Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann approves the draft Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act, 2000 (Section 5) (Specified Period) Order, 2009, a copy of which was laid before Seanad Éireann on 22 January 2009.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Under section 5(5)(a) of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000, the commission is statutorily obliged to publish its report to the general public within the specified period. The current specified period will expire on 31 January 2009 and the extension is required in order to allow the commission to fulfil its statutory mandate to finalise and publish its report during the specified period. As prescribed by the Act, the Department consulted the commission on the timeframe for the extension of the current specified period. The commission, which is independent of the Department in its functions, has requested an extension of four months to the end of May 2009 to allow for completion of the report and to make the necessary preparations for its publication. The chairperson, the Honourable Mr. Justice Seán Ryan, in a letter to the Department, dated 19 January 2009, confirmed the commission is finalising the report, which is expected to comprise between 3,000 and 3,500 pages. The present position is that more than 90% of the material is being given final approval by the commissioners and the remainder will be completed before mid-February at which time the printing and proofing process will begin.

When the previous extension was sought in May 2008, the commission had indicated to the Department that it hoped to be in a position to forward the report to the printers by the end of November 2008, with a further period of two months being allowed in which to finalise the printing and proofing process. Consequently, the previous specified period was extended to the end of January 2009 on foot of those advices received from the commission. However, in his letter of 19 January 2009, the chairperson has indicated the work and time involved in the printing, proofing and publication of the report was underestimated. All focus to date has been on completing the writing of the report but the commission is now in a position to be more accurate about the schedule of work required leading to the publication of the report. Under the terms of section 5(5) of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000, an order to extend the term of the commission must be approved by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Since the then Taoiseach's apology of 11 May 1999 to the victims of abuse in childhood, a range of Government measures have been put in place for the redress of abuse, including the establishment of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, the setting up of a financial redress scheme for victims of abuse and the establishment of a statutory redress board to administer this scheme, the provision of counselling services and the establishment of the education finance board. The commission was formally established in May 2000 and its broad terms of reference are to afford victims of abuse in childhood an opportunity to tell of the abuse they suffered to a sympathetic and experienced forum; to establish as complete a picture as possible of the causes, nature and extent of the physical and sexual abuse of children in institutions and in other places during the period from 1940 to the present; and to compile a report and publish it to the public on the activities and the findings of the commission, containing recommendations on actions to address the continuing effects of the abuse and actions to be taken to safeguard children from abuse in future.

One of the core functions of the commission is to provide those who previously had no such facility with an opportunity to recount their experiences of childhood abuse to an experienced and sympathetic forum. This therapeutic role is all that many former residents of institutions require of the commission. However, others have expressed a wish for their allegations of abuse to be inquired into. To ensure both strands were accommodated, the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000 provided for two distinct committees — the confidential committee and the investigation committee. In providing two separate fora, this has ensured, on the one hand, the right to confidentiality of those who wanted only to access the therapeutic role of the commission and, on the other hand, the right to natural justice of those persons accused of abuse.

The confidential committee has provided a forum for 1,090 victims of abuse to recount their experience on an entirely confidential basis. The purpose of the committee is to meet the needs of those victims who want to recount their experiences but who do not wish to become involved in an investigative procedure. The investigation committee investigated complaints and allegations made to it. It has the power to compel persons accused to attend before it and to compel them to produce any relevant documentation which it may require as part of its investigations. This committee is, therefore, facilitating victims who wish both to recount their experiences and to have allegations of abuse fully inquired into. To date, part of the committee's activities are as follows: 286 individuals attended 288 hearings; 553 people were interviewed; 59 complainants attended for interview and hearing; 353 who made applications withdrew from the process; and 253 transferred to the confidential committee. The investigation committee has also held public hearings into a number of specific institutions. Evidence has also been submitted to the committee at public hearings relating to the Departments of Education and Science, Justice Equality and Law Reform and Health and Children and the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. The committee is in the process of finalising its report.

On completion of its investigations and as required by the relevant legislation, the commission will publish its report. This will be published directly to the public by the commission itself. The final report of the commission will be based on the findings and subsequent reports of both the confidential and investigation committees. The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000 provides that, in its report, the commission may identify institutions in which abuse occurred and the people responsible for such abuse and may make findings in regard to the role and responsibility of management and regulatory authorities. The report however, following the recommendation of the commission, will not make findings on any individual case. It may also contain recommendations on actions to address the continuing effects of the abuse and actions to be taken to safeguard children from abuse in the future.

The publication of the report will not represent the end of the commission's operations. Other functions must be performed which statutorily can continue after the specified period has lapsed. These include settlement of all third party legal representation costs, management of discovery documentation held by the commission, the carrying out of any work related to post-publication of reports and management of the general shutdown of the commission. The commission, during the period of its existence, has been the recipient of a voluminous body of extremely confidential and sensitive material. Consequently and in accordance with section 6 of the 2000 Act, the commission will have to make such arrangements as it considers appropriate for the making of as complete a record as is practicable of the proceedings of the commission and the committees. It will also be charged with making arrangements for the custody and-or disposal of the documents provided to the commission. This in itself will be a huge task.

Expenditure for the commission from inception to the end of 2008 was €59.4 million. It is estimated that an additional provision of between €30 million and €40 million may be required to meet remaining overall costs of the commission to the end of 2010. The 2009 allocation of €20 million will meet part of this liability. This is a tentative provision, given the commission has yet to receive and assess a large volume of third party legal costs. The granting of this extension will not require additional funding above that allocated.

I urge Senators to approve this resolution by supporting the motion. By doing so, Senators are enabling the commission to fulfil its statutory mandate by publishing its report. By supporting the motion, Senators are providing the legal basis through which the Government and this House have previously decided the commission would report and they will provide the opportunity for a regrettable episode in Irish history to be recorded fully, accurately and fairly and to acknowledge the input of all those who were part of this process. The publication of the report, containing the findings and recommendations of the commission, is an essential part of the service the Government can render to our society as a whole. However, while society as a whole can benefit from the work of the commission, we must not forget that this is primarily a commission for the victims of abuse. The work of the commission and its public report is an opportunity for them to receive the kind of respectful and sympathetic acknowledgement to which they are entitled. I commend the motion to the House.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Senator Fitzgerald. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. It is time we got on with this because the commission has been sitting for nine years. We, in Fine Gael are happy to support the time extension requested by the Minister of State but it is time to finish up and, therefore, this should be the final extension. Is the reason for the delay the need to proof the document before publication?

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, that is more or less a reflection of the situation.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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In light of the recent revelations regarding the Roscommon incest case and the Cloyne diocese, does the Government intend to ask the commission to conduct investigations into other allegations of child abuse? The Minister of State said it would have a future role. What type of role will it have and will it have a role in new emerging cases of abuse? In light of recent revelations can we feel genuinely satisfied that an inquiry into Health Service Executive actions carried out by a team including HSE members can be genuinely independent? There is no point unless we can get the truth. This was essentially a truth commission. We now have a monster doing really good work but it has cost the State €79.4 million over nine years. It must knit in and the findings of this report must be implemented. Can the Minister of State give a commitment to the House that it will and that practice will change?

Has the commission considered mandatory reporting of child abuse within its terms of reference? I am a former teacher and when I taught in New York where there was mandatory reporting of child abuse. It changed how I viewed the area of child protection and child neglect. The very definition of neglect included even educational neglect. With that new perspective, I was definitely more aware of my responsibility. On the Order of Business today I shared with the House one experience I had. A six year old boy in my class was always tired and could never concentrate. On talking to him, he told me that his brother was always getting up on his back at night. When I reported my concerns to the principal, there was an investigation into the family which discovered an entire litany of abuse. It was known but not about this particular child and the case was, if one likes, let rest to be reopened again. Educators or teachers will just have suspicions and need help through the law and by training to be protected and empowered to act.

The Department of Education and Science promised full implementation of the Children First guidelines along with training provided to teachers. There is only one designated liaison person in each school with another person being offered training this year. That is not good enough. Regardless of whether it is the diocese, priests, school or family, it is the child who is being hurt.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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We are discussing this matter in the context of the appalling revelations about a family in Roscommon where there was abuse and neglect over many years and the children were not protected. I imagine this report will shed light on a very dark corner of our history. More than 1,000 victims of abuse have been interviewed by the commission. Obviously we support the extension of the commission's work and it being given the opportunity to report fully and comprehensively on what it has found during its investigation. No doubt many lessons will be learnt from the commission as its report comes into the public arena and at the same time the report into abuse in the Dublin diocese comes into the arena along with other recent findings. Today I again looked at the Kelly Fitzgerald report, published in 1996, from which we should have learnt many lessons. Clearly we have not learnt from that case or from the Kilkenny incest case.

I wish to make a number of brief points about the commission. A very important social history will emerge in the coming months when it publishes its report. It is very important that what the commission has learnt through its investigations is brought to the light of day in full. The Minister of State talked about the records being preserved. It is very important that as much information as possible comes from the report so that we can understand the full extent of what happened to allow us to ensure it does not happen again. That needs to be the key lesson to be learnt from the report. We need to implement its recommendations.

Some €79 million in costs have been incurred, much of it in legal costs. The State needs to learn to investigate without incurring such costs.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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I say that as an aside. It is an incredible sum of money to investigate a sad part of our history and how it has affected individuals.

I want to make the point about the commission.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should conclude.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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I will conclude on this. I appreciate this is not strictly the brief of the Minister of State. However, we need to have interconnectedness between the work he is doing and that of the Minister of State with responsibility for children. The investigation into the Roscommon case clearly should be an independent investigation. I know the person appointed as chair, who I am sure will do a very good job. As soon as she finds that the terms of reference are so limited, I expect she will have serious concerns. It is unacceptable for the HSE to be investigating itself. In the time of the health boards, one health board used to investigate another health board, which was seen to be acceptable. To have HSE staff members investigating themselves is simply unacceptable. I note that Senator Mary White also said this on the Order of Business. I hope the Government will immediately review that proposal and the investigation team's terms of reference. The children were left in the situation they were in because many agencies, for whatever reason, did not come together and work together. We need to investigate not just that——

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator must conclude.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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——but also the school, the community and the court decisions that were taken. The terms of reference simply do not allow for that, which is very disturbing. On a day when the Seanad is discussing the issue of 1,000 people who have been abused in various residential settings and a report on it costing €79 million, which will be well spent if it prevents the sort of abuse it will outline, to be setting up another inquiry in the same week that is not as objective as it should be and that is not a commission of inquiry with the power——

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator——

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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—— to subpoena witnesses is simply unacceptable. It is bad governance on the part of the Government and bad decision making. I hope it will be changed before the inquiry begins.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. As we all know, the issue of child abuse is reported in the newspapers, if not daily then every second day. The headlines in the past two weeks on the Roscommon case put more pressure on the Government to amend the Constitution to protect children. The rights of children need to be enshrined in the Constitution. We have had the findings of the Roman Catholic Church's national board for safeguarding children that the diocese of Cloyne was not compliant with the church's own child protection policies, having failed to alert the authorities to child sexual abuse allegations, and we have had the Roscommon case involving the first woman in the history of the State to be jailed for incest and abusing her own children. The deadline for the commission to publish its report should be extended so that the commission may include also the victims and outcomes of these two cases.

We are told that child abuse is rampant in this country. The Rape Crisis Centre published figures in October 2008. It reported that 60% of people abused in childhood were abused for longer than a year. It also estimated that almost 7% of childhood abuse is perpetrated on girls under the age of four. Girls are much more likely to be abused by a family member or extended family member. Boys are much more likely than girls to be abused by an authority figure, which may include a youth leader, priest, or sports coach.

What constitutes child abuse? Children have a right to enjoy their childhood free from sexual abuse, violence or injury at the hands of adults or others. This right is enshrined in law, from the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child down to national laws and guidelines. Children can be subjected to different forms of abuse, including by paedophiles when children are sexually abused by adults. Paedophiles are monsters. Neglect occurs where a child is deprived of food, clothing, warmth, hygiene, stimulation or care. Another form is emotional abuse, where affection, approval, consistency and security are withheld from a child. The effects of sexual abuse include post-traumatic distress disorder, deliberate self-harm, suicide, promiscuity, alcohol abuse and depression. Unless abused children are identified and receive counselling and the best psychiatric services, I am afraid they will never be free to reach their potential or enjoy their lives.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I support the motion. I am glad the commission is doing its work. Mr. Justice Seán Ryan deserves great credit, as does his predecessor, Ms Justice Mary Laffoy.

The mark of a mature society is that it learns from past errors and evils and tries to ensures a brighter future, when the dignity of a person will be fully vindicated. As we reflect on the Ryan commission, our first thoughts are with the victims of abuse. I note the reference by the Minister of State to the therapeutic value of victims being able to tell their story. It is worth noting the structure of the commission which has a confidential committee, a willow tree where people can relate their experiences in full, as well as an investigation committee to hear different sides in the making of allegations. These separate fora were necessary to cope with the needs of the victims of abuse such as those who had a general story to tell of hurt caused. Perhaps people on the margins of society had suffered before being institutionalised and then suffered further hurt while in institutional care. There is a need to reflect on the institutional set-up.

I know of cases in which false allegations were made. I was contacted by such a person. Eventually the case against him was dropped but not before he had endured years of torment. In taking such a telephone call and hearing such a story, one does not know how to weigh what one is hearing in terms of its quality. The man spoke of wanting to give evidence to the commission but the case was withdrawn. There may be a small number of cases in which that happened but it is also an injustice when a false allegation is made. In some cases false allegations were made against people who were still alive. It is disappointing that in an era when society seemed to understand the strong social sense of the sanctity of life, there was not always respect for the dignity of the living. As we see everyday, including in the context of the Roscommon incest case, the difficulty of vindicating the dignity of the person remains a challenge in society. It is arguable that, while in some ways the world is a better place for children, when one considers diverse issues such as family breakdown and the secrecy that still surrounds the neglect and abuse of children, it can be a hard world for many. That is a tragic statement to make in a society that considers itself civilised and modern.

Many of the institutions in question were run by the church which was the main carer. It is disappointing that, in the cases investigated by the commission, on occasion institutions or people of the church proved to be poor carers. We should not forget that the reason these institutions were largely run by the church is it was the main carer, in the words of the Constitution, in the place of parents. As we continue to learn, sometimes the person charged with responsibility for the care of a child can be a poor or cruel carer, even a criminally cruel carer.

We should situate this issue in an international context. It is tempting to think such cases only happened in Ireland but if one examines institutional care settings throughout the world, one will see that those on the margins of society, those who were vulnerable enough to be placed in institutional care, were frequently considered to have rights lesser to those who grew up in more stable, loving families. As we await the report of the commission and wish it well, listen to its findings and reflect on what we are told, we must learn from what it will tell us in order that there will be a brighter era and that we will be assisted in the work of ensuring a better society in which children and the most vulnerable members of society will cherished and which will be truly child friendly, not just in its laws and public rhetoric but the day-to-day reality of children's lives within their families.

Alex White (Labour)
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Like others, I support the proposal that the period of time afforded to the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse be extended for the period suggested. It is appropriate that this be done and the time suggested is not unreasonable, notwithstanding what others have said about the length of time the deliberations have taken to date.

I thank the Minister of State for the details provided in his contribution to this short debate. He has gone as far as he can to put Members in the picture regarding the current state of play with the commission. It is appropriate that this be done. Often, when asked to extend the period of time given to other bodies, it is as much our fault as that of anyone else but we are inclined to let these matters pass quickly and with a nod. It is appropriate, therefore, that short debates such as this take place and that the appropriate Minister should come into to the House to put us in the picture.

We will have the opportunity to engage in a full debate on the findings of the commission in due course. We are reminded by recent events that there is considerable abuse other than in institutions, with which the commission principally deals. We have had a stark reminder in recent days that there is considerable abuse in the family home. As others have said, it is important that the commission have the opportunity to finish its work. Those undertaking it have considerable expertise, are persons of renown and have a considerable reputation. They include Mr. Justice Seán Ryan. I note that his predecessor, Ms Justice Laffoy, did not have a happy experience in the early stages of the commission. I hope the institutions involved and the Department have given their full co-operation to it, as we expect nothing less. There were question marks against this in the early days but I believe the matter has been resolved.

One of the attractions of the commission is that it is not characterised by adversarial presentations or the cross-examination of persons appearing before it. It is more akin to a truth commission in the way we have become familiar with them in other countries. On behalf of the Labour Party, I agree to the reasonable extension proposed until May for the completion of the report of the commission and look forward to its publication and our debate on it.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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The motion is simple in its nature and I am pleased that all parties are prepared to accept the extension of time being sought. It also offers the House an opportunity to express ongoing concerns about the nature and practice of child abuse in society. There is no doubt that recent events which are being examined by the Health Service Executive have appalled people and brought into question the extent to which society has a handle on this issue. This is not necessarily a criticism of the systems currently in place but as a society we are failing and we need to make changes.

I have made this criticism before but the situation will be helped when there is full implementation of the Children Act. Although I am aware of the political and fiscal realities behind it, I cannot understand why there continues to be a reluctance to implement the remaining sections of this Act. Until this is done, situations such as occurred in Roscommon, will continue to be repeated. Unless the necessary political action is taken, I fear for the immediate future.

I refer to the Oireachtas joint committee which is considering the constitutional issue of children's rights and I wish it well in its work. I hope for an early deliberation on the decision we need to make as to whether such a change should occur. There is widespread acceptance in society that such a change should be recognised in the Constitution and effected by legislation. We also need to deal with the issue of mandatory reporting. The debate on this issue is between those who think that mandatory reporting will somehow create a nanny state but I would argue and it is my party's policy that the absence of mandatory reporting has the exact opposite effect. A nanny takes care of a child's needs. The situation reported in the past week proves that a lack of care is evident in the case of too many children. We need to put in place systems to allow people express concerns in a confidential way and which can be acted upon following sufficient investigation.

It may be the case that mandatory reporting will result in people being unfairly accused but I am hopeful that the system of mandatory reporting will be used appropriately and we will have a society in which people will make such concerns known in a responsible way. The alternative is the appalling events in County Roscommon and in too many other locations.

I wish the commission well in completing its work and in using the extension of time wisely. The House depends on its deliberations being a means of informing the wider debate on the issue. I look forward to both Houses of the Oireachtas living up to the responsibility of both implementing the existing legislation and bringing forward further necessary legislation.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Department of Education and Science is sponsoring this motion. Many of the questions raised are more properly a matter for the Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs. However, I will make some comments about the awful case heard recently in Roscommon Circuit Court.

On 24 January 2009, Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs, Deputy Barry Andrews, took receipt of the Health Service Executive preliminary review into the very disturbing case which recently came before Roscommon Circuit Court and which has been widely reported. On foot of this preliminary review, the Minister of State has indicated his full support for the HSE's decision to launch an immediate detailed independent investigation into the case. He is confident that the terms of reference are sufficiently broad enough to ensure all the relevant facts are established and appropriate findings are made. The appointment of Ms Norah Gibbons of Barnardos, as chairperson of the team, brings a wealth of experience to the investigation and significantly adds to the independence of the inquiry. As the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, has correctly pointed out, all members of society should be vigilant for the signs of child abuse and neglect. The Department of Education and Science awaits the outcome of the HSE investigation and will take on board any recommendations made by the inquiry team which would enhance the child protection procedures currently in operation in our schools.

A number of questions were raised by Senators and I thank Members for their support for this motion. The commission will have no further role other than investigation of the historical abuse. There are other functions to be performed which may statutorily continue after the specified period has elapsed. These include settlement of all third party legal representation costs, management of discovery documentation held by the commission, the carrying out of any work related to post-publication of reports, and management of the general shut-down of the commission.

The Dublin archdiocese inquiry will deal with clerical child abuse in Dublin and Cloyne. The commission was extended to deal with allegations in respect of Cloyne. With regard to child protection procedures generally, the primary statutory responsibility for child protection lies with the Health Service Executive. The role of the Department of Education and Science is to provide guidance and support to schools in implementing child protection policy and to refer any allegations received to the appropriate authorities for investigation. The Department has issued child protection guidelines to all primary and post-primary schools.

I refer to a point raised by Senator Mullen. The Department has recently been in receipt of correspondence from representatives of the TUI, the ASTI and the INTO, expressing concerns regarding the Department's current practice of reporting all complaints to the HSE, especially allegations of bullying and emotional abuse. The primary statutory responsibility for child protection lies with the HSE. It is not the function of the Department of Education and Science to investigate allegations of abuse. The role of the Department is to provide guidance and support to schools in implementing child protection policy and to refer any allegations to the appropriate authorities. However, once the Children First guidelines are updated and the reports of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse and the Dublin archdiocese commission have been published, the Department will review its current protocols and will make any necessary amendments or additions where appropriate.

This subject could be further debated in the House in the presence of the Minister of State with responsibility and youth affairs. I thank Senators for their support. It is a reasonable request and I am grateful to Members for their co-operation in this matter.