Seanad debates

Wednesday, 10 December 2008

10:30 am

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re Eurojust, which is back from the committee; No. 2, the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 — Report Stage; No. 3, Statements on the recall of Irish pork and bacon products; and No. 4, a Private Members' Bill, the Criminal Law (Admissibility of Evidence) Bill 2008.

It is proposed that No. 1 shall be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; No. 2 shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 1; No. 3 shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 2 but not earlier than 3.30 p.m. and conclude within one hour and 30 minutes, if not previously concluded. Spokespersons may speak for seven minutes, other Senators for five minutes, Senators may share time and the Minister is to be called upon five minutes from the end of the debate for concluding comments; and No. 4 shall be taken at 5 p.m. to conclude not later than 7 p.m.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader reconsider not having an Order of Business on Fridays in this House? As Senator O'Toole raised this issue yesterday, I would ask the Leader to reconsider it. The precedent in the House has been that when there is business there would be an Order of Business and I would like to see us reverting to that.

It is clear from the debate on and the international reaction to what has happened in our food industry in recent days that enormous damage is being done internationally. I am sure many Senators will be aware that international newspapers such as Le Monde and Le Soir, and Sky News, have been leading with stories about the damage to our industry. It is clear that once the serious issues on traceability and inspection which I raised yesterday have been dealt with satisfactorily here and the package has been put in place, a major initiative will be needed internationally to restore confidence in Irish food. I would point out that Bord Bia, which would traditionally have been very involved in such a campaign, had its budget slashed by 8% in the budget. There must be clear and decisive leadership in terms of this campaign internationally if the damage done already is not to be compounded. Perhaps that is matter to which we can return at a later date in this House.

Today marks the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We have called for some time for a debate in the House on the broad range of equality issues. Yesterday there was one manifestation of those equality issues when we had a photograph taken in the House of all of the women Members and former Members who were available. That is the first time ever that close to 50% of those sitting in the Chamber were women and that is a goal for which we should strive. Equally, I commend The Irish Times on the booklet it produced, and gave away yesterday with the newspaper, to mark the anniversary.

I note in The Irish Times today that former Senator and former President, Mary Robinson, has an interesting article on climate change. She writes about its impact on rights and the poorest people, and calls for the issue to be put at the top of our agenda. We ought to be debating climate change in this House and I ask the Leader to facilitate such a debate.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The question of taking motions without debate has regularly arisen in this House. For the benefit of Members, I will explain the long-standing protocol. There is agreement that a proposal to refer a matter to committee will always be taken without debate on the basis that Members of the House can sit in any joint committee where the issue may be discussed. According to convention, when the matter comes back from committee, a Member is entitled to raise it here if he or she genuinely feels it was not adequately addressed, although the arguments made in committee should not be simply rehearsed. However, motions such as the one before the House today, which is neither coming from nor going to committee, should be discussed among the leaders' group on Tuesdays to determine whether Members desire a debate. Senator Regan raised this issue a few times and I agree with his arguments. It is bad to get into the habit of taking motions without determining whether somebody wishes to discuss them.

It does not give me pleasure to be disruptive to this House. At the end of the day, these matters fall on the Cathaoirleach's lap. I believe we have been treated with disdain and contempt in regard to the Order of Business, although I do not know if that was the Leader's intention. We have held long debates on the importance of the Order of Business. It is the most energised, well attended and relevant part of the day's business for both sides of the House. It is, therefore, unacceptable that it should be lost or threatened in any way.

When we made this point last week, the Cathaoirleach adjourned the House so that a group of us could find a solution. In deference to the Leader, who said that he made arrangements which he could not change, we conceded to the arrangements for last Friday on the basis that the matter would be reviewed before this week's sitting on Friday. We acted in good faith, despite having difficulties with the proposal. However, before we had the opportunity to discuss the matter — it was agreed we would discuss it on Tuesday — the schedule issued for this week which did not include an Order of Business on Friday. I cannot do business on that basis. Irrespective of whether the Leader intended that outcome, I find it contemptuous. Advantage was taken of the good nature with which we approached the matter. We have always endeavoured to be co-operative, but the proper way to do business involves consulting and discussing before making decisions.

If I shake hands on an agreement, it is written in blood, and I am prepared to live with the downside as well as the upside of my decision. What is happening here is undemocratic. The Cathaoirleach called at least three meetings of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to discuss an extension of the Order of Business from 40 minutes to 45 or 50 minutes. How does that sit with the Leader who dismisses the entire Order of Business without discussion? It is not logical and I am not sure whether the Leader has thought his way through the matter.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I recognise that occasions arise when the Leader comes under pressure from the Government to bring legislation through the House. We have never been found wanting in co-operating with him in that regard. However, the fine traditions of this grand institution are being threatened. The Order of Business is a precious jewel and I ask the Leader to reconsider his position. I am not asking for people to back down but I cannot accept the proposals for the next two Fridays. It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to act in ways that Members opposite would view as disruptive. I prefer to fight my battles straight. If this disagreement continues, the Cathaoirleach will eventually put Members out of the Chamber and it will become a mess. We should deal with the matter now and come to a conclusion on it.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I regret that education is not on today's Order of Business. I will not make a long speech as to why we need to debate the issue, but I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that the impact of the education cuts be discussed by this House.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Senator O'Toole is correct. The Order of Business in this House is an excellent system that allows Members on all sides to raise issues of national and local significance. The issue of the marine radio stations in Malin and Valencia, for example, was raised by all Members on the Order of Business. The welcome decision by the Government to do a U-turn on that issue was due in no small part to the fact that it was debated at length in this House. We should be very careful, therefore, about preserving the Order of Business.

Unemployment figures are alarming and are deteriorating on a weekly basis. Unfortunately, they will further deteriorate in the new year, not least because of the downturn in the construction industry. During the good times, when huge amounts of money were available to people who were willing to work in construction, young people decided to work on building sites rather than enter third level education. Unfortunately, these people, who were lured by well paid employment, now find themselves in dole queues. It is time that we discussed reorganising the schemes that are available to people in those circumstances. The back-to-education allowance, for example, is one such scheme that needs to be changed to reflect the current economic crisis. In light of the downturn in the construction industry, it is unacceptable that any scheme would operate on the same basis as it did during the Celtic tiger.

I call for a debate on the role of the job creation agencies, particularly IDA Ireland, which is not promoting employment outside the large urban centres. Recently it pulled jobs out of one town in Cork and put them into another. Given IDA Ireland's remit of encouraging job creation, particularly in rural areas, it is a disgrace that an agency that should be executing Government policy is moving jobs from one town to another. That is completely unacceptable.

I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister for Defence to attend the House to outline his plans for the refloating of the Asgard II. That vessel sank to the bottom of the Bay of Biscay three months ago and the Minister has not yet made a decision on refloating it.

Photo of Diarmuid WilsonDiarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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He has.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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As the insurance policy on the vessel is worth €3.8 million and it would cost €2 million to refloat it, an economic case cannot be made to ignore the issue. The national sail training programme has been called into question because the Asgard II was the main training vessel. Are we to take it that the programme has been abandoned? Is the sinking of the vessel being used as an excuse to abandon that programme, which has trained thousands of young people to sail? It is disgraceful that the Minister has not made a decision on the issue.

Every year, the commercialisation of Christmas gets worse. Blatant Christmas advertisements were broadcast on television in October this year. That over-commercialisation completely misses the point of Christmas. In this context, the decision to ban the Veritas advertisement was bizarre. The Broadcasting Complaints Commission needs to reconsider its role if it continues to ban such advertisements while allowing Christmas advertising to begin in October. I respectfully suggest that it should ban Libertas rather than Veritas.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I will call two Members who did not get the opportunity to contribute on yesterday's Order of Business due to time constraints. The first Member is Senator Coffey.

Photo of Paudie CoffeyPaudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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I refer very briefly to the pork crisis. I thank the Leader for making time available today for statements on this matter. The agrifood sector has significant potential to exploit international markets but it is badly damaged. We must ask ourselves why this crisis happened and how we responded to it. I hope that will be addressed in today's debate.

We do not have a State laboratory with the capacity to test for dioxins. A similar problem arose on foot of the cryptosporidium outbreak in Galway, when samples had to be sent to the UK for testing. The HSE is exporting cervical smear samples to America for testing. How can we, as a country, justify this and is it any wonder we bemoan the fact we have very few science graduates at this time? What kind of message is the Government sending out to young people, as it is clear science is not a priority? Recent cuts in education which will affect science subjects in schools also make it clear that we will have lesser science subjects in future, with correspondingly weaker graduates. It is clear that science is a low priority for the Government.

What incentive would exist for youngsters to do science in schools and colleges if the private sector was not there? I ask the Leader to take the lead on the issue. I call for a debate on science and science education in this country as a matter that must be addressed. It is no good paying lip service to the matter; we must debate it to discover the underlying problems. It is a very low priority for Government currently on the signals it is sending out.

I put on record my abhorrence of the recent murder of that unfortunate man, Aidan O'Kane. I am a parent to two children and I am very saddened that my generation has passed on this type of society and legacy to our children. People in here would agree that our parents did not pass on this uncaring and valueless society to us. We have a responsibility as a society, as parents and people in this regard. We must all ask ourselves if we want to pass this legacy to our children.

Where does responsibility lie and where is the Government's role in this? I do not need to remind the Leader that when Fianna Fáil was in Opposition, it continuously went on about zero tolerance. We all remember it. The Government has been in power for more than 11 years and what do we have? There is murder of ordinary citizens on our streets and they are unprotected in their homes, by all accounts. There is increased use of hard drugs on our streets and greater rates of gun crime. There is no respect for the Garda and criminals are running our communities.

We must wake up and the Government needs to ask itself when it will act. Now is the time for action and I call on the Leader to organise a debate on justice and criminality, which is urgently needed. Society is calling for it and we depend on politicians and Government to show leadership on the issue.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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I also refer to the murder in East Wall. It is my understanding that a further two people have been arrested in connection with it. East Wall is in my constituency and is a part of Dublin I know very well. I stood on the exact spot where the tragedy took place last Tuesday and know very well how people are feeling about what is taking place at the moment and the sheer despair running through the community.

I take this opportunity to put on the record three truths that must be addressed regarding what is happening in the country. The first is that in many inner city communities the people have no faith in the ability of the Garda to protect them from serious crime. That is a real indictment of where we stand as a society. Yesterday afternoon, two families contacted me to say their homes or property were shot at as well. These people have no involvement in any kind of criminal activity. The only thing they have done is to have a home in a certain area.

The second truth we must face is the fact that there is a serious parenting crisis in our country. There is a very small number of families that have completely abdicated any responsibility for where their children or teenagers are at night or during the day and what they are up to. We can put gardaí on every corner and lane in the city but unless we tackle that issue, we will not deliver the type of society we seek.

The final and most disturbing truth is that we now find ourselves in the position where some minors — children — are able to get their hands on guns. The horror of this must sink in. We read about this happening in some countries far away, get scared and think it is terrible but it is happening in our own city. Our response to this must be comprehensive and serious. I was sickened to see the Taoiseach point to the tragedy and state that it shows the Government is taking the right action on handguns. It is an important step but it points to how much more needs to be done.

I join with Senator Coffey in calling for a debate on this. I repeat a call from this side of the House that was made a number of months ago that we have a debate on all the different Departments which must make a contribution in dealing with this issue. These are the Departments of Education and Science, Social and Family Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Unless each of them plays a part in dealing with this, we will not deliver the kind of society we want to pass to the next generation.

I second Senator O'Toole's amendment to the Order of Business but I differ mildly from the comments of my colleague, Senator McCarthy. We do not need to ban Libertas but must encourage its members to get out into the open for a serious debate on the kind of Europe they want.

Photo of Eugene ReganEugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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That is the appropriate response.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We all appeal to the concerned parties in the pork issue to finalise an arrangement and begin production again. Farmers will be protesting today because of the delays as they are very frustrated. They are also party to the negotiations. We should lead by example and have pork products on the menu straight away. Some 90% of the production process is perfect and pork, beef, sausages and rashers should be on the menus in the self-service and main restaurants.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We will have a debate on that matter later today.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We can lead by example. I have no fear whatever about the quality of the Irish product.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is missing his breakfast.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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We should show exactly what we can do as a form of leadership in this regard. It would be very practical. People are very sad about the damage being done to the economy.

I ask the Leader to consider a debate on the following matter. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly 60 years ago today, on 10 December 1948, in Paris. We should recognise this milestone.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The membership of the commission in charge of the declaration was broadly representative of the global community and included Eleanor Roosevelt as chairperson. It was a great honour for the wife of an American President to be chairperson of the organisation. We were not members of the UN at the time but adopted the charter and we have ratified the six core UN human rights treaties, as well as a wide range of other international human rights instruments.

The broad principles of the declaration are almost universally accepted, and although it is a fundamental document of the United Nations and forms part of customary international law, a human rights declaration can be truly effective only if it can be enforced by an international court. For this reason, on International Human Rights Day, I draw the attention of the House to the matter and ask the Leader to discuss last year's report of the human rights committee of the Council of Europe, of which I am a member.

The report called for the accession of the European Union to the European Convention on Human Rights and was overwhelmingly endorsed by the parliamentary assembly. The Lisbon treaty would allow and require the EU institutions to sign up to the convention, which would mean the institutions of the EU, as well as member states, would be subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights, the only international court which directly enforces a human rights document.

I call on the Leader to give this very early consideration as it is an important issue. It is only by taking further steps like this to consolidate the international community's commitment to human rights conventions and declarations that the principles set out in the universal declaration will be universally enforced.

Today is very special and we in this country have a great record on human rights. We cannot always be proud of some actions taken——

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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What about the Charities Bill?

Photo of Dominic HanniganDominic Hannigan (Labour)
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The Charities Bill will be before the House tomorrow. Will the Senator be here then?

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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In that regard——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We are on the Order of Business.

Photo of Dominic HanniganDominic Hannigan (Labour)
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Report Stage is tomorrow.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Will the Senator support the promotion of human rights through the Charities Bill? Show us the money and the colour of the Senator's support.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——I ask the authorities to allow the Nigerian mother and her two children to remain in this country.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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That would be the most symbolic gesture in recognition of today's events. I call on the Government to allow this and to act before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. We should make the decision ourselves today.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The point has been made.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am very glad Senator Leyden raised this matter as I intended to raise it myself. I strongly support his suggestion that Pamela Izevbekhai should be allowed to remain in this country. I have written to the Minister suggesting this should be done on a humanitarian basis, and there is no better day than today.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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We are used to praising ourselves with regard to our human rights records. People sometimes say I got my justice in the gay rights issue but I did not get it in this country. I did not get it through the European Union either but through the European Court of Human Rights. At the end of the 19th century, the great French novelist Émile Zola rebuked a government by saying "J'accuse", I accuse. I accuse this Government of having the worst record on human rights of any Government I remember.

Photo of Camillus GlynnCamillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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Rubbish.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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That is why I want a debate on this subject. If you want to hear the evidence, I will give it to you.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should address his remarks through the Chair.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Through the Chair, of course. I am sure the Chair wants to hear this too because I am sure the Chair must be as ashamed of our record as I am. I know where the Cathaoirleach's heart lies in human rights matters so it must gall him to have to preside over the farce that is going on here.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should not spoil the day.

11:00 am

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Yesterday, we discussed the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, but it included a sneaky little provision, which was provided to the House in an unreadable manner, smuggling in the destruction of the Combat Poverty Agency. How is that for human rights? The Human Rights Commission has effectively been neutered in defiance of the Good Friday Agreement. In addition, the Government has refused to include human rights under the Charities Bill. I have a briefing from Amnesty International, FLAC, ICCL and Frontline, which states "It is clear from the Seanad debate on 4th December that there are no legal constraints raised by the Attorney General on the inclusion of the advancement of human rights." Why are they not doing so? It is perfectly clear that there is an anti-human rights agenda in this Government.

The document that came from Amnesty International to celebrate International Human Rights Day states that under the 1945 charter, Ireland is obliged to incorporate the rights set out in the treaty to be ratified. However, Ireland has failed in particular to incorporate rights that impact on people living in poverty.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can discuss that matter if we get the debate.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am asking for another matter.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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In that context, when will the immigration and asylum Bill come before this House? That is a disgrace. How dare the Government produce this and continue with a chairman who is so discredited. I have never known this to be done before. It is a blatant violation of human rights.

Today's newspapers report on another shameful asylum case where somebody is to be sent back to the Congo. I know a bit about the Congo; I was born there and I have followed the events in that tragic country. Here is a man who is clearly going to be butchered the minute he gets off the plane. The case went to the Refugee Council and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal — rats they are——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made his point.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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——but it was overturned because that decision was unsafe. When are we going to do something about asylum and human rights?

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Norris has made his point.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I am asking for this debate. May I also say something else?

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Please.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The format of the Order of Business has been raised and I have pushed this matter continually. It is obviously not a matter of time because we routinely meet ten minutes late. In his generous and decent way, the Cathaoirleach takes people who were not heard the last time. Why do we have to take them out of sequence, however? Why not take the whole lot? It means issues that were more relevant yesterday are still brought up today. Everybody should be taken.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Some people overrun their time and that is why others miss out.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The time should be extended then. With regard to the question of gun crime, which was raised yesterday and today, yesterday's meeting in the Dáil Chamber of former women Members of the Oireachtas provided a wonderful example of a gun-toting lassie, Countess Markievicz, a toff like Seán MacBride, who rather enjoyed shooting the Irish peasantry.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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That is very unfair.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made his point.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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What kind of example was that when one is talking about gun crime?

Photo of Cecilia KeaveneyCecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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I can relate to the woman Senator Norris referred to a minute ago. Yesterday was the 90th anniversary of the 1918 election that produced the First Dáil. In that context, we should evaluate the current Oireachtas Commission's outreach programme to see if it will target the participation of women in politics. Yesterday's events proved how long it has taken to raise the percentage of women participating in politics — the number of women who participated in parliament only half filled the Dáil Chamber. I hope that in the coming decade that percentage will improve. It is a hardy annual and the chestnut that is raised after every election. Local elections will be held in June 2009 and we should consider the matter from a cross-sectoral viewpoint as well as the political and educational perspectives. In addition, we must consider the work of the Oireachtas Commission to see if there is a mechanism to tease out the problems and increase the percentage of women participating in politics.

On a different but related note, this is the final day of the international campaign to recognise the issue of domestic violence. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the House to discuss the matter. Since 1996, 146 women have been murdered in the Republic of Ireland. Some 92 of them were killed in their own homes, and 107 of the murders were resolved. Some 50% of the victims were murdered by a partner or ex-partner, while 40 were killed by someone they knew — in other words, a relation or acquaintance. This week we discussed the serious issue that arose in East Wall, but domestic violence is going on all the time. It merits a particular focus and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should be invited to address the House as soon as possible.

I agree with Senator Donohoe that we need a broad sectoral approach to parenting and children. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should examine the implementation of the Children Act which places responsibility on parents for the negative actions of their children. I wonder how many people have been through that system to date because the legislation has been in place for some time? I do not believe it is being pursued, however.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made her point and a number of other Senators are waiting.

Photo of Cecilia KeaveneyCecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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While it might sound like a negative approach, if parents got the support of the courts system with parenting skills, it would have an overall positive effect of supporting them and helping them to improve their parenting.

Later we will discuss the recall of Irish pork and bacon products, but we should push the all-Ireland dimension of the resolution as a confidence-building measure. It is a cross-Border issue, as we in the north west are aware, but I know the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who is from a Border area, will support that initiative.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I strongly support the proposed amendment to the Order of Business by Senator O'Toole and seconded by Senator Donohoe. We recognise the importance of education. Some 70,000 people gave voice to their concerns about this matter in Dublin recently and we cannot continue to ignore it. I do not think it is the Leader's intention to ignore it, but I strongly support what Senator O'Toole said. I also strongly support the points made by Senators O'Toole, Norris and others on the proposed absence of an Order of Business on Friday. It beggars belief that an Order Paper is produced without an Order of Business. As well as being inconsistent, it is demeaning to this House. I would not like to think that is the Leader's intention, however, because he has been a loyal servant of the House for many years. Let us get this right. Nobody wants to be disruptive; we want to be constructive in all the matters we are dealing with.

I also agree with the comments of Senators Coffey and Donohoe on crime and I support their call for a debate on that issue. I also welcome the debate we will have today on the recall of Irish pork and bacon products. It concerns the absence of inspections of the premises at the source of this crisis.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can discuss that during the debate.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Of course. That is a systems failure in the Department, which needs to be addressed. I welcome the forthcoming debate.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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I support Senator Fitzgerald's call for a debate on the equality issue. Today is International Human Rights Day and I will focus on the lack of human rights for older people. Over 10% of our population are over 65 and that figure is set to double in the next 30 years. There are approximately 500,000 people aged over 65 in Ireland. In my document entitled A New Approach to Aging and Ageism I spelt out how a person under 65 is seen as an asset to the country, while someone over 65 is seen as a liability. A woman aged over 65 years cannot avail of free BreastCheck screening and a woman aged over 60 years has no free cervical cancer screening. A person aged 65 years or over cannot have a ten-year driving licence. Instead, he or she can have a three-year driving licence or, if this cannot be granted for medical reasons, a one-year licence. Worldwide travel insurance for the elderly is €100 more expensive than it is for someone aged under 65 years.

When the Government was being formed in June 2007, I worked with it to ensure it delivered the abolition of mandatory retirement at 65 years of age. It should follow through on this initiative.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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Following discussions, The Irish Times and I have agreed to work together to launch its active life award on a North-South basis. This will highlight the fight against ageism and promote justice for and the human rights of older people on the island.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Eugene ReganEugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader is doing it again in relation to criminal law in the EU sphere. On today's Order of Business is a motion re Eurojust, back from committee, to be taken without debate. Much has been said about how ill informed the population is regarding EU matters, but the Leader seems determined to ensure the House is also ill informed, especially in terms of important legislation into which Senators should have an insight. If the Taoiseach announces a second Lisbon treaty referendum, Senators must sell the message. The Leader has a responsibility in this regard.

While I appreciate that losing a vote last week has been of considerable embarrassment to the Government side, those benches should get over it and allow Friday's Order of Business as normal. I hope that the Leader takes this suggestion on board.

Will the Leader ask the Minister to address an issue when we debate the pigmeat and beef industries? We seem to be going from one extreme to another. The Government seems to have conveyed messages——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We can have all of this in today's debate. To be fair to the Leader, he arranged it on short notice.

Photo of Eugene ReganEugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I have a question for him. It has been reported that the beef samples were two to three times above the legal limit. It is difficult to explain the situation to German and French supermarkets. According to telephone conversations I held this morning, exporters have been asked to collect their beef despite that the Irish Government has not recalled beef. The suggestion is that we are two or three times above the legal limit. It is like someone suggesting that driving while two or three times above the legal alcohol limit is fine.

Since 1 September, 3,000 cattle have been slaughtered. Given our traceability system in respect of beef, it would not be comparable——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator will have an ideal opportunity to discuss this matter with the relevant Minister.

Photo of Eugene ReganEugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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The supply of cattle in question is limited and may already have been consumed. If the Government had indicated that this specific quantity of beef should have been recalled pending further tests, a line could have been drawn under the matter.

I referred last week to the 6,500 Irish people who have pensions with Equitable Life. According to the Financial Times, more than 1 million policyholders in the UK who lost money in the Equitable Life debacle are due to learn the UK Government's response next week to a report that described a decade of regulatory failings. I asked the Leader to inquire of the responsible Minister whether any representations had been made to the UK Government to ensure that, if the compensation fund called for by the European Parliament and the UK's parliamentary ombudsman comes into effect, Irish policyholders would benefit equally. This is a relevant question, given the imminent decision by the UK Government.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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The House has played a central role in the issue of human rights and our voices have been heard many times. Given our history, it is important that we dwell more on the spirit of the law and less on its letter. We should avail of every opportunity to show mercy and charity when we witness a particular plight or know of people who feel vulnerable. Most human rights issues, apart from the considerable debate on the Charities Bill, were raised on the Order of Business, which is an important part of the working of the Seanad.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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It is an opportunity to raise topical issues. However, yesterday's procedural gymnastics did not do the House any credit.

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I wonder what the public perception is of our wasting more than two hours traipsing in and out for votes in light of issues such as unemployment, the food industry, the Lisbon treaty and so on.

Photo of John Gerard HanafinJohn Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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The Opposition is quiet now.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Last night, we felt that the time available to discuss the Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill was restricted.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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No, we did not. Who was restricted?

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the matter of not having an Order of Business on Friday, it is my understanding that Friday is additional to our normal sitting days.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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We are employed for the full week.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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We will have the extra day to be able to address urgent matters, including legislation.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Government is running scared.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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This is the idea behind a Friday sitting. There is nothing wrong with not having an Order of Business.

Yesterday's events were alien to the House. The cut and thrust of a normal amendment or opposing the Order of Business is one matter, but neither was the case yesterday. When the public becomes aware of it, we will have undermined the excellent reputation that the House has built up.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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The Government was playing around with the Order of Business. It was that side's responsibility. We were perfectly right and will do it again.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Buttimer, without interruption.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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As a long-standing Member, will the Leader review Friday's schedule? With the greatest respect for Senator Ó Murchú and in the hope that the Leader is not involved, the Government——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Questions to the Leader.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Government is afraid to be held accountable in the House. I will give an example and ask the Leader to facilitate a debate on two matters. The Minister for Education and Science has not attended the House since 14 October to discuss the education cutbacks. He is ashamed of what he has done. This is the first debate required.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Questions to the Leader. It is not a debate on the Minister.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Statements have been made in the House concerning FÁS, unemployment and consumer affairs, but the senior line Minister, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, has not attended. Why is that? Why have the two Ministers in the eye of the political storm over education and unemployment not attended the House since the budget? This fundamental question must be answered.

An Order of Business is necessary on Friday because we must hear the Government's views and express our own on the important issues of the day. It is what makes the House relevant.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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There are only five minutes on the Order of Business remaining and six Senators are still offering. I ask Members to be brief.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I congratulate Senator Bacik on organising yesterday's event involving past and current female Members of the Oireachtas.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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The event provided a glorious opportunity for women to reflect on how far they have progressed in the past 90 years. Lessons should be learned from occurred yesterday.

I will not repeat the matters to which other Senators referred. However, there is one issue which disappeared from the agenda for two or three days as a result of the food crisis, namely, the horrific murder that occurred in the East Wall area. When confronted by groups of children of 12, 13 and 14 years of age gathering together in the absence of parental control, one must ask where we and society are going wrong. Who has responsibility in this regard? Is it the Garda, parents, teachers, Deputies and Senators or people in general? There is a need for a debate on this matter. Such a debate should focus on parents and their role and responsibilities. Members can shout from the rooftops about this issue all day but it will do no good, particularly if by 6 p.m. young boys and girls are running around the streets under no one's control.

There is a need for a major debate on society. The economy is in a downturn and people will be obliged to change their lifestyles, the way they work and even their jobs. It will also be necessary to change society. We must start from scratch. Let us engage in a debate that will encompass everything — human rights, whether particular agencies should be rationalised, etc. A full day's business should be devoted to a debate on this issue. I compliment Senator Ó Murchú on referring to what occurred on the Order of Business in the House yesterday when there were major issues to discuss.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has made her point.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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Let us cut out such behaviour and get on with the real debates aimed at discovering how we might assist society.

Photo of Feargal QuinnFeargal Quinn (Independent)
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Some weeks ago I referred to a letter I had received from a person whose wife had lost her eye when a number of teenagers threw eggs at her. That was an horrific occurrence. I had no idea that egg throwing would be a factor in the death of a father of one in the East Wall area in recent days. I accept Senator Ormonde's point to the effect that there is a need for people to take personal responsibility. We cannot solve problems of this nature by introducing new legislation; we must instead impress upon people the importance of personal responsibility. I understand the response of the community in East Wall to Garda inquiries has been positive and helpful. I hope such co-operation will help us to solve problems of this nature and that we will not be obliged to introduce new laws to assist in this regard.

Photo of Ivor CallelyIvor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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As previous speakers noted, today marks the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is fitting that we should acknowledge its success. It was drawn up in 1948 and has proved to be the inspiration for rights movements across the globe. There is no doubt that human rights-based approaches make rights real for people. Will the Leader arrange, whenever possible, for an audit to take place with regard to Ireland's success in the area of human rights and the issues that need to be addressed? I record my appreciation for and solidarity with groups such as Amnesty International and Front Line, the organisation for the protection of human rights defenders. I congratulate those in the media, particularly Seán Love, Roddy Doyle and Gerry Smith, whose work appeared in the excellent publication that accompanied yesterday's edition of The Irish Times.

I support Senator Mary White's comments on the issue of ageism. I have made a number of public pronouncements on the matter over an extended period. If we engage in a debate on the matter, we might consider issues such as the dignity of older people and the various rights to which they are entitled.

I listened with interest to Senator McCarthy's comments on the Asgard. I support his views on the importance of the vessel in training people to sail. Like many thousands of individuals, two of my children trained on the Asgard and had a wonderful experience. I understand it is the desire and intention of the Minister for Defence to raise the Asgard. However, it will be necessary to await the arrival of suitable weather in the Bay of Biscay before an appropriate survey can be carried out to ensure the vessel can be raised in a safe manner and that value can be obtained for the taxpayer's money in this regard.

Photo of Dominic HanniganDominic Hannigan (Labour)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to contribute. On Senator Ó Murchú's comments on Friday sittings, it must be noted that we are living in exceptional times and that the Seanad will have met on four occasions on Fridays by the time this session ends. Friday sittings are no longer exceptional. As a result, some form of Order of Business should be held. I suggest a compromise. I accept that the Leader is under pressure but we could limit the Order of Business to 30 minutes and also commence our proceedings at 10.15 a.m. I ask the Leader to give consideration to this arrangement because it would probably be of assistance in accommodating everyone's needs.

The document circulated to Deputies and Senators today by Amnesty International to mark the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights contains ten action points, one of which states: "Interestingly, the Government tends to be more enthusiastic about incorporating human rights treaties where the beneficiaries are mainly outside the State rather than those benefiting people living in Ireland". Tomorrow we will have the opportunity to include in the Charities Bill a clause specifically relating to the promotion of human rights. The Labour Party will be pushing an amendment to this effect and will be asking for support from Members on all sides.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, McCarthy, Leyden, Keaveney, Coghlan, Regan, Ó Murchú, Buttimer, Ormonde and Hannigan expressed their opinion on the taking of the Order of Business at the commencement of Friday sittings. As stated last week, having an Order of Business on a Friday is not the norm, it is actually a complete exception. We were obliged to arrange three Friday sittings in order to accommodate the taking of statements on the economy, the Health Bill and the Finance Bill. We will be obliged to wait until the Dáil has disposed of the Finance Bill in its entirety before we can deal with it on Friday, 19 December. The position is similar on the taking of the Health Bill on Friday next. Friday sittings are not the norm. I am concerned about colleagues who live in counties Donegal, Kerry and Cork and other places some distance from the House——

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We do not object to being here.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I am making my views known to Members. I listened to the contributions made by Members on all sides in respect of this matter.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader should be allowed to continue without interruption.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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By the end of this session there will have been three Friday sittings within the month of December. Due to the fact that the model used in Dáil Éireann was so successful, I thought that, on a trial basis, we would adopt it and commence business at 10.30 a.m. on Fridays with the relevant Minister in place from the outset. Last Friday's sitting was extremely successful. It was fabulous to be present as a Member of Seanad Éireann to witness how the affairs of the House were conducted.

I fully respect and support the entitlement of Members to bring matters to the attention of the House on the Order of Business. I suggest the current arrangements for Friday sittings remain in place and that the leaders of the various groups come together in the near future to review the position and discover how we might progress. Nothing is set in stone. I have an open mind on the matter.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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If there is an opening, it is tiny.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader to continue without interruption. I will ask Members to leave if they continue to intervene.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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It is fine for Members who live in Dublin to be here on Fridays. However, it is difficult for Senators who arrive in the city on Monday, leave the House at 5 p.m. or 6 p.m. on Friday and, having travelled long distances, only arrive home at 1 a.m. on Saturday. I ask Members who live in close proximity to the House to bear in mind the difficulties which Members, who are representative of the country as a whole, must take into account. I am doing this purely and solely on humanitarian grounds in respect of Members who live far away from the House.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I thought the Leader was doing it on principle.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Leader is not convincing.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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If it is the case that Members wish to have an Order of Business during Friday sittings, I have no difficulty in ordering it for 9.30 a.m.

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Good on you.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Last Friday was a shining example of just how successful are Friday sittings, as ordered. Be that it as it may, nothing is, as I stated, written in stone. I have an open mind on the issue.

Photo of Fidelma Healy EamesFidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader do it tomorrow?

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the leaders of the groups for their co-operation and support which they give me in carrying out, in an orderly way, the manner in which we conduct our affairs in this Upper House of Parliament.

On the debate in regard to the recall of Irish pork and bacon products, I look forward to the presence in the House this afternoon of the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent. I thank the Taoiseach, the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Brendan Smith and Minister of State, Deputy Mary Wallace for their hard work on behalf of the people of Ireland.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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They and vested interests and parties must address this challenge which our nation is facing. I hope that today we will be able to give the all-clear for a return to the shelves tomorrow of our Irish produce.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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There is no reason this cannot be done. On my way to the House this morning I heard on radio the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Deputy Martin Cullen, confirm sponsorship of the Irish Open for the next three years, which is good news. I am an ardent golfer and proud of it. This is a great opportunity for us given Sky television will broadcast this event for 28 hours to all countries in Europe where Irish produce is being sold on a daily basis.

Last year, I complimented, in the House, Bord Bia for its promotion of Ireland during the Ryder Cup in the K Club.

Photo of Mary WhiteMary White (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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It was a shining example of good marketing of Irish produce. I agree with Senator Frances Fitzgerald that Bord Bia should receive an increased allocation from Government to market Irish produce, of which we are very proud. The opportunity, as announced this morning by the Minister, Deputy Cullen, in respect of the three year sponsorship of the Irish Open, is to be welcomed. Members will be aware that Sky broadcasts to every country in Europe and this will provide us with an opportunity to repeat what was done during the Ryder Cup at the K Club. What Bord Bia did, in terms of marketing, was a shining example to all of us.

Senators Leyden, Ó Murchú, Callely and Hannigan offered their congratulations in respect of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Members may also have heard on radio this morning the voice of the former First Lady, Eleanor Roosevelt. I join in the expression of congratulations in this regard.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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What about me?

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I congratulate Senator Bacik, the pioneer of yesterday's event involving past and current Members in respect of the 90th anniversary of the 1918 general election.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank the Leader for his congratulations.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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It was enlightening to see many former Members. I recall many famous ladies from all sides of the House who have passed on to their eternal rewards. I congratulate and wish well all those who made this historic occasion possible. It was a terrific day for former and current Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas. I look forward to many more occasions during which we can all celebrate our membership of both Houses of the Oireachtas, Dáil and Seanad.

Senators called for a debate on climate change. I have already given a commitment in respect of such a debate. Senators O'Toole, Coghlan and Buttimer asked about comments on the Order of Business in respect of items returning from committee. I wish to inform the House that I have no difficulty leaving aside a short amount of time to allow a Senator to comment on a matter returning from committee. The difficulty that arises is that I send out the Order of Business on a Thursday in respect of the following Tuesday and very often committees do not meet until Tuesday or Wednesday. In my opinion, the most important issues that arise in this regard relate to EU scrutiny, which is a serious challenge for Members of the Oireachtas and for committees. I propose, subject to agreement with the other leaders next Tuesday, that where an issue arises at a committee meeting on a Wednesday morning on which a Member of the Seanad wishes to make a point, if such Member contacts their leader or my office by early afternoon on Wednesday, I will allocate 30 minutes for that matter to be discussed the following morning, if that is in order. I agree with the sentiments expressed by various Members in that regard.

On the call for a debate on education, I contacted the Minister's office yesterday and am awaiting word on the matter. I will report to the House tomorrow morning on whether it is possible to make time available next week for such a debate, bearing in mind the Minister's diary and this House's schedule for next week, which is an unbelievable sight in terms of the amount of work before us and the late sittings required to facilitate that.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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On a point of information, eight weeks have passed since the budget was announced.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators McCarthy, Buttimer and Callely——

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Buttimer, please allow the Leader to continue without interruption.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Some two months have passed since the budget was announced and the Minister for Education and Science has not yet been available to come into this House.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is not a point of information.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators McCarthy, Buttimer and Callely called for a debate on the role of the IDA. I have no difficulty in making time available for such a debate. Time will be made available for a whole day debate on this issue following the Christmas recess.

On the raising of the Asgard II, as Senator Callely correctly pointed out to the House, the Minister supports this proposal.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Why then does he not do it?

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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As I understand it, the plans in this regard are well underway. As regards the Veritas advertisement for radio, anyone wishing to make a complaint in this regard can do so to the Broadcasting Complaints Commission.

Senators Coffey, Donohoe, Keaveney, Ormonde and Quinn expressed strong views in regard to the murder of Aidan O'Kane. As stated earlier this morning, this is an issue for society and, in particular parents, and the Departments of Education and Science, Social and Family Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We need to discuss this matter in the House with the Minister. I will endeavour to provide time for such a debate. As I stated, yesterday I passed on my condolences on behalf of the House in respect of this terrible tragedy, which we do not want to see happen again. Whatever we can do, we should do. The concern and experiences expressed by many Senators in the House this morning may be of assistance to the Minister in addressing this issue.

Senators Leyden and Norris expressed their support for human rights. Today is an important day for Pamela Izevbekhai and her family and we await the outcome of this case this evening. Senator Norris called for a debate on emigration and asked when the emigration Bill will come before the House. I will inform the House of the position in this regard tomorrow morning.

Senator Keaveney called for an evaluation of the work of women in the Oireachtas and the work of the Commission. I have no difficulty in making time available for a debate on this matter. She also called for a debate on domestic violence and requested that take place at the same time as the proposed debate on justice. It would be timely to have such a debate. I will endeavour to arrange for it to take place at the earliest time possible when we resume following the Christmas recess.

Senator Mary White called for a debate on the role of senior citizens, those over 65 years of age, in our society. As the Senator said, half a million people over the age of 65 years now live in our country. She outlined serious concerns about the lack of the BreastCheck service for ladies over 60 years of age and about more minor matters such as the higher cost of worldwide travel insurance for older people and other issues.

I congratulate the Senator on her report and on getting The Irish Times life achievement award, which covers the Thirty-two Counties. The Irish Times and Senator Mary White will highlight the fight against ageism and promote justice and the human rights of older Irish people. She is to be commended on that.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The contributions that those aged 65 and over make to their communities and society in general should not be undervalued. That this innovative award is for the Thirty-two Counties is to be highly commended. We look forward to participating and assisting Senator Mary White in any way we can in this House to make this an outstanding success, which I know it will be.

Photo of Pat MoylanPat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Toole has proposed amendment No. 1 to the Order of Business: "That statements on the impact of the cuts proposed in education be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Senator O'Toole asked me to press it.

Amendment put.

The Dail Divided:

For the motion: 20 (Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Paddy Burke, Jerry Buttimer, Paudie Coffey, Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins, Pearse Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Frances Fitzgerald, Dominic Hannigan, Fidelma Healy Eames, Michael McCarthy, Nicky McFadden, David Norris, John Paul Phelan, Feargal Quinn, Eugene Regan, Brendan Ryan, Liam Twomey)

Against the motion: 28 (Dan Boyle, Martin Brady, Larry Butler, Ivor Callely, Ciarán Cannon, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Maria Corrigan, Mark Daly, Déirdre de Búrca, John Ellis, Geraldine Feeney, Camillus Glynn, John Gerard Hanafin, Cecilia Keaveney, Tony Kett, Terry Leyden, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Labhrás Ó Murchú, Francis O'Brien, Denis O'Donovan, Fiona O'Malley, Ned O'Sullivan, Ann Ormonde, Kieran Phelan, Jim Walsh, Mary White, Diarmuid Wilson)

Tellers: Tá, Senators Ivana Bacik and David Norris; Níl, Senators Déirdre de Búrca and Diarmuid Wilson.

Amendment declared lost.

Order of Business agreed to.