Seanad debates

Tuesday, 3 March 2009

2:30 pm

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Green Party)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Legal Services Ombudsman Bill 2008 — Committee and Remaining Stages.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Does the Deputy Leader agree that a new budget is needed that is fair and balanced and that addresses expenditure and taxation measures? Will he clarify when the new central banking commission will be established? Will it replace the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator? I assume those bodies will no longer exist under the new banking commission. Is that correct? Has the Government taken a decision on capping the salaries of bank chief executives and what is that cap?

What is the Green Party's position, and that of the Government, on protecting front-line services? I remain concerned that many of the current cutbacks are blunt in their application and hit the most vulnerable. I am speaking particularly about the recent cuts in provision for children with special needs, book grants and Travellers' grants, and funding for schools that work with the most disadvantaged groups. Is a policy being put in place to protect front-line services?

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I would appreciate if the Leader would provide for a debate not just on the point raised by Senator Fitzgerald about regulation and regulators but about regulation in general and how it works. What always seems to happen is that we run into one issue after another and the burden of difficulty always lies with the regulator. There is a classic example in this regard. I heard the Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs on the radio last week telling the world that when the Financial Regulator was contacted by the Government about 110% mortgages, his answer was that the market would sort that out. I knew when he was saying it that that was incorrect and that it was not possible. I double-checked it afterwards to confirm that the regulator did not have any authority to rule out 110% mortgages. I recollect, as I speak, that the Deputy Leader made a similar reference when speaking somewhere about two or three months ago and I should have corrected it at that stage. It is still incorrect no matter who says it. He did not have the authority to rule out any product.

Something similar is happening today. This afternoon on the plinth the ESB will announce a reduction in the cost of energy. Why is this happening? Politicians have rightly and understandably criticised the Commission for Energy Regulation for not allowing the ESB to reduce the price of electricity. My colleague, Senator Norris, and others have raised this. It is incomprehensible. It brings regulation into disrepute. However, the reason is simple. Ten years ago many on these benches pointed out that the efforts by Government to control electricity prices was simply a device to increase the cost of electricity to make it more profitable and therefore more attractive to the private sector. This has succeeded beyond the Government's wildest expectations, at a cost to Irish taxpayers——

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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——who have been paying for the second most expensive electricity in Europe over the past ten years, completely unnecessarily, in order to comply with a policy option of Government to open up the market. There is something daft about that. Twenty years ago I used to argue with people in the trade union movement who were bound up in principle on issues of nationalisation and privatisation. The same thing is happening now in government. If somebody would give a little injection of pragmatism into some of these decisions as we go along, life would become easier. I ask therefore that we consider the general issue of regulation and particularly the point made by Senator Fitzgerald.

It would be nice to offer a view, be asked for a view or be consulted about the nature of financial services regulation. Many of us questioned at length the decision to break up the regulatory system and remove the responsibility from the Governor of the Central Bank when this was done five or six years ago. It did not seem to make sense then, or at least there was no practical reason for it. Now we are changing things back. We need to consider these issues seriously and we can do so in a way that allows everybody to have his or her say and Government may be informed by it.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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Senator O'Toole makes an excellent point about the need to review the level of regulation. As has been pointed out before, this House may have a peculiarly important role to play in that regard. I have a proposal to make to the Deputy Leader which we might consider in the coming weeks. It occurred to me in the context of the publication yesterday of a report entitled National Integrity Systems by a group called Transparency International. I wonder whether the Deputy Leader would agree that it would be timely for us to have a debate on the issues pointed out by this report.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I agree, and I have tabled a motion on it.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator White, without interruption.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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The report is not all negative and is not an attack, nor does it lack balance. It notes that progress has been made in preventing petty corruption, especially in regard to public matters, and grand corruption, which we have addressed through various tribunals. However, the report also notes with regret that what it describes as legal corruption continues to exist. It states:

While no laws may be broken, personal relationships, patronage, political favours, and political donations are believed to influence political decisions and policy to a considerable degree. The situation is compounded by a lack of transparency in political funding and lobbying.

I acknowledge that the Deputy Leader and his party previously expressed interest in this area. Given that the Government does not appear to be willing to listen to Opposition Members on much else, this might be an opportunity for us to make a positive contribution by establishing a group, perhaps in this House, to consider the report's conclusions. The question of regulating financial institutions does not have to be addressed on a partisan basis. I accept that some may wish to go further than others in that regard but while that is a genuine political difference, it is a matter which we can productively debate in this House.

All the institutions of the State, including political parties and the Houses of the Oireachtas, as well as other institutions, such as the legal profession and the Judiciary, are now subject to scrutiny. However, we should also scrutinise our press and broadcast media.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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Important public bodies should not escape unscathed. It would be valuable if we could find an opportunity to examine the media in a manner which does not seek to demonise or attack people. At a time of significant public concern and fear, there is an extraordinary amount of opinion but very little analysis in the media. These Houses can be accused, perhaps fairly, of a similar failing but it is readily apparent in most of our newspapers and broadcast media.

Photo of Denis O'DonovanDenis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I seek a debate on the seafood industry. This issue is an old hobby horse of mine and I was prompted to raise it again by a statement made by the chief executive of Bord Iascaigh Mhara, Jason Whooley, at a conference in Galway last week. At a time when jobs are being lost, there is considerable potential along our coastline for the promotion of the seafood industry. In my neck of the woods, seafood producers such Shellfish De La Mer in Castletownbere and Bantry Bay Seafoods are developing added-value products for export. Our coastline has been decimated but it can recover through the development of the seafood industry.

Chile, Spain, France and Norway are streets ahead of us in this regard. The plans we developed in the early 1990s to produce 30,000 tonnes of mussels became stuck at 10,000 tonnes. There is too much regulation and scientific mismanagement of some of our seafood areas. The control of AZA toxins in mussels is rightly a major issue because food security is important. The same toxins are found in Canada but are unknown in the United States, Chile and Argentina. It is time we had a debate on this matter with one of the Ministers of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Sargent or Deputy Killeen. The seafood industry can create employment at a time when jobs are haemorrhaging left, right and centre.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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Thousands of our fellow country people are living in stranded, fugitive circumstances in America. They are not able to enter the workforce in the normal way or avail of regular employment protections and cannot return home for family funerals, weddings and other events. They live in constant fear, which is horrendous and wrong. It is clear a comprehensive immigration Bill will not go through the legislature in America this year and that there is no support for such legislation. I ask that the Deputy Leader arrange a debate in this House in regard to the Government seeking a bilateral agreement between the United States and Ireland to address and regularise the situation of the undocumented Irish——

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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——and to put in place a quota system as is provided for in respect of Australia, thus allowing these people to live a dignified life. Given the current economic climate of unemployment here these people no longer have the option of returning home and are in no man's land. We have a special responsibility towards them. I ask the Deputy Leader to ensure the Government uses Ireland's goodwill in America to negotiate a bilateral agreement, which Fine Gael has been recommending for a long time. This is the way to go. I appeal to the Deputy Leader to provide time for such a debate in this House and to bring this issue to the attention of the relevant Minister. It is especially apt, in the context of St. Patrick's Day, that we deal with this issue now.

Photo of Cecilia KeaveneyCecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with Senator White about regulation of the media, in particular in terms of media coverage last Sunday which slurred the thousands of decent people who attended the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis. It is wrong that people can state their opinions and not have to adhere to facts. The sooner there is more examination of what is being written, the better.

I concur with Senator O'Donovan about a debate on seafood. I renew my call for the appointment of one Minister with responsibility for the marine. Currently, this matter comes within the remit of seven ministries, which makes it impossible to drive the potential of the marine sector. I ask the Deputy Leader to bring this matter to the Taoiseach's attention.

I draw attention to the decision taken by the Scottish Government to deal with its serious alcohol problem. Scotland is ranked eighth in the world in terms of alcohol consumption. The cost in this regard to its economy is €2.2 billion with 42,000 people attending emergency services for alcohol related injuries and so on. Scotland is considering the introduction of minimum pricing and the abolition of happy hours and deals such as two drinks for the price of one.

It was stated in this House prior to Christmas that people were leaving this country in the droves to purchase cheaper alcohol in the North. I ask that the Deputy Leader provide time for a discussion on this issue. If Scotland, which is ranked eighth in the world in terms of alcohol consumption, is concerned then Ireland, given it is ranked second in the world, should also be concerned. This issue is raised often in this House. I ask again that time be provided for a debate on alcohol in the context of the introduction of an all-Ireland VAT rate on alcohol to deal with access and availability of cheap alcohol and that this issue be drawn to the attention of the British-Irish Council, the British Irish Interparliamentary Body and at all forthcoming North-South Ministerial Council meetings. We should also be discussing with the Scottish Parliament how it is addressing this issue, what advice we can offer it and what lessons we can learn from it in this regard. I believe this would be a worthwhile exercise.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I have called over recent weeks for a rolling debate on the economy and do so again today. I will not put it to a vote because that would be a waste of time. However, we have plenty of time today. There is only one item of legislation to be discussed to which no amendments have been tabled. As a result, today's business is going to collapse embarrassingly early. I do not see any reason we cannot have a debate on the economy today. It is important we do so, in particular given the Bank of Ireland cannot now even control its petty cash of €7 million compared with the €7 billion of taxpayers' money guzzled by the banks.

I disagree with my distinguished colleague, the Senator for the Sunday Independent, Senator Harris, who fulminated last week against the Garda Síochána for engaging in a dignified protest. I believe we are extremely lucky to have such a remarkable, fine and active force of men and women. I congratulate the off-duty garda who last week managed to kick a gun from the hands of a bandit. That was an act of great bravery. Members of the Garda were on the ball, despite the paucity of information they were given, when they managed to apprehend people with several million euro in the back of their car. We should be grateful to have such an excellent force.

We need a debate on the economy. The Government appears to think it can cure it by licensing casinos, as if the entire financial system had not become a casino anyway. I call for this debate to examine some inconsistencies such as in the centre of Dublin where businesses are closing down one after another with sales offering 50% reductions and luxury hotels offering rooms for €20 a night. This apparently is economically possible for them even though rents are increasing. Rent reviews can only go upwards. This should be addressed in legislation.

There is plenty of talent in this country. Look at Eileen Gray, a young woman from Wexford who went to Paris. We hardly even heard of her here but she became one of the greatest designers of the 20th century. The so-called dragon chair went for €22 million at the recent Yves Saint Laurent auction. We certainly have talent. Visitors to the Chamber often remark that its kind of ceiling could not be done nowadays because people no longer have the talent they once had in days gone by, but I point out that young craftspeople put the entire central section of the ceiling in place when I was a new Senator. There is plenty of talent in this country if we encourage the ingenuity and foster the talent of the people.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Deputy Leader, Senator Dan Boyle, to arrange a debate on the functions of the taxi regulator. Many rural towns, including my home, Listowel, do not have taxis but have hackney drivers. The hackney driver holds an old and honoured position. Unlike a taxi driver, the hackney cannot cruise for work. He does not have a rank. He operates from his home. He has to be commissioned before he undertakes a drive. In recent years at festive times, such as race meetings or Christmas, taxis from other towns and even from another county come into a town where the hackney drivers normally ply their trade to the disadvantage of the hackney drivers who cannot compete with them. The taxi regulator needs to address this anomaly.

I have been using taxis quite frequently here and notice more and more of the drivers are not familiar with the city. It is quite common when one gives directions to an address close to O'Connell Bridge, the heart of the city, that some of these drivers must switch on a satellite navigation system. I was in the ridiculous situation last week of trying steer a taxi driver home and found him driving up pedestrianised Grafton Street——

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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Was he caught?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is a queer looking Miss Daisy.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Lost in Kerry.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The unfortunate man was intercepted by an on-duty Garda.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I regret that on all these occasions the taxi drivers tend to be non-nationals. I have the greatest sympathy for non-nationals trying to earn a living here for themselves and their families in a foreign land. Whether they are Irish, English, French or Greek, the taxi regulator needs to ensure all the taxi drivers in the city at least know where O'Connell Street is.

3:00 pm

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is worth supporting Senator Norris's proposal for a rolling debate on the economy because that is where the game is at. We should spend at least between 45 minutes and an hour daily discussing the economy. The Deputy Leader should consider that.

I was delighted to see AIB and Eugene Sheehy facing up to reality and putting some serious plans in place to face worst-case scenarios. I am intrigued, however, that he is willing to write off billions of euro in bad debts. Whose debts is he writing off? How many are the debts of home owners? Are these the debts of developers or commercial loans? What is happening to the land banks? We need answers to these questions because land will never go out of fashion. It will always have a value, even if that value is lower. It is important for us to hear that. I would like to ask a second question about AIB. There are conflicting reports in the public domain about AIB. It has been suggested that it is due to be nationalised, but Mr. Eugene Sheehy has said that it does not need to be nationalised. Will the Deputy Leader clarify the current position in that regard? Can he make more information available on this issue?

As Fine Gael's spokesperson on education in this House, I want to say clearly that I am sick and tired of the use by the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, of the policy of inclusion to justify the placement of children with special needs in mainstream classes, many of which are not ready to offer an appropriate education to them. Some of these children need to be toileted. Some of them cannot talk. Many mainstream classes are not ready for them because the Minister has not implemented the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004, which was supposed to make sure that the special educational needs of children would be met on a statutory basis. It is time for the Minister to be brought into this House to answer these questions. He needs to explain to many parents throughout the country what the position will be next September with regard to their children and their schools. I have been asked to meet parents, teachers and children. The Minister, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, boycotted this House for four months after last year's budget and I do not want that to happen again. I ask the Deputy Leader to tell us when the Minister will come to this House and face up to this issue.