Seanad debates
Wednesday, 24 October 2007
Order of Business (Resumed)
3:00 pm
David Norris (Independent)
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I also welcome the fact that Gerry Adams has condemned the outrage that took place and indicated that members of the nationalist community should give evidence to the Police Service of Northern Ireland. I strongly agree with Senator Harris that this awful, brutal incident took place within the context of Republicanism, about which there is no doubt. The chilling words, "Now you know who is in charge here," brought to mind that very remarkable programme, "The Killings at Coolacrease", for which I pay tribute to RTE. It was broadcast last night and Senator Harris played a prominent and distinguished part in it. He was splendidly forthright, decent and honest. I was very ashamed by some of the things that were said. There was a horrible and nasty, small minded bestial attempt to smear retrospectively the Pearson family, which I deplore.
David Norris (Independent)
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To hear a young historian say the mistake was that they did not finish them off is repulsive in the extreme. I could hardly believe what I was hearing. The ethos that operated in 1921 in Offaly is the same ethos that has operated in the Border counties, and it must be wiped out.
However, I do not share Senator Harris's optimism about the success of the Italian police with the Mafia. It has not happened, although I wish it would. The Mafia is not the only group. There is also the Camorra and the other group with the unpronounceable name whose tentacles have reached into Berlin. They are very powerful and, like the IRA, they have not gone away. I wish they had.
It was also said in that programme that the Pearson girls were very aggressive. Is that really the case? When 32 armed and dangerous louts break in, having shot their two brothers——
David Norris (Independent)
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—— and let them bleed to death, why do we describe them as aggressive? Let us have a bit of reality.
I agree that the episode should be looked at in the context of the Border and I listened to what Senator O'Toole said about passports. We already have a passport situation. The real Government of Ireland — I speak of Michael O'Leary and Ryanair — makes us produce our passports at the airport, so why should the British not do it? It will certainly put the cat among the Unionist pigeons. They will discover how united their kingdom is at the end of the day.
I want to raise the question of the civil registration and domestic partnership Bill which I had hoped to introduce, but for technical reasons this will not happen until at least after Christmas. I would welcome it if the Government introduced the Bill in its own time because the situation is becoming urgent. I have a file of e-mails from people, including one from an Irish citizen who points out that last April the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform transposed the free movement directive into Irish law. This means that an EU citizen from outside Ireland can freely bring his or her partner, of the same or opposite sex, into the country but an Irish citizen resident here has no such right. There is this extraordinary anomaly and we are lagging behind. We discussed it in the previous Seanad. I hope there will be the same consensus in both Houses. There is time for us to bite the bullet on this issue and I look forward to the Leader indicating whether he will allow Government time for it. If not, I will have to introduce it after Christmas.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Leader arrange for an urgent debate on the proposed Lisbon European Union reform treaty which was finalised by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs last week, with the assistance of the Minister of State, Deputy Roche? It was done very successfully and I commend the Government on how it handled the negotiations. Ireland is the only country of the 27 members of the EU that will have a referendum on this issue. It is important that we have a detailed debate, that people know the facts about the negotiations and that the reform treaty will be circulated to every citizen in the State. Ireland is the focus of attention in Europe because our decision will decide whether the reform treaty will be implemented. All parties have a major responsibility to ensure we have a thorough debate on the issue.
I commend the Taoiseach on ensuring we excluded certain aspects of the treaty and obtained derogations. The fact that he is the longest serving leader in Europe proves the point that he is now a senior figure. He has brought about a well negotiated reform treaty which I fully support. I ask the Leader to arrange for the Minister of State to come to the House and explain the treaty. We can all act to ensure it is implemented. We will not have a second bite at the cherry this time and it will not be like the Nice treaty. We cannot go back every time to see if the people will change their minds.
I congratulate Senator Boyle on becoming chairperson of the Green Party. It is appropriate to compliment Members who have achieved success, particularly, as in this case, by a narrow majority against candidates from the other House. I hope another Member will become leader of another party in the near future——
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——and the Seanad will play an important role in this regard.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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As for the issue I wished to raise on the Adjournment in respect of Bord Gáis, I am aware this matter pertains to the regulator. The Leader should ask the Minister to raise with the regulator the issue regarding the connection to the network of Moate, County Westmeath. Bord Gáis was supposed to connect the towns of Moate, Kilbeggan, Kinnegad and Edenderry this year. However, due to the unfortunate mishap of a fire in Glanbia in Edenderry, the towns in question have been moved to the third phase. This is completely unacceptable as Moate and the other midlands towns were supposed to have been connected to the network this year. While all these populated areas want to make progress, they are being pushed back further. The Leader should intervene by speaking to the Minister, who could in turn speak to the Commission for Energy Regulation to try to make progress regarding the connection of these towns, which had been promised such a connection in 2007.
John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the report published yesterday by the constituency commission. As Members are probably aware, 75% of the submissions made to the commission came from County Leitrim. They came from people across the political spectrum who sought the county's location within one constituency or other. The net result of the constituency commission's decision published yesterday is that were a candidate to secure every vote cast in either section of Leitrim, he or she would have only 0.75 of a quota. This comes close to disenfranchising the people of County Leitrim, who are not now in a position to elect a Deputy of any political persuasion.
This is unsatisfactory and I call on the Leader to ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to attend the House to explain the reason the constituency commission did not take cognisance of the submissions made to it from across the political spectrum. Several other configurations could have been put in place that would have allowed Leitrim to remain as a single entity within one constituency. Obviously, however, this constitutes another attack on the weakest part of the country. I demand that the Leader ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to come before the House to discuss this issue before the publication of any legislation.
I will call on the Government to reject this report. Members will have noted how part of south Offaly has been thrown into Tipperary North and west Limerick has been put into Kerry North. Every area in the country has been facilitated except for its weakest region and I appeal to the Leader to ensure the Minister comes before the House to discuss this matter. The constituency commission report should be rejected across the political spectrum as the submissions it received demonstrated the depth of feeling regarding what has been proposed.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I dtús báire, ba mhaith liom cuir le formhór an méid atá ráite sa Teach mar gheall ar na dúnmharaithe uafásacha a tharla taobh istigh de cúpla lá. Níl dabht ar bith ach go gcaithfimid uilig sa Teach seo cuir in éadan na heachtraí coiriúla éagsúla. Caithfidh iad siúd a bhfuil eolas acu dul go dtí na údaráis cuí chun an eolas sin a nochtadh. Tá dualgas orainn mar pholaiteoirí, agus go háirithe ar an Rialtas, polasaithe cuimsitheacha a thabhairt isteach chun cuidiú le pobail aghaidh a thabhairt ar an fhadhb seo. Labhair mé sa Teach seo an tseachtain seo caite mar gheall ar polasaí amháin — ba cheart dúinn 4,000 gardaí sa bhreis a chuir ar na sráideanna chun cuidiú le pobail deireadh a chuir leis na eachtraí coiriúla seo atá ag tarlú.
I also wish to raise the student support Bill that was promised by the Minister for Education and Science for early 2007. She made this promise to students last year, as well as prior to the general election. A commitment was also given in a reply to a parliamentary question from a Sinn Féin Deputy. However, the student support Bill has not emerged. As many Members are aware, the USI organised a protest at the gates of Leinster House yesterday, which I had the opportunity to address. The view of the students and my party is that it is essential the student support Bill is published as quickly as possible. However, it is just as important that there is proper consultation with the USI on what is to be included in the Bill. Some local authorities and VECs are holding back grants for various reasons, placing students in financial difficulties and forcing some of them to drop out of college because their grants are not forthcoming.
I wish to pick up on a point made by the deputy leader, Senator Dan Boyle, about the fact that Polish people in Ireland were able to cast their votes in the recent election. Senator Boyle suggested that Irish citizens abroad should be allowed to vote in presidential elections, which I hope is a new direction being taken by the Government. I ask the deputy leader and the Leader to bring this issue to the attention of the Taoiseach. A first step might be to allow Irish citizens not abroad but in this country to vote for the Head of State. Sinn Féin has been making this proposal for many years. If we are seeing a change in direction by the Government, it will be welcomed by Irish citizens north of the Border.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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It was with interest that I listened to a number of comments on the issue of crime and gangland activity. I welcome the comments which suggested that we should be tough on crime. It is important that we hold together and show unanimity in our desire to address this problem. Equally, we must show our allegiance and solidarity with the agencies of the State which are doing tremendous work in the fight against crime. I wish the incoming Garda Commissioner, Fachtna Murphy, every success in his position. I offer a word of caution to Senator Regan, who seemed to criticise the detection rates of our tremendous Garda force. We should tread cautiously when we start cherry-picking. Everybody does a great job and we should give them our support.
Next Friday, 26 October, is Telethon day. I wish to take this opportunity to encourage everybody to participate in this event and to congratulate all those involved. The People in Need Trust has given out more than €35 million in grants to groups throughout the country.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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It is relevant, a Chathaoirligh, because the People in Need Trust was established in May 1988 with the purpose of raising and distributing money——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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It is not relevant. I ask the Senator to finish.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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The events beyond this month's Telethon——
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The problem is the Telethon now, is it?
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to arrange for RTE and the People in Need Trust to meet an appropriate committee of these Houses to discuss the future of the Telethon, particularly in light of the funds raised and the good use to which they are being put.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for one of the joint committees.
The time allotted to the Order of Business has nearly expired. I indicated to Senator Healy-Eames that I would allow her to speak because I had allowed a few Members to speak who had missed out last Thursday, which pushed her back down the line. I apologise to the others who wished to speak.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I am concerned about the two accounts of rogue solicitors that have come to light in the last few days. This is a very serious issue. These solicitors have been abusing clients' accounts to fund property deals for themselves and for personal gain. I ask the Leader to check with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform whether new legislation is needed to protect homeowners and their homes from occurrences such as these.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Fitzgerald, O'Donovan, O'Toole, Boyle, Regan, Harris and Norris expressed their horror at the two brutal murders, one in a taxi and one in a barn, that took place in recent days. Who would ever have thought a few years ago that we would be seeing Ireland in the position it is in today? The challenge of crime, and everything that goes with it, is a serious one for us democratic legislators. I stated here a couple of weeks ago that the fear is gone out of the law.
I listened attentively to what Senator Harris had to say about 30 day detention. I will bring these strong views to the Minister and I will afford time for this issue to be discussed in the House in the next few weeks. It is a serious challenge to law and order. I know all parties in the House stand shoulder to shoulder in support of anything we can do by way of a new initiative, and any investment that needs to be made by the Government should be supported. When other such challenges were laid down previously they were met. It must be made known to those involved that the fear will be put back into the law and if sentences need to be increased, from 25 to 30, 40 or 50 years, where people go to prison and stay there without one day's remission, then let that be so. That is the challenge facing us as legislators.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I will allow time for such a debate and I ask Senators to prepare their submissions so that we can have a meaningful open-ended debate with the Minister present in the next few weeks.
Senators O'Toole and Hannigan expressed strong views on the position on passports under the Good Friday Agreement and the Government's policy in this regard. I will also allow time for a debate on this matter.
Senators Hannigan and Keaveney expressed strong concerns about the ESRI. I wish to inform Senators that the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, will be in the House tomorrow. Many Senators have been expressing concern about various articles written in publications from time to time regarding the upcoming budget. Tomorrow will provide an opportunity with the Minister present for Senators who have expressed their concerns on the Order of Business and I look forward to hearing the concerns expressed aired tomorrow. We will allow at least three hours for the debate.
Any fair-minded person looking back on Ireland over the past ten to 15 years would have to say we have achieved much and there is much more on which we can build. I would not be as pessimistic as the sentiments expressed in many of the articles we read in the newspapers today, and most Senators probably agree with me.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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This has been a model economy for the past ten years. Average annual growth rates have been at 7.25%. No other country has had such growth.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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We should give ourselves a pat on the back from time to time. There should be a half-hour good news slot in the Seanad and in the Dáil, and in all arms of the media, every day. We are a resilient people. Despite all the negativity we are still achieving much.
Senators McCarthy and Ellis called for a debate on the constituencies. The hearts of everyone in the House go out to Senator Ellis and the people of Leitrim who, following the commission's report yesterday, have practically no chance of ever electing a Deputy. I will allow a half-day debate on this issue in the House with the Minister present and I will pass on Senator Ellis's strong view that no legislation should be contemplated without the views of both Houses on what has happened being taken into account.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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In my constituency of Meath West, I was one of the few who, with Senator Ellis, was disenfranchised in that we could not vote for ourselves, nor could our families or the people of the parish. When is the right time to do the right thing? The county of Meath has been split in three parts. What is the logic in being told the county boundary is sacrosanct? It is time to examine this matter and to put together the figures when we have clear heads.
The power of the parish and the county is visible in Croke Park, with which the Cathaoirleach is familiar. Without those people we would not be here today. We should not be afraid to stand up for the people we represent who may ask us after mass on a Sunday why we let the Government do this to them. It is the people who are being disenfranchised, not the Members of the Oireachtas. We are birds of passage.
Each area is entitled to fair representation. I do not speak of the larger towns where people there have always had a bigger slice of the Exchequer cake than people in rural areas. I could get very emotional about this if I wanted to.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Donovan called for a commonsense proposal on road safety. I suggest the committee in charge of the issue should promote the use of protective armbands and other protective clothing. With all that is being done by various agencies to make roads safer, surely it is possible to find someone to sponsor 70,000 armbands or however many are needed.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is due to launch an initiative of the Road Safety Authority tomorrow. I welcome Senator O'Donovan's proposal.
Senator Kelly called on the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism to attend the House to discuss his portfolio. The Senator was most knowledgeable about the various areas to which he referred in his address to the House. I will have no difficulty in providing time for such a debate.
Senators Keaveney and Doherty called for a debate on education. A motion on lifelong learning will be discussed in the House later today and Members will have an opportunity to contribute to that debate. However, I will have no difficulty in providing time at a later date for a debate on education with the Minister for Education and Science.
I will make inquiries for Senator Norris about the current status of his Bill. Senator Leyden called for a debate on the European reform treaty. I will have no difficulty in inviting the Minister of State, Deputy Roche, to attend a debate in the House on this matter. I join in sending best wishes and congratulations to the deputy leader of the House, Deputy Boyle, on becoming chairman of his party.
Senator McFadden called on me to make inquiries of the regulator regarding the connection of Moate, Kinnegad, possibly Rochfortbridge, Tyrellspass and Milltownpass to Bord Gáis's network. They are all located on a line in the constituency which the Senator and I are honoured to represent. I will make inquiries on that matter on the conclusion of the Order of Business and I will revert to the Senator.
Senator Healy Eames expressed her disappointment about the serious matters that have taken place recently involving solicitors and called for a debate on same. People have placed their trust in the legal profession. Most solicitors have been lifelong friends to thousands of families through the years. However, when something exceptional happens in this regard and trust is damaged, I have no difficulty in allocating time for a debate.