

It certainly warrants further investigation at the highest level, particularly as the HSE is providing the venues or funding sources for these advice centres.

In the light of the misappropriation of ¤4 million of Irish aid in Uganda, I would like the Minister of State with responsibility for overseas assistance to come to the House at an appropriate time for a discussion on how Irish aid is dispensed. I have every confidence that Irish Aid is doing a good job. It has put checks and balances in place to ensure money is spent properly. I compliment the Tánaiste on his swift movement in this issue. He has ensured the ¤4 million in question will be returned to the Government and that the people in Uganda who misappropriated it will be brought to justice. My main concern is that as a result of what has happened in Uganda, Irish people will be less likely to support worthy causes overseas and less supportive than they have been of what Irish Aid is doing. It would be a real travesty if the misappropriation that has happened in Uganda were to have a serious impact on the most deprived and unfortunate people on this planet. It is very important that the Minister of State come to the House to clarify the matter and clear up any misunderstanding there might be among the general public. We need to ensure there is support for Irish Aid and those working overseas to help and assist the vulnerable and deprived people in the world. Although what has happened in Uganda is unfortunate, at least the issue has been well handled. Having listened to local radio and read comments on social media, I am worried that Irish people are less likely to support good causes in the future. In that context, it would be no harm-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator is well over time.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----to put the remuneration being paid to the heads of some charitable organisations on the agenda for discussion also. We need to be open and transparent about that matter of concern also.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator's point has been well made.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would like to invite the Minister for Finance to the House for two reasons. We have all listened to roaring and bawling about the director of the Bank of Ireland, Mr. Richie Boucher. I know I am not allowed to say his name. He is the director and his name is in the public domain. With all of the other bailed out banking boys who have brought us to our knees, he appeared before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform last week. It is hilarious that he spoke about the Bank of Ireland as a commercial enterprise. How could it possibly be a commercial enterprise, given that the people have put ¤4 billion into it? It is absolutely hilarious. He treated the members of the finance committee of these Houses as if they were boys at a corner. It was a masterful performance, on which I congratulate him. We should really take a leaf out of his book. I have listened to debates in the Upper and Lower Houses about bankers, insurance salesmen, directors and guys in other positions who are making fortunes from their revolting pensions.

I would like to ask the Minister for Finance a few questions when he comes here. We are reminded every day about a tycoon who is now in Mountjoy Prison for contempt of court, having put assets beyond the reach of the banks. The country's pillar banks - Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland - are putting people's lives, hopes, dreams and assets beyond their reach. That is what they are doing and we are wasting our time here by bawling at them, as it is like throwing snowballs at haystacks. What should we do? I have a solution for the Minister. If legislators - Senators and Deputies - really want to challenge the behaviour of the banks, we have to play them at their own game. How do we do this? We should follow our own money out of the banks. We should take our savings and all of our money out and put them in another bank, the credit union or the post office. We should pay our bills from another vantage point, as if we keep doing what we are doing, we will continue to be treated by the banks as if we were chattels.

Like another Senator who spoke, I would like the Minister to explain how, having worked for 30 years on a contract, my pension and tax expectations were changed overnight at the stroke of a pen. It was called the universal social charge.

This happened to every other member of our society but it did not happen to the bankers. I want the Minister for Finance to come to the House and explain the details to me. Then I will know I am sitting in the Upper House of the Parliament, not at a corner.

John Whelan (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I could not agree more with Senators O'Donnell and Kelly. This is the most pressing and most vexed issue throughout the country. The people are looking on in awe, flabbergasted at the manner in which the bankers in this country are riding the public bareback while the Government looks on, saying its hands are tied, it is helpless and there is nothing it can do. That is not true. If there was a political will a way would be found to deal with this. Everybody knows that is the reality. I can offer a precedent. Mr. Richie Boucher might think he is working in a commercial entity. He might think he is not a socialist. However, as he has ¤4 billion invested in socialism, he is into socialism in a big way, whether he knows it.

I have received letters from a family who have been issued with repossession threats from Mr. Boucher's Bank of Ireland because of a lack of ¤5,000 in alleged arrears. It is absurd. The Minister for Finance should come before the House and explain why nothing can be done. A precedent was set in 1985 when the then Minister, Dessie O'Malley, faced down his own Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, and introduced emergency legislation to put the PMPA group of companies, including a building society and a provident society, into administration overnight. Of course it can be done. We should not be writing to the bankers, asking them to hand back a few bob. We should take them to heel. The taxpayers of this country have ownership of these banks; so has the Government but it certainly is not in control. The Government, the Cabinet, this Seanad and all public officials are a laughing stock as long as we continue to allow the bankers of this country to thumb their nose at us. Richie Boucher did everything at the finance committee last week except give it the two fingers.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I echo the Leader's sentiments about the talk to be given in the House tomorrow by Professor Christopher Pissarides. He will be the first Nobel laureate to address the House since W. B. Yeats. He is from the small island of Cyprus and has obviously acquired sufficient standing in his subject to be awarded the Nobel Prize. He will talk about youth employment and afterwards the young people of the Historical Society at TCD will award him the society's gold medal. That society was founded by Edmund Burke, considered one of the great civil rights activists by both Ireland and the United States.

Yesterday the Northern Ireland Assembly voted by 51 to 29 to extend the voting age to 16 years of age. All parties - with the exception of the DUP - supported the motion which was in the name of Sinn Féin and the Green Party. The case made was that at 18 young people have left home to go either to work or to higher education and consequently they drop out of the system for a number of years. It would be much better to have them enrolled at the age of 16. After what will undoubtedly be her success next Saturday, perhaps the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, might come to the House to discuss the issue of the voting age. She has been a very successful Minister and she might wish to extend the right to vote to 16 year olds who have long been worthy of that right, given the amount of civics knowledge they have which would make them superb voters and citizens. We should seriously consider following the example set at Stormont yesterday.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the sentiments expressed about the bankers. I have spoken in the House on a number of occasions about bringing the banks to book and have put this question. When the Minister attends the House, he may be able to explain to us what exactly a public interest director of a bank does. I am confused. I do not have a clue what these public interest directors do. They certainly are not acting in the interests of the public and seem to be acting in the interest of the bank. There is a clear distinction. Surely there is a way, either through the budget or through taxation, whereby some kind of pension levy could be introduced on pensions in excess of ¤150,000. Given that banks have already received billions of euro of taxpayers' money, surely there is some way to do this.

I accept that nothing can be done retrospectively. In the context of what these people will be earning in the future, however, we have a responsibility to explore the possibility of introducing a levy.

I wish to commend The Gathering, to which reference has been made. The comments made by Gabriel Byrne were regrettable. Mr. Byrne is a person for whom I have respect. It is regrettable that two or three sentences uttered during a longer interview made the headlines. That is a pity, particularly as the number of events certified as part of The Gathering has exceeded 1,000. This is a remarkable achievement and the events in question will bring people back to the country in 2013. I encourage every parish, community and sporting organisation - it should be noted that there are hundreds of golf clubs throughout the country which have overseas members - to engage with The Gathering. The latter is not designed to shake down those who will visit the country next year. Its purpose is, rather, to actively engage with people who will assist us in extricating ourselves from our current difficulties.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was very unfortunate that a person of the stature of Gabriel Byrne - we all have affection for him and are delighted that he has done so well in his profession - made such comments. The previous Government appointed him to serve as a cultural ambassador, which he did for a number of years. I was disappointed by Mr. Byrne's comments regarding The Gathering. I was even more disappointed by his observation to the effect that the bridge between Ireland and its diaspora has been broken. Those of us who are fortunate enough to travel abroad realise that this is not true. There are many organisations, etc., in this country that have direct contact with groups abroad. They work very closely with those groups. If one speaks to members of the Irish community abroad, one realises that there is a great grá for the homeland. There are more than 70 million of Irish extraction across the globe. That is a huge number. Even if we try to exploit - I use that word in the best sense - the economic value of the Diaspora, its members would obtain great value for money in return. We should wish The Gathering well because a great deal of consideration has been given to what is planned. The main strength of The Gathering is that it will be decentralised in nature.

Where malpractice, particularly if it is supported by taxpayers' money, occurs, it must be of concern to every person on this island, especially those of us who are fortunate and privileged enough to be Members of the Oireachtas. It does not matter whether such malpractice occurs in a bank, an industry or a family planning clinic. The extra danger in the latter case is that lives could also be put at risk. That matter must be taken into consideration. I would expect every Senator to laud the work carried out by the relevant investigative journalist and to thank the newspaper involved for publishing the findings. I am somewhat concerned that the type of inquiry which is being considered will be low profile and internal. Much more is required and an independent inquiry should be established. I applaud Senator Mullen for outlining the position in respect of this matter in such a dispassionate manner. The Senator did not try to score points. He tried to act as any of the rest of us would have acted if a completely different issue were being raised in the Chamber. The general public and the newspaper in question are going to monitor what will be our reaction to the findings that will eventually emerge in respect of the malpractice to which I refer.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to have the opportunity to welcome the result of the election in the United States. It was a great achievement for President Obama to gain re-election in such difficult circumstances. I know we all wish him the best for the next four years. I trust that this will not be the final occasion on which the Seanad will be in a position to welcome the election or re-election of an American President.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Wishful thinking.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

One of the best examples of the Seanad in practice was the Private Members' debate on the national dementia plan held just prior to half term. I wish to raise again the matter of mental health. In October, the Irish Association of Suicidology referred specifically to the lack of regulation for those people offering counselling to those with depression or in need of assistance. There is no regulation. I refer to the advertisement that says it is good to talk. I agree it is good to talk, either, first, if one can afford it; second, if one is already in the care of a doctor; third, if one is certain the person to whom one speaks is indeed qualified and regulated and has done the correct training. Those people who find themselves in need of such talk and such assistance very often take a long time to get to that point and when they do, they may find a person offering assistance who is not qualified to do so. I ask the Leader to urge the Minister concerned to ensure that this is taken very seriously in any review of the mental health strategy and legislation. There is no financial support for people who may not have a doctor or a consultant to assist them but if they seek assistance from a counsellor they are unable to get any funding for that expense. There is often a long queue for such assistance for those with a medical card. This is a matter which escapes when we talk about mental health and in this House we have done much talking about mental health and suicide and the growing concerns in this area. This is a very practical matter and perhaps is a subject we could urge the Minister to examine immediately.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join colleagues in congratulating President Obama. Most of us have aunts and uncles and family members who had to travel to America down the years. I join in inviting President Obama and all our relations in America to come back for The Gathering next year. It would be great to see all our friends and family returning.

I wish to talk about the problem of ash tree dieback which was identified in County Leitrim ten or 12 days ago. I congratulate the Department for moving so quickly to destroy all those plants and in five or six other locations to ensure this disease would not spread. I call on the Minister of State, Deputy McEntee, to come to the House to discuss the problem in order that people are made aware of it. Many acres of ash and other broadleaf trees have been planted in recent times and we may not have to import any ash to manufacture hurleys in the future. We must make people aware that this disease could wipe out the native ash trees.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They were trying to stop Kilkenny hurling.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A number of colleagues have raised the very important matter of the financial condition in this country. I was very happy to follow the invigorating speech by Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell and her suggestion that we should follow the money trail. We can follow it even further than she suggested. We can follow it to where it ended up, in the French and German banks. I say this because this is the first meeting of this House since the visit of Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble, the German Finance Minister. I was astonished to hear him say that he wished to compliment Ireland on how well we had done and how useful we were in order that we could be pointed at internationally as an example of the success of the plan. This is reminiscent of the Famine which was a direct result of the ruthless application of a rigid financial system and theory from the centre and which led to disaster. It had no concern for the welfare of the people. I think one would need to be Jonathan Swift to do justice to the ironies implicit in the fact that we are being complimented on how well we are doing, in a week which saw evictions in Ireland and the establishment of the second soup kitchen in Ireland, in Athlone, the first being in Galway.

I call on Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble to wake up and smell the soup. The odour should be in his nostrils from Greece to the Atlantic coast of Ireland. If he thinks that it is a success then I do not know what language he was speaking because it might have been German but it certainly was not sense.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support Senator Comiskey's comments on the danger to ash trees in Ireland. Last September I attended an event in Ballinasloe when a local councillor presented a hurley to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government. I believe that it led to Kilkenny winning the All-Ireland but that is a story for another day. The threat to the ash tree is serious.

In 1998 the old sanatorium in Waterford was demolished and a new hospital was built in its place which is now known as the Waterford Regional Hospital. It took almost ten years to complete the project at a cost of several hundred million euro. In the past two weeks a leaked document has come to prominence which suggests that Waterford Regional Hospital should be downgraded from level 4 to level 3. All political parties and politicians in the south east are concerned about the matter. The hospital serves 500,000 people, provides a broad range of services and is one of the eight centres of excellence for cancer here. As it works extremely well and is not broken, I do not see a reason to fix it. I thank the Leader for his assistance on the matter in the past week. I appreciate his help and the advice that he gave. I also appreciate the negotiations and lobbying that he has engaged in which are quite obvious to anybody following the matter.

I ask the Leader to ask the Minister to make a statement on the matter and to provide clarification for the people of the south east. The hospital serves Wexford, Kilkenny, Tipperary and Waterford. Why has the downgrade been proposed? We need an answer. A downgrade would not benefit the welfare of patients or their care. Is it proposed for the betterment of vested interests? I want the Leader to ask the Minister that question. I support the comments made by the previous speaker on the matter. I hope that it can be dealt with in a speedy fashion in order that we can kill, at an early stage, the idiotic suggestion to downgrade a hospital which provides a perfect and brilliant service in the south east.

Eamonn Coghlan (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yesterday, 6 November, was a great day for the children of Ireland with the announcement of a new paediatric hospital. Let us hope that all of the various parties concerned, ranging between the medical industry, the academic industry and politicians here, come together to expedite the construction of the hospital.

The weekend before last was a very sad day for children. During the first weekend of our recess a young schoolchild in Donegal took her own life. A national consultation of over 300 primary schools here was carried out. It led the Ombudsman for Children to make a recommendation that schools take a more affirmative action to prevent cyberbullying.

Cyber bullying is a big issue, not just for children. It is a big issue for all of us who are prepared to log on to the social media network and read the desperate messages that have been posted. It is always the schools that are called upon to act. They must teach children about physical fitness, obesity and now they must teach them about the dangers of social media. Unfortunately, there is not much that teachers can do. Teachers are afraid to do anything because most of the time they are afraid of their students.

Bullying is an absolute nightmare for its victims. An online attack should be treated somewhat as a physical assault. Parents have the responsibility to monitor their children?s online activity. Further steps need to be taken to hold parents responsible, legally, morally and financially, for their child?s actions and words online. It is getting out of control and I call for a serious debate in the Seanad with the Minister for Justice and Equality to see what we can do to tackle cyberbullying and prevent more young people from taking their lives as a result.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I endorse all of what Senator Eamonn Coghlan said on bullying. I commend the many Members who have raised this issue for several months. I also agree with Senators MacSharry, Ó Murchú and Mullen on the dangerous and illegal activities carried out by some family planning clinics in this State. As Senator Ó Murchú stated, it is malpractice and, as Senators MacSharry and Mullen said, dangerous. The onus is on us to make laws and ensure they are upheld. I condemn in the strongest possible manner the activities carried out by these family planning clinics. I commend the Irish Independent and its investigative journalist for carrying this story.

Will the Leader invite the Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter, to the House to discuss the future of the Reserve Defence Force? A strong rumour is circulating that he intends to disband this worthy and voluntary part of our Defence Forces. I want the Minister to outline to the House his plans for the future of this volunteer force and state clearly it is the Government?s intention to keep it active. We have a farcical situation where the Army barracks in Cavan was closed at the end of last March and handed over to the local vocational education committee at the beginning of September, which I welcome. Now, the Minister for Defence has told the Reserve Defence Force in Cavan that it should write to the VEC to see if it can accommodate it. This is ridiculous and farcical. Will the Leader invite the Minister to the House as a matter of urgency to debate this issue?

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On the matter raised by Senator Mullen, one of the strengths of this House is that it represents a broad perspective in society. The matters he raised are matters of public health. I support the calls for a debate in this House on women?s health in particular. The issues the Senator raised specifically relate to women?s health. I am aware from my legal practice that certain clients I acted for would have AIDS or genetic testing done in Northern Ireland rather than in the Republic in order that they would not have to make a disclosure in matters of insurance in the Republic. Even without matters detrimental to women?s health being involved, the reality is that we have a situation, not to put too fine a point on it, where we are dealing with certain aspects of women?s health with an Irish solution to an Irish problem. Certain matters go on in this country because we are not open and transparent around matters of women?s health. I agree there should be a debate in this House on women?s health.

Yesterday?s announcement about the location of the national children?s hospital is welcome.

I realise not everyone in the country is happy about it. There are people who supported the Mater bid and the Coombe bid and so forth, but it is a momentous day. I am reminded of the fact that in 2007 we built almost 98,000 units of housing in the country and many of them are now in ghost estates but we have not built one public hospital in 20 years.

Certain matters were raised by other Senators relating to the children's rights referendum. It is easy to forget this in light of the victory of Barack Obama and perhaps another victory that bears mention, namely, the decision by the people of Maryland in a popular vote to approve same-sex marriages. This is the first time that a state in the United States has voted for that civil right through a popular vote as opposed to the public Legislature. We face a vote this Saturday relating to the children of Ireland. It is important that the message goes forward from this House that it is not enough to get this over the line. There needs to be an overwhelming popular vote to show the children of Ireland that they matter. We should not be complacent about the result.

Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the comments of the previous speakers in respect of the referendum on Saturday and the need to send a positive message concerning the children of Ireland. I also agree with what Senator Eamonn Coghlan said concerning the final announcement of the national children's hospital. That too was a good day for Irish children. My question runs along the lines of those of my colleagues earlier and it relates to children not yet born. I wish to pose some questions in this regard. Will the Leader advert to the state of national outcry or outrage if pro-life groups in the country were alleged to be giving possible life-threatening information to Irish women? What would the situation be in the Irish media if pro-life groups were alleged to be offering illegal information to Irish women? What would the response be in the House and in the media in general if pro-life groups were instructing Irish women to falsify their medical records? Rightly, there would be a national outcry. I am disturbed at the lack of media response to the recent allegations about possible illegal activities by the Irish Family Planning Association and other family planning clinics. It is important.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Once again the Senator is referring to a specific organisation. To be fair, other Senators have been careful about making a general comment. The newspaper reports concern allegations in general.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator's interjection is unwarranted. By and large, Senator Bradford is a very responsible Member.

Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach but I respect the Senator's right to intervene. I hope she is equally concerned. I am sure she is as concerned as I am about the outrageous allegations we have read about. I want to have the Minister in the House at the earliest possible stage to give an initial response but I hope we will support the call for a full inquiry. Frankly, I am not interested in the HSE being the investigator. I want to see the HSE investigated. I want the HSE brought before the Oireachtas committee. I want the Irish Family Planning Association and other clinics before the Oireachtas committee to answer questions. I want the members of that committee to listen to the transcripts and to view the available evidence because we cannot run away from this possible national scandal. If the boot were on the other foot, to use that phrase, there would be a much greater public and media outcry.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support Senator Mullen and all the others Senators, including Senator Bradford, with regard to their call for the Minister to come to the House, but I am unsure whether it is the Minister for Health we want. I believe it should be the Minister for Justice and Equality. If an activity is illegal, either we make it legal or we obey it. It seems that on this occasion if a State-sponsored and State-funded body is accused of breaking the law, we should have an investigation and the Minister for Justice and Equality should come here and either explain why or whether action is being taken.

There is a need for a debate on tourism, especially with regard to the effort to have The Gathering next year.

I fully support The Gathering because it is a wonderful tourist concept. I was disturbed to hear someone I always regarded with high esteem criticise The Gathering and, in a way, damage it. Instead of showing respect for the Taoiseach he referred to him solely by his surname. It would be worthwhile to debate these activities in the Seanad, although not before we debate the matter raised by Senator Mullen. This House has a responsibility to ask hard questions of the Minister for Health regarding activities that appear to be illegal.

It was announced today that Tea Time Express, a company that has been selling products since 1938, will close next month. That is a shame. The company was affected by Government decisions. Every time we make it more difficult for small companies to survive we make it almost impossible for other companies to create jobs. I refer in particular to the threat that hangs over all companies due to the proposal by the Minister for Social Protection to introduce legislation requiring employers to pay for sick leave. That will be a tax on employment and will damage companies. I would like to see a full debate on that issue.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the announcement that Nextag will create 125 jobs in Drogheda. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation is sometimes criticised in this House, but he is doing a great job with the IDA. Nextag has already started to recruit locally for these jobs. Often when American or other multinational companies establish operations here they have to source workers from abroad, but these jobs are aimed at locals. Nextag is the largest independent price comparison company in the world. I understand the Minister will be in the Seanad in the near future.

I do not want to get embroiled in conflict but I was disappointed to read the report in the Irish Independent about the advice given in certain clinics. A woman was told by a Dundalk clinic that medical practitioners would not be able to determine whether she had had an abortion and was advised to report that she had had a miscarriage. The people who give this type of advice should be told to act according to the legislation. It is not good for the organisation concerned that such reports are published. I recognise that the people who present to these clinics are traumatised and that the counselling is difficult, but the legislation should be obeyed. The Minister needs to address this issue in the House.

John Gilroy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support the call by Senator Kelly for the Minister for Finance to examine all possible ways of dealing with the scandalous issue of pensions in the banks and other areas where public money is spent. The frustration felt by a considerable number of people has been neatly summed up in the contributions from Senators O'Donnell and Whelan.

When I was watching one of the American network channels the other evening, I saw the economist and chat show presenter Max Keiser holding up the front page of last weekend's Sunday Independent. He ridiculed the Minister on an American network for claiming to be powerless to do anything about these pensions. I wondered how the founder of the Labour Party, James Connolly, would have reacted if it was suggested to him when he was leading the Irish Citizen Army down to the GPO on the morning of Easter Monday 1916 that he was powerless to do anything about an issue like this. What would we be looking at now if that attitude had been accepted by James Connolly or by Michael Collins, who is an icon of the Minister's party? We have been presented with the idea that a constitutional impediment is protecting the property rights of those receiving these pensions, but of course there are many other things we can do. For example, Senator Kelly has suggested that we introduce a surcharge or tax on these pensions.

This is one of the most pressing issues we face. We are at a critical period in our history. There is a grave danger that a great number of Irish citizens will disconnect from the State. Perhaps we saw the beginnings of this in the response to the collection of the property charge, or in the reaction of many people last week to the imprisonment of Seán Quinn. They can be seen as an indication of people's perception of the legitimacy of the State. I do not think we help ourselves, as a Government, when we say we are powerless to take action in the face of this grave social injustice. I am calling on the Leader to facilitate the request that has been made by Senator Kelly. I would like him to bring the Minister for Finance to this Chamber to shed further light on his comments of last week.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are over the time limit. As no vote is being proposed, I will try to facilitate the remaining four Senators who are offering. Just one of the Senators who have contributed to the Order of Business today has stayed within the time limit. Senators should be conscious of the efforts of the Chair to observe the time limit. I call Senator Mooney.

Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He can be the second Senator to stay within the time limit.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The clock is ticking.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The clock has not started yet. I would like to join Senators on all sides of the House, particularly my party's acting leader in this House, Senator MacSharry, in remarking on the independent investigation into practices that have been carried out by people who would be the first to admonish those who might be seen to be breaking the law if they did not agree with their particular point of view. It is important that Senators across the House have contributed on this issue. I am not saying there has been a cross-party contribution. I add my voice to what has been said so far. I cannot help thinking that this is yet another example of a significant group of people in this country deciding to act outside the law, in order to pursue their own ideological commitments, when they find that the law is not exactly as they would like it.

This is a complex issue. I agree with Senator Jim D'Arcy that any woman who is experiencing a crisis pregnancy needs to receive the greatest sympathy and understanding. This is not about those individuals, however. This is about people in authority who receive State funding. They have decided to break the law to advance their own particular opinions surreptitiously. Senator Bradford is absolutely right. The questions he has asked are relevant. Quite frankly, I am not sure the HSE is the best group to be investigating anything.

The Minister for Health or the Minister for Justice and Equality should come to this House to respond to this piece of investigative journalism, for which I applaud the Sunday Independent. As others have said, it is rather surprising that other media outlets have not picked up on this report. I suggest they have not done so because it has come from a particular constituency. If those who are protecting and promoting life were involved, I assure the House that thundering editorials in certain newspapers in this country would admonish people for holding the point of view they have. I fully agree with a view that has been expressed on all sides of this sensitive and complex debate, which is that the law, as it currently stands, is unsustainable.

It is hard to believe that as a consequence of the X case there might be a situation where up-to-term abortions were performed in this country. That has to be addressed. I wished to contribute that point of view and also to emphasise that it is important that either the Minister for Health or the Minister for Justice and Equality attends the House to address this matter and respond to what has been said both in the House today and to the exposé by investigative journalists in the Irish Independent.

Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I second the point made by Senator Michael Mullins about the fraud which was discovered in Uganda and ask that the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade should come to the House and discuss that matter. We give ¤600 million in foreign aid. On that day I would like to question the Minister and ask Senators to join me in so doing about what checks, procedures and auditing systems are in place.

Returning to Ireland, the Government gives ¤4 billion to the charity sector. There is no charity regulator in place which means there are no checks and balances. I certainly am not picking on foreign aid but if we want to widen this we must know how our money is being spent.

I am just a parrot today, in my two minutes. I second Senator Feargal Quinn's proposal. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, will be in the House next Tuesday. I implore Senators to take an interest. I might get together with Senator Quinn to send Members a quick memo about the proposals on sick pay, with which we will put many Irish businesses out of business. There is a little bit of kite-flying going on, to the effect that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, is thinking of pushing her ideas on sick pay onto the private sector. We must not let that happen.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise. Earlier some 18 hands were raised. I am trying to be as fair as I can. There are two further speakers.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support Senator Eamonn Coghlan's call for a debate on cyber bullying. Senator Jim D'Arcy is about to table a related motion. It is a very serious issue. All our sympathies go to the family in Donegal in the most recent instance.

I condemn the murder on the M1 of the prison officer, David Black. This was alleged to have been the work of republican dissidents. That is an insult to the word "republican". Murderers killed that man. They were driving a Dublin-registered car. As a member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Association, I am absolutely disgusted that something like that could happen on the M1 to a young man of 54, going about his daily business. That is an important issue.

An issue was raised in the Dáil on 5 July in regard to having reciprocal driving licences with Canada. A great number of our young people are obliged to go abroad through no choice of their own because of the lack of jobs. Many are going to Canada and we must be seen to ensure that we make this as easy as possible for them. The state of Saskatchewan has signed a reciprocal agreement with Ireland on driving licences. What is the position? If there is a big problem the Government should make a statement about it. If Saskatchewan can do this, giving a five-year, full class 5 driving licence, I wonder what the problem is. There is the issue of driving on different sides of the road but there are ways to do things. We should help the young people who have to go abroad. It is expensive anyway, and insurance is very expensive in Canada if one does not have a full driving licence - just as it is here. There should be a statement on this issue and I call on the Minister to make one.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I support the call for the Minister of Health to come to the House in response to the Higgins report. However, I have an open mind on this because I believe there must be a reconfiguration of hospitals in the State for the 21st century. We have now built a motorway system that can move people and traffic around the country very quickly. The people who perhaps are worst placed to take a cold objective view are those who are involved with hospitals. I disagree with Senator Landy. I believe Waterford Regional Hospital is broken. It is the worst regional hospital in the State by a country mile, an opinion I do not offer lightly.

I do not make that statement lightly because it is based on knowledge and experience.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator should back it up with facts.

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is welcome that somebody who is not involved in the matter will take a cold and objective view of the suitability of the hospital to provide services that may be substandard.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I join my colleagues in expressing horror at the alleged dangerous or illegal advice provided by certain pregnancy counselling organisations in this country. As a woman, it is horrific to think women are being advised to withhold information from their general practitioners, who would find it difficult to advise their patients properly without full information. The journalist concerned should be commended for posing questions which are both legitimate and in the public interest. Have the counsellors who face these allegations been suspended while an inquiry is ongoing? Is the inquiry being properly conducted? Perhaps the HSE should come before the Joint Committee on Health and Children. The Minister for Health or the Minister for Justice and Equality should certainly come before the Seanad to discuss the issues arising. Whatever side of the argument an individual may take when it comes to life, this matter pertains to the overall health of women.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are all on the side of life.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would hope so.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Leader to convey the serious concerns we have expressed to the relevant Minister.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Last but not least, I call the father of the Government side, Senator Paul Coghlan.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leas-Chathaoirleach has been most tolerant today. I welcome the appointment of Pat Spillane as the new chairman of the commission of the economic development of rural areas. We all know Mr. Spillane very well and I am confident that he has the energy, passion and drive to do an excellent job in this important role for rural Ireland.

A lot has been said today regarding malpractice in banks and family planning clinics. These are matters of public interest which warrant full investigation. I have called on previous occasions for a debate on banking. While I welcome that one senior executive has agreed to accept a reduced pension, uniformity among the pillar banks is needed in the interest of equity and fair play. We should do whatever is necessary to address the issue and I would welcome a debate with the Minister for Finance on the failure of the banks and the money that the Exchequer has provided to prop up these pension pots.

I did not read the article on family planning clinics but I share the concerns expressed by other speakers. Allegations of malpractice or illegality clearly warrant investigation. It would be welcome if the Leader could arrange for the relevant Minister to make a statement to the House on the matter because it cannot be left hanging. I commend Senators on their knowledge of and concern for the matter.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As it is only six weeks to Christmas, I cannot leave Senator Brennan out even though he indicated very late. I ask him to be brief.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not the senior man in this House and do not want the Leas-Chathaoirleach to refer to me as such. I welcome the announcement that Nextag will create 125 new jobs in Drogheda. I support Senator Quinn in calling for a debate on tourism and the opportunities to create jobs in that sector. The question of sick pay has been raised by several of my colleagues. The imposition on employers of the responsibility for paying the first four weeks of sick leave would be a retrograde step and force further SMEs to close.

Many of us in this House have asked and encouraged SMEs to create one job each. There are approximately 200,000 small and medium enterprises in this country and I do not think the imposition of four weeks' sick pay will encourage them to create jobs. If 60% of the SMEs were to take on one person each, this would make a significant difference to the unemployment figures.

I declare my abhorrence of what happened on the M1 in Belfast last week when David Black was killed on his way to work. He was a young man of 52 years of age with a young family and it would seem he was a great worker. I recall an incident 45 years ago, when I killed a dog belonging to a woman who was clipping a hedge, not too far from where this dastardly act occurred. That was 45 years ago on a Saturday evening at 7 p.m. I killed a red setter and the woman came out with her clippers and she said, "Young man, I'll take the head off you". I replied, "Go ahead, I deserve it." That was for killing a dog 45 years ago at 7 p.m. on a Saturday evening. I have never forgotten it. I cannot for the life of me understand how some of these guys can go to sleep. I did not sleep myself last night because of another reason. I do not understand how they can sleep when they planned to kill a man going to work.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Rather than allowing extra time we nearly had a replay today on the Order of Business.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

United would like a replay.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have run out of pages in my book at this stage.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will give priority tomorrow to Members who did not speak today.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, "That statements on alcohol consumption (resumed) be taken from 4.30 p.m. to 5.30 p.m. and that Private Members' business be taken from 5.30 p.m. to 7.30 p.m." Is that agreed?

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Agreed.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator MacSharry and others congratulated President Obama on his re-election. We all wish him well for the next four years and we hope his presidency will bring prosperity to his nation and help to bring prosperity to this country and the rest of the world.

I refer to the very important issue of home help services which was raised by Senator MacSharry. The Government is committed to supporting older people to live with dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. The Government has invested approximately ¤320 million this year in home help and home care packages. This funding is given to various HSE community-based services such as mainstream home help, enhanced home care packages, meals on wheels and day or respite care. These services meet the preferred wishes of many vulnerable older people while also reducing pressures elsewhere in the wider care system. Approximately 100,000 people, 20% of those over 65 years, receive some form of HSE community-based supports each year. This is a challenging year for the health services, including the maintenance of services in line with evolving resource pressures. The HSE has a statutory responsibility to live within its budget voted by the Oireachtas.

The HSE plan for 2012 was to deliver 10.7 million home help hours to 50,000 people with a budget of ¤200 million. It is proposed that there will be a reduction of approximately ¤8 million spending on home help between now and the end of the December or approximately 400,000 hours. However, the HSE intends that the impact of these reductions will be minimised for individual recipients by ensuring that services are provided in the first instance for direct patient care. Decisions on the provision of home help hours will continue to be based on a review of individual needs and no current recipient of the service who has an assessed need will be left without it. That commitment has been given and it will be honoured.

Senator MacSharry and many others raised the question of allegations that were printed in a newspaper about family planning clinics. I understand that an investigation is ongoing in that regard. It was also stated that the facts were reported to the Garda. I have the utmost confidence that if the Garda discovers any malpractice and illegal activity by any organisation that it will be acted upon. It is the appropriate authority to deal with the matter.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can I say something on the issue?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I did not interrupt the Senator, I ask him to allow me to finish. If allegations of malpractice are made the appropriate body to deal with them is the Garda.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, but there is State funding involved.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Bacik mentioned the Minister for Health's announcement of a new children's hospital. I am sure that we all welcome the fact that a decision was made. Everybody in the country wants it to start as soon as possible in order that we can provide medical care for the children of the country.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Well said.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Every Senator shares that wish. Senator Mac Conghail mentioned Private Member's time so we will have ample time this evening to debate the issue. As he stated, a comprehensive amendment has been tabled and it is an excellent amendment.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A small concession.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sure the House will be divided in its opinion but I am sure that the majority of Senators will favour the amendment. I will not enter into a debate on it now.

Senator Mac Conghail mentioned philanthropy and asked me to invite two Ministers to attend a debate on it as it would lead to better joined-up thinking. I shall investigate the possibility of having some Ministers here to debate the issue.

Senator Colm Burke mentioned that Teva Pharmaceuticals has announced that it will reduce the cost of generic drugs and that is welcome. The cost reductions announced in recent weeks are welcomed by all.

Senator Kelly and quite a number of Senators mentioned banks and pensions. There is no doubt that it is an issue that the public is rightly upset and angry about. The Government has consistently expressed its abhorrence at the excessive pay and pension levels that exist in the financial sector. As has been stated, it is not possible to reduce pensions for constitutional and legal reasons.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Change the law and make them pay tax.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader to continue, without interruption, please.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not possible to reduce the pension for a very small select group of people, the former CEOs of banks.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The political will is not there.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In addition, it is not legally possible.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a matter for the Garda.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not legally possible to use the tax system to tax a very select group of people. Tax must apply generally and it cannot apply to a number of named individuals.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is legal advice and the Leader is right.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am only giving the correct response. Perhaps it is not the answer that people want to hear but that is the fact.

A number of Members have asked me to invite the Minister for Finance to come here to debate the banks and pensions.

Next week we will have statements on the economy which is a pre-budget debate. We have had several debates on the economy as requested by the House. The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, will be in the House next week to address the very important area of the budget. On 14 November the Fiscal Responsibility Bill will be before the House and will be taken by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, as well as the Credit Union Bill on 4 December. We will have ample opportunity with those three items to deal with banks, pensions and other areas of the economy on which Members have requested debates. We are providing sufficient time for these items to be discussed.

Senators Cullinane, Landy, Michael D?Arcy and others raised Professor John Higgins?s proposals for hospital groupings in the south east. I understand his reports are based on academic linkages. If they are based on those only, then I believe they are flawed. Clinical considerations and best outcomes for patients should have far greater weight than academic considerations. The south-east hospital network should not be broken up as it is working very well. I accept there is always room for improvement in achieving greater trust and better working arrangements between all the hospitals in the region. Accordingly, I hope hospital consultants in Kilkenny and Waterford hospitals will engage in meaningful negotiations in this regard. I reject Senator Michael D?Arcy?s comments on Waterford regional hospital. He would be well advised to read the KPMG Prospectus report which indicates that hospital is one of the best performing regional hospitals in the country.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader is responding.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was claimed by Senator Michael D?Arcy that it was the worst regional hospital which is defamatory and should be withdrawn.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Member is not here to withdraw his comments.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader has pointed out how an objective and independent report shows it is not the worst regional hospital.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Senator, with all due respects, is out of order.

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Member who made that claim is out of order, not me.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Michael D?Arcy was out of order in making comments he cannot back up.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Leader conclude?

Denis Landy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise to the Leader but the issue needed to be raised.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have commented on it. I could say much more but I will not on this occasion. I am sure we will have an opportunity to discuss the report when it is published.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government Members are all falling out with each other.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thought the Leyden was going to give us the acceptance speech of the US President, Mr. Obama.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader is very kind. He now knows what it is like dealing with hospitals, like we used to.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Mullins and Mary Ann O?Brien raised the issue of Irish Aid and moneys spent in its programmes. The Minister of State, Deputy Costello, will address this matter and others in the House in early course. The issues of payments to chief executive officers of charities and the misappropriation of funds in Uganda were also raised and these too will be addressed by the Minister of State.

Senator Barrett raised the matter of extending the vote to 16 year olds as was decided by the Northern Ireland Assembly yesterday. This is a matter that will be dealt with by the Constitutional Convention but we will have an opportunity to discuss it in this House also.

Various Senators raised the matter of The Gathering. We will be having a debate on it early in the new year. When we come back after the Christmas recess, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, will attend the House for a general debate on tourism during which this matter can be raised.

Senator O'Keeffe referred to mental health matters and the lack of regulation of people offering help. This is an important matter and I am sure we will arrange a debate on it. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Lynch, has been in the House on several occasions to deal with the matter and will be willing to attend again.

Senator Comiskey commented on a completely different matter, the question of dieback disease affecting ash trees, which is a serious problem for the country. We will arrange a debate on it. The Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McEntee, is willing to come to the House and perhaps we will try to get him in here next week to discuss the matter. Senator Norris referred to Dr. Schäuble. I take it the Senator is not a great admirer of Dr. Schäuble.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Certainly. I think he lacks a sense of irony.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Eamonn Coghlan referred to cyber bullying. This matter will be the subject of a Fine Gael Private Members' motion next week. We will have ample opportunity for a debate and contributions from all sides of the House on this important issue.

Senator Wilson adverted to the future of the Reserve Defence Force. The Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter, addressed the matter in the other House only one hour ago but certainly we will get a full response for the Senator on the issue. No decisions have been made in this regard. On a different but related matter, the Civil Defence Bill will be brought before the House next week.

Senator Hayden called for a debate on women's health. I am sure this will be welcomed by all and we will try to arrange it.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is unacceptable when there is a pressing matter with the Garda.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader to continue, without interruption.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Senator Hayden also commented on the children's rights referendum. It is important that we urge all people to go out and vote in this important referendum and secure a "Yes" vote.

Senators Jim D'Arcy and Brennan referred to jobs for Drogheda. They are delivering for their constituents in that part of the constituency. Any announcement on jobs in the country is to be welcomed. Let us hope there will be many more job announcements in many other areas of the country in the near future.

Senator Mary Ann O'Brien highlighted the need for a charity regulator and referred to issues of sick pay. We will have the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, in the House next week.

Senators Keane and Brennan commented on the killing or murder of the prison officer, David Black. We all extend our sympathy to the Black family on his callous murder and condemn totally the perpetrators, for whom there is no room in this country. They should be rooted out and brought to justice as soon as possible. I am sure that the Garda and the PSNI will do everything and work in co-operation to bring the perpetrators of this murder to justice as soon as possible. It is only right to say that any person who has information on this murder should give it to the PSNI or the Garda. There should be no room in the country for the perpetrators.

Senator Paul Coghlan spoke on the appointment of Pat Spillane. Needless to say, although the Senator has congratulated him, he is another Kerryman.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is a national figure.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Order of Business agreed to?

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Did the Leader indicate whether he was acceding to the request from all sides of the House for the Minister for Justice and Equality or the Minister for Health to come to the House to make a statement on the allegations of illegality in family planning clinics?

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Leader addressed the issue.