Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, for taking this issue on the Adjournment tonight. I am raising the proposal to increase fees in the Northern third level institutions and the impact this will have on Border students, particularly in Donegal. I declare my interest by saying that I spent seven years at the University of Ulster, Jordanstown. Students from Donegal tried to go to the colleges nearest to us and I was facilitated by the fact that we had no fees here and there was none there. Subsequent to my finishing college there was a gradual imposition of fees in the North and that has had a considerable impact as regards the availability of those colleges to southern students. While I say "southern students", Donegal is part of the province of Ulster so it is a strange term in that sense.

The Minister of State has recently received a report to the effect that the nine year olds are happy, content and physically active. I would like to believe that at the other end of the spectrum, when they are leaving as opposed to just starting in the school system, we would look at the economic impact. The north west is a region that continually needs high skilled graduates. We believe there is a great workforce there and great opportunities, but like the rest of Ulster, there is no great impetus as regards employment and people being able to stay in the area. If a person attends college in a particular area, he or she tends to stay there on graduating. Ulster, which has nine counties, needs the drive of people educated in the area, with no brain drain from there. People might say that we may have fees here in the next year or two, but the problem is how to deal with the realities of the moment.

The reality is that there are fees in the North, which make it less available to students and they have to leave their own areas to attend college in Dublin, Cork or Galway. The Northern institutions are trying to introduce fees for higher rather than further education whereby southern students, that is, students from the Republic, will be asked to pay fees. That was resisted by me and others as it seemed to be unconstitutional, and it had to be withdrawn.

However, under the Good Friday Agreement some students in Ireland have to pay fees while others do not. There is also the situation whereby when these students go to the colleges, they are not eligible for bursaries. Surely bursaries should be for students, for example, the people gaining the best results or whatever. It should be emphasised that the Minister for Education in the North is not actually in charge of the universities, which come under Sir Reg Empey, MLA, who is Minister for Employment and Learning. That is another difficulty and I know Mr. Mervyn Storey, MLA, chairman of the education committee, recognises that there is no continuity in their system between second and third levels.

The reason I am pushing this is that some of the colleges are within 15 miles of where I live and where my constituents live. For that reason they do not get the full grants. They then apply for a bursary, to be told that because they are from the Republic, they are not eligible. Fees are imposed on them, which, it seems, will increase in the next academic year. The students will then be faced with the choice of whether to stay local to graduate, with the idea that they should remain in the area and be employed there, or take the option of going elsewhere. They can choose to attend college in the Republic. I emphasise that we have an excellent institute of technology in Letterkenny, which is going from strength to strength. It is accredited to grant third level degrees, but not all courses are available. In an all-Ireland post-Good Friday Agreement context, people from the nine counties of Ulster must go to Scotland because there are no fees there. They then tend to stay in Scotland or elsewhere in the UK and do not return to Ireland. The purpose is self-defeating. The Minister, Sir Reg Empey, has launched a review of the hardship some students are facing.

I raise this adjournment motion tonight to ask that we make an input to that review, to put forward the case that there are serious impacts financially for students from Donegal and the rest of the Border counties in going into the North. It is to the detriment of the universities there as well as to the economy of Ulster into the future. While there is an ongoing review, there should not be talk about increasing fees, particularly when the supports for students are not there. The review will consider the hardship for those students. Donegal and other Border county students are being denied bursaries and I ask whether they are welcome in Northern third level institutions, which are responsible for allocating them, as distinct from the various educational departments in the North.

I leave it to the Minister of State to ask whether there is potential for us to make an input into Sir Reg Empey's review and to accept and realise that our students are a valuable addition to the Northern colleges and should not be deterred from attending them, as appears to be happening.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am taking this adjournment on behalf of my colleague, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, Minister for Education and Science.

I propose to use this opportunity to outline to this House the formal structures for co-operation in the education sphere between the Department of Education and Science and the Department of Education in Northern Ireland and existing arrangements under the Department's third level student support schemes relating to students from this State who undertake courses in Northern Ireland.

The general context is that the Department's North-South co-operation unit manages the Department of Education and Science's funding and co-ordinates co-operation activities within the education sector with the Department of Education and the Department of Employment and Learning in Northern Ireland. The Department of Education in Northern Ireland has responsibility for all school and youth based education matters in Northern Ireland.

The Department of Education and Science formally engages with this Department at ministerial level on co-operation issues under the auspices of the North-South Ministerial Council in four main areas, special education needs, educational underachievement, teacher mobility and school and youth exchanges.

The Department of Employment and Learning has responsibility for further, vocational and higher education matters as well as employment matters in Northern Ireland. The Minister, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, wishes to reiterate what he clarified in this House when a similar motion was debated on 21 October 2008, namely, that the Department of Education and Science does not formally engage with the Department of Employment and Learning within the structures of the North-South Ministerial Council. As the Minister has explained, this is due to the provisions of the Belfast and St. Andrews Agreements, which designate the specific sectoral areas for co-operation. During that debate, the Minister also clarified that the Department engages in co-operative activities with the Department of Employment and Learning at official level on a number of issues and gave a number of examples.

Specifically on the issue of student supports for those pursuing university courses, the Minister undertook, within the parameters of existing liaison mechanisms with his Northern Ireland counterparts, to do all he could to make them aware of the concerns raised by the Senator. In that regard, the Minister asked his officials to relay those concerns to the Department of Employment and Learning.

Deputy Batt O'Keeffe also explained on the previous occasion that under the Department's third level free fees initiative the Exchequer meets the tuition fees of eligible students, including those from Northern Ireland and other EU member states, who are attending approved undergraduate courses in the State. The main eligibility conditions of the initiative are that students must be first-time undergraduates, must hold EU nationality or official refugee status and must have been ordinarily resident in an EU member state for at least three of the five years preceding their entry to an approved third level course.

There are no plans to extend the eligibility conditions of the free fees initiative to cover students attending third level institutions in Northern Ireland. With regard to eligibility for financial assistance under the student maintenance grant schemes, which are administered by the local authorities and the VECs on behalf of my Department, the position is that students who are entering approved full-time courses for the first time are eligible for grants where they satisfy the relevant conditions as to residence, means, nationality and previous academic attainment. An approved course for the purpose of the third level maintenance grant schemes means a full-time undergraduate course of not less two years' duration and a full-time postgraduate course of not less than one year's duration pursued in an approved third level institution.

Applications for grant assistance under the student support schemes are submitted to the local authority or the VEC, depending on the type of course in question. Applicants undertaking undergraduate degree and postgraduate courses apply to their local authorities while those pursuing diploma-certificate and PLC courses apply to their relevant VEC. The third level student support schemes extend to undergraduate study in Ireland and the EU and postgraduate study in Ireland, including Northern Ireland. Any extension of the current arrangements to provide for students pursuing postgraduate courses outside the island of Ireland could only be considered in the light of available resources and other competing demands within the education sector. There are no plans to expand the provisions in the grant schemes with regard to study abroad.

Section 473A of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 provides tax relief at the standard rate of tax for tuition fees paid in respect of approved courses at approved colleges of higher education, including certain approved undergraduate and postgraduate courses in EU member states and postgraduate courses in most EU countries. Tax relief at undergraduate level extends to approved full and part-time courses in both private and publicly funded third level colleges in the State and any other EU member state and approved full-time or part-time courses operated by colleges in any EU member state providing distance education in the State. Tax relief on tuition fees is claimed directly from the tax office, using an IT 31 form. Details of approved colleges and courses are also available on Revenue's Internet site. Approved undergraduate courses must be of at least two years duration and both the college and the course must satisfy the codes of standards as laid down by the Minister for Education and Science with the consent of the Minister for Finance.

I thank the Senator for allowing me the opportunity to outline the position.

Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister of State bring to the attention of the Minister the fact that the only reason I am raising the issue again within six weeks of having raised it is that the situation is now even more dire? The indications are that the fees will be increased. While I welcome the information on tax relief, some parents of students are not in the tax bracket. Therefore, the problem is that it is the poorest who are being denied easy access to their local third level institutions. I accept there are agreements under the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement, but in the context of the review taking place under the stewardship of Minister Empey, will the Minister of State engage in formal interaction with him to point out that hardship is being caused and that it is not being alleviated because colleges are choosing not to support students from the Republic of Ireland? This has resulted in the lack of numbers able to access these universities. I urge the Minister of State to convey the message to the Department of Education and Science that I would not have raised this issue if it was not more serious now than it was six weeks ago.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Senator. In all contexts, thankfully, mobility across the Border has increased in the past few years. Unfortunately, arguments about issues like this undermine the need for the Border, but it is part of our history and we must accept it. The Senator has identified a serious problem to which we must try to find a solution. I undertake to bring her concerns to the attention of the Minister again.