Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister for Justice and Equality to the House. Last week I also raised this issue. As the Minister is present, I welcome the publication of the heads of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Bill. I acknowledge his commitment to establish the new body that will be strengthened in its ability to respect human rights and the equal status of everyone in our society. I also acknowledge how swiftly he has moved in response to the working group's report that was grounded in a substantial public consultation process. As the Senators and the Minister are aware, the report is based not only on insights from the public consultation process but up-to-date substantive literature regarding best practice of mergers within a comparative context. What came through from the working group's report, particularly the executive summary, was that from almost every source, both the consultation and the theoretical literature, a recurring theme emerged that the new organisation must be independent and comply with the UN and Paris Principles. My questions centre on the potency of the new body's effectiveness and its ability to operate with genuine independence. Resources play an integral part in both.

I also raise my questions in the context of the €3.4 million cut from the budgets of the Irish Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority since 2008. As a former member of the Irish Human Rights Commission I saw at first hand how the reduction impacted on our work. Even with the "open for business" approach that the commission's president, Dr. Maurice Manning, and the former CEO, Mr. Éamonn Mac Aodha, had after those cuts, without question the commission had to cut back in exercising its functions with the consequent effect of having less of an impact on the protection and promotion of human rights in Ireland.

With regard to the effectiveness of the new body, I note and welcome head 28 of the Bill which stipulates, "The Commission shall be provided with sufficient resources to ensure that it can carry out each of its functions effectively." In regard to the independence of the new body I note that the working group outlined how financial security is a core component of institutional independence. Given the restrictions on the budgets of the two bodies and the working group's assessment that neither body is able to carry out its full mandate in the light of these restrictions, how will the new commission achieve independence and effectiveness? The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, indicated recently that there would be an immediate saving of €500,000 following the merger. Where will these savings be made? It does not appear we will go anywhere near towards ensuring the provision of proper resources to carry out the enhanced functions of the new commission in the context of what is provided for in the heads of the Bill. What are the Minister's plans to ensure the new body will achieve "A" status from the international co-ordinating committee of the national human rights institutions and thereby indicate that we will comply with the Paris Principles, to which, of course, independence and effectiveness are central?

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I thank the Senator for raising this matter on the Adjournment.

I take the opportunity to emphasise the Government's continued commitment to promoting respect for human rights and equality of opportunity in Irish society and the Minister's personal commitment to a successful merger of the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority. I am responding on behalf of the Minister who has been moving between the two Houses all day. No matter how superhuman one is, one needs a food break.

Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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I fully accept that.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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As the Minister said last week when announcing Government approval of the general scheme of the Bill to create the new Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, our society will benefit from having a strong and effective human rights and equality body. The two bodies mentioned have their strengths and the Minister intends that the new commission will combine the best of both. By pulling the two together we are aiming to keep the strengths of each and build something new that will be more effective than the sum of the existing two bodies in pursuing its mandate. The levelling up of powers and functions, the introduction of a new role in supporting public bodies to have due regard to equality and human rights issues in their work and the creation of a sliding scale of possible interventions and powers which can be exercised in a nuanced way commensurate with the nature of the problem, including as a last resort, an effective power of inquiry and powers to initiate court action will all serve to make this a more effective body than its two predecessors combined.

The Minister is aware of the history of funding cuts in the two bodies in the past four to five years. He has made strengthening the new commission and ensuring it complies unequivocally with the Paris Principles a personal commitment in the preparation of the Bill to establish the new body and in the merger process. He is of the view that it is of crucial importance to ensure the new body will achieve the highest international standing and domestic credibility for its independence and remit. Accordingly, the general scheme of the Bill provides for an independent selection process to nominate people for appointment to the new commission and for their appointment by the President following the passing of a resolution by both Houses of the Oireachtas. For this reason, the general scheme of the Bill also strengthens the powers and functions available to the new commission, introduces a new role of supporting public bodies in having due regard to equality and human rights issues in their work and creates a sliding scale of possible interventions and powers.

As the Senator has highlighted, the new commission's resources, used effectively, efficiently and strategically, will be one of the key factors in its successful establishment and future operation. The working group set up to advise on practical issues in the merger recommended that the new commission, as a priority initial task, undertake a review of its staffing needs to compile the evidence for a business case to meet essential additional staff needs it may identify, over and above the staff complements of the existing two bodies which will transfer to it. The annual financial allocation for the new commission will fall to be determined in the light of the budget for the relevant years and be announced in that context in due course. The Minister cannot pre-empt the budget. While stressing the seriousness of the fiscal situation we face and the severe staffing constraints that apply across the public service, he has asked me to reiterate his openness to have such a business case examined by the Department in as favourable a light as possible, even in current circumstances. In significantly streamlining the complex governance arrangements of the agencies which comprised two chief executives and up to 16 board members of the Equality Authority and a 15 member commission, projected savings are in the region of €500,000 per annum in related expenditure. It is the Minister's intention that this money will be available to support the core work of the new commission.

The Government is confident that the high standing and reputation the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Authority have each achieved internationally will be maintained by the new body. The question of its accreditation is a matter for the new commission to pursue and the ICC to assess in due course. The package of legislative proposals set out in the general scheme, as published, is a very strong foundation for the new commission. The Minister's intention is that the Bill will be published and enacted in the course of 2012. The question of resources will come into focus when the new commission prepares its assessment of its staffing needs.

As the Minister indicated, the selection process for the new commission will commence shortly and the persons selected by the independent selection panel will be appointed to the boards of the existing bodies in order that the two organisations can start to operate as a cohesive whole, with a transition programme being prepared and put in place. Therefore, the two boards, operating as one unit, can commence preparing a strategic plan for the new body and that work can be taken forward rapidly in the staffing review and other preparatory work envisaged in the working group's report.

I again express my appreciation and that of the Minister to the Senator for raising this topic which is of great importance not only to the Government but also the entire country. The Minister is keen to raise public awareness of the merger proposal and what it will involve, as well as the opportunities it offers in facilitating further public engagement on the broader human rights and equality agenda in Irish society. For this reason, as he announced last week, he has asked the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality to examine the general scheme and engage in a further focused consultation process with civil society and other interested parties on the entire range of important issues related to the establishment of the new commission. Debates such as this help to ensure the public is fully aware of what we intend to do.

Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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I welcome the statement that there is an intent to level up powers and functions in the new commission, as there was huge concern on the part of the two bodies that there would be a levelling downwards rather than upwards. The Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality, of which I am a member, has been asked this week to review head 13. May I take it that the saving of €500,000 per annum will be made through consolidation of the commission's expenses? For clarification purposes, what does the Minister mean when he says he is looking for a business case to provide whatever additional resources are required?

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Each Department, irrespective of the additional resources sought, must make its case to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in a businesslike fashion. That is the Minister's intention. We are all aware of the difficulties encountered in the two organisations as a result of the reductions in funding. For example, there were certain projects they would have wished to undertake but could not do so because of a lack of resources in terms of expertise. We understand there will be certain areas within the new commission in which there may be a lack of expertise. That is what the Minister is talking about. In the event that there are gaps in the organisation he has said that if a case is made to him, he will ensure it is looked on in as favourable a light as possible.

Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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The Minister of State's response is very helpful. It is important to stress the gaps in expertise, particularly those related to the exercise of the functions set down in the legislation, as distinct from additional projects and other matters. The bodies in question must exercise their functions to be effective and independent and ultimately to comply with the Paris Principles.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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As the Senator who submitted the second matter is not present, the Minister of State may be excused.