Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach as ucht deis a thabhairt dom labhairt ar son an rún seo, a bhaineann le hábhar ríthábhachtach. Tá mé an-bhuíoch go bhfuil an Aire é féin sa Seanad chun na ceiste seo a phlé.

I welcome this opportunity to raise on the Adjournment the absence from the schools building programme 2012-16 of Eureka secondary school in Kells and O'Carolan college in Nobber. Details of the Government's schools building programme were announced the other day by the Minister for Education and Skills. In so far as they went, I was pleased but quite a number of schools on the list are complete or practically complete. In fact, the only school in north County Meath on the list is Moynalty, which is practically complete.

Two major schools in north County Meath, which were to go into architectural planning - Eureka secondary school in Kells and O'Carolan VEC college in Nobber - were not on the list announced by the Minister. Both these schools are fantastic institutions in their own right and both come very high up in the school league tables, whatever one may think of such tables. They are two rural schools and would greatly benefit from new school buildings. They need such buildings to cater for the expected increase in population in their catchment areas, as well as dealing with current demand.

The previous Government announced extensions for Nobber and a new building for Eureka, which is the only all girls' school in north County Meath. O'Carolan college is one of the few rural second-level schools of its type in north Leinster. In January, I raised the case of Eureka as an Adjournment matter. I was quite pleased with the reply and thanked the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, for the positive progress that was being reported from the Department. I was happy to welcome the announcement and everything seemed fine until the school did not appear on the list. Perhaps the Minister can now outline to the Seanad why Eureka was not included in the programme announced on Monday. Why are both Eureka secondary school in Kells and O'Carolan college in Nobber absent from the list? These buildings are needed and local people want to know why they have not been included on the list. I know the Minister has a get-out clause in his statement which says that some projects might fall off the list while others might be added. We do not want "ifs" of "buts" however. The people of the area require absolute clarity concerning the Minister's plans for those school buildings.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to thank the Senator for raising the matter, as it provides me with an opportunity to clarify the current position in relation to the application for a new school for Eureka secondary school, Kells, County Meath, and an extension to the O'Carolan college in Nobber, County Meath.

The Senator may find it helpful if I set out the context within which decisions relating to meeting the accommodation needs of schools must be considered over the coming years. Total enrolment is expected to grow by around 70,000 students between now and 2018 - that is, by over 45,000 at primary level and 25,000 at post primary. Second-level enrolment is expected to continue to rise until at least 2024.

In order to meet the needs of our growing population of school-going children, the Department must establish new schools as well as extending or replacing a number of existing schools in areas where demographic growth has been identified. The delivery of these new schools, together with extension projects to meet future demand, will be the main focus of the Department's budget for the coming years.

The five-year programme which I announced on Monday last, will provide over 100,000 permanent school places, of which over 80,000 will be new school places - many in existing schools which have got whole new school buildings. The remainder will be the replacement of temporary or unsatisfactory accommodation. Last week, I announced €35 million to go to that particular replacement of prefabs.

In view of the need to ensure that every child has access to a school place, the delivery of major school projects to meet the demographic demands nationally, will be the main focus for capital investment in schools in the coming years. The five-year programme is focused on meeting those demographic needs. In that context, it was not possible to advance all applications for capital funding concurrently.

In the case of the Eureka secondary school in Kells, the brief for the project is to provide a new school for a long-term enrolment of 800 pupils. The current enrolment at the school is 738. The next step will be the tender process for the appointment of a design team.

With regard to O'Carolan college, the brief is to provide an extension and refurbishment to cater for an enrolment of at least 500 pupils. The current enrolment in the school is just over 500. The process of appointing a design team for the extension project is now almost complete. In other words, both schools are still in the process.

School building projects in architectural planning, including the new school project for Eureka in Kells, and the extension project for O'Carolan college in Nobber, will continue to be advanced incrementally over time within the context of the funding available. However, in light of current competing demands on the Department's capital budget, it is not possible at this time to give an indicative timeframe for the progression to tender and construction of the projects.

I wish to thank the Senator again for having raised this matter.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is bitterly disappointing that not one iota of hope is being given to these schools. I welcomed the announcement on Monday in so far as it went, and I also welcomed the prefabs announcement last week. When I saw the list of schools, they need and deserve them, but it is a continuation of previous policy, which needs to be acknowledged.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is, because many schools in County Meath-----

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In fairness, the Senator should ask a supplementary question so that the Minister can respond to it.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I just want to respond to the Minister. Many schools in County Meath got prefabs replaced in recent years, and I could name them. However, the Minister's response is bitterly disappointing. I accept the demographic issues but I hope there was no politics involved in the decision-making because rural north Meath was completely left out even though there are demographic issues there. I may raise this issue again on the Adjournment next week, if I can confirm that St. John's and St. Paul's schools in Drogheda have been kept off the list. If so, I will launch a major protest because it would be pure politics and a terrible decision. I have yet to confirm that, but they do not appear to be on the list.

It seems to me that the Minister is looking after areas where the Labour Party might do well. That is my suspicion.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is not the case.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is ridiculous.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Fianna Fáil were accused of being political over many years.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is not a debate. We have to deal specifically with the matter on the Adjournment. I have given the Senator an opportunity to put a supplementary question and the Minister is waiting to respond.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have made my point.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am quite happy for the Senator to debate this matter at any stage. I would remind him, however, that I am following the good practice of his colleague, the former Minister, Noel Dempesy, who published for the first time a complete list so that there was no politics involved, making eejits out of schools and their communities by saying "Yes, we will promise you a school". The Senator will recall that Noel Dempsey published such a list. His successor, the former Minister, Mary Hanafin, took it down on the instructions of the former Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern. As a result, Mary Hanafin promised three times the amount of money that could be spent, as I was informed by the former Minister, Batt O'Keeffe.

I got this final list on Friday last and it was published on Monday afternoon. There was consultation with various people but there is no political shopping list attached to this. Schools are getting places and accommodation on the basis of a growing population. We currently have 500,000 primary school children and 351,000 secondary school pupils in the system, some of whom are in the Visitors' Gallery. Some 70,000 more are going to be here by the time those currently in first year are doing their leaving certificate examinations. My big nightmare is that young people will be looking into a field, rather than into a school-yard. For that reason, I am prioritising demographic demand.

If the Senator reads the text of my reply, he will see I said that in real terms a secondary school should be a minimum of about 800 to provide the necessary cover in terms of subject choice, etc. The schools to which the Senator referred do not seem to be in that particular space, but they are being brought to the point where they will be ready to go on site with the necessary designs done, if we have the money and the demographic pressures to endorse it. However, there will be no politics in the allocation of moneys for schools. It will be driven by demographic demand because Ireland is a healthy country in respect of its school population. Furthermore, where possible, schools could amalgamate or even collaborate at second level to come together to provide critical mass in order that young girls in particular could take subjects such as higher level mathematics, science and a host of other things that traditionally have been denied to them and career choices thereby cut off from them. I also would support that.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have gone way over time.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That last assertion does not apply to Eureka secondary school in Kells or O'Carolan college in Nobber. As for the former, I acknowledge the previous Government announced it and put the project forward towards architectural planning-----

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

But made no money available for it.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes. However, last January, the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, responded to an Adjournment matter in this Chamber on behalf of the Minister and reconfirmed the position. She gave great hope and encouragement and at the time I was delighted and welcomed that.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Incidentally, this has gone way beyond a normal Adjournment debate and has become a major debate. One would hope a motion can be tabled on this matter. I apologise for being obliged to interrupt.