Seanad debates

Thursday, 28 June 2012

10:30 am

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Credit Guarantee Bill 2012 - Committee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2 p.m.; and No. 2, Gaeltacht Bill 2012 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 2 p.m. and adjourn at 4.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.

Photo of Marc MacSharryMarc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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We will not oppose the Order of Business.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Brian Hayes, to come to the House next week to outline the position in regard to the flooding in Cork, which is badly affected, and throughout the country, and ensure that funding under the minor works scheme is made available without delay to the areas in need. I commend the emergency services for their quick reaction throughout the night. As it appears the problems are set to continue, it is important that the Minister of State clarifies those issues.

I am concerned at the impact of the Ulster Bank crisis given that 60,000 people are facing into a second week without social welfare payments. Next week some 48,000 people will expect their children's allowance payments or child support payments. There is no certainty as to the end of the crisis. I ask the Leader to contact the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Joan Burton, to impress on the bank the need to make alternative arrangements for people because it appears Ulster Bank does not know whether it is coming or going. The work was to be done by Monday morning, Wednesday, then the end of the week but, clearly, it will be the middle of next week before the problems are solved.

On another social welfare issue, I call for a debate on changes to the mortgage interest supplement, as it appears unemployed persons may have to wait up to 18 months before qualifying for State support. It is ridiculous in the extreme to expect people in distress to wait 18 months to qualify for payments they need to survive. As mentioned yesterday, this reminds me of the insolvency Bill which will be published tomorrow but will not be debated until October. While the bankers, bondholders and politicians are on holidays, those who cannot afford to go on holidays must wait until October while we assess the pros and cons of the legislation which is supposed to give some relief. According to reports, the banks will have a veto on all issues. I would prefer to see the people in command rather than the banks. Following on from yesterday, I appeal for a debate next week on the proposed insolvency legislation. It is simply unacceptable that we go on holidays without first considering the legislation to bring in the much-needed measures.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I know the Leader will address the issue of the insolvency Bill. I do not think there will be any difficulty about sitting longer to have that debate. I said previously that the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality report on the insolvency Bill, following two days of hearings, would be a useful topic for debate.

The Senator raised the issue of Ulster Bank. We are all concerned that the fiasco is dragging on and that the people are affected through not being able to receive payments. The Minister for Social Protection is seeking to have the issue addressed for social welfare recipients. I hope there will be a resolution before too long.

I welcome the announcement that a growth package has been agreed at EU level. We hope to see the details fleshed out in the next day or two on foot of the EU meeting in Brussels. It is hugely important that this be agreed in parallel with the stability treaty, which we have debated at length, and that a growth package be agreed to address the difficulties to ensure a return to economic recovery.

Yesterday I asked the Leader to arrange a debate with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. I watched in dismay as it descended into a debate when a number of Senators expressed misapprehensions on the issue of abortion. In its research, the Crisis Pregnancy Agency has clearly addressed the constant refrain that somehow the women who have had an abortion will suffer mentally as a result. Certainly that is not borne out by the Crisis Pregnancy Agency research nor is it borne out by international research. It is not appropriate to conduct an abortion debate on billboards. I did not suggest that anyone be censored. I simply requested a debate with the Minister in order to discuss the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland with which any person who has an issue with any advertising on a billboard, commercial or non-commercial, may raise a complaint with the authority which can take action as it does on commercial advertising. The right of citizens to complain is important. The remit of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is an important issue that should be addressed. I have raised it previously in the context of social media. As it does not come within the remit of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland, its remit should be extended. I ask the Leader to arrange that debate in early course.

I wish all those taking part in the Pride parade on Saturday well. Senator Katherine Zappone mentioned yesterday the Dublin LGBTQ Pride Parade which is taking place in Dublin city this weekend. It is a huge parade and a huge festival and carnival through the streets of Dublin. I look forward to taking part. All of us will enjoy the rainbow flags that are festooning the quays in honour of Pride.

Photo of Deirdre CluneDeirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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I support the request that the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, be invited to come to the House to report on the flooding in Cork. It is appropriate to wait until next week when the reports from the city and county managers should be available. There is no point in demanding a debate at this stage. We should allow the emergency services to deal with the situation on the ground. My sympathy is with businesses people and home owners who are experiencing unprecedented difficulties, particularly in Douglas. I am concerned that a new culvert put in place in the past 12 months has failed and that the rainfall predictions have been exceeded. It would be appropriate for the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to feed into the debate. Without going into the climate change debate, the levels of rainfall predicted have been exceeded in the past month in the Cork area. If we are to install expensive facilities to prevent flooding we must go back to the drawing board and revise much of the design.

Photo of John GilroyJohn Gilroy (Labour)
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I add my voice to the calls that all the resources of the State be made available to deal with the flooding, particularly in Cork. I listened to the Cork county manager on "Morning Ireland" this morning who attributed the flooding to 50 mm of rain falling in four or five hours, which is the equivalent of about two months' rain and it overwhelmed the anti-flood measures put in place. I call on the Minister to consider making emergency funding available to businesses and home owners who have been unable to acquire insurance due to previous flooding. I ask him to support businesses who are already hard pressed in the economic climate and consider a rates holiday for those most badly affected by flooding.

Photo of Paschal MooneyPaschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I endorse all that has been said in respect of the flooding crisis affecting communities in various parts of the country. There is an extra dimension to this issue. Ms Evelyn Cusack from the Met service stated last night that June has been one of the wettest months on record. A real problem, which appears to have gone off the radar, arises in the Shannon basin around Athlone. Two weeks ago, farmers in that area expressed serious concern at the high water levels on the Shannon and called on the statutory agencies to ensure the levels would be reduced. One farmer said 50 acres of land was flooded which he was unable to access for silage purposes. That is a crisis for the families concerned. The problem is that there are three State agencies involved with the Shannon waterways - Waterways Ireland, the ESB and the Office of Public Works. I have a particular interest in the first lake of the Shannon, Lough Allen, which is just outside of Drumshambo and is used as a reservoir. When work on the Shannon scheme was undertaken in the late 1920s, sluice gates were erected that could be raised and lowered, thus controlling the level of the lake to take account of the needs further down the Shannon. This is causing a problem that needs to be addressed. In the context of the request by Senator MacSharry for the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, to come to the House, would the Cathaoirleach convey my concern about this problem to him so that he would be able to bring clarity to the role of the three agencies?

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I respectfully disagree with Senator Bacik that there is no evidence to support the contention that those who have had an abortion do not experience emotional and mental effects in the long term. Certainly abortion may appear like a solution in the short term. This depends on who one speaks to and the group that carried out the research. Not everyone holds the view that it has no effects.

Senator MacSharry and I have been looking for solutions for home owners for a number of years. I welcome the proposal for split mortgages, whereby couples, families and individuals will be re-examined to see what percentage of the mortgage they can afford to pay back and the part of the mortgage they cannot afford will be parked. The fact that interest will be applied to the portion of the mortgage that is parked is a source of controversy. However, I support that notion that simple interest of considerably less than 1% would be apportioned to the parked portion of the mortgage so it is considered a performing loan on the banks' books. Some people expected that no interest would be applied to the parked portion of the mortgage, but it must be less than 1% and charged at simple interest. This is a great solution for families who are worried about keeping their homes. It will bring dignity to such families. I ask the Leader to allow for a debate on this topic once the Bill is published tomorrow and certainly before the summer recess? This bill needs to be thrashed out so that people are clear about it.

Senator MacSharry also raised the question of the mortgage interest supplement. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, made clear during the debate on social welfare that after 12 months a family would qualify to apply for a mortgage interest supplement payment.

Photo of David CullinaneDavid Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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During the past number of days, two of the Leader's ministerial colleagues from the Fine Gael Party called for the Government to breach its commitments under the Croke Park agreement. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, called for the suspension of increments for those paid from the public purse. Ironically this is during the same week that the Government again breached its own salary caps for those employed at the highest level in the public service, in particular the salary of the newly-appointed chief executive of the VHI which is a State agency. On the one hand the Government is breaching the salary cap for high earners while at the same time calling for the increments of the low and middle-income earners in the public service to be scrapped. Those at the highest level in the civil and public service have a single pay point but it will take a new entrant at clerical officer level on a salary of €29,859, 17 years and 13 separate increments to get to a salary of €33,607. A Secretary General in a Department has a salary of €200,000 per annum. This is more kite flying by Fine Gael Ministers.

The Taoiseach has asked Ministers not to comment on the Croke Park agreement or the budget, but there is no doubt that they are flying kites. We had a debate in this House not so long ago on the Croke Park agreement but I think we must invite the Minister to return to allay the fears of low-income earners in the civil and public service about their levels of pay. When the Minister came to this House, he was very clear that by and large the Croke Park agreement was working but that a number of areas needed to be addressed. I do not think it is correct to go after the lowest paid workers in the public service while breaching the salary limits and not doing anything about the very high levels of pay for senior members of staff in the public service.

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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I listened with interest to Senator Cullinane expressing his concern about over spending. On the occasion of the Queen's visit to Belfast yesterday, the performance of the deputy leader of Sinn Féin last night on "Tonight with Vincent Browne" was spell binding.

Some 14 months ago when the Queen visited the Republic of Ireland, I stood beside the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, the late Councillor Michael Brown, the Lord have mercy on him, who asked me if he was doing the right thing by shaking the Queen's hand.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business. Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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He knew that I knew that Deputy Mary Lou McDonald had spent two hours telling him not to meet the Queen yet 14 months later she defends it on national television.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has Senator Landy a question for the Leader?

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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It is nauseating. I have a question for the Leader. It is little wonder there were floods in Belfast last night, it was the tears of Republicans looking at their iconic hero shaking hands with the Queen.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator looking for a debate on this issue?

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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If Sinn Féin wants to save money, there is only one last option, that is to sign the oath of allegiance - - - - -

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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This is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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- - - - - and to drawn their money properly. My question is----

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Barrett.

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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I will not put the question.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is it on a separate issue?

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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A Senator can only speak on one issue in the House.

Photo of Denis LandyDenis Landy (Labour)
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I have seen other Members speak on three or four issues.

Photo of Sean BarrettSean Barrett (Independent)
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Yesterday, Enterprise Ireland issued its annual report. I am afraid that on page 7 it reported that expenditure of more than €110 million resulted in only six net jobs being created. It touched on issues we have discussed in the Chamber and the Leader has facilitated these discussions, such as that grants are not the solution to Ireland's employment problems. There is a range of issues involved such as energy policy, sheltered sector costs, competition policy in which we made efforts to encourage the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton, to take a more radical approach than he was indicating, education reform and public sector reform and value for money. In five regions - Dublin, the mid-east region, which is Kildare, Meath and Wicklow, the midlands, the south east and the north east - employment is declining in the companies that received the €110 million. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on industrial policy in the widest context, given the high levels of unemployment we face which show that one cannot rely on giving grants to companies, because one ends up with a mere six additional jobs.

11:00 am

Photo of Colm BurkeColm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I join with my colleagues in expressing concern about last night's flooding, particularly in the Cork area. It is not so long ago since the western side of the city was badly affected, now Douglas, on the south side and Ballyvolane and Blackpool on the north side are seriously affected. It goes back to the issue of long-term planning and whether we are making adequate provision for such events. Let me give the House two simple examples. UCC built a brand new complex on the banks of the river. Within 12 months of opening it the basement level, where all the computer equipment was located, was flooded and some €25 million worth of goods were destroyed. Likewise, the Courts Service located its computer system in the basement of the courthouse in Cork which was destroyed when the building was flooded. I wonder about long-term planning. State organisations and local authorities need to be far more proactive in this regard.

At 3.30 a.m. today, Cork City Council implemented the emergency action plan. I congratulate the council and everyone involved for taking decisive action and dealing with the issue there and then. We should thank them for taking action so speedily, but the Minister of State needs to report to the House on the matter. Once a full report has been made, our planning needs to become more proactive and long term rather than reactive.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps it has already been mentioned, but will the Leader consider arranging a debate on Northern Ireland in the near future? Will he also request that the Taoiseach attend for the debate? Everything has been raised to a new level in recent years, which would be emphasised by the Taoiseach's presence. In normal circumstances, a handshake is a simple matter. Yesterday's handshake was special, and not just symbolically. It was evident that the generosity of spirit that accompanied the handshake would be important to the island's future and its international relationships. It could not have been easy for Martin McGuinness or the Queen, but they realised that it was what people wanted. There was a feeling abroad that a whole new vista was opening up for us.

Those of us who have been Senators for a long time will remember our debates on Northern Ireland in darker times when there was a terrible sense of futility and of being unable to move forward. We should salute everyone who has contributed to the peace process.

Leaving the past behind will take a generosity of spirit. Each time we raise an incident, we dilute the positives. The Seanad is the right place to try to encapsulate yesterday's spirit. Perhaps the Leader will consider arranging the debate in the near future.

Photo of Susan O'KeeffeSusan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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Given Senator Ó Murchú's comments regarding the handshake and the relevant difficulties, I am looking forward to next Tuesday's address by Mr. Drew Nelson, the grand secretary of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, in pursuit of the idea that we listen to and communicate with one another. It is a slow, gradual process and progress is clearly being made.

I add my voice to the calls for a debate on the personal insolvency Bill. If we need to sit for longer to ensure that the legislation can be passed before our recess, we will do everything in our power to do so, given the level of urgency.

Photo of Michael MullinsMichael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join with my colleagues in extending our support and good wishes to the people of Cork, who are experiencing great difficulties this morning. I support the call for the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, to discuss with the House the flooding across the country, particularly in the Shannon catchment area and callows. He intends to discuss the matter with the Office of Public Works, Waterways Ireland and the ESB, given the serious disagreement between them and the IFA regarding the causes of some of the flooding in the Shannon callows.

I rise this morning to congratulate the Garda on the record seizure of a shipment of cocaine. Major crime bosses in this city are reputed to have lost €3 million each. Some "investors", as they are called, from mainland Europe and the UK have taken a significant financial hit. It is difficult to quantify how many people will continue to live as a result of the Garda's excellent work. We have a responsibility to ensure that the Garda is sufficiently resourced to tackle serious crime. I hope that the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, is continuing to take a close look at how the people in question are making their money and for what the proceeds of crime are being used.

We are conscious of the considerable damage being done to many lives, particularly young people. The drugs issue would make for a good discussion topic at a public consultation session in the Chamber. I would welcome an opportunity to hear from all of the people who are working with those whose lives have been damaged by drugs. It is incumbent on us to do something constructive to tackle the curse of drugs and to do something for those whose lives are being destroyed daily. Will the Leader consider arranging for a public consultation session on this issue at some point?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator MacSharry's concern for distressed home owners is understandable and is shared by everyone on all sides of the House. I remind him that the Bill to be published tomorrow is a Dáil Bill. Although I appreciate his comments, he might need to discuss the timing of its passage with his party's Whip in the Lower House. A number of its measures to assist people in distress are welcome. The banks share in the blame for all of the unsustainable loans they made available and without proper security. It is only right that they share in the solution. However, we must not forget the taxpayer's vested interest in the matter. The taxpayer owns 99% of one of the two pillar banks and more than 15% of the second bank. As taxpayers, we have an interest in ensuring that these banks return to profitability, and the sooner the better. There must be a balance and I hope that it has been struck fairly. I believe it has, but we will know tomorrow. The timing will depend on the Senator's people in the Lower House.

Photo of Caít KeaneCaít Keane (Fine Gael)
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Everyone is willing to stay for as long as possible to ensure that the personal insolvency Bill is passed. Both Houses have sat for longer this year and will return earlier than ever before. They will sit until nearly the end of July and return during the first week or so of September whereas the holidays used to be longer. This is welcome.

I welcome the new mortgage to rent scheme announced by the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, yesterday. It will lift a weight from the shoulders of people who are at their wit's end, in that they will now be able to stay in their houses and rent them back from housing associations. The banks have agreed to absorb the loss, that is, the difference between the mortgage amount and the sale price paid by the housing association. Renting a house when one used to own it is not ideal, but it is better than losing or being evicted from the house. Children can stay in the same school and people can remain in the same neighbourhood, all of which is welcome.

Last Thursday, the Minister for Justice and Equality published a report on cash for gold shops, one of the first issues I raised as a Senator. The report reads: "It is arguably inconsistent that there are specific rules and regulations that apply to pawnbrokers ... and that similar appropriate and adapted rules and regulations do not apply to Cash for Gold outlets." This is a legislative inconsistency and the House should debate the report. I thank the Minister for publishing it, given the great deal of work involved.

People are scared in their houses. The number of burglaries increased by 8% between 2010 and 2011. Old people are scared about any bit of jewellery that they might have in their houses. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Justice and Equality to come to the House to discuss the report with a view to addressing this issue? The cash for gold shops are mushrooming and there are now 124. I compliment the Garda which, according to the report, visited every one of them. However, it can only do so much under the legislation. May we debate this issue with a view to changing the legislation, if necessary?

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I wish to address two matters. Previously, there was a call for a debate on the situation in the Middle East which I ask the Leader to try to arrange as soon as possible. Two or three weeks ago there were claims about certain comments apparently made by the Israeli deputy ambassador which caused difficulty for some Members. There were disputes over whether they were accurate. However, there can be no dispute about the accuracy of comments made on Tuesday by the Iranian Vice President, Mr. Mohammad-Reza Rahimi. This gentleman, speaking on behalf of Iran, claims Jews are behind the global trade in illegal drugs, murder black babies and were responsible for the 1917 Bolshevik revolution in Russia. These inane, insane comments from a representative of the Iranian Government clearly show the politics of the Middle East are not as black and white as some of the proponents of the anti-Israeli brigade proclaim. We need a debate on this issue as soon as possible.

I was absent for the comments of Senator Ivana Bacik, but I very much support those of Senator Fidelma Healy Eames.

As we all know, there is an expert group meeting to consider the question of abortion. I have no difficulty whatsoever with expert groups. They bring their expertise to the table, but they may also bring their personal prejudices with them. The expert group will be presenting a report to the Oireachtas and the Government, which will then make decisions. It is the Oireachtas that will make decisions, not the expert group. It would be helpful to have a debate on the broad issue of abortion and the right to life, which subject is not only before the expert group but which also will be before the people in the very near future. A decision will be made thereon not by the expert group but by politicians and the people. Presumably, during the course the summer recess, the expert group will issue its report, but a message must be sent loudly and clearly that it is politicians and the Government who will make decisions and, if necessary, take decisions to the public for a recommendation. An expert group's advice is simply advice and does not have to be accepted or rejected. A calm, reflective debate in this House on the subject would be helpful and might even help the expert group in helping it to know what the representatives of the people believe.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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It is welcome that Mr. Martin McGuinness shook the hand of Queen Elizabeth II yesterday. It is another step forward in the peace process.

It is also welcome that the Personal Insolvency Bill will be published by the Government tomorrow. I have the highest respect for the Government Whip in this House, Senator Paul Coghlan. He has stated it is a Dáil Bill, but he should note that a Bill does not belong to either House; as we all know, a Bill can be commenced in either House. My party will meet all next week to facilitate consideration of the Bill and also the following week, the week thereafter and into August, if necessary. I make this commitment on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party to ensure all Stages can be taken before the summer recess.

Photo of Martin ConwayMartin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I, too, would like to be associated with the positive comments made about the famous handshake yesterday. I hope the country is moving further into a new era of understanding, proper relationships, respect and courtesy that will benefit us internationally as we try to rebuild the country and encourage people throughout the world to holiday in Ireland, both North and South.

There has been much talk in recent days about the upcoming Personal Insolvency Bill. I very much look forward to its publication because it will certainly create a road map for people to work their way out of their very difficult circumstances with the assistance of the Government. I hope sincerely that the legislation will deal with the arrogance of the banks. A very interesting meeting is taking place in Ballsbridge today, namely, the annual general meeting of the bank we own, Allied Irish Banks. I am certainly interested in hearing the account it is going to give to taxpayers who have a shareholding in the order of 95% of 96% of the way in which it has been treating mortgage holders and small businesses. Banks do not seem to be able to get anything right because there are still appalling circumstances in Ulster Bank. The computer difficulties in the bank have not been resolved to date and this will be the case for the next few days. The problem in the banking system in Ireland involves much more than computers, but this is a classic and clear example of absolute incompetence. I wish the Government well in putting the finishing touches to the Personal Insolvency Bill. It will be watershed legislation, whereby the people will grasp the problem by the scruff of the neck and deal with it. We have been waiting for the banks to address it for too long.

Photo of Jim WalshJim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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The Opposition spokesman on finance in the Dáil extrapolated very important information from the remarks of the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. It covered the IDA-sponsored visits to all counties and regions. It clearly underpins and illustrates the criticism made in this House with regard to the neglect of the south-east region by IDA Ireland. The figures are of major concern, not only in my county, Wexford, where there was but one visit in the past three years. A number of the industries established in Wexford in the past decade came not just because of encouragement by IDA Ireland but also because of connections that senior people in the industries concerned had with the county. The family of Mr. Donald Keough, a former CEO of Coca Cola, came from Wexford and he had a big influence on the decision to locate in the county. There are other companies located there for the same reason. What is occurring is not good enough. Even Waterford, the gateway to the region, enjoys fewer than half of the visits enjoyed by all other regional centres. This is totally unacceptable. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister to the House to debate this issue. I hope he will agree with me that when the rationalisation or restructuring of IDA Ireland took place, the movement of the office from Waterford to Cork was a retrograde step for the south-east region. That is what has led to what is happening now. At the time of relocation many of us forecast this outcome. My county has traditionally been at the top of the unemployment league. Therefore, I find what is occurring totally unacceptable. I appeal to my colleagues in the Oireachtas from the south-east region to combine on an all-party basis to fight for the region. It is our obligation to do so in response to the trust citizens of the area have placed in us as their public representatives.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I was a little delayed in attending the House this morning because I was attending the launch of a very important conference in Dublin Castle, the conference of the European Gay Police Association. The Garda Commissioner, Mr. Martin Callinan, spoke very effectively, while the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, spoke extremely well. I compliment the extraordinarily courageous gardaí who have arranged the conference. It is only the sixth such conference. It was given a great welcome and superbly organised. There is a very large number of delegations from countries across Europe, one of which includes superintendent Herman Renes. It is worth putting on the record that Sergeant Paul Franey did this country proud. One reason I mention the conference is it is an historic event. Another is to ask the Leader to keep an eye out for the reforming legislation to which the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, used this important conference to give a public commitment as a matter of urgency. This is the matter that troubled many Members, including myself and Senator Bacik, the leader of the Labour Party in the House, namely, the question of children being excluded from the considerations of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010, about which the Minister, Deputy Shatter, spoke. It is extremely heartening that he stated this was being brought to the Government as a matter of urgency. This was stated in front of representatives of the police forces of Europe and it is important that Members maintain discreet pressure to ensure that this happens. One point by which I was a little taken aback was that in the list of human rights areas to be protected, sexual orientation came last. I understand one of the first was the Traveller community. As the person who introduced those measures and fought first of all against the former Minister for Justice, Gerard Collins, who refused to accept them and then, curiously, Ray Burke, who did accept them, I note they work together. Statistically, the number of gay people both in the Garda and in the general community is higher than in any of the other groups, perhaps with some exceptions. However, it certainly comprises a large group and should be moved up to be perceived as a priority.

Finally, I listened with amusement to the political programme, "The Late Debate", on RTE radio last night, because the level of narcissism between politicians, the media and the broadcasters reached such a level that it actually blew the fuse on my transistor radio. Consequently, I was spared from listening to the end of the programme. However, I refer to the degree of self-congratulation and the completely nonsensical and unsustainable idea that the media consistently deal with issues, rather than stories and personalities. I am sorry my radio broke down because I would have liked a further laugh at the end of the day. It always is good to go to sleep on a laugh and the contributors certainly provided that. However, it was a laugh at the narcissism and lack of reality of those who pose as commentators.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The acting leader of the Opposition, Senator MacSharry, and many other Members raised the question of the flooding in Cork and other areas. I will endeavour to have the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, come into the House. As has been mentioned, especially by the Senators from Cork, namely, Senators Clune, Gilroy and Burke, a report has been sought by the Minister of State from the Office of Public Works and the various agencies. I am sure that when these reports are available, the Minister of State will be willing to come in and discuss this serious matter. It is a serious issue both for Cork and, as Senator Mooney noted, in many other areas nationwide in which farmers were unable to access their lands and similar incidents. It is an important matter and I will endeavour to have the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, come into the House at the earliest possible opportunity to discuss it.

Quite a number of Members mentioned the personal insolvency Bill and I understand the Department of Justice and Equality is in the process of arranging a briefing for the spokespersons from all parts of the Houses in the coming week. As the Bill is being published as a Dáil Bill, its passage will commence in the Lower House. Perhaps Members can have an opportunity to examine it before it is introduced to the other House. As I stated, if it is necessary to meet for longer times in this House to deal with this Bill, I certainly will provide the time. However, I reiterate it will come into the other House first as it is being published as a Dáil Bill.

Senator MacSharry also raised the issue of mortgage interest supplement and the Government certainly is fully aware of the difficulties faced by many households in meeting their mortgage repayments. The purpose of the mortgage interest supplement is to provide short-term income supplement and support to eligible people who are unable to meet their mortgage interest repayments in respect of a house that is their sole place of residence. The supplement assists with the interest portion of the mortgage repayments only and at present, 18,000 people are in receipt of mortgage interest supplements. The Government has provided almost €51 million for mortgage interest supplement in 2012. In line with the Cooney and Keane reports, budget 2012 provided for the curtailment of the mortgage interest supplement scheme for the first 12 months, while the person concerned is involved in the mortgage arrears resolution process. Mortgage interest supplement will not be payable until such time as the applicants have complied with the alternative payment arrangement agreed with their lender for a cumulative period of not less than 12 months prior to the application. I believe the important point is this measure will not affect existing recipients of mortgage interest supplement but will apply to all new applications received on or after the commencement date of 18 June.

Senator Bacik raised the question of the European Union summit and I believe all Members will wish the Taoiseach well in his endeavours to negotiate, on behalf of the country, both a growth package and some alleviation of our bank debt, which is of paramount importance. The Senator also raised a question which she had raised yesterday in respect of advertising standards. Senators Healy Eames and Bradford raised the question of abortion and as I believe I addressed both of those issues yesterday , I do not wish to refer to them again today. As I mentioned, Senators Mooney, Clune and Gilroy raised the flooding situation, with which I have dealt. Senator Healy Eames raised the insolvency Bill and I reiterate briefings will be arranged for the spokespersons on that from the Department of Justice and Equality. The Senator also welcomed the solutions for homeowners, as I believe will all Members.

Senator Cullinane made reference to matters relating to the Croke Park agreement. On the Order of Business on Tuesday, I outlined the Government position on that matter, which still stands today. Senator Barrett raised the Enterprise Ireland report and seeks a debate on industrial policy. This also was requested by Senator Walsh in respect of the IDA. It would be good to have an overall debate in respect of the policies of Enterprise Ireland and the IDA. I certainly will ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, to come into the House to deal with those matters.

Senator Ó Murchú sought a debate on Northern Ireland and I certainly will arrange such a debate. However, I note there was criticism from the Senator's side of the House to the effect the Taoiseach might be coming in to the House merely to discuss Northern Ireland. Nevertheless, I assure the Senator that I will arrange a debate on the subject. Peace, reconciliation and understanding of other people's views is very important and those matters can be discussed in the context of that debate. Moreover, as Senator O'Keeffe mentioned, the Orange Order will be here next week and that is all part of the process.

Photo of Jim WalshJim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I hope it will be asked about sectarianism within the organisation.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mullins congratulated the Garda and the Customs and Excise on the seizure of a large haul of cocaine. Members' gratitude is due to the Garda for this act. He also called on the Seanad Public Consultation Committee to consider the question of drugs. While requests have been made for a number of items to be discussed by the aforementioned committee, I certainly will take on board the Senator's views on that matter.

Senator Paul Coghlan also spoke on the insolvency Bill and stated that the taxpayers' interest also must be considered. Senator Keane raised the issue of cash-for-gold shops and the potential necessity to change legislation. As the Senator noted, the Minister for Justice and Equality produced a report on this subject last week and I will endeavour to have the Minister come into the House to explain and discuss that report. Senator Bradford called for a debate on the Middle East and I have asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Gilmore, to come into the House to hold such a debate. The Senator also mentioned a matter raised by Senator Norris, which I have also referred to the Tánaiste, concerning the deputy ambassador of Israel.

Senator Bradford also referred to outrageous comments by a representative of the Iranian Government. We can discuss that matter when we have a debate on the Middle East. The Senator said, rightly, that the Oireachtas will decide on any legislation, and not any expert group.

Photo of Jim WalshJim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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That group has been corrupted.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Senator Wilson referred to the insolvency Bill, but I do not think there will be a need to sit all of next week on it. It has been published as a Dáil Bill.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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It can be published as a Seanad one. There is nothing to stop us.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We can certainly debate it if Members so wish. Senator Conway mentioned the insolvency Bill and the Ulster Bank's problems, which I addressed earlier in the week on the Order of Business.

Senator Walsh raised IDA policy with specific reference to the south east. I agree with him that the number of visits to the south east, which is the biggest unemployment blackspot in the country, has been paltry. I also agree that the reduction of IDA offices from eight to four, as proposed in 1996, has had a detrimental effect on the south east, including Waterford. Senator Mooney raised the issue of IDA visits yesterday. In 1996, as mayor of Waterford, I led a delegation from the city to try to prevent this restructuring but, unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears. We have suffered the consequences as a result. None the less we will invite the Minister to the House to have a debate as soon as possible on policy concerning the IDA and Enterprise Ireland.

I note Senator Norris's comments on the Civil Partnership Bill and the commitment given by the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, at today's conference.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Order of Business agreed to?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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No. The Leader referred to the question of the communiqué, which has now been confirmed from Mrs. Nurit Tinari-Modai.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Norris, you have already spoken on the Order of Business.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I raised this issue a week or two ago. Last week, the Leader told me he would have an answer for the House.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Norris, you should resume your seat.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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He has simply referred it to the Tánaiste, which is not an answer. I need an answer. This is a most damaging and significant development.

Photo of Paddy BurkePaddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Order of Business agreed to?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am not agreeing to the Order of Business.

Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."

The Seanad Divided:

For the motion: 26 (Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Colm Burke, Deirdre Clune, Paul Coghlan, Michael Comiskey, Martin Conway, Maurice Cummins, Michael D'Arcy, John Gilroy, Aideen Hayden, Fidelma Healy Eames, James Heffernan, Lorraine Higgins, Caít Keane, Denis Landy, Marie Maloney, Mary Moran, Tony Mulcahy, Rónán Mullen, Michael Mullins, Mary Ann O'Brien, Susan O'Keeffe, Pat O'Neill, Tom Shehan, Jillian van Turnhout)

Against the motion: 11 (Sean Barrett, David Cullinane, Marc MacSharry, Paschal Mooney, David Norris, Denis O'Donovan, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Averil Power, Jim Walsh, Mary White, Diarmuid Wilson)

Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O'Keeffe; Níl, Senators David Cullinane and David Norris..

Question declared carried.

Sitting suspended at 11.55 a.m. and resumed at 12.15 p.m.