Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We all join in welcoming the deputy mayor. I commend the motion before the House. I am a resident of Waterford. We had a similar debate in this House on 14 September. There is no doubt that the latest situation in TalkTalk is deplorable. More than 575 workers and the people who service those workers such as cleaners, caterers and others have been treated in an appalling way. It is an absolute disgrace. I hope the Government will take the necessary steps to ensure that this type of behaviour will not be tolerated from any company operating in the country.

We need to look at the terms of reference for Enterprise Ireland and the IDA. We must look at State grants vis-À-vis indigenous industry and foreign direct investment. I know a company that is in a similar situation to TalkTalk. TalkTalk and AOL before it received millions of euro in grant aid from the IDA and the indigenous Irish company which set up in the same period and employed as many people received approximately €400,000 in grants from Enterprise Ireland. That is not a level playing field. This should not happen in this day and age. There is a need for a root and branch examination of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland on how they administer grants and how they operate to assist companies, not alone in Waterford but throughout the length and breath of the country. I have had e-mails from small and medium enterprises, indigenous Irish industries who have problems similar to the one I have mentioned. The issue will have to be addressed. We must support our indigenous industries. We need to attract foreign investment but the indigenous industries must operate on a level playing field with those coming in.

Reference was made to the globalisation fund which is a good fund. We must ensure the employees of TalkTalk avail of that fund. However, that is seven or eight months down the road for these unfortunate people who are made redundant. One has to go through the experience of being made redundant in order to realise what these people are going through. They are a young educated workforce, well capable of operating in many areas throughout the economy. I was made redundant in 1997. To look at a situation after 23 years and how one will access one's benefits and so on is a daunting task and not one I would wish anybody would go through. Perhaps things have improved significantly. When one is unemployed one is looking into a black hole and at a situation where one's earning capacity is quite good and, suddenly, one is going on to benefits. One wonders how one can pay one's mortgage and educate one's young children like many of the 575 workers in TalkTalk. Numbers mean nothing to these people. These are all individuals who are facing those problems. We need to have policies that will encourage innovation, which the Government is trying to do in its jobs initiative and in other areas.

Before I conclude, however, I must make reference to the local news in the Munster Express last week which suggested that "South East Silicon Valley" was mooted for the Waterford Crystal site. The Waterford Crystal site is adjacent to Waterford Institute of Technology and there is a suggestion that one of the colleges in Cambridge University intends linking up with WIT to form a university. The Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge has proposed a development which will be worth over €300 million. The Munster Express article goes on to state that it is estimated that over 420 permanent jobs could be created if this proposal goes ahead. It is based on an academic science park being developed in such areas, a model which has proven successful in Sweden and Brazil. The article also suggests that it is likely that the Government is already aware of the proposal given that one of the firms involved in the project finance is a London firm which regularly deals with the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation.

Is the Minister aware of this project? What progress has been made on it? I know that is a difficult question to ask the Minister, especially when negotiations may or may not be going on in this regard. However, I hope the Minister would give some hope to the people of Waterford and the south east. As I outlined previously Waterford is the blackest spot in Ireland in regard to unemployment. We have a potential 20% unemployment rate in Waterford city. That is appalling, and the south east as a whole has an 18% unemployment rate. We must get our act together in the south east. I want to know from the Minister the progress that has been made in regard to the announcement he made when he came to Waterford on the task force but also in regard to gathering the necessary information to progress Waterford and the south east as a good place in which to do business, which is the case. We have a very positive chamber of commerce in Waterford. We have a very positive city manager and city council. They need to be helped to progress the projects they have in hand at this time. I invite the Minister to respond to those matters in a positive manner and, hopefully, we will have good job announcements into the future in Waterford and the south east.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I compliment Senator Maurice Cummins on the empathy he showed this morning based on his own experience of being unemployed. I mentioned previously on numerous occasions the transformation in people that we saw when we started Lir Chocolates in East Wall during the previous recession. Generally speaking a person who is unemployed has no self confidence. It is not just about the money. It is about the social intercourse. They have somewhere to go every day and other people to talk to. It is not self praise but one of the greatest contributions people can make is to create employment. A total of 250 people are employed in Lir Chocolates in Navan today. They cannot keep up with business. We started up during the previous recession. Even in the middle of a recession there are opportunities if one applies one's mind to it.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for this opportunity to respond. I thank Senators Denis Landy and Ivana Bacik for tabling this motion.

I share the shock at the way this matter was handled. Several members of Government went on record to express their horror at the way matters were handled. Very exceptionally, the IDA also indicated that in its experience this was completely out of character with what was normal behaviour by companies who, as was said, had been supported by Government.

I will examine the issue of extending the period of cover. None the less, it must be said that this was an exceptional case. The instinct to an exception should not be to create a new law that could be perceived, interpreted and presented as being very restrictive or undermining the pitch we have. This was definitely an exceptional approach by any company. The standard approach is like that taken by Johnson & Johnson and, as Senator Mary White said, that ample time is given to the IDA to examine the options, for workers to consider their options and for opportunities to promote a facility to alternative employers. We all live in the real world. We know that businesses, for one reason or another, move on. Things change and companies have to make changes. The issue is how we handle that and how the IDA, as an agent of Government, is respected and given the opportunity to find alternative employment and uses for a facility. The immediate instinct is to change the law dramatically and put measures in place. We need to examine the pros and cons of that but I will closely examine that request.

The point made by Senator Landy about Merck Sharp & Dohme and the educational mismatch was well made. We have a challenge here, and it extends well beyond my brief in that many of the new employment opportunities which are undoubtedly coming to a small, export-oriented country, whether they be through IDA companies or Enterprise Ireland, EI, companies, are increasingly seeking analytical, software and engineering skills, which perhaps in recent years, because of the property bubble, were inclined to drift away. I do not want to make adverse comments on legal or other professions that grew but a small open economy that needs to make its living by trading has to examine the educational underpinnings of that. All of us, whether it be as parents, pupils, teachers or policymakers, need to take that on board.

With regard to availing of the globalisation fund, I have alerted my colleague in the Department of Education and Skills to this matter and this is an opportunity to avail of it. It is handled by that Department. MEPs have been in touch with me and we will explore that fully.

An issue raised by Senator Landy and others is whether there is a level playing field between indigenous companies and IDA companies. A level playing field operates. The reason they were separated in the first place is that typically the need of an indigenous company and the need of a multinational are entirely different. Multinationals do not come looking for our help to find export markets or help with their marketing or product development. That is not what they generally come here for. They have ready-made strengths in many of those areas. The reason EI was developed separately and given a different suite of policies was because indigenous companies have different needs. They need start-up money, management support and support to enter export markets for the first time. There is a different suite of policies in place and comparison cannot be directly made between the two. However, in the case of call centres, for example, the policy has been that they will only be supported if they are creating a new market or playing into an export market. A call centre solely servicing domestic needs is not likely to receive grant support because of the displacement argument. Where an indigenous or an overseas company is opening up a new market, it becomes eligible for support. I am assured by the agencies involved that there is a protocol between the IDA and Enterprise Ireland that the same principles and levels of support apply, but it is based on whether the market being opened up is a new market for the country or whether the company is simply competing for an internal market. That is the distinction drawn in the policy. However, I will respond to the Senator's concern.

The point made about self-employed cover is well made. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, is examining this issue in the context of the commission she has established.

The issue of the IDA and its deployment of resources obviously arose in our discussions in Waterford. Mr. Barry O'Leary who was present stoutly maintained that the IDA was not downgrading Waterford in any sense. It has an office there with five staff and the previous regional manager is working within the area. Staff are deployed with reference to both the regional and the sectoral strengths. The change in the IDA for many years has resulted in more people being put on the front line, working with companies with particular specialties to support them in selling abroad or in opening up new opportunities. This involved a change in regional structures which had traditionally been more geared to the local economy and advance factories. The changing environment in which it operated changed the thrust of policy.

The agency's decisions are made on the basis of the best use of its resources to win employment opportunities for all the regions. It has a mandate, whereby 50% of employment opportunities should be created outside the Dublin and Cork regions. The reason we decided to draw up a south-east employment action plan was that Waterford was not doing as well as it should be within that mandate. That has been very clear, not only in the unemployment figures, but also in the figures for employment growth in the area. We must examine why that is the case and whether we can better manage our portfolio of companies. There was criticism when we were in Waterford that the level of contact and support for indigenous companies was not sufficient. Therefore, we must examine this issue. We are looking at what can be done across the board and assessing the strengths of the south-east region.

I reject Senator Cullinane's view that we are in some way hollowing out legislation. The reason we have reformed the joint labour committee, JLC, system is simply that the system was designed in the 1940s when there was a completely different environment. We must have legislation that supports the challenges of a modern economy. This has been recognised in many ways. Some of the elements built into it were anomalous and nobody would defend them. The reform agenda was drawn up by people with immense experience in this area. The call for radical reform came from experts in the field. This is not some sort of-----

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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That is not the reform I was talking about. It is a question of whether people will end up with less money in their pockets. Sunday premium payments are being removed. That is the issue I was discussing.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister to continue, without interruption.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The issue is to design a system that will be appropriate to the challenges we face-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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And to be fair.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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-----and the legal framework must be such that it can be. That is the reason we are doing this. It has nothing to do with hollowing out legislation.

I agree - Senator Bacik also agreed - that nobody wishes to pay taxpayers' money to senior bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank. However, the situation the Government inherited was such that a great deal of money had been paid out on foot of guarantees.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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It was an unguaranteed bond.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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The bank guarantee was supported by Sinn Féin.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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It is an unguaranteed bond.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Sinn Féin supported it.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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The Labour Party is paying out the money. It is writing a cheque for bankers.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister to continue, without interruption.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Under the strategy the Government has articulated, we have restructured the banking system. We have pillar banks which have proper capitalisation ratios. They have low loan-to-deposit ratios and can be turned into engines to lend into the domestic economy. We have developed a banking solution and although it was signalled that we might require €24 billion to deal with it, the figures are now much lower because the Minister for Finance renegotiated the deal with subordinated bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and secured new investment. That has been a success. The stress tests applied by the Government have been found to be robust. We have renegotiated the terms of the deal with the European Union and the IMF and in the long term that will be worth billions in savings to the taxpayer. The strategy adopted by the new Government must be seen in its totality. It is one that has been seen to re-establish credibility in the economy. Of course, one can say we should have done this or that, but the complete strategy which has been deftly handled by the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has delivered results.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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We can have that debate in five years time and see whether it has delivered.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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We can agree to differ.

I must admit to Senator Cummins that I have not seen the report in The Munster Express which he mentioned, but I will investigate it. I have noted the point the Senator made about MFG and will respond to it. Obviously, it involves workers who have been left high and dry. They have rights through the National Employment Rights Authority which must be asserted. The reforms we are seeking are not intended to hollow out employment rights, as the Senator suggested, but to make them and industrial relations services more accessible and to ensure people are not driven into expensive disputes when compliance and early intervention could secure a better result.

In response to Senator White, we met representatives of Bank of America when I visited Charlotte and we had a fruitful discussion with them. Clearly, this is still at an early stage. The bank is seeking to sell the business as a going concern, which is also our objective. It has ensured the IDA will have full access to the process in terms of being able to promote and sell Ireland to any prospective buyer. The buyer will see the full range of the package on offer and the merits of remaining in Carrick-on-Shannon and maintaining the operation intact. In one sense, it was a fruitful meeting. We have access at the highest level in the company and its representatives are very committed. As the Senator outlined from her own experience of the culture of US companies, they were very supportive and understood their responsibilities to the workers in Carrick-on-Shannon. I was pleased with the meeting, albeit against a background in which the sale of this operation obviously contained threats which nobody could downplay. Much depends on buyers in these instances, not sellers. However, we have secured the maximum input into this process which I hope we can turn to good advantage.

They were the main points raised that required a response. I know Sir Terry Leahy. In the presence of another supermarket magnate, I am reluctant to get into------

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Retail rock stars.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I happened to bump into him because he supports Everton.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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That is correct.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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At the time Everton had a tie-up with Home Farm, where my son plays. Clearly, he is an immensely practical and down to earth character, given that he is the leader of such a huge company. However, I will not get into things that might be perceived as being anti-competitive.

I thank the Senators for their contributions. I do not wish to underestimate the task faced by the Government. We have seen 350,000 jobs wiped out, many of which were held by young people. We are spending 40% more than we raise in revenue. This has nothing to do with the banks. It is a constraint no prudent manager of our affairs can ignore. We must, therefore, combine radical reform in the way we manage the public finances with creating opportunities for growth and enterprise which are ultimately the drivers of job creation.

The general shared view here is that employment is the main social challenge we face as a community. We may differ about the tactics or strategy and although I am happy to defend what we are doing I am also happy to take on board suggestions from people who do not share our views. I will listen to views where they can fit in a prudent approach to these challenges.

Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent)
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I will pick up on the Leader's earlier comments. I was educated in Waterford and absolutely love the place. I empathise with the employees of TalkTalk and all the other companies which have gone in recent years. I was interested in The Munster Express observation and the opportunity that lies there.

If I may be so bold, there is a brilliant and inspirational entrepreneur called John Hartnett in town next week and the Minister will open his "Silicon Valley Comes to Ireland" event. I was going to ring Mr. Hartnett as he is a golfing pal and is over for the global forum in Dublin Castle. He is a big Limerick fan so I might hurt his feelings by saying that I get the feeling that he puts all his efforts into Silicon Valley. I was at the Shelbourne Hotel last night and the Taoiseach gave an uplifting and motivating speech on the Irish diaspora. We could give Mr. Hartnett a brick wall - the wider the better - because he loves to go through them. I would ask Mr. Hartnett to take on board the suggestion of Senator Cummins that we use the Waterford Crystal site. We could harness the energy of people like Mr. Hartnett and all his contacts in that amazing world. The Minister will have his ear next week so if he can hold on to it and tie him down, we would be more than grateful.

I have dealt with the IDA and Enterprise Ireland since 1992 as a business person. To support these bodies I would argue that they have changed with the times. People must get off their butts and use such services, and I have recently found that they have changed with the tough times. They are relevant and real to my company. I am about to receive the olive branch of becoming chairman of my company and there is a new chief executive officer coming in. He is a chartered accountant with a master's degree from the Smurfit Graduate School of Business. Enterprise Ireland has him and 19 other managing directors on a leadership for growth course in Lucerne now. He has told me it is the toughest process he has been through and it was a magnificent initiative by Enterprise Ireland. Although it was tough, all the leaders indicated they had new ideas from a global perspective of how businesses can be better run. I felt we slagged off Enterprise Ireland earlier but it also does brilliantly. It is up to business people to interact and challenge these bodies.

I welcomed the JobBridge initiative when it was introduced approximately 11 weeks ago. As a business person and concerned citizen of the State having witnessed the significant number of talented young people who lost their jobs on a daily basis, I thought it a magnificent initiative. I have advertised for some interns. Senator White mentioned Sir Terry Leahy and I wish he was still in Tesco. Did the company advertise for 200 interns for Christmas, when it is busier? That is not what the programme is for. At the behest of Enterprise Ireland I took on five master's degree students this summer in our company. There was much hassle although it was very rewarding. We prepared as a company for those people, meeting with the students every other day. Their projects were well mapped out and we made the experience very real and relevant. They have all written testimonials to me and I am grateful that they feel the experience will be relevant in their future careers.

We should examine the JobBridge again and look at the sort of companies taking on these interns. Perhaps there should be some boundaries or rules to safeguard people; there might be some methodology in the process. I do not mean any disrespect but a person does not need to be an intern to know how to stack shelves.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Fundamentally, I do not agree with the Senator.

Mary Ann O'Brien (Independent)
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Some companies are using the initiative as cheap labour, which is a terrible shame. We want action that is relevant for potential interns.

John Kelly (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister to the House and thank Senator Mary White for raising a matter with the Minister that I wanted to highlight myself, namely, the issue of the jobs in MBNA. I must ensure Senator White does not peep at my notes in future. I will not labour the point of these jobs because the Minister has dealt with it as much as he can. I urge him to leave no stone unturned in securing those jobs in some shape or form. The region surrounding Carrick-on-Shannon would suffer a devastating blow if the jobs were lost and I am not sure it could recover if no action was taken.

What kind of funding is available for IDA Ireland for enhancements that could be used to encourage companies and multinationals to come to this country? Companies, some of which are profitable, might stay here for five or six years before outsourcing to countries like India and Pakistan. I know the corporation tax rate is attractive but what brings such companies here and what drives them away?

Senator White mentioned that the cost to the Carrick-on-Shannon region would be approximately €28 million if MBNA were to close. There would be another cost for the taxpayer if 730 or 740 jobs were lost, amounting to €16 million per year. I do not know how much money Enterprise Ireland or IDA Ireland has at their disposal when encouraging companies to come here but we should bear in mind that if they do not throw enough money at companies, it will cost the taxpayer €16 million. Even if we had to tap into half of that amount to enhance our attraction to other companies, we should consider such a proposal.

I remember that a number of years ago my town of Ballaghaderreen lost 240 direct jobs with the closure of Dawn Meats, and ancillary employment was also lost as a result. I recall being in talks with the IDA about replacement industries for the town but the argument was that a town like Ballaghaderreen does not have the infrastructure that big companies want when setting up in locations in the west. Carrick-on-Shannon definitely has all the infrastructure that any company would need. I was told in the past that chief executive officers may be to some degree interested in what they can get for themselves and what towns like Carrick-on-Shannon can offer them and their families. That town has all the required infrastructure so there is no reason a company should not consider the nicest town in the west of Ireland.

The Minister mentioned the modern economy. As Irish people our unique selling point is our friendliness and ability to communicate. I do not believe we can do any course in the country dealing with communications, interpersonal skills and setting up businesses and industry in this country. I know the Minister will respond to that. Harvard University has modules dealing with happiness, which is lovely but not all that relevant.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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We should all do that.

John Kelly (Labour)
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Why are we not promoting tourism in China and India to a greater degree that we currently are given that those are the emerging markets? We need to reduce the red tape for Chinese and Indian business people and tourists to enter this country.

The Minister opened the Small Firms Association's conference yesterday and my brother was the keynote speaker following the Minister. At that meeting an entrepreneur said that the hoops he had to go through to arrange for his Indian business partner to come over here were shocking and embarrassing. He said that no such issues arise in travelling to the UK. Those are some of the issues that we need to examine.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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The Minister of State is welcome. I know his heart is in the right place because he and I have come across each other quite a lot in recent times. If I may, I will tell the Minister of State a little story. I met an Irishman on a plane a few years who was on the board of an American company which had received a proposal from one of its employees who had a new concept for a new task or new job the company could do. It would involve taking on 37 people and the board agreed to run with it. The Irishman on the board of that company asked what would happen if it did not succeed and the other members said that if it did not succeed they would let the new people go. It was very easy to start a company that would take on 37 people and I understand that company was successful in that respect.

I told that story because I agree entirely with the motion. I have no problem with it but I would sound a word of caution about the sections of the motion stating "proposes that greater protections be put in place for employees facing collective redundancy situations; and proposes the Government review existing legislation to consider that a longer notice period than 30 days should be provided by a company ...". If we put more constraints and restrictions on a person considering opening a business and say that we have certain rules and regulations that he or she must abide by, we will discourage some of those people from proceeding with businesses that might otherwise have opened. We should make sure that in trying to protect jobs, ensuring that proper notice is provided and doing all the right things, and our hearts are all in the right place on this, we do not discourage the creation of jobs. There was a danger of failure involved in the taking on of 37 people in the proposal put by that employee to the board, but we should not be afraid of failure. Let us be aware that we should not be afraid of failure.

Senator Mary White referred to an article I quoted this morning. It was a smashing article in yesterday's edition of The Times. It was so envious of us. A sentence I liked in the article reads: "Twitter's decision to base itself in Dublin is a blow for the UK." Another sentence read that both David Cameron and Boris Johnson may now be drowning their sorrows with whisky, not whiskey. I love that quote. The best quote of all was the one at the end of the article. I have given the newspaper to Senator White but the sentence referred to the story about the Scotsman, the Englishman and the Irishman, and the Irishman was smiling. There is no doubt he was because of what happened yesterday with news that Twitter will be opening in Ireland. The decision was made on foot of a battle against other possible locations. One of the reasons we are able to attract businesses here is that we are able to make it easy for a company to open a new business. That is foreign direct investment.

I know the Minister of State knows something of what is happening in Drogheda. RTE has put its heart behind exploring how it can manage to promote something that is good for Ireland and how it can create jobs. It is not creating jobs but encouraging an environment where jobs can be created. The new programme is titled "Local Heroes - A Town Fights Back" and it will not be broadcast until November. The town that has been selected is the Minister of State's town of Drogheda and many interesting things are happening there. I will refer to one of them that I found interesting. There are six experts coming in to help. One of them is Jerry Kennelly from County Kerry, whom Senators O'Sullivan and Daly would know well. Jerry Kennelly sold his business for something of the order of €150 million three or four years ago. He decided he wanted to stay in Kerry, although when talking to him last week he referred to "one of our companies in Silicon Valley". I asked him what he meant by that and he replied "We have a couple of companies in Silicon Valley." That gives members some idea of his success. He said he wanted to create, encourage and develop entrepreneurship at an early age in Kerry.

I was in Tralee last Friday when Jerry Kennelly had arranged for 600 transition year students to go there for Blue Sky Day. He brought 50 students from Drogheda - from Our Lady's College, Greenhills and the Christian Brothers. It was a very interesting day. These were all 15 and 16 year olds. They heard of people who were successful at a very early age. This was not foreign direct investment; these were young people who were setting up businesses. I will tell Members about one particular business. A young lady, Tara Hutton, from County Kildare went to a wedding last year. I met the young lady and she was wearing high heels and looked very stylish. She is now in fifth year. While she was at that wedding she stood on some confetti and her aunt said to her "I see you have got designer shoes." She said: "What do you mean?" Her aunt said "You have got those red soled shoes." She said "No I have not, there is a bit of confetti stuck to them." Because she was thinking entrepreneurship she set up a company. She is only in fifth year and at 16 years of age she now has customers in 22 countries. She is selling a pack of coloured soles one puts on the soles of one's shoes for €17.99. We talk about entrepreneurship, whether it be Senator Mary White or Mary Ann O'Brien, and it is great to see the number of entrepreneurs we have in Ireland. What Jerry Kennelly is encouraging is for people to become entrepreneurs at a very early age. That was only one of the stories. I could continue for hours. What I am essentially saying to the Minister of State is that I am enthusiastic about what can happen.

Another man called Noel Toolin is looking after the tourist end of the market down there and he said we have got great tourism in the Boyne Valley but people do not associate Drogheda with it so we want Drogheda to be the bedroom of the Boyne Valley. It is a simple enough concept.

The reason I am going to some pains in highlighting these examples is that we must make sure that working is more attractive than all the other benefits one can get. In the good times we were reasonably generous, understandably, to people who fell on hard times but we now have a problem in regard to some of those cases in that it does not pay some people to work. We had a debate on this matter last week and a debate on it the other day at the enterprise committee. I mention it because we have a concern. We must encourage people to set up businesses and not discourage people from staying out of work because they cannot afford to come to work. I would say to all speakers, including the proposers of the Sinn Féin motion, that it is worthwhile having this debate today. We should do more of it. I encourage the sort of thinking that is emerging today to make sure that we develop businesses but we should not ask somebody else to do it, we should do it ourselves.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome the debate on this motion. When job losses such as those in Waterford are suffered in any area, it hits the area hard. With the loss of these jobs following the major job losses at Waterford Crystal the blow is that much harder and it is more difficult for people in the area to cope with the loss. It is important that we prioritise job creation in that area and that a comprehensive programme is set up to encourage companies to come into the area.

I wish to refer to the European globalisation fund. I happened to be in the European Parliament when Dell announced the closure of its operation. I sought a meeting with the European Commissioner and got a meeting within three days of that announcement. The globalisation fund was only aimed at providing funding to an area where jobs were lost to countries outside Europe and there was a loss of more than 1,000 jobs. We sought to get the regulations changed. In the case of Dell, the jobs were being lost to Poland. We complain a good deal about Europe and the delay in it reacting to a situation but within six weeks the changes we sought were made. It was accepted that the jobs no longer had to be lost to countries outside Europe before an area would qualify for the training grants. When Waterford Crystal announced its closure the number of jobs lost did not amount to 1,000. In real terms there was such a loss but there were not 1,000 jobs lost in the company. We secured an amendment to the regulations such that the fund could be applied to an area which lost 500 or more jobs. That shows how the European Union was able to react to the changes that were required in order that an area would benefit.

The third change was getting the requirement whereby Europe contributed two thirds of the funding, with the Irish Government contributing one third. It is extremely important that an immediate application is made to the globalisation fund for Waterford, more so than for any other area due to the substantial job losses that have occurred there in the last few years. It is also important that we learn from the mistakes that were made in Limerick with the administration of the fund. Although I did not hear the particular programme I understand that Mr. Denis Ryan spoke about that issue on the radio during the week. He is a former employee of Dell and was very involved in the administration of that fund. There should be consultation with people such as Mr. Ryan to ensure we can use the fund effectively in Waterford so people can get real training, be encouraged to set up their own business if they wish to do so or, if another business is coming to the area, be given the training and assistance required. It is a great opportunity to use the fund and ensure there are benefits from it for the employees.

This type of blow causes huge disillusionment. One often finds in companies such as this that both partners in a household are working for the company, which means it is not just one household income that is lost but both. Alternatively, there might be two or three children from the same family working in the company and it has a devastating effect on the family in terms of the support they provide, and on the local area.

The other issue I wish to raise, which I raised in the House this morning, is the interconnection between the UK and the US which is being put in place at present. There is a need for it to connect to Cork, which would service the entire west coast. Savings could be made through that interconnection. I refer to the Hibernian Express cable and the importance of Internet access. The Minister has just given me a press statement which I had not seen.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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A reply is being released at 4 p.m. today on that very issue.

Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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If it was released at 4 p.m., I just missed it. However, it is important for the area that we secure that type of upgrade in our access to international connectivity to bring it up to tier 1 and to make it more cost effective for companies located in Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway. There would be a huge benefit not just for the Cork region but for the entire west coast. I presume it would be a benefit to Waterford too.

This is something we should seriously pursue. It is important because when companies are locating here from abroad or when Irish companies are being set up they need to be able to access the international market. The international market is now so extensive that we are trying to open new markets in China so it is important that we can connect with those markets in an efficient manner. Time is of the essence as regards communication and that is the reason this project is so important. I urge the Minister to take this matter on board.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I am disappointed that the Minister, Deputy Bruton, is not here to hear yet another plaintive plea about MBNA like those made by my colleague, Senator White, and Senator Kelly, from the Roscommon-Leitrim constituency. However, I am sure the Minister of State, who is a former Member of this House, will convey our comments to the Minister, as is appropriate.

In the short time available to me I do not wish to repeat what has already been said as both Senator White and Senator Kelly have admirably put the case for continuing to support the workers in MBNA. However, I understand from recent meetings held by the staff that there is an increasing air of pessimism. This is inevitable and is much the same as would happen in any company where there is a threat hanging over the staff's future and nothing conclusive is emerging.

I cannot accuse the Minister because this is a commercial decision but I wish to record my appreciation and that of the workers, many of whom I know personally given that I live only eight miles from Carrick-on-Shannon, for the efforts he has made. First, he travelled to Carrick-on-Shannon to meet the workers. This was a welcome initiative. At least it helped to reassure them at a time of great anxiety in the immediate aftermath of the shock decision. Second, during his recent visit to the United States he took the time to meet senior executives in Bank of America, one of whom is of Irish descent. According to all accounts the Minister received a very positive response. The company reiterated that it was anxious to sell the company as a going concern. The Minister can do little else other than continue to pressurise.

Of course he, like any other Minister, does not need to be reminded that not only is it the Carrick-on-Shannon area that would suffer from the fallout of a closure but it would affect five counties. As all Members from rural areas would testify, the loss of jobs such as happened with the TalkTalk closure in Waterford has a far greater trickle down effect in areas such as Waterford and Leitrim than it would in a major conurbation like Dublin or Cork. The impact of each job loss on the economy can be increased by a factor of three or four. I hope and pray that Bank of America is successful in finding a buyer. Sadly, given that the banking system in Europe is tottering from crisis to crisis and that it would inevitably be a financial institution that would take over this bank, one can only hope there are venture capitalists who might enter the fray and see that Bank of America has an excellent workforce, the fact that it is in profit and that it is dealing primarily in an English speaking environment in the UK and Ireland. One can only hope and pray.

I again applaud the Government's decision to reduce VAT. According to industry sources, approximately 500 new jobs have been created in the restaurant sector in the last two months. That is an indication of the positive impact the VAT reduction has had. Our party leader made it quite clear when the party went into opposition that we would not oppose for the sake of opposition but that we would support the Government in the area of the job initiatives and where it would help the economy, be it local, regional or national. I intend to continue that philosophy as do my colleagues led by our spokesperson in this area, who has eloquently put forward our position in this regard.

I will not nit pick about the motion, particularly about the jobs initiative. It has received a somewhat mixed welcome but it appears to be working. The head of the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, ISME, Mark Fielding, is one of the world's great PR experts. If he ever left ISME, he could undoubtedly set up a consultancy on how to get one's name in the newspapers and one's voice on the television and radio. Well done to him for that as that is why he is in that position, but I do not necessarily agree with his comment that the jobs initiative is a failure. However, the comments from Youth Work Ireland, that training and education commitments are not sufficient to address the huge numbers of young people looking for work, and the live register report showing that 88,770 people under 25 years of age were signing on in August, show the scale of the problem facing the Government, particularly regarding those under 25 who are out of work.

I welcome the fact that, according to the Irish Examiner, the Government appears confident that it will win approval from the EU-ECB-IMF troika to use money saved in the forthcoming comprehensive spending review for the €1 billion initiative aimed at funding start-up companies and aiding small businesses. Perhaps the Minister will offer his opinion on that. It appears to be an interesting initiative. If €1 billion is set aside for a jobs initiative, it is an extraordinarily impressive amount of money in the current climate. It will be interesting to find out how the Government plans to expand the existing jobs initiatives. Perhaps it would also get rid of red tape.

I am sure that, like me, the Minister was told about, if he did not see, the appearance of the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, on "The Frontline" programme last Monday. To make a political point, I believe she was given a very easy ride when one contrasts the manner in which Fianna Fáil Ministers, who were attempting to do the same and to make the same efforts as the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton, were attacked to the point of nearly having things thrown at them before and during the election campaign. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, got an easy ride. However, while she did not offer any solutions she empathised with all the problems that arise in her Department. At the heart of the jobs initiative lies a bureaucratic tangle between FÁS and her Department. The jobs initiative is too important to those who are out of work for red tape to prevent them from finding meaningful employment.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
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I wish to share my time with Senator Moran, by agreement.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed. The Senators have three minutes each.

Marie Moloney (Labour)
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I join my colleagues in extending sympathy to the employees of TalkTalk and all those in Ireland who have lost their jobs in recent years, including at Aetna in Castleisland in my own constituency. I jointly proposed this motion because I have witnessed at first hand the shock and horror that people have experienced after losing their jobs. When a company moves abroad, it leaves a trail of financial hardship in its wake.

I am aware of many people who have encountered difficulties when they tried to claim redundancy payments and entitlements. In some cases when a company closes down or relocates abroad, workers will receive redundancy payments but this is not always the case. I am aware of small businesses which have told their employees they cannot afford to keep them on any longer. Some employees were let go on the spot while others were told they would be called back when work became available. In the vast majority of these cases the possibility of redundancy was not mentioned by the employers and it was left to the employees to chase their redundancy entitlements. If there is a dispute over redundancy, employees are covered by several Acts but the process of applying to the social insurance fund can take up to one year and, if contested, the application must go before the Employment Appeals Tribunal for a recommendation, which can take another year. If the employer went out of business it must submit its accounts to prove it is unable to make redundancy payments. The former employees are kept waiting all this time for their arrears of wages, overtime payments, pay in lieu of notice and holiday pay.

While I appreciate that the social insurance fund has been transferred to the Department of Social Protection, I am aware of individuals who have been waiting as long as three years for payments. This is not good enough. When one calls the Department and asks to be transferred to an official in the redundancy section, it is not possible to get through. Even filling in the requisite paperwork can cause problems because applicants are asked to provide the addresses and telephone numbers of companies that no longer exist. Where a company has gone into liquidation or receivership, applications for redundancy have now to be made to the liquidator or receiver.

If employees have at least 60 days' notice, they will have time to come to terms with the devastating news and investigate their entitlements. In some cases, deductions for health insurance, pension contributions and PRSI were taken from the employees but were not paid to the relevant bodies.

I ask that the Government consider introducing legislation that would ensure redundancy entitlements are paid within three to six months rather than cause further financial hardship for the families concerned.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I offer my sympathy to the employees of TalkTalk and all the families and workers that have experienced the terrible heartbreak of redundancy. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, will be familiar with the devastating blow to my own area of Dundalk with the announcement that 100 jobs are to be lost in the Vodafone call centre in the town. From being one of the most industrialised towns in the country, Dundalk has in recent years suffered a number of horrific job cuts and closures, including the downsizing of Xerox, the closure of McArdles brewery, PJ Carroll and job cuts at Harp Lager, Keytronics and ABB. The list goes on.

As a Border town, we are in constant competition with the lower VAT rates offered in Northern Ireland to seduce consumers away from doing their business in the town and surrounding areas. For a company to suddenly announce it is taking its business out of the country without due warning or redundancy packages is an insult to the loyalty of the staff who worked there, the town in which it was based and our country. For every job lost in these companies, another two are put at risk in the shops, restaurants and entertainment venues in the area.

Vodafone Ireland is a very profitable business. Last year it earned €120 million in profits from Irish people and a staggering €9.5 billion worldwide. Its CEO earns a whopping salary of €932,000 per annum in addition to bonus payments of €900,000. Vodafone's move to India and Egypt will probably save it some money but how can one measure the suffering inflicted on those who lose their jobs? I have met representatives from Vodafone on several occasions and most of them read about their fate on Facebook, which was insulting to them. Many of them will be forced to emigrate as a result of the decision. Their hopes and dreams have been reduced to tatters.

Some of the e-mails I received proposed alternative solutions, including one which suggested that it is time for Irish people to react to companies, like Vodafone, which transfer their business abroad by boycotting their services. In this way we would make our voices heard by these multimillion euro companies.

Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Labour Party Senators for giving us the opportunity to discuss this issue. Although we agree with much of the amendment proposed by Sinn Féin, my party will be supporting the motion because we do not believe the principles set out in it should be lost. Perhaps the issues raised by Sinn Féin should be the subject of a debate in their own right. I do not want to repeat what others have said about TalkTalk. The issue of MBNA was also substantially addressed by Senators from the north west. I have great faith in the Minister of State, his colleague, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, and his special adviser and my fellow county man, Conor Quinn, who is exceptionally talented.

I would like to see an audit of all IDA and Enterprise Ireland supported companies as a matter of urgency to assess the likelihood that they will encounter difficulties or relocate elsewhere. We could then take measures to ensure they do not consider a move and provide assistance if they require it to expand operations in this country.

From an IDA perspective, certain towns lack the infrastructure to support the expectations of particular companies. As a former CEO within the chambers of commerce movement, I am acutely aware of the meetings held with the IDA during the years in which officials stated it was an issue to do with connectivity, broadband, access and all the rest of it. I watched all of these matters being dealt with during the Celtic tiger years in many of the regional centres, but there still seems to be an issue. I wonder what is the level of grant indicated when it comes to a discussion with company A or company B in towns such as Ballaghaderreen or Carrick-on-Shannon and, in particular, the gateway centres such as Sligo, Letterkenny, Waterford and Galway because I am not convinced that it is what it should be to achieve the results we would like to see resulting in announcements in these areas. Clearly, companies will want to locate in Dublin; it is where they will want to be. We must make it more attractive for them, therefore, to locate in other places and explain why. If that means allocating an extra few quid at times, we must be open to doing this. The MBNA story was about a guy, a senior executive in the company, having connections with the part of the country in question. That is what helped to push the project over the line. We cannot depend on this happening, however, in Waterford, Sligo, Letterkenny and other parts of the country and need to be innovative in that regard.

As we look to the future, we need to look at entrepreneurship education. That is not to say we want everybody to be an entrepreneur in the most literal sense of the word and create jobs. However, there should be modules on entrepreneurship in all aspects of education. I wrote a paper with others on the introduction of entrepreneurship education from primary level on. It is about flexibility and a particular way of thinking. It is not necessarily about creating jobs but about developing an agility in one's life to to move, whether it be a thought process, physically or whatever else. It is not about being like Denis O'Brien or Senator Feargal Quinn. One can be an entrepreneurial librarian. I am sure we all hope Ronan O'Gara will be entrepreneurial with the ball on Sunday morning against Italy. It is an idea we presented to the then Minister and the Secretary General of the Department of Education and Science as it was called at the time. The difficulty within the Department and government was that there was a lack of agility; the concern was they would never be able to connect education and enterprise in the way they wanted. We need to stop thinking of government in terms of pigeon holes and see it as seamless. Departmental interaction needs to be seamless, without an agenda or difficulties with personalities or anything else. That is a challenge for the Minister and his colleagues, one I know he would like to overcome. He should not consider any of the barriers in front of him, he should merely go through them if he needs to in the interests of moving matters forward.

Of the indigenous sectors, agriculture is consistently seen as a burden. We meetings with the IFA and the lobby groups as such a burden. It is not. As somebody who for many years has been a beef exporter - I export 250 tonnes a week to 46 countries around the world - I am acutely aware of the levels of employment that can be created. While there was a lull period throughout what we would have described as the Celtic tiger years, the food industry is back in a major way and we need to seize its potential. Senator White has had a long career in it and shown what someone with an entrepreneurial spirit can achieve. If we could divert scarce resources from other sectors to the ones that can be most productive for us in terms of job creation, the food and agriculture industies are the ones we would pick. The Minister should not, therefore, see the agriculture indusry as a burden but seize its potential and the opportunity presented.

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for his indulgence. Another meeting at Farmleigh is being planned. The meeting a was good one. It highlighted the arts as having significant potential. Let us build on this. It was certainly a good start.

The bankruptcy laws need to be changed. That is not to salute or help those who have been in any way reckless in their business dealings. Considering the crash, there are many entrepreneurial brains, people who can create jobs whom we are sentencing to 12 years when they will not be able to use their brains to help us to help ourselves. We really need to look at this issue.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd. We have seen him a lot recently and it is a pleasure to have him back again with us.

My colleagues have set out well the purposes behind the motion and the real problems faced by the workers in TalkTalk, as well as by workers in other parts of the country who have also been faced with similar closures. However, behind the motion is a serious issue relating to the position in the south east, in particular, as a region. Senator Cullinane has mentioned some of the issues involved. Traditionally, the south east has not been seen as a particularly poor area. Historically, it has been associated with the glass industry, iron foundry and prosperous agricultural businesses. However, these industries have been in decline. Almost without a trace the south-eastern region has sank during the governance not only of the current Government but of previous ones.

It is not widely known, for example, that Wexford is the second poorest county in the country. This leads to additional issues for the workers of TalkTalk and others in the south-east region. It behoves the Government to go over and above for the people of the region because of the circumstances they are facing.

Aside from the issue of poverty which needs to be emphasised, there has been a failure of regional policy as reflected in the south east.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Aideen Hayden (Labour)
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There are numerous reports suggesting robust regional development which are languishing on the shelves of every Minister. The previous Government, among others, scatter-gunned industrial development and regional Government offices around the country which led to the failure of regional policy. A robust policy could have prevented the outcome faced by the TalkTalk workers in Waterford. It was manifestly a failure on the IDA's part to engage in the spread of investment witnessed in the past decade and a half rather than attempting to develop clusters of excellence that would have had the capacity to withstand the closures about which we are talking. There are plenty of reports available that demonstrate internationally that clusters of excellence have a far better chance of withstanding such closures.

There is a skills capacity problem in the south east and has been for some time. The mid-west, for example, has three times the number of third level places available than the south-east region. Successive Governments have failed to develop a technological university in the south east that would help to develop the skills necessary to develop a smart economy in the region. It is well known that students from the south east attend universities in other parts of the country and that there is a brain drain from the region. This is something I ask the Government to address as a matter of urgency.

It is critical, if the south-east region is to prosper, that three issues be addressed: the need for a proper regional policy, poverty in the region, and the lack of skills and third level university places. This is not merely an issue for Ireland. It is also one for the European Union. My colleague, Senator Moran, mentioned Vodafone's decamping to India and Egypt. Call centres are notoriously footloose and fancy free. It does not matter whether it is Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales or France, the European Union needs to have another look at its industrial policy. We must look at the future of industrial policy in Europe.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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I thank the Minister for being here. Let us face it, the way in which workers are treated nowadays is increasingly shabby, which, I think, was the word used by Senator Cullinane. When I turned on the television last night, I saw British Aerospace workers who had learned about the pending redundancies in the media. We have heard this story over and over again. That is the concern, that in an increasingly employers' world shabby behaviour becomes habitual.

I am slightly concerned to hear the Minister, Deputy Bruton, say that while the protection and enhancement of employment rights remain paramount, there is a need to ensure Ireland remains an attractive destination for foreign direct investment. The question now is what is attractive and what makes a country attractive to come to? Is it the money and tax breaks that Governments can give to entice foreign investment to a country at the expense of workers? We have seen with TalkTalk-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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That is ridiculous and outdated.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator without interruption.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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I am sorry. We have seen with TalkTalk how workers can-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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TalkTalk is an exception as the Minister has said.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator without interruption.

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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There is no doubt it is an employers' market and that workers' rights are in danger of being reduced. Senator White can shake her head but that is not the experience I have had or that of my colleague who spoke of people seeking their rights through redundancy taking months -----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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That is a different Department.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator without interruption.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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Who is chairing this meeting?

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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If we are discussing Ireland as being an attractive place to work and encourage inward investment, then we must ensure also that the protection of rights for workers is of paramount importance as well as the other attractions that can be offered. It is fair to point out as much. I am somewhat heartened by the Minister's letter today giving an update on the MBNA workers. While it will continue to be difficult, the Minister stated that the flexibility of the company is a considerable help in trying to find a replacement for it in Carrick-on-Shannon. We should welcome and highlight this flexibility because it is helpful where companies decide to redeploy if they can at least be flexible. That is not to say the problem is solved or all the other things that have been said here today about MBNA pulling out of Carrick-on-Shannon do not hold. It is difficult indeed but at least companies should recognise their responsibilities to workers. That is at the heart or the essence of the motion. As Senator Landy stated at the start of the proceedings, we seek to establish if we can at least extend the time workers have to adjust to being made redundant and perhaps extend the time to find a job.

We see JobBridge coming into place and we welcome it. The Minister stated on "The Frontline" that she is listening to the problems that are arising with JobBridge. She and her Department are well aware that there have been teething problems at the start but I believe she is listening and looking to correct some of the things that have arisen. Nevertheless, the fundamental basis of having a project such as JobBridge to assist people to find work and to get back into the marketplace and workplace holds.

These are good initiatives. Professor Colm Harmon at UCD has welcomed the initiative but has stated that it needs fine-tuning. Asking people to wait several weeks before they can get onto the scheme is one of the problems and I understand from discussing the matter with people that the website is difficult to get onto. Regardless, such measures are welcome as is the micro-financing project which the Minister, Deputy Bruton, will propose in the near future. That is the type of scheme we need for job creation and for some of those who will be made redundant from all kinds of places in the coming six months. At a time when it is easier to treat workers badly because jobs are so scarce it is important not to throw out workers' rights. It is up to us to ensure that every protection that can be given is given.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, to the House. This is the first opportunity I have had to propose a motion on behalf of my group. I am heartened by the response of Members today both for the support for the motion and for raising many important issues. I am positive about the response from the Minister. The Minister heard my opening remarks, those of Senator Bacik and many other Senators. Although I am not quoting him directly he suggested that he will look at the issue to try to extend the core period from 30 days.

It has been a worthwhile debate. It was also worthwhile in the context of the many important contributions from Members such as Senator Burke who referred to the importance of the globalisation fund and its relevance to the difficulty we have in the south east. Many lessons have been learned from what took place with the globalisation fund. Senator Burke in his former capacity as an MEP and me as a member of the Committee of the Regions were well aware of what was happening with Dell at the time, of the mishaps and the lack of knowledge of the then Government with regard to getting the best from the fund. I hope we can bring all the expertise together to ensure an application is ready. I understand the factory must be closed before the fund can be put in place. I remain hopeful that we can draw down most of the money and use it in the broadest way possible. That was a difficulty on the previous occasion. As is often the case in Europe, we were good boys and we kept a narrow parameter on what we believed we could do. When other countries got an opportunity they broadened it and I hope we will do the same.

I am pleased Senator Cullinane supported the motion but I am afraid we will be rejecting the amendment. It is fair to say that Senator Cullinane's party signed up to the agreement in 2008 on the guarantees.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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That is not true.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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An attempt to rewrite history will not happen.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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That is factually incorrect.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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We are not going to accept-----

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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That is incorrect.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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If I could continue without interruption-----

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator without interruption.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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If Senator Landy is going to tell mistruths that is fine.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator without interruption.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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The vote on 14 September is on the record of Dáil Éireann. If Senator Cullinane does not agree with me I will get him a copy of it.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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The Senator should read all Stages, including the Final Stage.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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Perhaps his memory has been erased in some way since he came to the House.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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No interruptions. No interruptions.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Senator Landy should learn how the system works.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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Senator Quinn commented that we should not put obstacles in the way of jobs. This motion does not intend to do so. I realise he made his comments with the best of intentions but this motion is about protecting people. At the outset I stated that I do not believe that any company coming here which is in receipt of handsome grants from the IDA and which is asked to sign up to something to ensure that workers get notice of 60 days rather than 30 days would reconsider coming into the country. In view of what the Minister, Deputy Bruton, stated this afternoon I am hopeful that we can see the 1977 legislation amended to increase the timescale. I look forward to the comments of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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Is the amendment being pressed?

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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It is.

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Ar 10.30 a.m. maidin amarach.