Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, statements on the important role of volunteering in Irish society, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude not later than 3 p.m., with spokespersons having 12 minutes and all other Senators seven minutes, and on which Senators may share time by agreement of the House, and the Minister to be called upon ten minutes from the end of the debate for concluding comments and to take questions from spokespersons or group leaders.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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In last year's Budget Statement, the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Cowen, stated:

The fundamentals of our economy are still good — a point often lost by some. . . . Overall economic and budgetary parameters . . . will ensure that Ireland maintains a sound and sensible fiscal policy, fully in line with the provisions of the EU's Stability and Growth Pact.

I am sure the current Minister for Finance is wondering today what country the Taoiseach was speaking about last year. Public finances are in a shambles and we are facing one of the most difficult budgets the country will ever have. It emerged last week that the Government spent more than €14 million of taxpayers' money on hiring private firms to administer the scheme to reimburse those affected by illegal nursing home charges. This is the type of waste that has been ongoing in this Government and Fianna Fáil Governments over the last ten years. This type of waste will have to be cut out today. We will support the cutting out of waste such as this, but it should have been done over the last ten years.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business to ensure that No. 23 on the Order Paper, the Civil Liability (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2008, be dealt with. In addition, I ask the Leader when the credit institutions scheme will be put before us. We spent some time discussing the banks. The urgency of it was stressed a number of weeks ago, but we still have not seen the scheme.

David Norris (Independent)
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I wish the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, well on this critical day in his career and in the life of the country. This is not a time for smart-ass, partisan politicking. The circumstances are far too serious. We have had the largest stock-market crash since 1929 and we are probably heading into a slump. This has been triggered by the criminal greed and irresponsibility of the Bush-Cheney Administration. It is significant that the $700 billion that will be necessary to plug the hole in the banks is precisely the amount the Iraq war adventure has cost. We should take note of the fact that the so-called war on terror was used to mask a massive attack on civil liberties and human rights. I hope this economic crisis will not be used in a similar manner to mask an attack on the most vulnerable sections of our society. These are the people who need to be protected most.

I wish to flag concern — it is appropriate that it would come from this House — at reports from yesterday's newspapers that in the justice area a series of agencies are to be merged, including the National Disability Authority, which is in the middle of preparing the national disability strategy. This is not the time to be fiddling with it. Also included are the Equality Tribunal and the Equality Authority. In the past the Government has overridden that authority's recommendations and so it must not be further weakened. Also included is the Irish Human Rights Commission, which was established statutorily. It is required to be an exact parallel to that existing north of the Border. This should not be tampered with. It is also proposed to assume the Combat Poverty Agency into the Department of Social and Family Affairs' office for social inclusion. This will simply make it an arm of Government and will prevent it from independent research and reporting and being positively critical of Government policy.

We in this House must play a role in safeguarding the rights and welfare of the most vulnerable people in our society. In the past year I have regularly raised the issue of the increase in the number of home repossessions of people getting into difficulty. This increase is gathering speed. The courts had a series of repossession orders on which the judges have commented. It is significant that now every institution, including all the financial institutions that are being baled out, is applying for repossession. This is not tolerable. I agree with Senator Obama in the United States who called for a moratorium on repossessions for three months, which we also need in this country. I am calling today for precisely that kind of moratorium.

We are in the middle of a global situation. However, we have played our own role through incompetence and lack of supervision. I heard this morning that in the health service, for every front-line person engaged, there have been two managers. That is madness. We played our own provincial role in this economic tragedy and it seems as if the Executive's snout was rarely raised from a trough that was regularly replenished with luxurious swill at the expense of the taxpayer. That must also stop. We all need to buckle down in this critical situation. The most important thing we can do is to support any reasonable Government policy in this difficult time, but in so doing we must ensure nothing is contained therein that constitutes an attack on the most vulnerable, marginalised and poor.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Cummins on a point of order to clarify something he said earlier.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I should have referred to No. 23 on the Order Paper and not No. 22.

Alex White (Labour)
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There is a general air of expectation about the House in respect of the budget announcements this afternoon. I do not know whether this morning's unrelenting rain is a signal of what we can expect——

David Norris (Independent)
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The Government might abolish Met Éireann.

Alex White (Labour)
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——or at least a harbinger of what is to come. It certainly sets the mood for what we have been told to expect. We will see. I understand it is planned to have a debate on the budget in this House tomorrow. I hope that in the coming days and weeks, not just in one debate, we do not just see the budget as a bookkeeping measure to balance the books. I hope the Minister also does not see it as such. The Government needs to do that in the initial sense and ensure what it proposes to spend is matched by the income and funds it has. It presents a much bigger opportunity to those in these Houses to consider what our priorities should be in the present economic climate. I really hope this House can have that kind of wider debate in coming days and months.

Other parliaments' upper houses have shown that they can contribute to a very considerable extent to that kind of wider debate and really scrutinise their governments. In that context, I am delighted with last night's decision by the House of Lords to reject the British Government's proposal to introduce an extension to the period during which suspects may be held to 42 days. That was an independent move and I hope we, as Members of this House and Parliament, can show our independence in how we approach the debate on the budget in the coming months.

In an article in today's The Irish Times, Fintan O'Toole makes the compelling point that one can plan to spend less in the context of economic difficulties and cutbacks and, in some circumstances, achieve more. The example he cites is child care, an issue the House has debated and should revisit. The reasonable and costed proposals of the National Economic and Social Forum, which were supported by my party, set out a universal system of early child care, which would cost less than the combination of funds currently dedicated to child care through the early child care supplement and the subvention scheme. Senator Mary White and others have raised this issue in the past. We could be innovative and adopt a child care system that would require less investment while achieving something real and substantial for our children. We need to bring such thinking to bear on the budget in the coming days. I hope we will do that and discharge our responsibility as a Parliament in doing so.

I join with Senator Cummins in asking the Leader to confirm in respect of the banking crisis the scheme and regulations to be introduced. The Minister has promised the scheme will be laid before the Houses. Consensus among economic commentators has increased in recent days that the question of capitalisation of banks cannot be avoided in the context of Irish banks because it is being addressed internationally. Will that form part of the scheme because it does not seem it could as currently indicated? When will we have the debate on the scheme?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I join with those who have extended best wishes to the Minister for Finance. Come the moment, come the man. No man is better equipped politically to deal with the situation and I wish him well with the budget.

Will the Leader arrange a debate on the Army's presence in Chad? An Post cannot deliver Christmas supplies from their families to the troops in Chad because there is no infrastructure there. PDFORRA has asked the Army to ensure supplies are delivered to the troops on the ground. I am confident Lieutenant General Dermot Earley, Chief of Staff of the Army, will ensure our troops are provided with Christmas gifts from their families and vice versa. We must give support to these troops who are in a dangerous situation in Chad and I hope the Leader will arrange a debate on the future of the mission there, which is set to conclude in March but which could be extended. I wish our troops every success and I hope the budget will not adversely affect them or the barracks at home.

I also hope the budget will ensure that where contracts have been signed and sites acquired under the decentralisation programme, the projects will proceed because they are important for the development of the regions.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator can raise that during the budget debate tomorrow.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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For instance, a contract has been signed for a site in Roscommon but planning permission has not been granted. A total of 83 staff are working in conditions, which would be improved if they were housed in new buildings. It is economically beneficial to transfer people from the city to the country.

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I second the amendment to the Order of Business.

I refer to the Army barracks issue. Serious rumours circulated last weekend about the closure of barracks in the Longford-Westmeath area. Attention was paid to the closure of the barracks in Longford. I will formally warn the Government that closing the barracks in Longford town on the grounds of collecting money from the sale of real estate, the price of which is at an all-time low, would be a foolhardy and fire brigade action. Will the Minister for Defence appear in the House to discuss his proposals on barracks and their closure? The Mullingar and Longford economies would be severely affected were their barracks to be downgraded or closed. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister to discuss this serious issue? Athlone's economy depends entirely on its Army barracks.

I join Senator Leyden in asking that the State intervene and look after soldiers in Chad this Christmas.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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I join speakers in wishing the Minister for Finance well today. There is no doubt but that he has a major task in hand. We are prepared for it, given our debates and the media coverage. The Minister has the mettle to handle the matter, as he proved through his intervention in guaranteeing the financial institutions. The House played a significant role in that respect and won many kudos, not that we were looking for such, thanks to our all-night session in response to an urgent requirement.

I take a certain amount of solace and guidance from the Minister's statement to the effect that we should not be consumed by fear. There is no doubt that the budget will be difficult in its own right, but I have been especially impressed in recent weeks by the tone of the media coverage. Members of the media have been showing a realistic approach in responding to this crisis, which they well know is not just a domestic crisis. We are in a competitive field and feel the wind of what is occurring elsewhere in the world.

I take Senator Norris's point, which I have raised previously, that we must look after the most vulnerable members of society. To do so, the rest of us must feel some pain. If we do not, it will be most unfair because many of the people in question have not benefited from the Celtic tiger to the same extent as many of the rest of us.

If we take the media's cue and work in a united fashion to take responsibility in a non-partisan way, we can get out of this problem relatively quickly. No one can predict how long it will take and none of us will prejudge today's budget, but we have an inkling of certain cuts and savings thanks to some of the available information. The message we seem to be getting is that the most vulnerable will be protected. Only one Department will not be interfered with, namely, the Department of Social and Family Affairs, which provides help to people who need it.

We should not be contemplating a fire brigade action. We must think long-term. We must maintain confidence in business, tourism and the construction industry. We all have an obligation to act positively in this respect.

Phil Prendergast (Labour)
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Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Health and Children to attend the House to discuss current medical services, in particular, community medical services and the insurance of independent midwives? Such a debate would be timely now rather than later.

Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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Today is a watershed for the country. A new realism is striking home and we will see that reflected in the budget to be announced later today. It is a watershed financially and socially. All public representatives agree that there is a new climate that is tough and difficult. I refer to middle Ireland as those with good working jobs who are now under pressure and under threat. They have real concerns as to the viability of their futures in their homes and families.

We discussed the Housing Bill last week. Housing policies must be adapted and revised on a constant basis to respond to the new climate. With house repossessions on the increase, other Senators have referred to concerns regarding good jobs being lost. People are concerned about how they will retain their houses and keep them viable as family units. We must all respond to that challenge. I include all Government agencies and local authorities, which have traditional ways and methods of dealing with their housing obligations to people. They must revise their policies and I ask the Leader to make provision for a debate on this.

For example, where planning permission is granted for a rural house there is a condition whereby a family must live in the house for seven years. With the change in climate, I know of families who have lost jobs and may intend to emigrate. This clause is seriously restricting them in selling their house or moving on. Real issues affect real families and housing agencies must respond to this. I ask the Leader to bring these issues to the attention of the Minister. We will listen with interest to what budgetary measures will be taken but we must all respond, including Government agencies.

Paul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I support what was said by Senator Coffey regarding a debate on housing and planning. I noted with satisfaction last week the report from the EU indicating that the rule on local use, only applied by some local authorities, may be deemed illegal. This would be of great advantage to those of us who advocate the entitlement to build and live in rural Ireland. I look forward to the debate and a response from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley. If the Minister had his way, the people of this country would live in single, high-rise apartment blocks. That is the policy of his party and I do not want it to have an impact on planning guidelines across the country. We urgently need a debate on planning with a view to providing strong support for rural people's entitlement to live in their communities.

I repeat the question I asked last week and perhaps the Leader will avail of the opportunity to answer it on this occasion. The long-awaited Bill containing the fair deal proposal was published by the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. We can debate the pros and cons of it but we have awaited the legislation, as thousands of people are awaiting its implementation. The political story from the other House is that the Bill will not be debated for months. Given how this House has proved its political worth in recent weeks, can the Leader ask the Minister to reprint the Bill as a Seanad Bill to get the debate under way in this House before Christmas? It is the ideal House to debate such contentious, interesting and futuristic legislation. We could consider it in great detail, giving it the type of debate it would not get in the other House. I ask the Leader to show the worth of this House by requesting that the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill be debated before Christmas because it requires serious consideration and a lengthy debate. Seanad Éireann is the ideal place to get the work done.

Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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It is not often I defend the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, but it is unfair to criticise him on the issue of one-off housing in rural areas. Many of us come from rural areas and are aware of the pressures young families face in trying to get planning permission for one-off homes. Some parts of Ireland are suffering from rural depopulation. As a result shops are closing down and children are not enrolling in schools. There are other parts of rural Ireland, however, that are under pressure from urbanisation. Many parts of my own County Meath, and County Kildare suffer because too many houses are being built in the countryside. It is very important that we adopt a sensible rather than a populist approach. I would welcome a debate on this issue but it is fair to look at it intelligently and not merely to assume that it is all right to give carte blanche planning permission for rural housing.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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This is budget day and I believe the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, has very important decisions to make. Our economy is in deep financial crisis due to collusion between big developers and the banks, supported by the Government, all for their own benefit. These people will now be allowed write off their own losses at the taxpayers' expense and at the expense of PAYE workers and young families who now face 100% plus mortgages and 40-year life commitments. These are the victims of reckless practice by company directors and reckless lending by banks. Although hard to say, it must be pointed out that Government greed and irresponsibility have allowed this.

What will the Minister for Finance do today for the committed mortgage holder who is now in difficulty and who, as Senator Coffey said, is now facing repossession of his or her home? We saw this happening in the High Court yesterday. This is a very serious situation and it is not the first time it has happened. New buyers need help and we will help them by letting the market fall. It is the committed mortgage holder, however, who needs assistance.

We should spare a thought today for the Health Service Executive and hope it will start to listen and to learn. We heard today that the HSE issued a press release noting that its contract with pharmacists was illegally breached. Now they will be reimbursed. When will the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, and the HSE start to listen and learn? Time and money have been wasted.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Questions should be addressed to the Leader.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I will finish the point. We are expecting——

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We are on the Order of Business and questions should be addressed to the Leader.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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——costs of €1million at the High Court but the patient has still not saved any money.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I concur with some comments made in regard to planning and development. I ask the Leader if he might arrange a debate on that topic reasonably soon because it is important. In the changed economic circumstances in which we find ourselves it is important to re-focus on some of the issues that have evolved over a number of years. At the time it was introduced, Part V of the Planning and Development Act was necessary because of the escalating price of houses. Whether it is still justified in the current climate is something to be examined. There are issues such as rural housing development, mentioned by Senator Hannigan, which also deserve scrutiny.

There are questions concerning An Bord Pleanála. In recent years a tendency has emerged for large businesses and retailers to use An Bord Pleanála in order to obstruct development for their own competitive gain and protection. That must be examined. It always struck me that if we require our planning authorities, the county and city councils, to operate within time limits a similar constraint should operate with An Bord Pleanála. People should be entitled to get a decision within a reasonable amount of time. I know it is difficult but there should be some way of examining whether if vexatious and wrongly motivated objections can be sidelined at an early stage within the process.

There was some comment on the budget and we must all await the outcome. I commend what has been said by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, and also by some of the leading Opposition spokespersons, of whom I single out Deputies Richard Bruton and Ruairí Quinn. Deputy Quinn was particularly good on radio the other day. Politicians must now act in the national interest rather than in parochial, sectional or party interests. This country and many other countries face a challenge. Only a collective, unified approach can successfully overcome this challenge and build on the gains of the past ten years.

Geraldine Feeney (Fianna Fail)
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I, too, extend good wishes to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan. Driving up to Dublin this morning, I thought the grey, dark, terrible weather is probably in keeping with what will take place in the Other House this afternoon. As other speakers noted, people across the spectrum will feel pain as a result of the budget. I hope, however, that the most vulnerable will feel less pain than those at the top end of society.

I support Senator Prendergast's call for a debate on home births and independent domiciliary midwives. I concur with the Senator that such a debate is long overdue. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, before the House on another day to debate the issue of obesity and eating disorders such as anorexia.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Cummins, Norris, Alex White, Leyden, McFadden, Ó Murchú, Coffey, Bradford, Healy-Eames, Walsh and Feeney expressed diverse views on the budget. I offer the best wishes of the House to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, on his first budget. The Minister is a man of great ability, as Senators will have noted during his appearances before the House, including his contributions on the debate marking the 70th anniversary of the Constitution and legislation on the banking issue which was discussed during an all-night session. All those present a fortnight ago for the latter debate admired his great ability.

Like Senator Leyden and the Cathaoirleach, I have long been associated with the Minister's family, having canvassed with both his father and grandfather over the past 40 years. The Lenihan family has for decades shown great dedication to the betterment of society, none more so than the former Deputy Leader of the House, Deputy Mary O'Rourke, who has been my colleague for many years. The Deputy and I have always done our best to serve the interests of our country, party and county.

Today is a momentous occasion for the Minister for Finance and I wish him well on behalf of the House. We will support him in every way possible as he sets out to address the difficulties currently being experienced worldwide. We must also make some domestic corrections arising from changes in recent times. I hope the budget will lay the foundation stone for part three of the Celtic tiger.

For the past ten years, Ireland's growth rate has averaged an unbelievable 7%. The country has been held up to the ten new member states of the European Union as a shining example of what a nation can achieve in 20 years from humble origins. This has been done under all parties in Government.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Leader's party shot the Celtic tiger.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I am giving a little praise to the Deputy's party because I am in a generous mood.

Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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I am glad someone is in a generous mood today.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Opposition and all parties in both Houses for their support in the national interest.

David Norris (Independent)
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Does that include the Independents?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I include the Independents. It is refreshing to see Senator Norris in his new role. I wish him well and hope it will last for some time.

David Norris (Independent)
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I could get used to it.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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As Senators will be aware, from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m. tomorrow, Fianna Fáil Private Members' time will be devoted to statements on the budget. I also intend to propose on the Order of Business on Thursday morning that the House take the legislation, whether schemes or regulations, required to address the issue of the banks on Friday at 10 a.m. I thank the other leaders for their support and understanding on this matter.

I agree with the amendment to the Order of Business regarding No. 23, Civil Liability (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2008 — First Stage, proposed by Senator Cummins.

Senators Leyden and McFadden expressed concerns regarding Army personnel. Senator Leyden was concerned to ensure the Army personnel in Chad would have supplies delivered for the troops on the ground in time for Christmas. I extend our best wishes to the Chief of Staff, Dermot Earley, whom we all have admired down through the years and who has been such a wonderful ambassador for the Army. Regarding the sentiments expressed by Senator McFadden about the closure of Army barracks, we must wait and see what is in the budget. I support her sentiments.

Regarding Senator Leyden's concern about decentralisation, I hope, as everyone else does, that projects, in respect of which sites have been purchased, planning permissions granted and tender documents agreed, will be allowed to proceed, given that substantial allocations of staff expect such decentralisation to take place and are looking forward to returning to work in the place of their birth. It would be a huge bonus to all the areas proposed that this would be allowed happen. It is a godsend that the Prison Service offices are up and running in Longford town. I look forward to the day that Roscommon, Mullingar, Portlaoise and those areas in the midlands — which so badly need it now more than at any other time — will get their fair share of investment and fair return from Government employment.

Senators Prendergast and Feeney called for the Minister to come to the House for a debate on independent midwifery and home births. As one who is privileged to have been born at home, I fully support this request and will arrange for such a debate.

Senators Coffey, Bradford, Hannigan and Walsh called for a debate on housing, planning, rural development and everything pertaining to the challenge facing us all in the 21st century. The call for this debate is timely and I will arrange for such a debate to take place in the next three or four weeks.

Senator Bradford suggested that the Minister, Deputy Harney, allow the Fair Deal proposal, the nursing home Bill, to be published as a Seanad Bill in the interest of assisting her, the Government and the Department to process it quickly. I will bring that proposal to the attention of the Minister to establish if that can be done. It is a worthwhile and sensible proposal and I will do everything I can to have that Bill initiated in the Seanad.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Cummins proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, that No. 23 be taken today. The Leader of the House indicated his approval of the amendment. Is the amendment agreed? Agreed.