Seanad debates
Tuesday, 1 December 2009
Order of Business
2:30 pm
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business today is No. 1, motion re postponement of elections to the regional fisheries boards, to be referred to committee, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; No. 2, statements on pre-budget outlook, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1 and conclude not later than 8 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, on which Senators may share time by agreement of the House, with the Minister to be called upon ten minutes before the conclusion of statements for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons and leaders; and No. 3, Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill 2009 - Report and Final Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 2.
Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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In view of the appalling and traumatic circumstances facing so many individuals, families and communities as a result of the flooding, I ask that the Order of Business be amended to enable the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to be invited to come to the House today to give a report on the up-to-date position. Significant questions arise about delays in making insurance payments, when aid will be given to families and the response of the European Union. I know that Members on all sides want to hear from the Minister on a range of issues. Unfortunately, this will be an ongoing crisis.
Judge Yvonne Murphy is to be congratulated on her report and the clarity with which she presented her findings. The report should be regarded as a defining moment in the relationship between the church and State. Anyone who by their actions or inaction created a situation where children were raped and molested should not continue in their position and the report states clearly that this was the case. Condemnation is not enough. We must look to see whether children are now safe and whether audits are required in other dioceses also. The State needs to consider this question seriously, particularly in view of the audit undertaken recently by the HSE which showed that the State was not receiving the co-operation it had sought in the first instance and which had to be dragged from people at the time. Has the position changed?
People are stunned and appalled by the information contained in the Murphy report and we must ask if the State is now protecting children. I refer to the report of the Ombudsman for Children on young, unsupervised children arriving in the country who in many cases become fodder for the sex industry. Is this the way to protect children? This is what is happening to such children. I refer to the many examples where the HSE is unable to provide a 24-hour service when needed for children who are the victims of abuse and is unable to assign social workers or respond to children who need help. Assessment lists in child and family centres throughout the country are closed. What action will be taken by the State on behalf of children? I ask the Leader to arrange for the Ministers who will come to the House on Thursday to list the actions being taken by them, starting with the constitutional amendment on children and detailing the response to the other issues I have raised today. We have to start talking in realistic terms. This is not about pious hopes in looking after children but rather the action the State is taking to protect children at risk.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Three or four months ago I raised the issue of the Vatican's non-co-operation with the Ryan report and the fact that the role of the Vatican ambassador and the Vatican embassy should be called into question.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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Surely the up-front contempt with which the Murphy report was treated by the ambassador and the Vatican State at the very least calls for a re-examination of our relationship with the Vatican. The Vatican's ambassador to Ireland should be called to account. He should be called in by the Minister for Foreign Affairs to explain himself on this situation. It is the least we need.
I very much support Senator Fitzgerald's comments about the removal of people from office who were responsible, either through omission or commission, for the abuse of children. However, I have no time whatsoever for the calls by party leaders for the sacking of a bishop. It is not the business of politicians to interfere in the operations of a church.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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We have witnessed enough of that in communist China with the Falun Gong and in communist Russia's refusal to allow Christians to practise their religion. We reached the giddy limit this week in Switzerland where a referendum was held on whether minarets could be put on top of mosques. That is where such calls lead and it is not our business.
However, we need to examine our republican principles and where we stand. The problem of child abuse cannot and should not be cordoned off as a problem with one bishop. This is a systemic issue and, as politicians, our function and duty is to safeguard children and to make sure every religious and lay person is amenable to and subject to the law of the land. That is our job and if there is anything wrong with the law, we amend it to make sure that happens.
Scapegoating a bishop is not the answer. The religious hierarchy intersects with the structures of child protection in the education system. For instance, if a pupil makes an allegation of abuse against a priest, the matter is eventually dealt with by the school patron who in 95% of cases, and more than 3,000 primary schools, is the local bishop. The bishop with responsibility for the investigation of an alleged abuse of a pupil finds himself, therefore, in the conflicted position of being the line manager of the priest and the patron of the child. That cannot continue.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The first response to the Murphy report should be to ensure the hierarchy and bishops are removed as school patrons. That will not have an impact on Catholic education. Let Catholics elect their own people if they want to establish their own schools. If they want to appoint the local bishop or parish priest, that is their own business but the notion of a structure where systemically the local bishop is the patron of all the schools when he is also responsible for managing the priests of the diocese is not acceptable. We need to remove responsibility for the welfare of our children from the religious hierarchy.
I always notice when the participants come close to an agreement, as is the case in Government Buildings currently, others start outlining the difficulties of implementation. A few months ago, it was said a deal could not be done and agreement on savings could not be reached. This is on the point of being done. Let people sort out the implementation problems at structural level. These deals can be done and they can be made work.
Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I support the comments of Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole regarding the Murphy report. It is a shame we are not debating the report today when the rest of the country is but I am glad it will be debated in the House next Friday. The report makes for distressing reading. It has exposed the appalling inadequacy of responses to horrific rape and sexual abuse of children by both church and State authorities. I agree with Senator Fitzgerald that our debate should focus on the actions that need to be taken. As politicians, we need to examine legislation to ensure soft information on child sex abuse can be shared and to ensure mandatory reporting of suspicions of sex abuse. We have dodged that for a long time. The law on misprison of a felony has been amended in such a way that it seems bishops responsible for allowing and facilitating abuse to continue over many years and for children's lives to be destroyed in the process will not be capable of being prosecuted for any crime and that is a failing of ours, as legislators.
However, I take issue with Senator O'Toole because it is proper and acceptable when bishops have such an enormous role in the secular and civic institutions of the State for politicians to say whether they should resign where they have been found guilty of inexcusable behaviour in the cover up of priests who abused and continued to abuse. The language of cover-up and the language of mental reservation is the language of lying and deceit by any other name. We are entitled to call for resignations, particularly when bishops are still patrons in schools and still responsible in many cases for the running of hospitals, as pointed out by Senator O'Toole. Let us not forget that two chaplains of hospitals were named in the report as having been directly involved in abuse. There are children of all religions and none in Our Lady's Children's Hospital, Crumlin. It is absolutely inexcusable that we allow children of any religion to be victimised in this way.
We must also focus on the role of papal nuncio. I go further than Senator O'Toole in saying that it is time for the Minister, who has expressed doubts about the behaviour of the papal nuncio in treating the commission with contempt, to call in the papal nuncio and expel him if he cannot give a reason for the contempt with which he treated the commission's call for information. The bishops must wake up and smell the coffee. This is not a case of looking for heads on the plate, it is about seeking accountability and acceptance of responsibility for heinous crimes against children committed for many decades. It is not good enough that the bishops defend their own; they have missed the point. This is particularly true when they are so involved in secular society and when there are reports this week, as the Dáil is about to debate the Civil Partnership Bill, that the Catholic Church is lobbying against the legislation. That is inexcusable behaviour from a religious institution.
Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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In a week when the public service is coming under attack, as a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights I visited the new criminal courts complex on Parkgate Street. We must commend the Courts Service in particular and the public service in general for bringing on stream such an impressive building with a great improvement in facilities for victims of crime, the accused and members of the public. They are to be commended for this excellent building.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Today is a significant day because the Lisbon treaty comes into force. We should mark the occasion because the campaign was very successful and the vote on 2 October led the way as far as Europe is concerned to have 27 countries join the Union. I congratulate our Commissioner designate, Ms Máire Geoghegan-Quinn, on being appointed to the post of research and innovation, an important portfolio and one in which she is capable of achieving great results. She will benefit the country and as a Commissioner she will never forget her roots in Ireland.
I ask the Leader to invite the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, to come to the House to discuss the crisis in the legal profession. Today is the deadline for obtaining the right to practise insurance, which has increased from approximately €8,000 per year to €24,000. This will put many companies and individual practitioners in great difficulty. There are 2,227 practising solicitors in Ireland and over 1,027 are sole practitioners. They will find it very difficult in the current climate to rise to the suggestion made, which has been commented on by the Law Society director general Mr. Ken Murphy. Deep concern has been expressed by the industry today, the deadline, and many companies will not have professional indemnity insurance by today. There must be an extension. There have been difficulties in the profession because of the lack of transfers at the moment and the legal situation with buildings, to the extent that 800 of the 9,000 qualified solicitors are currently unemployed. A solicitor said to me today that this is a crisis for solicitors. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform must intervene because conveyancing has been reduced to nil and solicitors find it difficult to survive in this climate. They are paying high interest or high rent. I have no direct or indirect involvement in this regard but solicitors provide a great service and we should intervene in this regard.
Liam Twomey (Fine Gael)
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I want the Minister for Health and Children to attend the House to discuss the matter of the training of junior doctors in our acute hospitals. A recent report shows that the vast majority of negligence cases in our hospitals are the responsibility of the most junior doctors in our health care system. They do not receive adequate training and supervision. I seek a debate on this, especially in light of the fact there has been a massive drop in the number of applications for junior doctor posts. There is a risk that the level of expertise and experience of junior doctors could drop even further, leading to more adverse outcomes for patients in our health care system. I seek a debate on the issue as a matter of urgency.
On the clerical abuse of children, an issue about which everybody is talking, we should have a debate on what is happening in Irish society, in which children are still being abused. They are being abused in their homes, in some cases by their parents. The abuse is not always sexual; it can be physical or take the form of neglect. Social workers and others in the health service are unable to deal with the crisis. We will read of incidents of abuse in the next few years similar to those about which we read in the British print media of children dying at the hands of their parents or those of a partner of a parent because of neglect. We may look back at what happened during the past 30 or 40 years and the church's role in it, but what is happening in some houses today is equally as horrific and vicious and we are not facing up to such abuse. We are not putting in place the necessary resources to address it or give the necessary support to HSE staff who deal with such cases. We should have a debate on the issue as a matter of urgency, as otherwise we will be reading reports from retired social workers and public health doctors and nurses on the horrific abuses which happened in Ireland in 2009 and 2010, while we talked about something else. We need to debate the two issues together - what happened in the past and what is happening now - as they are equally important.
Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I support many of the points raised, starting with that raised by Senator Fitzgerald on the outcome of the Murphy report. I do not have answers, nor does anybody else. It is a pity institutions are being destroyed when it is individuals within them who should be targeted. We should have a debate on the issue when the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, should advise us on where we stand in this respect, how children are being protected in the education system, in schools and sports centres, and the issue of human trafficking. As there are many aspects involved, I would welcome a debate on the issue and an opportunity to be updated on how children are being protected.
An interesting study, the Slán lifestyle study, was carried out last week. It researched the topic of binge drinking, particularly among those under the age of 18 years. Such behaviour is becoming more prevalent as a result of high unemployment, stress and strain in families and abuse. A question that must be asked is whether we have a national alcohol policy? Do we have a national substance misuse strategy. These are the questions being asked. A debate on them would be welcome. I refer to high unemployment, stress and strain in families, how we protect children and family life, and the awful increase in the volume of alcohol consumption, particularly among those under the age of 18 years, referred to as binge drinking. I call for two debates: one on the how we protect children and the other on whether we should introduce a national alcohol policy. Such a policy should be covered in our schools. While there is a civics course, the education children receive in school is not transferred to broader society when they go home in the evening. I call for the introduction of a high level national awareness campaign on these issues.
David Norris (Independent)
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It is important in the light of the Murphy report and at this time of Advent to state clearly that the Christian message, with its gospel values of tolerance, compassion and love, is still vital and relevant, but it needs a visionary church or churches to implement it. We do not have this, rather we have a series of decaying bureaucracies. All of Christendom has been shamed by the behaviour of the hierarchy and priests. There is no doubt that the position of the papal nuncio must be called into question.
David Norris (Independent)
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Any person who puts the niceties of diplomatic etiquette above the welfare, safety and protection from rape of children has no place in this country as a representative of a Christian church. I say this because he is supposed to be a diplomat. I agree with my colleagues, some of whom have said there is a separation of church and State. It is not up to me to tell any bishop to resign, rather it is up to the people in the church to do so. However, as they act politically they must be challenged and the audit must be national. Every dioceses must be examined, out of decency for the suffering children. Are we to say we have done enough here and that children in this dioceses are not entitled to have their story recorded and their situation vindicated?
We need to call the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to account too. It is all very well for him to say that no church can be above the law, but the churches are above the law. This House placed them above the law in the particularly sensitive area of children in education. We gave them exemptions from the operation of equality legislation, something no Christian church in conscience should every have asked for. It was a disgrace at the time and only Senator Joe O'Toole and myself opposed it in this House, which is also reprehensible.
I do not simply blame the Irish hierarchy; this goes right to the top. I refer to successive Heads of State in the Vatican State, the various Popes, including this one, who protected a serial abuser of his own seminarians in Mexico by giving him sanctuary in the Vatican, his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who when Cardinal Groer had to leave his position expressed compassion for Cardinal Groer and studiously ignored the victims. This is the leadership they got. The one note of hope over the weekend was the comments from right wing commentators. I heard them on every radio station rowing as fast as hell to get away from the body of the decaying ecclesiastical system.
Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with the words spoken on the Murphy report. I believe structural damage has been done to the whole church. I welcome the full day debate organised for Thursday. It is a shocking report and following from the Ryan report, I do not believe this is the end of it. Other dioceses must be properly examined.
I put on record that I hold a deep feeling of sadness for the hundreds, possibly thousands, of priests and other religious who are damaged by this report. In my home parish, my local priest broke down and cried on Sunday because he was so hurt and pained. Although what took place was inexcusable and criminal, there are hundreds and thousands of good people, priests and nuns who are seriously damaged by these reports and I feel sorry for them.
I call for a debate on the area of the rights of children. Almost five years ago, while I was Chairman of the Committee on the Constitution, we came to the unanimous conclusion that the rights of the child as enshrined within the family clause of the Constitution were not adequate. We should hold a referendum or if that is not necessary, fast-track legislation. Never before has the need been so acute arising from the Murphy report and the rights of children throughout our society must be fully protected. The level of support within our Constitution must be upgraded one way or another.
I raise the old chestnut of a debate on the fishing industry. Shortly, our Minister of State with responsibility for fisheries will go to Brussels on his annual visit to try to protect the Hague preferences and to get quota for our fishermen. This is an annual event, somewhat like going with a begging bowl. Thanks to the Leader, it was planned to hold the debate in the House on the week our former colleague and Senator, Peter Callinan died. The debate was postponed. I do not seek to reschedule it before Christmas because time is too short. However, I urge the Leader to arrange for a debate on the whole fishing industry at the earliest opportunity in 2010.
12:00 pm
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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This is a terrible time for the people. I have reflected on the matter and there is a link between the flooding crisis that has befallen the people in the past week and the thousands of Irish children that have been abused by the church throughout the generations. The link is denial and neglect. The attitude was that if we do not talk about it, it might go away. In both cases, the Government has failed to put adequate solutions in place to prevent either occurrence from taking place again. With regard to child abuse, as of yet there has been no debate on the implementation plan for the Ryan report. There is no mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse yet. The child protection guidelines are still not on a statutory footing. This means that children remain at risk. There is a story in today's Irish Independent which appears under the headline "Cover-up clergymen to get off the hook". Is the Murphy report adequate in the context of its being used to convict those named as having abused children and individuals identified as having colluded in the cover-up of such abuse?
In recent days I witnessed the misery, despair and shock experienced by those affected by flooding. Many of these individuals fought against the floods on their own because State services were not adequate. Last week I asked the Leader the reason the Taoiseach had not mobilised the Army, which contains 8,000 people trained to provide assistance when natural disasters occur. However, I did not receive an answer. Why has the Taoiseach failed to mobilise the Army? Why was the fire service in Galway not utilised, particularly when it was used in other counties? What is going on? Do people not realise that abject misery and financial distress are affecting many?
How are individuals to access financial support, other than through the means-tested route or by seeking assistance from community welfare officers? What is being done is simply not adequate. The roads in front of people's homes have been completely destroyed. I look forward to hearing the Leader's answers to my questions.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader has allocated time for a debate later this week on the Murphy report. It will give us an opportunity to deal with the matter in more detail. It is evident that there is a great deal of anger and confusion. As a Roman Catholic, I must state this is not the church I know. My experience has been that it is a compassionate institution. We must focus on the victims and survivors. We will not do them justice if we become distracted. It is horrifying to think little children were molested in the way in which they were and to realise that their lives were completely ruined.
Anybody who subscribes to the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church will be aware of what Christ said about the concept of scandalising children. I do not wish to sound sanctimonious but it is on this tenet that the church is based. The church must embark on a mission of renewal. This would provide everyone with an opportunity to witness the terrible damage done by certain individuals, particularly those who occupied positions of trust. It would also provide an opportunity to show that it is not acceptable for such persons to hold such positions, either now or in the future.
I agree with Senator O'Toole who made a good point on furthering the concept of fairness and balance. Calls for the resignation of an individual bishop do not in any way help the victims or survivors. In the long term such calls will only distract attention from other matters. Even though everyone feels hurt at present, it is important to remember the great work done by so many church people in the past, not only in Ireland but also throughout the world. When Pope John Paul ll died, there was an outpouring of admiration and when Fr. Michael Sinnott was held captive in the Philippines, it touched a nerve with everyone. It is important that a balance is struck. I do not accept that we, as public representatives, should call for the resignation of any bishop.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with the sentiments expressed by colleagues about the startling revelations and the shocking and sickening litany of abuses outlined in the Murphy report. Many of the revelations to which I refer would have previously been in the public domain. However, their being catalogued together highlights a system of abuse that reaches into not just the church authorities but also those of the State. It appears certain individuals within the Garda Síochána turned a blind eye to allegations of abuse. Any discussion we have on the report should focus on that aspect as well as on the culpability of members of the hierarchy, and undoubtedly some culpability rests with them.
I second Senator Fitzgerald's amendment to the Order of Business that we have a discussion on flooding today. Last week-----
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I did not hear the movement of an amendment to the Order of Business. Perhaps Fine Gael is opposing the Order of Business but I did not hear an amendment to it.
John Paul Phelan (Fine Gael)
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Fine Gael is opposing the Order of Business. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business to have a discussion on flooding today. Last week, the Leader indicated we would have a daily discussion on flooding. I do not know whether a daily discussion is necessary but to have a discussion on Friday while people's homes are under water today is not a sufficient reaction by the Seanad. Perhaps when the rest of today's business has concluded we can have a discussion on flooding.
Senator Healy Eames mentioned Dr. Clonan's comments in her contribution. The Government failed to enact its own disaster management plan. Last year, a booklet was produced and sent to each house in the country which clearly outlined what strategy the Government would put in place and gave the example of flooding when describing how the Government would react to a major disaster. It failed to have a Cabinet meeting and to implement many aspects of its plan. We should discuss this as soon as possible.
I was shocked to learn from a programme on RTE last night that one Department proposed a pilot project for dredging and cleaning rivers in the west while the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government stated it could not go ahead. Over the past 60 or 70 years we have failed to do anything to clean up rivers; bar work done by angling clubs and some landowners nothing is being done. We should undertake that work immediately.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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I call for a series of debates in the House so that at least once a year we debate the protection and nurturing of children and that we have a regular debate on the economy. These would be features we would all get used to and we would all have a chance to prepare for them and speak. In speaking about the very sad Murphy report in particular and the litany of terrible events committed by the few over many decades I suggest that we all be mindful that the State also turned a blind eye in many instances. In the past, the State had a very mature relationship with the church and many aspects of it have matured further in recent times. Notwithstanding that, we must deal with this difficulty and reiterate what the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated, that a collar is no protection in this State against anybody being held liable for criminal prosecution and nor should it ever be.
In recognising the fact that very few clergy are involved, I understand how many of the majority are severely embarrassed by this. However, it is no harm to remind them that they still have a duty. They must preach the gospel and they should not be afraid of the unpopular aspects of it either. A message should go out from the discussion on the Order of Business that we expect the clergy, the vast majority of whom are good decent people, to continue to preach the gospel in full.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I sympathise with the Cathaoirleach and the people of Banagher and Shannon Harbour who have endured extraordinary pain and devastation over recent days. I second Senator John Paul Phelan's amendment to the Order of Business. The Minister should be here today to discuss this very serious issue. This day last week, representatives of the public service unions stated on national radio that there was no emergency in Athlone. What constitutes an emergency? Last night, on "The Frontline" they could not answer that either. I want a definition that clarifies what constitutes an emergency. If the River Tolka burst its banks in Dublin, a state of emergency would be declared. As a consequence of this Government's inertia in declaring a state of emergency, the unions announced there was no emergency in the Athlone area. Much to their embarrassment, our fantastic local authority employees were not able to work on Tuesday because of this union directive. The director of services asked the unions to lift the directive but they refused to do so. We in this House and the people of the midlands appreciate the local authority workers in Athlone and County Westmeath but their unions let them down badly.
I ask for a debate on flood insurance. People who are fully insured against flooding will have to wait until their houses have been assessed before they can get a single cent. What will they do in the meantime? They cannot apply for social welfare because they are not entitled to money for alternative accommodation. I am aware of one lady who will receive a mere €409 per month in social welfare benefits. That is a joke.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I have just come from a meeting-----
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I ask for a second. This is really important.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I understand but my hands are tied in respect of time.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Mansergh, has stated that his Department will liaise with the national parks and wildlife service, local authorities and the ESB. One agency must be put in charge.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to be fair to everybody and Senators are supposed to conclude within two minutes.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I will have to be more severe in cutting people off.
David Norris (Independent)
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The Cathaoirleach should convene a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privilege to address this issue properly and positively.
Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I tend not to stray into the moral field because I have enough problems with legislating for my own morality. However, I share the disappointment of Senator O'Donovan and others at the outcome of the report. Like many Catholics in this country, I feel let down. We will not have closure until we conduct a nationwide audit of every diocese in Ireland.
I concur with Senator Ó Murchú on the desire to hold a balanced debate. I accept what Senator Norris has to say about right-wing commentators scurrying away. Equally unseemly, however, are the people who have never been friends of the Catholic church and who are gleefully taking the opportunity to stick their boots into an organisation which has done much more good than most.
David Norris (Independent)
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I hope the Senator is not referring to me.
Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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No more than Senator Norris, I will not be specific. Turning to good news for change, I remind Senators that I have on several occasions spoken about the introduction of the go safe programme for introducing speed cameras nationally, a matter on which I have received the full support of Senators, especially the Leader. I am glad to report that contracts for the programme were signed last week. The tender was won by a Kerry-based company with foreign support and will create 120 jobs, including 50 in County Kerry, 50 in County Tipperary and a number in the Cathaoirleach's constituency. The principals behind the programme asked me to convey their gratitude to the Leader and other Senators for raising the issue in this House and expediting its introduction.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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The question has been raised of whether we face a national emergency or disaster because of the flooding. The Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, indicated that as Dublin was not affected, a national emergency was not being declared. Given that the car of the Minister, Deputy Lenihan, has since been submerged in water along the Strawberry Beds, perhaps we can now declare a national disaster. This is relevant in light of today's entry into force of the Lisbon treaty, which includes a solidarity clause obliging member states and European institutions to assist a member state affected by a national disaster. I do not understand why the Government has not invoked this clause. What has the Government done about raising this matter with the European Commission? I refer not to being in touch, as the Taoiseach indicated, but to a formal application for assistance invoking the provisions of the Lisbon treaty and seeking the aid of the European institutions and the Commission to assist the country when infrastructure, homes, farms and businesses have been so badly affected. There is a European Council meeting on 10 and 11 December at which the Government will have an opportunity to act expeditiously to ensure the Council makes a decision on assisting this country in this matter.